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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Gun Control

    This sparked quite a debate on another set of forums I used to be on and it will most likely get y'all talking in here.

    Now I am highly against gun control in general because everybody has a basic right to defend him or herself and nowadays that means owning a firearm. No matter where you live, you constantly live under the threat of some sort of armed attack involving gun control by a gang of some sort. Even if you banned the ownership of guns from every citizen in the world, criminals would be able to get guns from the black market or manufacture their own makeshift weapons. How will we thrive as a race if we can't defend ourselves against this threat? Is gun control really necessary? I think not, what about you?

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    I am against many aspects of gun control, too. Even though I support some gun control, such as not letting people who have committed crimes with guns be allowed to own them. I believe I should have the right to defend myself within reason instead of depending on the government (police, etc) to protect me.

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    How would the Virginia Tech massacre have been different had students been allowed to carry weapons?

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    I would say that if the students were allowed weapons, somebody might have been able to neutralize the shooter (I don't want to type his name, but we all know it) before that many lives were lost. Maybe he would actually be in a mental hospital getting help because he probably wouldn't have been killed if somebody got a NEUTRALIZING (in the arm or legs) shot to hit him.

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    Aka STM (Administrator ) Sadiki's Avatar
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    I take a diffrend side on this issue as gun control being good thing. Thought I know it's not as easy to control as big nation as US, over here the gun control works pretty good and you are only allowed to carry a gun with a license and only in reason of hunting. shooting someone even for a self defense is a crime no matter if the other has a gun or not, here only ones that are allowed to shoot with any chance of getting away with it is police / military police.

    And as far as I know we have bearly had any gun insidence... probably less than 50 people die from shooting per year and that is pretty good if you ask me. But as I said Finland is quite diffrend from US.

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    .. crazeh americans and their gun problems

    In Europe you dont have to worry about all that, and you dont live under a threat here so you most likely dont need a gun where ever you go or not go.

    Of course theres exceptions buuut ..

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    ^ We don't have gun problems...

    We just have crazies... with the guns...

    I agree with Roog, and however there should be some type/s of gun control. These are preventive measures that may or may not help. Aboriginal confines that may not agree because people can't conform to basic legality, this too protects you from apprehension and stupidity.

    Bear arms with responsibility, so that no-one else has to...

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    Originally posted by Elly
    ^ We don't have gun problems...

    We just have crazies... with the guns...

    .. whats the difference? Its still a problem with the gun .. wether its about the person or controlls or gun itself .. right? x)

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    Im in the Swiss Army (as it's a militia) and therefore have an assault rifle at home.

    Yet, I have to say that NOBODY who doesn't have the training and drill for handling a weapon, should be allowed to have one.

    Pragmatic shooting practice is important, not only for your own safety, also to guarantee that you don't kill the one you eventually have to shoot at. As long as we're not in some kind of war, we're training guard shooting, which means to simply make a person unable performing a threat to yourself or your friends. Such a shot is usually placed at the legs or arms of the target, but never in a vital area. Said shot has to be placed correctly without thinking too much, and that again means a lot of training.

    In my opinion, a civil person is unable to handle that correctly - as the firearm will always be used in stress situations, where the shooter - and specially an untrained shooter - has almost no self-control.

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    Me personally, I'm pretty much all for gun control. We have fairly strict rules regarding guns over hear, requiring lisences and permits etc. I'm just not comfortable with the idea that other places have, that if you simply want to own a gun, you can, and it doesn't really matter who you are. Guns are a powerful tool, and they give the people who are holding them, a whole lotta power they might not have had before.
    And like KovuTN was saying about people requiring training, I certainly wouldn't trust myself with a gun. I trust myself enough not to be stupid and wave it around the place, but I really have no idea how to handle a gun, emotionally as well. But that's just me. I guess it all depends on the person.
    That which you manifest is before you.

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    I think whether or not you're for gun control depends partially on where you live (as some people have hinted at already). For instance, when I can afford it, I'm going to purchase a firearm and get it licensed if that doesn't cost too much (you can legally own a firearm in Arizona unlicensed). If someone enters your place, a gun would be the most effective way of putting them down, especially if they're high on something. But since most murders (in America at least) are done by someone you know, I guess it's the people you know who you should be most cautious of.

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    Posted by: STM
    Thought I know it's not as easy to control as big nation as US, over here the gun control works pretty good
    You make a good point; one I haven't heard that much in any gun control discussion I've had: the need for personal protection and the effectiveness of gun control vary by country and culture.

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    Originally posted by lion_roog
    I think whether or not you're for gun control depends partially on where you live (as some people have hinted at already). For instance, when I can afford it, I'm going to purchase a firearm and get it licensed if that doesn't cost too much (you can legally own a firearm in Arizona unlicensed). If someone enters your place, a gun would be the most effective way of putting them down, especially if they're high on something. But since most murders (in America at least) are done by someone you know, I guess it's the people you know who you should be most cautious of.
    The point is: the US have these problems exactly because just every idiot can get a firearm. It's a homemade problem that could be solved if people would need to have licenses and have to prove their hours of training in order that they can own a gun.

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    I support gun control andd i would even set up an bullet and any kind of ammo control. Yes everyone has right to defent himself- but why has to be done with guns? no wonder in USA there are so many murders. I live peacefully here and i have no gun and no fear of guns or anyone. Most people think gun is not necesarry and they avoid them. I rather dont have it and get and give few punches than shots if there is a fight. at least i know i will return home alive.

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    Originally posted by KovuTN
    Im in the Swiss Army (as it's a militia) and therefore have an assault rifle at home.

    Yet, I have to say that NOBODY who doesn't have the training and drill for handling a weapon, should be allowed to have one.

    Pragmatic shooting practice is important, not only for your own safety, also to guarantee that you don't kill the one you eventually have to shoot at.
    There's never a guarantee that you won't kill the person you shoot. A shot to any major part of the body will kill a person if that person is not treated immediately. I've always been taught to never raise a gun to a person you don't intend to kill. If I'm in a situation that requires shooting someone, I'm shooting multiple rounds to the chest. If I'm in a situation where I think I should be shooting a person in the knees or arms so I don't immediately kill the person, then I'm not in a situation where I should be shooting at all.

    On gun control, I believe that ownership of arms is a basal right that all American's should have unless taken away individually by a court of law for gun related criminal acts. By the by, I've lived around guns my whole life being from a rural community in the US, and I've also lived a relatively peaceful life. Never had to point a gun at somoene or anything like that. Personally, I think people who haven't lived around responsible gun owners for a good portion of their life are the biggest threat.

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    Originally posted by pntbll248
    [B]There's never a guarantee that you won't kill the person you shoot. A shot to any major part of the body will kill a person if that person is not treated immediately.
    The point is that you don't shoot the torso or head. A proper shot should simply stop the aggressor, never kill him. Of course, you need to treat that person then, but it's better being able to treat him instead of no longer being able to do so.

    I've always been taught to never raise a gun to a person you don't intend to kill. If I'm in a situation that requires shooting someone, I'm shooting multiple rounds to the chest.
    Which is wrong education. In the army we had to learn the following sentence: "Always be aware of your target", which doesn't mean anything different than "don't point your gun at something you don't want to hit". It's never wise to use a gun with the intention to "kill" someone.

    If I'm in a situation where I think I should be shooting a person in the knees or arms so I don't immediately kill the person, then I'm not in a situation where I should be shooting at all.
    Shall I invite you to a training with my company?

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    Originally posted by KovuTN
    Shall I invite you to a training with my company?
    Sure, tell ya what, if you get me a day of training with your company, maybe I'll be able to get ya'll back on track.

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    Originally posted by KovuTN
    Shall I invite you to a training with my company?
    HAHA.. Many people would need that.
    I dont understand how in USA you can get a gun just becouse its your right even if your a total psycho.
    You have to do a test here to say if you are normal enough, then learn all about guns and safety and even in that you get tested. you have to get a licence to prove your knowledge and all.

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    Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A lot of the gun problems governments have is mostly due to the aggressor's history. Someone being bullied at school could be bringing a gun to school to teach his attackers a lesson. Its not good, but hardly unfair.

    I don't think guns should be allowed in the hands of the common people, but, I don't know what its like to be afriad of walking around a street corner for fear of being shot in the back. A lot of our opinions on this are based on our own experiences. Some will be pro-everyone-have-guns maybe because they don't know the consequence. Some will be very against it maybe because they're naive enough to hope that, without guns, humanities main problems would be solved. I mention those thoughts because I swing from either side. I don't like any kind of modern weapon, its cowardly and too easy to get. But, just because someone owns a gun doesn't mean they are a pscyho waiting for a mass murder, but neither will they be neglecting a gun should the occasion to use it arise.

    I don't like guns. Or bombs. Or tanks. Or any type of modern weapon. I wish we never had the imagination for it. Its not a proud thing, having such a powerful imagination to think up a weapon that can level entire cities in moments. Thats not clever. It wasn't clever in Hiroshima and it still isn't now.

    My opinions. Sorry if they offend. Thats if anyone reads it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Shatara's Avatar
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    Hmm, a few things to tackle here...

    shooting someone even for a self defense is a crime
    this is less gun control and more crime, but its really sad when a government puts its criminals before its law abiding citizens... Only being able to ask nicely not to have your brains blown out by a criminal with god-only-knows-what intentions really doesnt fly...

    .. whats the difference? Its still a problem with the gun .. wether its about the person or controlls or gun itself .. right? x)
    A better way to say it, is we dont have a gun problem, we have a crime problem. A gun is merely a tool, which can be weilded for good, or for evil. No amount of laws will affect those who by definition, have no regard for the law.

    Pragmatic shooting practice is important, not only for your own safety,
    Very true.
    Such a shot is usually placed at the legs or arms of the target, but never in a vital area.
    Very...not. You are the first person I've EVER seen claim such. Aiming at extremities puts both yourself and those around you at risk, as you are both more likely to miss (you're not clint eastwood), and less likely to disable your target. If it isn't worth killing over, its not worth DRAWING over. Guns are lethal force. If you are not prepared to kill, you should not be handling firearms in a defensive capacity. To reiterate:
    If I'm in a situation where I think I should be shooting a person in the knees or arms so I don't immediately kill the person, then I'm not in a situation where I should be shooting at all.
    QFE.

    I'm just not comfortable with the idea that other places have, that if you simply want to own a gun, you can, and it doesn't really matter who you are.
    The point is: the US have these problems exactly because just every idiot can get a firearm.
    I dont understand how in USA you can get a gun just becouse its your right even if your a total psycho.
    These arent really accurate. You cannot get a gun if you have a felony record. You cannot get a gun if you have a restraining order against you. Nor if you are mentally ill. Nor if you have a history of domestic violence. Indivudual states tend to vary, though these tend to hold true in most places AFAIK. Aside from the above (and maybe some things I've missed), theres no real reason to bar one from owning firearms.

    Guns are a powerful tool, and they give the people who are holding them, a whole lotta power
    This is a key, important statement. Guns are indeed a powerful tool. This country was founded on the notion that the power should lie with the people, and without that power, talk of free speech and religion is just talk. Sorry for invoking Godwin, but the first thing Hitler did was take the guns. I dont think I need to finish that story, we know the rest.

    Even outside such worst-case doomsday scenarios, the power of the gun is highly important. The list of things a wheelchair-bound 80 year old can succesfully use to protect their home and self against a halfdozen teenage thugs is VERY short.

    Yes everyone has right to defent himself- but why has to be done with guns?
    Because the gun is THE best tool for the job. I am not a large person. If some 300-pound thug corners me in an alley, I'm screwed. More so if he has a knife. But if I have a gun, suddenly his size advantage is completely negated. I reemphasize the 80-year old granny from earlier in this post. If the other guy has a gun, nothing short of your own firearm even gives a chance (even then you have serious issues).

    doesn't mean anything different than "don't point your gun at something you don't want to hit". It's never wise to use a gun with the intention to "kill" someone.
    Not quite. It's "Don't point your gun at something you wouldn't want dead." Firearms are lethal force.

    It wasn't clever in Hiroshima and it still isn't now.
    Forgive the minor hyjack, and not saying I'm proud of it, but you must remember the alternative was full scale invasion of the mainland. Okinawa was considered the 'dress rehersal' for such an invasion, and it saw the bloodiest fighting of the entire war. The vast majority of troops and civilians on the island either fought to the death, or threw themselves over the cliffs to avoid capture. Upscaling that to the Japanese mainland, the leveling of two cities would have paled in comparison bloodbath that would have ensued.

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