I know this has probably already been asked before..

[Huma]

Snowy: it's so GREAT to have your analytic voice around here (it scares nowadays),=) but just you know : a Discovery Channel interviewed zoologist openly commented that the producer of TLK are completely studyless of the lion prides. He said that in real lions, such insurrection as Scar did to his brother is the most improbable since single male lions without their coalition will seldomly success in defending their pride from forces with two or more male lions. So, anyway, if the makers of TLK ever considered these unsolved questions, it has the least chance that they think it in realistic way. Not a obscuration to your theory though.

Hope you come here more often

[starlioness]

Originally posted by Huma
what a great art, did you make it?
it's the most lovely to see horrent fur on sarabi's back.

if I did, i'd probably know why the bugs where there .

props to Tiiniuw for the great pic ..

[Aurelian]

Thank's for the link Snowy! I never heard of this series, and now understand some stuff better.

[Snowy]

Originally posted by Huma
a Discovery Channel interviewed zoologist openly commented that the producer of TLK are completely studyless of the lion prides. He said that in real lions, such insurrection as Scar did to his brother is the most improbable since single male lions without their coalition will seldomly success in defending their pride from forces with two or more male lions.

What Discovery Channel program was this? And here I'd thought I caught all of their lion/Africa documentaries.

Anyway, the zoologist is right, of course, about "treason" within coalitions being exceedingly rare, if not downright unknown. It'd be counterproductive to go off and kill your fellow coalition members. However, single males must have some success at holding prides, since I've seen instances of only one male commanding a territory. It's unlikely, sure, and these lone warriors might have only been exceedingly lucky in not having coalitions of mature males challenging them during their two year tenure, but they do exist.

So, anyway, if the makers of TLK ever considered these unsolved questions, it has the least chance that they think it in realistic way. Not a obscuration to your theory though.

Well, I wouldn't say that. The directors did say at the tenth anniversary that, going on real lion behavior, Nala's father would most likely be Scar or Mufasa. So, they do know about real lions, they just chose to subvert certain aspects thereof in the interest of dramatic storytelling. Unfortunately, I think there are biologists who, in their vigor to make certain that folks know that, no, TLK is not accurately representative of lion behavior, forget that creative license allows for such informed tweaking and that not all instances of contradiction are automatically the result of ignorance.

And all around. You guys are too nice, and you let me ramble on for hours.

[Huma]

What Discovery Channel program was this? And here I'd thought I caught all of their lion/Africa documentaries.

It's "The Ultimate Guide:Big Cats", I will check in detail who said what and post here later. And hey, I got only two DC programs about lions
. another is Wild Discovery:The Lions Share, what do you get?

think there are biologists who, in their vigor to make certain that folks know that, no, TLK is not accurately representative of lion behavior, forget that creative license allows for such informed tweaking and that not all instances of contradiction are automatically the result of ignorance.

omg, am i gonna be one of them? no!!!*changing program* it certainly remind me of someone

TOO!!!

[Snowy]

Originally posted by Huma
It's "The Ultimate Guide:Big Cats", I will check in detail who said what and post here later. And hey, I got only two DC programs about lions
. another is Wild Discovery:The Lions Share, what do you get?

Ah, I think I remember seeing that. It's been a couple years, though, no doubt about it. Pretty sure I've seen "The Lion's Share", too, as it sounds familiar, but I could be mistaken.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the titles of various documentaries all too well. And it just gets more confusing because there used to be a lot of cross-over between Animal Planet's documentaries and Discovery Channel's. And then there's National Geographic and some of the public broadcast shows. As a result, what titles I do remember I can't vouch for what channel/program I saw them on. Some of the NG ones are obvious to remember -- "Lions of Darkness", "Eternal Enemies", "Ultimate Enemies" (narrated by Jeremy Irons, no less!) -- because they're all by the same photographers (the Jouberts, who also have a book, Hunting with the Moon, through NG). About the only non-NG title I remember offhand, though, is "The Lion Queen". :Ohno:

omg, am i gonna be one of them? no!!!*changing program* it certainly remind me of someone

I doubt it. The biologist types I'm thinking of are kind of the stereotypical scientist. You know, the ones that just don't "get" things like literature or art? Those are the types I'd think most likely of immediately assuming that creative license is the same as ignorance of the facts. Though, sometimes, they have a point. I can think of a few movies that stretch the whole "creative license" and "suspension of disbelief" concepts a tad thin. Every disaster film I've ever seen, for instance.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

My personal theory on the Nala/father situation is that Sarafina was pregnant when she joined the pride and Sarabi took her under her wing and they became friends. As to why Sarafina was chosen as the mother of the future Queen that is still open to debate.

Is it just me, or does Sarafina seem much younger than Sarabi? Anyway, I digress...

[Ralli]

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
My personal theory on the Nala/father situation is that Sarafina was pregnant when she joined the pride and Sarabi took her under her wing and they became friends. As to why Sarafina was chosen as the mother of the future Queen that is still open to debate.

Is it just me, or does Sarafina seem much younger than Sarabi? Anyway, I digress...

That's what I've always thought.

[Nalinda]

Originally posted by Huma
Snowy: it's so GREAT to have your analytic voice around here (it scares nowadays),=) but just you know : a Discovery Channel interviewed zoologist openly commented that the producer of TLK are completely studyless of the lion prides. He said that in real lions, such insurrection as Scar did to his brother is the most improbable since single male lions without their coalition will seldomly success in defending their pride from forces with two or more male lions. So, anyway, if the makers of TLK ever considered these unsolved questions, it has the least chance that they think it in realistic way. Not a obscuration to your theory though.

Hope you come here more often

I very DISAGREE :disagree: with that zoologist!
He seems to think he know all the things about all the prides. You see, The Lion King needed a story. And got one. A very selling and good one.
Do that (excuse me) dumb zoologist have to always destroy the story about Scar and Mufasa and all that? Cant they just keep it as it is?
And do he know how a lion in Mufasas situation would act against Scar and vice-verca?
Have he asked the lions in a pride? I really dont think SO! :mad:
Really, that zoologist have just been studing some prides and looking to the statistic. And that what happened in TLK cant be compared to the statistic because its a very unusual pride-happening. But IT can happen.. He dont know what every male lion would do.. He cant say it is that way he explains.

Really disagree.. really.

:disagree:

[va-kasi]

I suppose you're right Nalinda

Any zoologist's would say that lions would kill they're prey, but what about that lionesses who adopted all those young antelope dudes. (sorry, can't remember the species!)

[Nalinda]

Yeah.. I agree with you va-kasi.

And.. the zoologists seems to think they no absolutely everything about how lions act and what they do if that and that would happen in the pride. They cant say so. Because.. Every lion is individual! And I dont think that they know exactly what the lions think.
And do they always have to destroy some films because they wanna broke Disneys theorys and stories!
I think we must have a couple of new zoologists! Well, change a few of them. Especially those who think they know everything. I can tell you, they dont.. And ever wont.
Its always new things to discover of an art of animals...
Its great that it is many good zoologists who is working with lions.
But.. this one that was on this program.. Can keep his mouth shut against the public.. because he really dont know how it is. He havent asked the lions for gods sake how they would act in each situation..
And in the TLK pride happening.. you cant compare with the statistic. Because... this happening was now statistic!

Haha.. Im going crazy of zoologists who think they now everything.. Especially that one on that program. He can keep his mouth shut.. Disagreeeeeee.. :mad: :disagree:

Though this.. Im thinking about becoming a lion zoologist, im thinking about it. Because.. it seems really interesting and funny! :Ooo:

[Ralli]

That bugs me what that zoologist said. I'm a realist, but I know how to tell when a movie about animals is usually more focused on the story and characters than how the animals act in real life. :huh: They're more based on humans than animals...ooh, what's her name? The lady who put TLKoB together? She said that the story is basically a human tale portrayed through animals. I think the folks who put the movie together mostly watched how the animals acted and moved so they could portray their actions reasonably realistically and didn't really focus on how the lions interact in a pride.

But what the zoologist said sort of amuses me...he seems really irritated by how the lion pride acts and doesn't even address how Simba happened to be raised for most of his life by animals he'd eat in regular circumstances. Among many other unrealistic happenings.

[Nalinda]

I agree with you in some parts Ralli..

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

Who's to say one of the brothers wouldn't have aspirations of leading the pride alone? ...apart from that zoologist obviously...

There are a lot of traits that humans share with animals and vice-versa, I know for a fact jealousy exists in animals - just have to look at my pet cats! Just because it's not normally the way lions operate doesn't mean it couldn't happen, almost anythings possible in nature...after all it makes its own rules! Different species of animals have adopted each other's orphans on many occaisions both in zoos and in the wild, so even the Timon/Pumbaa/Simba combination could potentially be possible.

If you look at the film in that way there's not many things that could be called completely unrealistic...apart from possibly flyin' fightin' 'Fiki!

[Shatara]

I agree that said zoologist needs to be told the meaning of 'anthromorphism'...

At the same time, the point he was trying to make seems to have been lost.

I agree that animals share many (if not all) emotions with humans, but the concepts of 'ruling' or 'leading' are social, not emotional. They simply do not exist in lion society. The lack of such social concepts (succession and marriage are good additional examples) are why TLK could never happen in Real Life(TM).

Conclusion: Mr Zoologist was right in explaining how it couldn't happen, and wrong in faulting TLK's writers on it.

[W-Eyed-Wanderer]

Well the basic idea of ruling a pride exists, even if the concept of ruling over all animals doesn't. If you were to concentrate on the leonine aspect of the film, as SP made an attempt to, and ignore the idea of ruling elephants and gazelle and such it is more feasible. Although this removes much of the point of the story...I obviously don't believe it could all happen but quite a few of the individual parts of the film might. It's just that most of them would be very rare if they ever did happen...still, stranger things have!

Of course, Scar would have fought Mufasa and not thrown him off a cliff, the chances of hyena ever joining a pride of lions is about as likely as flying Mandrills and Nala would have been killed when Scar took over...

Ignoring that: at the end of the day it's a great story, and that's all it is - it was never meant to be a nature film; I have to agree with your closing statement Shatara.

[Kiara Serengeti]

Huh, if Scar was Nala's father then Simba was Nala's cousin because Scar was Mufasa's brother and Simba was Mufasa's son.

I think even the Disney producers would have seen this, not that little kids would ...I think Nala's father was somebody else....hmmm...

[Nalinda]

Yeah.. I think so too Kiara.. Who could it be? I think sarafina was pregnant when she came to the pride..

[Lion_King_300]

Tough question! I subscribe to the "Rogue Lion" theory myself. I immediately ruled out Mufasa, that would be incest to the highest degree, I highly doubt that nature would allow that to occur in the animal kingdom, being that Nala and Simba were "destined" to become King and Queen.

I used to consider Scar for Nala's paternity because then Nala would still have royal blood, but I discounted it for two reasons: First Nala and Scar look nothing alike, and second in the Broadway production, we all know Scar displays his intentions of mating with Nala, which he obviously wouldn't do if she was his daugher. (although he WAS "mad")

I think the "Sarafina was pregnant" approach is perfectly feasible because that does happen, however rarely.

But then again, how would Nala be arranged to be wed to Simba if Sarafina was impregnated by a rogue/a lion not belonging to the pride? That doesn't make much sense, but no one seemed to have have any reservations against Kovu and Kiara getting together in TLK II after everything got peaceful.

I don't think there is a final answer to this question, I guess all we can do is formulate our own opinions and keep in mind that it is a story and probably not meant to be read into this deeply. But that's part of the fun... mwahaha!

?? :fini: ?? ?? ?? :-)

[Shatara]

But then again, how would Nala be arranged to be wed to Simba if Sarafina was impregnated by a rogue/a lion not belonging to the pride?

Am I the only one who think that's a perfect reason in itself for Simba and Nala to be betrothed...?