Evolutionary Education - Do we need more?

[SpiritWolf77]

his is a subject I'm rather passionate about and I hope to show others why, exactly, I am so passionate about it. Likewise, I am curious to know why disbelievers hold their opinions so strongly.

I believe evolution is a valid scientific theory with excessive evidence to back it up. I believe the debate about its validity is based more on personal emotion and fear rather than actual science, and I believe this debate needs to end soon if we are at all to hope to give future generations a decent scientific education.

I've become saddened to see how poorly it is taught in schools these days...and to learn how many people still feel it should not be taught in schools, or should be taught alongside other "theories" which are not scientific. I feel students should receive a proper scientific education in school, and religious opinions should be saved for the home or for personal reflection. Religious belief shouldn't be forced into education, especially not at the cost of dismissing valid science.

What are your views?

[Zoltan]

It's an interesting question, though I find it so distant in time, that I don't really think about which was the real root. Leastways "how" was the real root, because about God, as the ultimate source, I'm sure. Maybe it happened like it's thought in evolution theory. It would make sense after all. On the other hand there are a few mysterious cases, where scientists seem to find out that a certain artefacts don'T fit the official timeline, because they mustbe older than we'd think. So maybe we came to earth like how we are now. And what about those 'previous' types oh human-like beings? Maybe they were different species, resembling us, but they went extinct as our kind got the upper hand over them.

Wow, think about it, how cool it would be if we had one or two other homosapiens-like species rambling on Earth, who could communicate with us via speech. Although I think they became extinct due to their lower intelligence level, and because of the agressive behaviour of homosapiens.

One way or another, today it's not really matter to me how it was after the Start. Things start to be insteresting from the dawn of nations again. It's hard enough to trace even only those anyway.

[lion_roog]

Those who plan to disagree with something should first know exactly what they are disagreeing with.

Right now evolution is a valid scientific theory and should be taught as such; leaving it up to the individual to agree or disagree with the theory while being knowledgable on the theory itself. It seems rather useless and ignorant to disagree with something you know little about.

[Sadiki]

I don't know if I really have much to say on this... we have over half year dedicated on evolution and all that 7-9 grade ( in biology and geology ) and in High school you have to at least compleat Biology course 2 which handles only evolution and genetics. So in our schooling system I don't see how they could really teach it more.

[Simba_2004]

personally I believe it should be removed from the school systems, but that is my personal views. I haven't seen any evidence to prove evolution "real," But I have seen plenty of evidence proving evolution fiction and our school systems shouldn't be teaching fiction, only warps minds. God created humans and all the animals, my ancestors were not monkeys.

[Toushiro]

i agree that evolution is poorly taught in schools these days, but its not really the curriculum's fault that most teachers in high school or lower levels of classes just suck at their jobs. evolution is pretty much the only thing in biology that even remotely interests me and its only been really well-taught for me when i looked up stuff about it myself. public schools arent really teaching facilities anymore... theyre free babysitting. only about one in ten teachers actually do what teachers are supposed to do. evolution seems to be one of those subjects teachers struggle with a lot. maybe theyre too overly conscious about students who have strong religious beliefs and they just want to avoid conflict with them (teachers hate it when students challenge them on anything... trust me, i know since i did it all the time and still do as a college student). biology teachers who dont teach evolution probably avoid the subject because its more convenient for them to avoid it.

science education (in general and not just with biology and evolution) is suffering. my old high school was so underfunded that the only materials we had to experiment with in chemistry was water, salt and vinegar. its sad, but it cant be helped. the people dont want science being taught anymore. we had measures that tried to be passed in the last few local elections that would give more funding to science programs around the state but each time, the people voted "no" so the measure failed. just one more reason i dislike letting the majority make decisions *shakes head*.

biology classes should teach about evolution since its a theory within biology and quite a major one at that. i see no reason why it shouldnt be in the curriculum for biology but teachers tend to avoid it and theres not much that can be helped about that.

[SpiritWolf77]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Those who plan to disagree with something should first know exactly what they are disagreeing with.

Precisely. I find the main problem that arises with so many people "disbelieving" it is that they don't know much about it at all. Most of these people that I've personally talked to think it's about the Big Bang. :/

Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
I don't know if I really have much to say on this... we have over half year dedicated on evolution and all that 7-9 grade ( in biology and geology ) and in High school you have to at least compleat Biology course 2 which handles only evolution and genetics. So in our schooling system I don't see how they could really teach it more.

I think it's mostly a problem in the US. It's really glossed over in most undergraduate US schooling.

Originally posted by Simba_2004
personally I believe it should be removed from the school systems, but that is my personal views. I haven't seen any evidence to prove evolution "real," But I have seen plenty of evidence proving evolution fiction and our school systems shouldn't be teaching fiction, only warps minds. God created humans and all the animals, my ancestors were not monkeys.

Since you sound so convinced, care to explain the evidence which you feel proves it fiction? If you really are somehow more knowledgeable and correct about the subject than the majority of the scientific community and nearly everyone who has studied it in depth, then I assume you can back up your views with scientific fact and logic.

[HasiraKali]

I think the main problem with evolution is the vast majority of people don't know what it's really all about and what's trying to say. It's really a lot of misunderstandings about what exactly the theory is all about. I, personally, feel that it should be taught in schools as a valid scientific theory (which it is). It's up to the individual to decide what they want to believe.

This topic has caused some rather heated arguments in the past. I'll leave this thread open as long as everyone is being nice. Thanks y'all.

[Juniper]

I think evolution, and only evolution, should be taught in schools. It's currently the only scientific theory that explains today's biodiversity. Contrary to a common person's understanding of "Theory," a scientific theory needs decades upon decades of testing and retesting with no credible and applicable data disproving it to recieve such a designation. While there are other hypothesies that have been suggested to explain today's biodiversity, none have the evidence that evolution does. Likewise, I don't think religious concepts to explain biodiversity should be taught in biology classes because they are, by definition, not science. That doesn't mean that it's stupid to believe in them or even that they're not true. However, since religious beliefs of how life came to be are not based upon the scientific method, they are not science and should not be taught in a science class.

I personally think that God used evolution as a way to put animals, plants, and people on the planet. However, since only the evolution part is testable under the scientific method, I don't think it would be right to suggest in a science class that God was responsible for such processes.

[SpiritWolf77]

Originally posted by HasiraKali
I think the main problem with evolution is the vast majority of people don't know what it's really all about and what's trying to say. It's really a lot of misunderstandings about what exactly the theory is all about.

Agreed. I honestly don't think I have ever met someone who doubted it who actually really understood what it was/had researched it thoroughly.

I think if someone's going to outright dismiss a theory which the majority of the scientific community states is true, then they'd better be sure they really understand what they're dismissing and have valid scientific reasons to back up their disbelief. And in my experience, the naysayers don't.

[Dyani]

One thing we need to remember. Evolution is a theory. Its not 100% truth. Its what most people believe is the truth. But just because the majority believe it, doesn't make it fact. Its like Christianity in that light.

Simba_2004 - You haven't seen *any evidence to prove evolution "real"* but I haven't seen any evidence to prove it otherwise, or to prove other theories correct, including religion, on the creation of life. With no ill intent meant, I see most religions as fiction but as an important benefical part of society. You believe Christianity's theory of the creation of life as truth, and some people agree with you. However, you think that teaching the thoery of evolution in schools should be banned. Not everyone thinks like you and so everyone should be given the chance to figure out on their own which they would like to believe in.


Edit - take the word "believe" loosely there, no quibbling about its greater meaning or other should twaddle. ^^

[SpiritWolf77]

Originally posted by Dyani
One thing we need to remember. Evolution is a theory. Its not 100% truth. Its what most people believe is the truth. But just because the majority believe it, doesn't make it fact.

"Theory" in science does not mean the same as "theory" in colloquial English. A scientific theory is "A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena." - Dictionary.

In short, a scientific theory is an explanation of a set of facts which are combined into an overarching concept. Theories explain how facts are put together. Theories are not "guesses" "hypotheses" or the next step down from a fact. Theories can be considered entirely factual and proven. Gravitational theory, for example. No one considers that "not 100% truth," right? Because Gravitational Theory doesn't mean "Best guess about how gravity works" it means "Explanation about how gravity works." The Theory of Evolution is the explanation of how evolution works. Not a guess or hypothesis. It is entirely scientifically proven. Theory, in a scientific sense, simply means "explanation" not "hypothesis." Hypotheses are called just that: hypotheses. If there was still reasonable doubt about how evolution functioned, it would be called a hypothesis, not a theory.

Anyone who wishes to argue otherwise ought to provide some scientific evidence to back their claim so we can discuss this on a rational level. I hope Simba_2004 will do so when he gets back to this thread.

Simba_2004 - You haven't seen *any evidence to prove evolution "real"* but I haven't seen any evidence to prove it otherwise, or to prove other theories correct, including religion, on the creation of life.

Again, confusing the colloquial use of theory with with the scientific use. The Theory of Evolution is not a theory in the same way a religious belief is a "theory" or opinion. I just want to be absolutely clear on this since it's probably the single most common misunderstanding about this subject.

[Dyani]

Ug... quibbling about a word again? O_o

Science is one great big guess. We take what is available to us and guess (with tests etc) how/why/when it happens. You cannot say that one theory is fact when somewhere on earth or in space, it completely rips that theory to shreds. Take the Gravitation theory one. Its been based on what happens on Earth alone. Anti-matter does not follow the rules of gravity. Cosmic rays hardly obey any known scientific rules made by us. Science is changing constantly. Once we belived the earth was flat. We now know/hope we know it is infact a flattened sphere shape. Its why they call theories theories. They are theories until proven to be facts, then they are known as facts.

All I'm trying to say is that one can't say either Evolution or Christianity is 100% proven fact. People believe in both, but its a choice. Its a decision the individual should be allowed to make.

Is quibbling with words really nessisary? Oo

[SpiritWolf77]

I'm not "quibbling about a word." I just wanted to clarify the meaning of scientific theory because a lot of people misinterpret it to mean "evolution is only speculation and does not have enough evidence supporting it to be considered proven yet."

I'm aware that our very observation is all open to interpretation, and even what we consider solid fact may not be, but the way you worded it made it sound like you think there's not enough substantial evidence supporting it, or that there's equal scientific evidence supporting it and Creationism.

[A-non-a-mus]

I don't mind evolution... but I don't think schools should enforce darwin's theory ... because that's a belief... unless the schools allow all studies beliefs they shouldn't hold their own views as truth...

(what I'm meaning is, some with say evolution means we came from monkeys... I don't believe that... and shouldn't have to face schools' exams saying otherwise, claiming it as 'evolution' ... then go ahead and ban every other teachings and beliefs... aside the boards' own)

[XxBlackXxParadeXx]

I belive/agree with evolution, and i think it should be teached.

[Avalon]

I believe and agree with evolution, it explains how everything on this earth came to be as it is today. I believe it should be taught in school. Darwinism shouldn't be confused with evolution. Darwinism is based on the basics of Darwin's threories stateing that only the one with the best genes ect. survive.

This however isn't always the case, atleast not when this genetical diesease doesn't make life impossible x)

[SpiritWolf77]

Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
I don't mind evolution... but I don't think schools should enforce darwin's theory ... because that's a belief... unless the schools allow all studies beliefs they shouldn't hold their own views as truth...

(what I'm meaning is, some with say evolution means we came from monkeys... I don't believe that... and shouldn't have to face schools' exams saying otherwise, claiming it as 'evolution' ... then go ahead and ban every other teachings and beliefs... aside the boards' own)

It's not a "belief." It's science supported by evidence. Do you think schools also shouldn't enforce gravitational theory because that's just a "belief?"

Do you know why evolution says we share common ancestors with apes (not monkeys)? If you know the scientific evidence behind it, then you shouldn't be calling it a "belief." If you don't know the scientific evidence behind it, then this is even more reason why it really needs to be better taught in schools, since so many people are ignorant of the subject, especially the scientific details.

[SpiritWolf77]

Originally posted by Avalon
I believe and agree with evolution, it explains how everything on this earth came to be as it is today. I believe it should be taught in school. Darwinism shouldn't be confused with evolution. Darwinism is based on the basics of Darwin's threories stateing that only the one with the best genes ect. survive.

This however isn't always the case, atleast not when this genetical diesease doesn't make life impossible x)

Actually, Darwin's theory is the basis evolution. His theory states that the "fittest" will survive, not the "best." "Fittest" in this context does not mean best, it means "most adapted to the environment."

Simply put: if an organism can live long enough to reproduce and pass on their genes, then those genes are the ones that will be maintained throughout the gene pool.

[Avalon]

@SpiritWolf77

I am sorry xD I guess I used the wrong wording there. :x