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Thread: Evolution

  1. #21
    Member Twilight_Sparkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utora View Post
    I seriously began to question what would motivate any cell or being into evolution.
    I don't understand. Why would something needed to be motivated to evolve?

    I read, close to California in the 70's there was this slab on the side of a mountain showing, in great detail layer of crusts which was evidence of things through time. There was an earthquake that caused this layer formation to thrust up more exposing a tree. This tree was embedded in several layers at once. Obviously the tree didn't exist over billions of years, it'd been trapped in some lava and sediment in one event. There have also been records of TRex prints, a smilodan and a man's footprints in one river bed. All three existing at the same point in time, paralleled? Probably not, but that's just the point, there's these methods that don't prove anything to me honestly.
    You're referencing some rather shady examples against evolution (I believe the t-rex thing was shown to be a hoax). When talking about so called polystrate fossils (the tree through several layers), I am not convinced that any such fossils mean anything until it can be demonstrated that polystrate fossils discredit dating methods without being the result of rapid sedimentation or some sort of salt withdrawal. Whatever sources your're getting this information from is misleading you...
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  2. #22
    Senior Member shadowland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    I am a supporter of Evolution, as it's a proven scientific concept tied to the lives of every living organism on this planet. And very likely the entire universe.

    Intelligent Design can go drown itself in acid, it's not even worth being called psudo-science.
    This guy pretty much said it for me
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  3. #23
    Junior Member saitenyo's Avatar
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    It's not a matter of "support" or "belief" for me. It sounds silly to say that because that would be like saying "I support the fact that the Earth orbits the sun." Evolution exists. It happens. As someone else already said, unlike the colloquial definition of "theory" in science, a theory refers to an explanation which organizes a group of facts supported by evidence.

    I think part of the problem is people uninformed on the topic so frequently view evolution as this mysterious historical event that created the modern world and stopped once it was all done. That's not what it is. It's simply a biological process that is still happening today. Arguing that it's not supported by enough evidence and citing only fossils as that "questionable" evidence neglects the fact that we can observe evolution happening in the modern day world.

    The fact that we have dogs, descended from wolves (and a similar experiment performed recently with domestication of foxes)? That's evolution!

    Evolution is simply genetic changes occurring over time in a species (or series of generational species) as a result of mutation and/or selective pressures (be they natural selection or human-controlled selection). It is a fact that this happens and anyone who denies this is, I'm sorry, just plain wrong. There are piles of proof.

    The part that people bicker and debate about, that is more hypotheses and assumptions based on available evidence than observable fact, is simply what paths evolution has historically taken. We already know evolution happens, we can observe this today, but we must rely on fossils and an understanding of DNA to figure out how it shaped life in the past and produced the species we see today.

    Some of this we have very strong evidence for, thanks to a very complete fossil record or the ability to trace mitochondrial DNA. We have a decent enough fossil record and understanding of human DNA to know a number of earlier hominid forms, but scientists are still debating about precise lineage and chronology, especially since new fossils are uncovered that add pieces to the puzzle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Utora View Post
    In college they lectured how spiders previously could not make a web but then learned to do this. I seriously began to question what would motivate any cell or being into evolution.
    It's not so much a matter of motivation, but selective pressures. The spiders weren't consciously motivated to learn new things out of nowhere. The way evolution works is some species is born with a genetic mutation, maybe even a slight one, that gives it an advantage over other members of its species. Because it is more skilled at survival thanks to this tiny change, it will produce more offspring and possibly even outcompete its less-adapted brethren. It has more chances to pass on its changed genetic code, until the species is made up more of that new DNA rather than the old, less successful DNA.

    The mutation part is a matter of chance. As far as we know, mutations happen at random as gene-copy mistakes. Most of them are neutral, some are harmful, and some are helpful. Its those helpful mutations that spur great changes in the evolutionary process.

    You say you don't think things are evolving or ever have...I'm not sure how you can say that when we have observable examples in the present day. Here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_Silver_Fox

    I get the impression this just isn't a topic you've ever done very much reading on, and you've just dismissed it at face value without studying further to try to answer your questions or confusion, which is unfortunate.

    I think you would benefit greatly from doing a little reading through this: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/
    It's an index of various claims and misconceptions about evolution, providing answers to them, with citations to articles, studies, and scientific journals. Everything you've asked so far can be found in there. For example:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC101.html
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC332.html
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC332_2.html
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC335.html

    I fully support the notion of people being skeptical and not just blindly buying into something (even a supported scientific concept) at face value. But I have a real problem with how often people dismiss a concept without actually learning about it in detail first. How can you say you don't believe in something when you haven't studied it to nearly the degree of detail as those who do believe in it? Could it not just be that the concept doesn't make sense to you because you don't know enough about it to fully understand it?

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Azerane's Avatar
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    ^I'm sure you are right in that a lot of people, simply don't accept evolution as correct because they just don't know enough about it. Or simply because they just don't want to accept it, no matter how right it is. I agree with you though, evolution does happen, is happening, will always happen. What you are talking about with the foxes, is more selective, but it is essentially an accelerated human-selected form of evolution.

    I think a lot of the problem lays with the fact that when people think of evolution, they think slime to human. You can't think about it like that. It's little changes over such a long period of time, that at the time, they would hardly be noticed but over longer periods of time they make great changes.
    That which you manifest is before you.

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