New Al Qaeda Leader Planning Attack Against U.S. ?

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

This is nothing to do with sympathising with the terrorists. It's simply that the rest of the world has a very cynical view of the US. You mention killing innocent civilians in times of peace, what exactly did the US and its 'allies' (of which I'm disappointed to say the UK was one) do in Iraq? There was no immediate threat, whatever Bush and Blair may say, and they essentially stormed the place.

There are also many events in the past that have contributed to this oft-found worldwide view on America. Things such as jumping into other people's wars - Iraq #1 and Vietnam come to mind immediately. Plus you're going to have to accept that the country with the most power is always going to come under the most scrutiny and criticism due to the fact that you have to potential to kill us all on a whim.

[Juniper]

Bud, I was talking about a completely different subject and was not talking to you or about your post.


You seem to have a very very sick and twisted view of the US, which seems to be commonplace among misinformed people nowadays, as we are not some country out to ruin the world's day. The majority of the US does not like war, the people of society want to avoid it, and I'd appreciate you not grouping me in with the war-mongers. But, of course, arguing that point with you would be as fruitful as arguing with a brick wall, as I'm sure you're set in your viewpoint and no amount of reason could sway you otherwise.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

Originally posted by pntbll248
Bud, I was talking about a completely different subject and was not talking to you or about your post.

You seem to have a very very sick and twisted view of the US, which seems to be commonplace among misinformed people nowadays, as we are not some country out to ruin the world's day. The majority of the US does not like war, the people of society want to avoid it, and I'd appreciate you not grouping me in with the war-mongers. But, of course, arguing that point with you would be as fruitful as arguing with a brick wall, as I'm sure you're set in your viewpoint and no amount of reason could sway you otherwise.

Well I wasn't aware we were getting personal. Shock, horror! ...that I should believe it's possible to have an enlightened debate on a message board without someone bring it down to into personal attacks.

Of course, it would help if you had actually read and understood what I had written; but clearly some people are just looking for an argument...

At no point did I say or even suggest that the American public were pro-war; all my examples relate to the government and the media. I also didn't state my feelings on the USA in general; I merely mentioned some of my thoughts on specific situations and offered probable reasons that may, in some way, support your theory that the world hates your country. Maybe you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to that, but then it's your responsibility to respond in a manner fitting of the discussion. If we were in a high school playground then perhaps your response would be fine, but this is supposed to be an intelligent debate between mature people. Surely that's the very definition of a debate? Not everyone believes the same as you, though that may be beyond your realms of comprehension on the above evidence. I think you'll find my arguments are sound and reasonable; and at no time have I just been spouting off my "sick and twisted" views.

Far be it from me to question your, clearly correct, opinions on me...but perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start launching offensives. I would offer this up to the Moderators as evidence of an unjustified personal attack but hey, life's to short to spend it arguing with people who clearly would be more at home in the classroom throwing bits of scrunched up paper at the teacher.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Well I wasn't aware we were getting personal. Shock, horror! ...that I should believe it's possible to have an enlightened debate on a message board without someone bring it down to into personal attacks.

Of course, it would help if you had actually read and understood what I had written; but clearly some people are just looking for an argument...

At no point did I say or even suggest that the American public were pro-war; all my examples relate to the government and the media. I also didn't state my feelings on the USA in general; I merely mentioned some of my thoughts on specific situations and offered probable reasons that may, in some way, support your theory that the world hates your country. Maybe you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to that, but then it's your responsibility to respond in a manner fitting of the discussion. If we were in a high school playground then perhaps your response would be fine, but this is supposed to be an intelligent debate between mature people. Surely that's the very definition of a debate? Not everyone believes the same as you, though that may be beyond your realms of comprehension on the above evidence. I think you'll find my arguments are sound and reasonable; and at no time have I just been spouting off my "sick and twisted" views.

Far be it from me to question your, clearly correct, opinions on me...but perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start launching offensives. I would offer this up to the Moderators as evidence of an unjustified personal attack but hey, life's to short to spend it arguing with people who clearly would be more at home in the classroom throwing bits of scrunched up paper at the teacher.

You what, bud, you're right, I attacked you. I went ahead an reported myself to the moderators, as I do not expect special treatment. I apologize if I offended you, it was out of line and uncalled for. Look, I'm having a sh***y time right now, I'm trying to get back on the horse, keep whatever's left of my dignity, and get my old self back; I'd appreciate a bit of support in the process. I trust this is no longer an issue, as my post will be dealt with.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

I can see you had your reasons, not excuses mind, but still I accept and appreciate the apology. However it might be a good idea to avoid such heated debates until you feel a bit better about things. Subjects like this are very close to people's hearts and it's not the sort of thing to enter into when feeling emotional.

Anyway I hope things work out for you and you feel more settled soon. I'm sure the Mods would take your apology into consideration if they did choose to take any action.

[Adrenaline]

Don't they always say they're going to attack? They never seem to.

[Utora]

Originally posted by Adrenaline
Don't they always say they're going to attack? They never seem to.

9/11 and then some.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Well I wasn't aware we were getting personal. Shock, horror! ...that I should believe it's possible to have an enlightened debate on a message board without someone bring it down to into personal attacks.

Of course, it would help if you had actually read and understood what I had written; but clearly some people are just looking for an argument...

At no point did I say or even suggest that the American public were pro-war; all my examples relate to the government and the media. I also didn't state my feelings on the USA in general; I merely mentioned some of my thoughts on specific situations and offered probable reasons that may, in some way, support your theory that the world hates your country. Maybe you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to that, but then it's your responsibility to respond in a manner fitting of the discussion. If we were in a high school playground then perhaps your response would be fine, but this is supposed to be an intelligent debate between mature people. Surely that's the very definition of a debate? Not everyone believes the same as you, though that may be beyond your realms of comprehension on the above evidence. I think you'll find my arguments are sound and reasonable; and at no time have I just been spouting off my "sick and twisted" views.

Far be it from me to question your, clearly correct, opinions on me...but perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start launching offensives. I would offer this up to the Moderators as evidence of an unjustified personal attack but hey, life's to short to spend it arguing with people who clearly would be more at home in the classroom throwing bits of scrunched up paper at the teacher.

Totally offtopic, but I'm here to defend Pnt,

This reply could be easily reported if you read it correctly as you have said..

If we were in a high school playground then perhaps your response would be fine, but this is supposed to be an intelligent debate between mature people.

= put down = against rules

but perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start launching offensives.

Sure its just stating something, but can be a putdown which = against the rules,

and to point out some things also on my point of view.

You mention killing innocent civilians in times of peace, what exactly did the US and its 'allies' (of which I'm disappointed to say the UK was one) do in Iraq?

heres what we didn't do, We didn't nuke there asses to hell is what we didn't do, did you guys not obviously know that was an OPTION to do so to just, blow them away? Yeap it was. SO I think US is doing the rightthing to do.

And you obviously put down and threw away american reputation, in something you have no clue of what the heck you are talking about.

Things such as jumping into other people's wars - Iraq #1 and Vietnam come to mind immediately.

If I'm right, It was President Nixon, and not the people of the United States that wanted to go to war. And half the people of the US didn't even know what was happening, and that Nixon and the government were hiding a huge secret from us until it was published in a newspaper, Get your facts straight before you post okay?

if you want to put someone down, or make points, or views that aren't right, do it somewhere else where their arent people who dont know what they are talking about. And if you want to get really technically about it.

and a little bit of advice

perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself before you start launching offensives.

Practice what you preach pal Go ahead and report me for this, but I was only defending a friend. And if I get in trouble, at least I know I did it to help someone else out, and if I'm banned since I have no warnings. I know Lea isn't the place that you should really be.

With that said,

KTL OUT

[Utora]

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
This is nothing to do with sympathising with the terrorists. It's simply that the rest of the world has a very cynical view of the US. You mention killing innocent civilians in times of peace, what exactly did the US and its 'allies' (of which I'm disappointed to say the UK was one) do in Iraq? There was no immediate threat, whatever Bush and Blair may say, and they essentially stormed the place.

((avoids war on thread))

On a completely different boat, I viewed your post. Because I'm going to counter-debate , it does not mean I hate you or do not consider you my friend. Friends should be able to have a friendly debate at times.

You point out the times America has jumped into conflicts, but let me point the times she didn't.

French Revolution, and WWII is a good two example. Of course when they claim neutrality, they're attacked as well, go figure. It's the World.
Iraq isn't a threat to us, or it's neighbours, but itself actualy. I admit, America changing their government may of not been all too wayso there. None the less I think they need a can o whoop *** on the lot of terrorists contributing to the horrors everyones facing. They tried attack our Nation a while back, then they dedtroyed the Trade Towers and countless people. They attempted to crash into the Pentagon. They've done bombing in other countries. They were caught with attempts to attacking LA. Ay which point do you think America should get involved? I say when they tried years back. However it wasn't until Bush came along that things started to happen. And just recently he is making a 180 on much of his beliefs so therefore I'm not too much in favor of him either.

I don't think the USA enjoys war. I think the terrorists do. It's all over their country. I think if the USA was what you make it to be our very country would be in a war like Iraq is.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

*Sigh* I thought my part in this debate had finished by now, I've said all I need to, but I suppose I must repeat myself one last time...

First of all, regarding Pnt. He has since apologised and I have accepted so I'm only going back over it to justify my actions; I don't bear a grudge Pnt. Okay: KTL...

I had just received Pnt's post, which seemed to offer nothing other than a personal attack, with little reference to what I had actually said. This annoyed me, I believe I'm entitled to that...and I feel I responded rather calmly considering my position; I simply re-stated my arguments...something I seem to be having to do a lot on here. If anyone did bother reporting me for the sentences you highlighted I could easily justify them by pointing out the nature of my previous posts and the apparently uncalled-for insults in the response from Pnt. Next...?

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
heres what we didn't do, We didn't nuke there asses to hell is what we didn't do, did you guys not obviously know that was an OPTION to do so to just, blow them away? Yeap it was. SO I think US is doing the rightthing to do.

And you obviously put down and threw away american reputation, in something you have no clue of what the heck you are talking about.

First of all, just to point something out, the last line could easily be considered a "put down = against rules". Anyway, back to your response...It appears you are saying the US did the 'right' thing simply by not nuking them. Have you considered the fact that they also had the option to not blow them up at all? It's like saying to a starving child in Africa "You're fine, at least you have legs"

If I'm right, It was President Nixon, and not the people of the United States that wanted to go to war. And half the people of the US didn't even know what was happening, and that Nixon and the government were hiding a huge secret from us until it was published in a newspaper, Get your facts straight before you post okay?

For the second time I shall point out the 'put down' and, also for the second time, I shall repeat that none of my arguments imply any pro-war feelings in American citizens. Have you actually read my posts? Just wondering...

if you want to put someone down, or make points, or views that aren't right, do it somewhere else where their arent people who dont know what they are talking about. And if you want to get really technically about it.

Exhitbit C, your honour...yet another insulting and unjustified comment. And what, exactly, is "views that aren't right" supposed to mean? Aww, does someone disagree with your views? Sorry about that, it happens. Oh and "aren't people who don't know what they are talking about" is a double negative...

Practice what you preach pal Go ahead and report me for this, but I was only defending a friend. And if I get in trouble, at least I know I did it to help someone else out, and if I'm banned since I have no warnings. I know Lea isn't the place that you should really be.

Ahh now there's an idea, possibly the most sensible thing you've said in the post, I could report you. You're defending a friend, and that's very admirable, but next time...try not to do the very thing you're complaining about...just makes it look like you don't know what you're doing.

[Kovu The Lion]

BUt you know whats different about us Wew, I don't really care what you do

But the fact over you said you weren't "Pro-war" or whatever. You still implied upon it as that. And nevermind, This isn't even worth arguing about.

But the thing is I can go on and on about how you just offended me or put me down in that post you just made, meaning, Reporting me, would mean I'd have to report you, and it would just continue.. Till we were both in trouble! Wow a chain!

But lets state this also,

If you are going to have a debate, you are going to have put downs, and some harassing, and you are also going to have arguments.

So if you are going to report every little thing that offends you, Why the hell bother posting in a debate, if all that is going to happen is you ending up reporting for your views? Eh, sounds stupid to me but neither the less. Debates here at Lea are useless for some members are just "omfg, i'm so offended"

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
It's simply that the rest of the world has a very cynical view of the US.

And it's very funny that the U.S. doesn't view the rest of the world that way. People wonder why the United States is so beaucoup frightened nowadays. Because we're on everyone's radar, and because of this; we have to be very skeptical about everything. You know what actually, I really don't care what the rest of the world thinks of us, because they don't live here, so how do they really know us. And vice versa. Because we really don't know them either. Unless you've been here or there, only the media will tell you what or what not you are going to know.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

FAO KTL: Ah yes, so now you don't care...one would question why you made such an empassioned response the first time around if that was the case?

Oh, and I'm glad to see you still haven't read my posts...if I implied anything it was that I am vehemently anti-war. Frankly I'd question the sanity of any human that was 'pro-war'.

Anyway I agree, nevermind...take your leave of absense from political discussion and we can both be on our merry way.

Oh, and I took your sage advice and sent a little report slip along to the mods...told them to go easy on you though...


EDIT: Seeing as you did I thought I might as well...

I agree and have no problem with debate, it's when it gets personal that it becomes obsolete and the topic is reduced to the level of infants. Oh, and unless you can be reported for defending your arguments in a calm and controlled manner, while remaining on-topic and not getting personal, then good luck with reporting me.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Ah yes, so now you don't care...one would question why you made such an empassioned response the first time around if that was the case?

Oh, and I'm glad to see you still haven't read my posts...if I implied anything it was that I am vehemently anti-war. Frankly I'd question the sanity of any human that was 'pro-war'.

Anyway I agree, nevermind...take your leave of absense from political discussion and we can both be on our merry way.

Oh, and I took your sage advice and sent a little report slip along to the mods...told them to go easy on you though...

Good job Wew, Do you want a medal for your actions? : )

Keep that up with the reporting, and soon, THERE WONT BE AN LEA. Jesus lmao. And btw, You can't go any easier when you have no warnings left And why do I leave? Because I have a choice to leave and not post here if I want to, but now. I feel as if arguing about useless materials would be the best in my interests.

But ah you see.. I am now sad because you sent a report, and now I'm put down.. Should I report you also ?

EDIT: Wow i'm a retard xD Anyways, I'm just.. Backing off. Congratz on the victory.

[unregistered user]

Here, I will give Thorazine and a neuropeptide enhancer if y'all will cool it.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

Just to let you know, I've been here for quite a long time and you're the first person I've ever reported. And even then I probably wouldn't have if you hadn't asked me to. The option to report is there for a reason, and I doubt the mods would see mine as unjustified.

Oh, and if this debate is so useless why did you come here in the first place? From what I can gather it was for no other reason than to start a fight with me...each to their own I suppose.

Anyway, I'm tired of this, if somone wishes to debate my views with me further I'll gladly do it over PM. I've stated all my views and I'm going to leave it at that. In the meantime I'll apologise for my part in the thrilling discourse with KTL that got in the way of an interesting debate...I'm sure it made great reading to y'all.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Sonkakee
Here, I will give Thorazine and a neuropeptide enhancer if y'all will cool it.

Deal!

anyways, I agree totally with what Sonkakee said, Though sometimes it may look like the US is doing things for very bad reasons (things in Iraq) Its actually for a pretty danged good reason.

If you look at us over in Iraq, our soldiers are not only fighting, but helping to rebuild the community. We even have PeaceCorps members out there rebuilding cities, helping the economy, and trying to establish a government in some cities and establishments, and some, thankfully, have been succesful!

So I don't really see why.. People think the US is such a bad place, and why we are just "Killers" or in other words, "People who do bad things" :S


EDIT: Wow, I'm lost now, didn't you just not report Pntball?
Also, I'm not going any farther than this. He asked a question(this is to the mods) and I'm going to answer it.

I came to defend Pnt in what he said, though he apologized, I still don't see why He had to apologize after what you posted in response to what he said.


~KTL~

[Dare]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion

Wow, I'm lost now, didn't you just not report Pntball?

Pntbll reported himself.

[Kovu The Lion]

I see, Sorry about that then WwE, :P I'm a bit out of my mind tonight apparently >D And mmkay, I'm out of this off-topic/assulting/mauling/put-downs/reporting-people/thing lol :P

Back ontopic...

Wait, no point in me posting anything else about this topic.. I wont be able to see it tomorrow.


~KTL~

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
If you look at us over in Iraq, our soldiers are not only fighting, but helping to rebuild the community. We even have PeaceCorps members out there rebuilding cities, helping the economy, and trying to establish a government in some cities and establishments, and some, thankfully, have been succesful!

What else were we supposed to do? We overthrew the government and created chaos in Iraq when Saddam was evicted from office. It's not like we had much of a choice when it came to staying in Iraq... if we had just left Iraq after Saddam was evicted, the world would be against us. Besides, honestly, there are and have been much more needy non-Iraqi nations that we haven't helped. Why don't we do anything about the terrible events occuring in Africa, or parts of Asia? IDK how many Iraqis died from Saddam's reign, but 1 million people died in the rwandan genocide , and the US did nothing at all about that.