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  1. #1
    Senior Member Leorgathar's Avatar
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    I saw it last Friday
    Overall I found it quite enjoyable, which is what I at least wanted from it, so I'm relieved in that.
    I'll first say that I can see what the filmmakers tried to do, and in some ways they succeed. The photorealism is just incredible, that first scene with the mouse did well in convincing my brain that I wasn't looking at animation (that along with the VR tech they used to film like they do in a live action movie). So yeah, I know it bugs that media calls it "live action", but whether we like it or not, that just means they succeeded, and that's amazing.

    I would have forgiven the movie's existence for that, had it not been because of the serious lack of expressions in characters, which only made some scenes feel very awkward and the characters boring. There was no connection between voice actors and animations, and thus I didn't connect with them. Jon Favreau said that they wanted to express emotion through body language instead of face expressions, but I don't think they did that right either. Characters feel stiff at times, just look at Scar and Simbas' interaction after Mufasa's death, or Simba and Nala's argument, or when Mufasa is talking to Simba after saving him from the hyenas (you're giving your son a heart-to-heart talk, look at him in the eyes!)

    I liked the change with the hyenas, especially Shenzi's leadership role. They're less stupid and more threatening, but they're still funny (Azizi and Kamari were great xD). I missed the silliness, but I think the change works much better in this style. Timon and Pumbaa were pretty funny too, and the whole talk about them not seeing life as a circle but as a line was an interesting addition. But I still prefer the original voices, of course. In the case of Zazu it's the other way around, John Oliver was perfect for the role, and I really liked him x)

    It was implied in Scar's introduction that he and Mufasa had fought before ("I wouldn't dream of challenging you... again"), which in turn kiiind of implied that it was Mufasa the one who gave Scar his scar, at least that's the vibe I got. Might be wrong, but it's open to that interpretation, I liked that.
    Scar and Sarabi's relationship was also an interesting change, ditching the idea of wanting Nala as his queen, as in the musical. It bugs me as a purist, but I guess it works better with these new versions of the characters.

    The final act was great, I really liked the whole scene almost as much as in the original. In fact I liked that they finally answered how Simba managed to leap up the edge of Pride Rock and pounce Scar when he had him in his grasp: He bit Scar's face, and Scar pulled him up trying to free himself from it! I know it's just a tiny detail, but that had bothered me for many years, I'm really glad they corrected that ^^

    Ok now, for some heavy criticism...

    I think the movie has a problem with handling subtext. Like before the stampede, when Scar and Simba are in the gorge. In the original, Scar plays with Simba's feelings telling him everybody knows about the mess he got in with the hyenas ("lucky daddy was there to save you, huh?") and suggests him to practice his "little roar". That pissed off Simba, which is why he practiced it right there and then, and loud. That was pure Scar-style manipulation, Simba really felt his dad's death was his fault. In the new movie, however, Scar literally tells him that the gorge is where lions practice their roaring, and that he should practice his roar right there to make his dad proud. If I was that version of Simba I'd tell Scar "But you TOLD me to roar here!"

    Another example is when Nala reunites with Simba, which is the scene I have more problem with. In just over a minute, Simba and Nala recognize each other almost immediately, Timon and Pumbaa act like nothing happened, Nala tells Simba he should go back, that they miss each other, and we're supposed to believe they're suddenly in love. It not only feels rushed, it lacks expression, body language, and subtext. In the original, Nala doesn't recognize Simba at first, and she even doubts for a second it's him, and when she realizes it's him she jumps in joy. Her surprise there was much stronger, and consequently that reaction takes a downturn afterwards when she tells him "It's like you're back from the dead. You don't know how much this will mean to everyone... what it means to me", you can see a hint of sadness in her voice and in her expression, she really missed him, Simba comforts her and that's where they start falling in love. Also, when Simba tells Timon and Pumbaa to leave them alone, that gives them privacy and makes the scene feel more personal. The dialogues in the new one are pretty much the same, but without that quality acting from the first it just feels rushed and unconvincing. Not to mention of course how CYFTLT takes place during daytime, removing the romantic ambient the transition from twilight to night gives.
    And Nala saying goodbye to Simba disappointed and leaving him back in the jungle just like that? I don't know what to make of that, it just didn't feel like her xP

    Maybe I'm just nitpicking these things, I don't know if it would bother me less if there was no '94 original to compare it with, but there's certainly something off with these changes in pacing and acting.

    Anyway, getting that out of my system, I still think it's a good movie. At least I liked it more than Beauty and the Beast, and it still gives us fans something interesting to talk about.
    Besides, I'm very looking forward to see it in Spanish, since they brought both Carlos Rivera and Fela Dominguez, who played Simba and Nala in TLKoB! and interestingly they also brought in the original voice of Simba (Arturo Mercado), but he plays Rafiki this time around. I'm hoping I'll like the movie more on my second viewing, as it's sometimes the case.
    Last edited by Leorgathar; July 22nd, 2019 at 03:00 AM.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member nathalie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leorgathar View Post
    I would have forgiven the movie's existence for that, had it not been because of the serious lack of expressions in characters, which only made some scenes feel very awkward and the characters boring. There was no connection between voice actors and animations, and thus I didn't connect with them. Jon Favreau said that they wanted to express emotion through body language instead of face expressions, but I don't think they did that right either. Characters feel stiff at times, just look at Scar and Simbas' interaction after Mufasa's death, or Simba and Nala's argument, or when Mufasa is talking to Simba after saving him from the hyenas (you're giving your son a heart-to-heart talk, look at him in the eyes!)
    Exactly what I thought.
    Made it very boring to watch at times. They are having the expressions and emotions in their voices, but they just stand there, staring, not moving.

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    Senior Member Kossu's Avatar
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    I watched the movie last Wednesday. I went to watch it with little expectation, on the insistance of my bf, who is also a TLK fan. However, I was a bit curious to see if there were any major alterations or additions to the main plotline and in general...I was going to watch it at some point. Overall, I think the movie met my initial expectations.


    I enjoyed the voice acting, I thought that for the most part it was really good. I didn't like Scar very much, though of course his voice actor had a huge legacy to live up to. The visual rendering of the lions as real, breathing lions was impressive. The sceneries looked beautiful, I especially liked the jungle scenes. Some of the cub scenes looked very cute and the same goes for adorable baby Pumbaa. I liked the hyenas a lot and I felt that they could have a little more depth. They seemed so promising in the Elephant graveyard scene. And indeed, a lot more threatening.

    I also enjoyed the additions of the jungle animals, especially the bat eared fox. It made the whole jungle environment a little more lively. Also, it made me wonder if they used any of the discarted concept material from the 1994 film, because there was a bat eared fox character (and more characters) that had never made it into the movie then:https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Bhati

    The interaction between Scar and Sarabi surprised me. I got such fanfiction vibes from it. Does anyone remember an old popular fanfic called "Chronicles of the Pridelands" by John Burkitt and David Morris? If I remember correctly, Scar was very much in love with Sarabi in that story. For those that might be familiar with TLKFAA, I remember seeing plenty of fanart from that story back around 2005.

    The scene with Nala escaping Pridelands was the one thing that I was hoping to see in this movie and I was glad they included it.



    Now, on the things I didn't like.


    Surprise...The lack of emotion. I expected this from all I'd seen of the trailers, but I didn't think it'd be so serious. A part of me was still hoping we were just not getting a good glimpse of what we'd see. But there it was. You have all the crucial emotional moments, that will add to the characters development and will make you feel things for the character... and the voice actors have done a fair job...and yet you just don't see it. The reaction you expect never comes.
    Like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Leorgathar View Post
    or when Mufasa is talking to Simba after saving him from the hyenas (you're giving your son a heart-to-heart talk, look at him in the eyes!)
    Or Simba's reaction when Mufasa dies. Scar seemed more expressive than the rest, but even in his case there isn't much variation. Also, it seemed to me that unlike the lions until then, from the moment Timon and Pumbaa come to the scene, there's a lot more life and expression to them. And it seemed to me that it stayed that way to the end. Maybe it was just my idea though.

    "Be prepared" felt boring. That adds to the lack of charm of Scar as a villain. He's just a sick-looking lion with a bad RBF case.

    The first part of the movie seems well balanced. The second part though, felt very rushed. Simba and Nala getting together and parting again, it happened so very fast. Nala saying goodbye and running away like it was nothing was very odd for me too. It made Simba and Nala's relationship seem a lot more flat. And the scene with Mufasa's ghost. It felt empty. It didn't have the weight and impact that it meant to have. That the original had. The message about learning from the past and finding who you are. It was just, oh right, I'm Simba son of Mufasa, going back, bye. I liked seeing Simba and Nala return together. But, the new song "Spirit", it didn't feel like it fit in that scene at all. It felt generic and forgetable. I really missed Busa. It would have made the scene so much more powerful.

    Finally, another thing that still baffles me to no end...and it seemed to be coming from the trailers was...the lack of colour and contrast. Colour is so very important in the visual arts to establishing mood. To evoke feelings like happiness, fear, hope etc. Just like music. And yet. The film seems for the most part washed out. Flat. Like a documentary from the 90s. It seemed to me like the most succesful mood-setting scene was battle for Pride rock, where the colours were inevitably darker. But for the most part, the rest of the movie, doesn't deliver on that point. The most colourful scene of the 1994 film, "I just can't wait to be king" seems so boring and has lost its energy and life. I don't understand how a professional studio like Disney is okay with this washed out, amateuristic photographic style. It's like they aim for a 90s documentary style. I just don't get it. And it makes me sad, because I think that to an extent, better colour mood-setting would have helped made up for the lack of the characters expressions and help illustrate better the emotions they were experiencing.


    In the end, to connect with the characters and the plot I feel like I was clinging on to the 1994 movie too much to make watching this bearable. If I didn't know what would happen in the 1994 movie, if I wasn't familiar with the music, I think I'd be confused as for what the characters were feeling and thinking. Or how it all connected. I teared up when Mufasa died and it resonated to me right then, that if it wasn't for this music that I was already familiar with and overall with the connection with the original, I'd be hardly moved. From that moment onwards I felt like I was watching some sort of very well made parody.

    It was interesting to see some things from another perspective and I certainly didn't hate this film, but I didn't like it enough either. It left me feeling meh too. It doesn't feel like it has much heart to stand out on its own. It seems to me that it just relies too much on people's memories and love for the original.


    I truly feel I would have enjoyed it a lot more, if there was more colour/contrast and not such a lack of expressions. But in the end, that's what they were aiming for...
    Last edited by Kossu; July 22nd, 2019 at 12:33 PM.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member nathalie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kossu View Post
    Finally, another thing that still baffles me to no end...and it seemed to be coming from the trailers was...the lack of colour and contrast. Colour is so very important in the visual arts to establishing mood. To evoke feelings like happiness, fear, hope etc. Just like music. And yet. The film seems for the most part washed out. Flat. Like a documentary from the 90s. It seemed to me like the most succesful mood-setting scene was battle for Pride rock, where the colours were inevitably darker. But for the most part, the rest of the movie, doesn't deliver on that point. The most colourful scene of the 1994 film, "I just can't wait to be king" seems so boring and has lost its energy and life. I don't understand how a professional studio like Disney is okay with this washed out, amateuristic photographic style. It's like they aim for a 90s documentary style. I just don't get it. And it makes me sad, because I think that to an extent, better colour mood-setting would have helped made up for the lack of the characters expressions and help illustrate better the emotions they were experiencing.
    We've seen it tonight in "super screen" (and wow, it was bad if you have sensitive vision, or get headaches quite easy, like me, was glad it was over, haha).
    BUT ...
    I also did think the coloring was a bit bland, not much contrast.
    But it may all just depend on the theater and their screen.

    Tonight was very vibrant, and lots of contrast! Much more colorful then the previous 2 viewings I saw at the cinema in town.
    For this super screen viewing, we had to go to another theater.

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    Donut Face cleargreenwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kossu View Post
    I

    In the end, to connect with the characters and the plot I feel like I was clinging on to the 1994 movie too much to make watching this bearable. If I didn't know what would happen in the 1994 movie, if I wasn't familiar with the music, I think I'd be confused as for what the characters were feeling and thinking. Or how it all connected. I teared up when Mufasa died and it resonated to me right then, that if it wasn't for this music that I was already familiar with and overall with the connection with the original, I'd be hardly moved. From that moment onwards I felt like I was watching some sort of very well made parody.

    It was interesting to see some things from another perspective and I certainly didn't hate this film, but I didn't like it enough either. It left me feeling meh too. It doesn't feel like it has much heart to stand out on its own. It seems to me that it just relies too much on people's memories and love for the original.

    I think you said a mouthful right there. You are absolutely right, if I didn’t know the story so well I probably would be thoroughly disengaged from the film on it’s own merits, and lost at worst. There was a little boy sitting next to me about 8 years old who was asking his mother if it was going to be over, and are they leaving soon, before Mufasa even died, who sat on his mother's phone the rest of the movie.

    Also....

    Quote Originally Posted by Leorgathar View Post
    I think the movie has a problem with handling subtext. Like before the stampede, when Scar and Simba are in the gorge. In the original, Scar plays with Simba's feelings telling him everybody knows about the mess he got in with the hyenas ("lucky daddy was there to save you, huh?") and suggests him to practice his "little roar". That pissed off Simba, which is why he practiced it right there and then, and loud. That was pure Scar-style manipulation, Simba really felt his dad's death was his fault. In the new movie, however, Scar literally tells him that the gorge is where lions practice their roaring, and that he should practice his roar right there to make his dad proud. If I was that version of Simba I'd tell Scar "But you TOLD me to roar here!"
    Dear god did it ever. Most of the dialog just felt like an awkward mess, and there was no follow-through on any of the trains of thought.




    Anyway, my review:


    It wasn’t butchered, but it wasn’t great either. Lots of people have commented on the facial emotions thing so I’ll skip that, there’s plenty of other ways to convey emotion too, though, and the film just fails in them. The effects were "pretty" but the cinematography wasn’t great. Even not taking body posture into account (which yeah…they clearly didn’t try too hard there either,) there’s dramatic angles and things to convey mood and emotion and suspense that the first film had that this one was oblivious to. They could have replicated Simba’s desperate run through the trees after Rafiki if they’d wanted to, lots of CG films have light & shadow running scenes to build drama; things like the hyenas not popping out anywhere; or even the framing shots when you see Pride Rock at the end, the old one conveys movement and drama by following Zazu in, in this one Zazu is just kind of fluttering somewhere on the side of the panorama. They weirdly used the Busa theme to play when Rafiki is fighting at the end, too, why? "Pretty", but no sense of cohesive vision.

    The dialogs all just felt stilted and non-organic/forced/awkward. No natural flow. From all of the characters. (In hindsight the Simba/Nala interactions were pretty rushed/weird, but I’ll admit….I was sort of getting bored with the movie by then and it was just one more example of hot-mess dialog.)

    I liked the handling of the hyenas here better than the original and wish I could transplant it--it was just an inkling in the original that they were a seperate 'nation' with a matriarch, and this film makes that right available and Shenzi is legitimately frightening. But even then, you took the pains to cast comedians and like…barely used them. I get it, its probably WAAAAY more expensive to animate like this, than to dash a pencil around after seeing a voice actor's mannerisms when they go off the cuff, but meh. Would've added a little energy.

    I was totally OK with the reprised Be Prepared. You seriously can’t do goose-stepping hyenas right now, the USA has collectively lost it’s f----n mind lately and it doesn't need to be fed. IMO the reprise was fine considering I thought they weren't even going to have it. It just goes with the lackluster CYFTLT that other people have mentioned.

    And the weirdest thing, but if you would’ve asked me what the theme of the first one was, I would have said to take on responsibility. This one, despite being basically the same, the closest thing to a theme I could force into it was a blunt “don’t be a hedonist”, which I guess is solid advice but lacks all the delicacy and grace and inspiration of the former. The Mufasa-in-the-clouds in this one really did shift the scene from any kind of broad philosophical application of "remember who you are", to specifically being about Simba. I don't think the film took much time to put any kind of heart or meaningfulness into it.

    IDK, ultimately I found it took itself too seriously without any real artistry or vision or investment, impressive as they effects were. The whole thing was pretty shallow, which I guess is better than a raging dumpster fire.

    I left the theater with the music haunting my consciousness like a waking fever dream, and an overall feeling that there was nothing to what I just saw, one way or the other, good or bad, inspiring or nostalgic or not.

    This is not a movie that is going to engage, intrigue, or move new fans, only remind old ones that TLK exists.

    I’ll probably see it again with my cousin in a few weeks, she’ll want to see it and maybe I’ll find up other things to like, and I’ll enjoy raiding the Disney Store for classic merchandise if they have any. That’s about it though. It’ll be out of theaters in about 3 weeks once everyone’s gawked, Disney pushed the TLK brand so the characters don't become obsolete in people's minds, and it’s come and gone.


    And hello plot-holes, ZAZU WASN’T IN A CAGE in this one why did Nala not tell him to go for help, or Zazu not think of it himself? xD


    Edit to add: I want to give the Elton John song a listen thru, I sort of felt like he was giving us middle aged Millenials a bracing message, lol.
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