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Thread: Debate: Experts say trophy hunting will save remaining lions.

  1. #1
    The Alpha Wolf Returns Aurelian's Avatar
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    Debate: Experts say trophy hunting will save remaining lions.

    JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - Trophy hunting should be encouraged as a way to protect the dwindling number of African lions facing habitat loss and other threats, a group of conservationists has said.

    Following a week-long meeting in Johannesburg, the experts from about a dozen southern and eastern African countries endorsed regulated trophy hunting.

    "Regulated trophy hunting was not considered a threat, but rather viewed as a way to help alleviate human-lion conflict and generate economic benefits for poor people to build their support for lion conservation," said a statement from the IUCN-World Conservation Union, which organised the meeting, released at the weekend.

    Across Africa, the lion has disappeared from more than 80 percent of its former range, and they now number between 23,000 and 39,000, according to the IUCN-WCU.

    In West Africa, lions number fewer than 1,500.

    "There seems to be general agreement here that trophy hunting is not the cause of this lion decline," said cat specialist Kristin Nowell.

    Tanzania is the top destination for hunters, mostly from the United States and Europe, who pay large sums for the opportunity to shoot a lion, followed by South Africa.

    Kenya however has banned the practice, which sees hundreds of lions bagged every year.

    Trophy hunting can generate funds that could help governments deal with problem animals, according to Kate Nicholls, researcher with the Okavango lion conservation project.

    "But that will only be the case if it works in tandem with governmental implementation of stringent responses to illegal shooting," she said.

    "Theoretically, hunting is a fantastic way to preserve very large eco-systems but the practicalities of getting that money to the little guys who are paying the costs is a huge issue," said Laurence Franck, conservation biologist with the Wildlife Conservation Society.

    American expert Craig Packer said it was possible to target older male lions for trophy hunting to minimize the impact on the pride.

    "Our ideas of wildlife come from television, magazines. We see these pretty pictures of mother lions with baby cubs, looks all cute and sweet".

    "But the reality is that lions in Tanzania alone attack over 100 people every year, and they kill over 70 people every year," he said.

    Other than habitat loss, lions are also threatened by the disappearance of wild prey and conflicts with humans.


    Thought I would give you all somthing to debate about before a vanish again. My opinion in that this is the biggest pile of manure I ever read, and can be compared to saying that terrorism will help preserve the human opoulation. Pure garbage.
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  2. #2
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    No... Just no.

    "Hunting is good! Let's kill the old fart lions 'cause they're utterly worthless!"

    That's the vibe I'm getting from here. According to this article, they haven't taken into consideration the reason why the lions hav attacked the people. It's because of the habitat loss, illegal hunting of their prey, and the competition that they for food with the natives. The lion is only doing what instinct has told them to do. True, it's normally the old males or a sickly lion that attack the humans, because they know they're slow and practically defenseless. I say leave the dwindling numbers to their peace. Deal with the habitat loss and the poaching, instead of shooting them "for their safety."

    Oh, and good for Kenya that they banned this.:-)

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    Have you people never heard of culling?

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    Originally posted by Nephilim
    Have you people never heard of culling?
    Yes, I have, but my opinion calls for that it shouldn't be done to an endangered species in the wild.

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    I agree, that's idiotic...trophy hunting in general is sick. Humans are the only species that hunt only for the 'fun' of it, then hang them on their walls.

    "I ask people why they have deer heads on their walls. They always say because it's such a beautiful animal. There you go. I think my mother is attractive, but I have photographs of her."
    ~Ellen DeGeneres

    If we're really such an evolved species we must learn to live in harmony with our fellow animals.

    "Sport hunting" them is not the answer. :vitgrr:

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    Originally posted by Akiko
    I agree, that's idiotic...trophy hunting in general is sick. Humans are the only species that hunt only for the 'fun' of it, then hang them on their walls.

    "I ask people why they have deer heads on their walls. They always say because it's such a beautiful animal. There you go. I think my mother is attractive, but I have photographs of her."
    ~Ellen DeGeneres

    If we're really such an evolved species we must learn to live in harmony with our fellow animals.

    "Sport hunting" them is not the answer. :vitgrr:
    Nice quote, Akiko. Ellen's awesome.

    Actually, animals like house cats hunt for fun. Being domesticated, but still having natural instincts in tact, it's how they keep themselves amused.

    I don't believe in trophy hunting myself. I don't find having dead carcasses on display in my house very attractive.

    ...And yet, this is coming from a girl who has an antique deer head hanging above her fireplace.>> It's not my fault! My dad bought it years ago at an antique show!*shifty eyes then hides in corner*

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    Yeah, I love ellen...heheh, well as ya said, not your fault. It's not as if you hunted it...when I was a just a kid my granma's neighbors had shot a deer. They had it hanging upside down from a tree...my mother and I were driving on the road and when we saw that she almost swerved off the road in horror...it was just so sick.

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    Senior Member Simbaspirit's Avatar
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    thats so mean!! im gonna fly to africa and save them. whose coming with me??

    Avatar drawn by Azerane - thank you! :3

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    I'll spend my life's savings! Let's go!

    While we're at it, let's live among them like that dude on Animal Planet!*doesn't know if she's serious or not*

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    ahaha, we're off to save the lions!

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    The only positive point in that article is mention that Kenya's banned trophy hunting.

    I'd support the practice if hunters could use their hands only.

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    Too true, the use of high-tech guns and weapons makes it extremely wrong. :claw: People are not equip with the natural weapons that predators have.

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    That's 'cause they sacrificed them for sticks, then swords, then guns.

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    Pfft, humans. Never playing fair.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Bahati
    Pfft, humans. Never playing fair.
    But really, who defines what is fair?
    If humans were meant to have claws and/or fangs, we would.
    Nature gives the various creatures on this planet what they need to survive.
    For some animals, it?s claws, for others it?s speed?for humans it?s our capacity to invent things, weaponry, cars, planes, toothpicks and those little hotdogs wrapped in dough...

    But, that aside...
    Traditionally, I'm not really in favor of any kind of trophy hunting...however, I can see their reasoning behind it.

    Endless Night once made an excellent argument in favor of trophy hunting...
    it's good reading and EN knows what she's talking about.
    You can find it here:
    Safari Club International - Page 2
    Her post is the forth post down - "Guest".

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    Originally posted by Bahati
    Pfft, humans. Never playing fair.
    I think Scar's immortal words come into play here.

    A good post by EN that was linked by Wicked. It certainly clears up my misunderstanding and maybe some others, but my personal belief about trophy hunting still stands strong.

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    Originally posted by Simbaspirit
    thats so mean!! im gonna fly to africa and save them. whose coming with me??
    Right behind you

    anywho, this is so stupid... I agree with what Katse originally said, this is really sad i mean do we shoot old people? I think hey need to sort out the more pressing issues like habitat loss... What DB's...

    and yeah, its good that Kenya put a stop to this

    Edit: Ok I still stick with my own opinion on the hunting matter, but there were some good points raised in that post linked. Perhaps they should begin to evenly distribute the lions? So that certain areas aren't over populated... Just an Idea...

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    I fail to see how trophy hunting is good for a species... Seriously. I may not be getting something here, but I do not like any sort of hunting, excluding hunting for food.

    Now I know why I think of Kenya when I hear "Africa". They are the smartsness. Either that, or it's from that weird "lions and tigers Kenya" song...

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Wicked
    But really, who defines what is fair?
    If humans were meant to have claws and/or fangs, we would.
    Nature gives the various creatures on this planet what they need to survive.
    For some animals, it?s claws, for others it?s speed?for humans it?s our capacity to invent things, weaponry, cars, planes, toothpicks and those little hotdogs wrapped in dough...
    Gotta love those little hotdogs.

    Perhaps "fair" is a poor choice of word. "Imbalance" might be more appropriate. Even a cursory glance at what the rest of the animal kingdom's been able to devise tool-wise over millions of years in comparison to what we've accomplished in just the last few centuries suggests strongly that the playing field is far from level. A cheetah runs at great speeds and whales are quite proficient at swimming, but humans can fly faster than sound, travel through the solar system, and inflict unparalleled harm with nuclear weapons.

    Endless Night once made an excellent argument in favor of trophy hunting...
    it's good reading and EN knows what she's talking about.
    Sharp piece of writing with enlightening arguments, but my stance on trophy hunting remains one of opposition. Trophy hunting is still a destructive force--though perhaps a more preferable one--and settling with it is settling with the lesser evil. Consenting to the killing of animals for entertainment is never acceptable.

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    Semi-unrelated, but have you ever heard of the Man-eating Lions of Tsavo? At Chicago's Field Museum they have the bodies of the lions preseverved; they're massive... there's a whole story behind them, and I bought a great souvenir, a small book written in 1925 or so by the guy who actually ended up killing both of them... terrific tale, could be made into a novel, but it remains an "account."

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