Taka versus Scar

[Snowy]

*delurking*

Sharifu's correct that Taka comes from The Lion King: Six New Adventures (TLK6NA). Also, like Sharifu, I found my set on eBay (sweet, sweet, addictive eBay). It should be noted, though, that MehndiX was kind enough to scan and upload the whole set onto her site -- http://www.nala.at -- for those who have not been so lucky as to find and purchase it. You have to register to view the site, but that registration is free.

Coincidentally, taka does not just mean "rubbish, trash, etc." It also means such abstract and unrelated things as "bolt of calico cloth". There are also the verb meanings of "to ask" and "to wish". My personal favorite is the verb taka shari, meaning "to defy, to challenge". Granted, the translation given in TLK6NA was that of "garbage", but I imagine that was at least in part so as not to confuse the kiddies with more...thought-provoking translations.

The fanfic Leo_the_Lion is referring to is "Pride Lands Generations" or "TLK Generations" (or something to similar effect, I can't recall it precisely off the top of my head), if I'm not mistaken. In the interest of stemming any misconceptions, Disney has only gone back as far as Mohatu (from the read-along book The Brightest Star), so any earlier "ancestors" are purely fan speculation.

Also, since I've seen the mistake a lot. Ahadi's queen is Uru, not Akase. Both Ahadi and Uru come from TLK6NA, while Akase was created by none other than Brian Tiemann for his fanfic "The Pride". The name was picked up and used in "Chronicles of the Pride Lands" (CotPL), from where it gained wide circulation. Similarly, Tanabi as Simba's son is a fan name that has gained wide circulation via CotPL. As Sharifu pointed out, Simba's son is Kopa.

It's probably also worth a mention that Ahadi's design is rather...debatable. In the text, he's described as being black-maned and green-eyed; yet in the illustrations, he's a Mufasa clone. I actually prefer the latter, myself, but that's another discussion entirely.

Lastly, I think, something needs to be said regarding the Taka-Scar debate. That is, there are those who vehemently swear by one name or the other only. In such instances, Taka is seen as the "sweet, good, innocent" side while Scar is, well, Scar. Many a flame war has been fought on these grounds. Ironically, this dichotomy of character is derived from his depiction in CotPL -- TLK6NA's Taka is by no means a wide-eyed innocent but a bitter, reproachful adolescent.

To which point, I do believe I've put in more than my fair two cents.

[Naline]

Thats a great pic of Nala on the signup page!!! I've signed up and unfortunately can't find the stories??? Maybe i've done something wrong!!!

And thanks for the analyisis Snowy, you've cleared up a few points.....for me at least!!!

But i think it makes Scar a bit more interesting if Taka was sweet and nice as a cub/adolescent because it shows that he has spiralled into madness throughout adulthood via jealousy, greed and lust for power etc......all things that could so easily have shown themselves in later life if there was something in childhood that sparked them off. A sweet, nice, sensitive type of person could easily be jolted into disarray from seemingly insignificant events (such as getting the scar, or being picked last to play tag when they were cubs, always being made to feel second best to muffy etc etc), whereas the strong minded, prominant Mufasa would have shrugged it off and got on with things.

So in conclusion, i don't like to think of Taka as a scheming, nasty person......i prefere to think of Taka as a good brother to Mufasa but he lost his grip on reality and on his conscience and became the Scar we know today!!!

[kcnmttcnn]

The stories are under Images --> TLK Books

[Ngatuny]

Well once you log in, go to the download section click on images, then go to the book section and there is where you can find them. The only thing is that you can only download a few images per day so it will take several days to download all six books.

[Naline]

Thanks buddy, but it wont let me log in, i just come up as a guest all the time and it wont let me access anything on the site!!! very annoying!!!

[Ngatuny]

Well I have the books and could start scanning them if you want them, and I find a place to up load them.

[unregistered user]

Thanks for the help! Found it!

[Huma]

Originally posted by Naline
Thats a great pic of Nala on the signup page!!! I've signed up and unfortunately can't find the stories??? Maybe i've done something wrong!!!

And thanks for the analyisis Snowy, you've cleared up a few points.....for me at least!!!

But i think it makes Scar a bit more interesting if Taka was sweet and nice as a cub/adolescent because it shows that he has spiralled into madness throughout adulthood via jealousy, greed and lust for power etc......all things that could so easily have shown themselves in later life if there was something in childhood that sparked them off. A sweet, nice, sensitive type of person could easily be jolted into disarray from seemingly insignificant events (such as getting the scar, or being picked last to play tag when they were cubs, always being made to feel second best to muffy etc etc), whereas the strong minded, prominant Mufasa would have shrugged it off and got on with things.

So in conclusion, i don't like to think of Taka as a scheming, nasty person......i prefere to think of Taka as a good brother to Mufasa but he lost his grip on reality and on his conscience and became the Scar we know today!!!

Well analyze, seems you've read CotPL.

[Naline]

Which is quite a feat considering the length.............so i've heard

[unregistered user]

Yeah, I like the way Taka is in the beginning then he just snaps because of a curse not caused by his brother or anyone else...well maybe rafiki hehe...

This i get from CotPl

[Naline]

AHA!! Its rafiki and his menacing stick that's causing all the problems?!?!?!!!

[Mushroom]

Yeah Ngatuny! That would be soo cool!

[Huma]

Rafiki is just a fuze. the curse became an excuse for Taka to flinch and have others' pity. The CotPL shows how fear and pain lead to crime as well as the ambition and greedy. That is how I like it.

[Snowy]

Naline: I believe there's an email you can contact if you're having trouble signing in. So, if all else fails, you might want to try that.

Having read TLK6NA and attempted reading both versions of CotPL, I can say honestly that I prefer TLK6NA's version of the characters and story, and not just because it's the canon. Scar as portrayed in CotPL never meshed well with what I saw in the film -- in fact, few of the characters did --, which is in large part why I could never really get through all of CotPL. The newer version was better, admittedly, but it still felt...wrong.

In TLK6NA, yes, Taka is bitter, but at the same time he shows a naivety that I was surprised Disney would even consider for any of their villains, let alone someone like Scar, and especially not in what is essentially a children's story. In fact, it's a character trait that I can find most readily in the films in Kiara of all people, Miss Naive herself. That is, Taka places a lot of value in promises and it is Ahadi's consistent breaking of those promises (in a nice play of sophistication, by the by, ahadi is Swahili for "promise") that seems to be a catalyst for Taka's decline into bitterness and, ultimately, hatred. This is largely why "A Tale of Two Brothers" is my favorite book in the set: The language may be simple, but the story itself is not. It would adapt well with only minor changes into a more "adult" format. Or, perhaps I just read more into it than most. I've been known to overanalyze, after all.

[unregistered user]

Chronicles of the Pridelands By David Morris and John B.(A friend of mine) said the scar was the work of Honey Badger, after the kids believed the fancy tale of a white lioness Misasha have magic powers to grant people(or lion) wishes. Muffy actually went after the "White" badger, thinking anything white can grant wishes... oy. He kinda encouraged Taka to went into the nest and then got the slash, almost gurged his eye out.

Hence he got the scar, and the name Scar was given to him after his failure attempt of venturing into the Big World (outside of the pride) to avoid always being in the shadow of his brother.

The author, John said he'd like to give Scar some "alternative" personalities. He's evil, yes, but everyone is born innocent, he'd been pushed to his extreme that drove him that way. And EVEN in his infamous rules did he show the real passion and love towards a stranger and her cub.

Took me a while to understand the whole story, a great one tho.

[Huma]

Seems question come to "who should be responsiable for Taka's decline."

The Taka's decline is only the theme of first half of first part of CotPL. The CotPL eventually imputed it to supernatural beings as Makei. The whole story of CotPL alluded to THE LEONINE STORY, in which mentioned inherent confliction in the lifecycle. The author's conception of whole story changed, in my point of view, after completion of the "The Spirit Quest." They added supernatural elements in Taka's behavior and make him as a part of a huge battle upon the Pride Land. It totally overstep the original TLK universe, and by doing so, lose comparability with TLK6NA. I think the most reason of people who didn't like CotPL is that they used standard of original TLK to evaluate CotPL. I'd rather appreciate it as a independent story.

[Snowy]

*looks around* No one's given the TLK6NA version of how Taka got his scar yet, have they? No? 'K then.

Short answer: Cape buffalo.

Long, laborious, and probably at times tangential, Snowy answer :
To throw this in perspective, this starts a couple scenes prior to the actual acquisition of the wound.
The Pride Lands are in a drought and the animals of the kingdom are feeling the strains -- emotionally, if nothing else. Ahadi is presented with a number of problems, including the hyenas (yes, our infamous trio) running amok. There's also the issue of one Boma, a large ornery Cape buffalo who has appropriated the last usable waterhole and refuses to let anyone near it. Ahadi determines to deal with the hyenas first, at which point Taka (who we later learn is already working with the trio by this time; there's a nice little interplay later that hints a bit as to how that association started) cuts in reminding Ahadi that he had promised to take the brothers on a hunting outing. For the good of the kingdom (now, where's the irony in that, I wonder?), Ahadi has to break that promise. Taka will have nothing of it, effectively accusing his father of, if not neglect, then at least favoritism, a fact that is driven home when Ahadi tries to reason with him by pointing out that Mufasa seems to understand. Before the family tiff can progress further, the gathered throng of Pridelanders cuts in. Ahadi tries quietly to appeal to his younger son one final time and, while Taka backs off, he clearly has neither forgotten nor forgiven. His suggestion that he and Mufasa go hunting together instead is a cover for his anger.
Here, Taka excuses himself, claiming to need to do something before he and Mufasa set off. What he needs to do, as it turns out, is have a chat with Shenzi, Banzai, and Ed. Initially, his plans are to simply upstage Mufasa by bringing home the bigger kill. However, Shenzi (she always was the smartest of the hyenas) suggests actively humiliating Mufasa in the eyes of the kingdom, and Taka ultimately runs with the idea.
What results is him and Mufasa going to have a word with Boma, under the pretense of helping Ahadi. Of course, what Taka has more in mind is getting the Cape buffalo and his brother to fight, thus earning Mufasa Ahadi's disapproval. I don't think it ever occurs to Taka that this could get his brother killed -- the plan is rather simply to have him get in trouble, after all, and nothing more. Personally, I get the impression that if things had turned lethal, Taka would have been horrified. His animosity seems to be directed more towards Ahadi than Mufasa, with his brother getting the fall-out by way of association. But, I digress. Mufasa, pursued by Boma, runs like the dickens, ultimately duping Boma into a shallow ravine.
All the while, Taka is laughing it up back at the waterhole. The trickster's about to trip over his own cleverness, though: He forgot that Cape buffalo run in herds. In short order, a few of Boma's fellows descend upon him. One catches him with a horn and Taka goes down. There's a rather touching display of brotherly devotion on Mufasa's part here as, outnumbered and clearly digging in for a fight he'd ultimately lose, he gets between the buffalo and his felled brother. Kind of a pity Taka's unconscious and so can't see Mufasa risking his life for him. Lucky for the two of them, Ahadi enters just then backed by a good number of other animals, including elephants. The buffalo stand down, Boma is helped out of the ravine, and Taka is carried (by elephant) back to Pride Rock.
Favorite scene coming up here, so beware of expounding. When Taka comes around, Rafiki tells him that he'll carry a scar for the rest of his life, at which Ahadi says it should remind him of how foolish he was that day. Mufasa is a bit more concerned with the present, wanting to know why his brother had provoked Boma. The answer? Surprisingly straight-forward, actually: To humiliate Mufasa and get back at Ahadi for breaking his promise earlier. Ahadi again takes the learning experience approach, pointing out that Taka wound up hurting himself instead and then going on to tell him that he's got to learn to let go of his anger. There's something in Ahadi's wording here that makes me wonder. Taka's response is somewhat predictable in that at first he gets clearly angry, but I can't help but think that he's perhaps reading something extra into his father's admonition that Ahadi hadn't intended to be there. That is, taken the wrong way, Ahadi could have just told Taka that the fact that he got injured didn't hurt either Ahadi or Mufasa. I can practically guarantee that that's not what Ahadi meant, but I can easily see Taka twisting the meaning that way. Regardless, Taka again hides his anger and, in what everyone takes as a sign of good faith, changes his name to Scar so as not to forget what happened that day. In fact, he promises in as much. And we know how that ultimately manifests.

And that's TLK6NA's version.

I should note: It doesn't bother me if people prefer a fanfic's scenario over the canon. It perplexes me to no end, but it doesn't necessarily bother me. What bothers me is when the fanfic is presented as canon. When fanfics and/or ideas contained within fanfics are presented as canon or generally gain wide acceptance, you get what is known as fanon (fan-canon). Fanon is not inherently bad, mind, just potentially confusing. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to correct people who assume Tanabi is Simba's canonical son, for example, because they don't know the name's origins and see it in a large number of fics. Once you lose track of how many times you've had to dispell fanon, it becomes a pet peeve to so much as catch a whiff of anything associated with it. Hence, I suppose, why I can sometimes seem a bit...snippish when CotPL comes up. So much fanon stems from that, through no fault of the authors other than that they made something so large and well-received that many readers took it very much to heart. Kudos to them for it, too. It's just, I'm not one of those people who holds it at equal or higher value than the canon and so I can get frustrated when I run into those who do.
For the record, Leviathan did a fine job presenting CotPL, first and foremost by prefacing it with the fact that it is a fanfiction. Thank you for that. You make this cantankerous canon-thumping white wolf happy.
And Huma, you make an excellent point about CotPL's standing among those who, like myself, aren't all that fond of it. It doesn't mesh well with TLK and therein lies why I had trouble getting through the revised version and never managed to get through the first. However, had it been handled as an original, independent work instead of a fanfic, I'm quite certain I would have enjoyed it more.

Lastly, so long as we're still generally on the topic of how Scar got his scar, I remember that a favored theory for a time (I believe it's fallen somewhat out of fashion now, as it were) was that he got it from Sarabi after, well, ah, let's just say his smooth talking doesn't always charm the ladies. This, if I remember correctly, began in Christine Morgan's fanfic "A Matter of Pride," which is not something the younger crowd should read but is well-written, none the less. The general idea's appeared in more kid-friendly fics since then, including Brian Tiemann's "The Pride". For sake of reference for those unfamiliar with either, just think "The Madness of King Scar" (MoKS) but substitute in Sarabi for Nala and correct for time. That'll work. An off-shoot of this theory had Mufasa giving Scar his namesake instead of Sarabi, but pretty much for the same reasons.
Coincidentally, and perhaps it's where Ms. Morgan drew her inspiration from, there was during TLK's production the idea that Scar should ask Sarabi to be his queen, with Sarabi refusing (again, think MoKS, but Sarabi instead of Nala). Though it would have drawn more Hamlet parallels, the scene was dropped as being too intense for the children. As a footnote's further footnote, both Sarabi and Scar's entries in the Encyclopedia of Walt Disney's Animated Characters (an official Disney publication) state that the film at least implies that Sarabi became Scar's queen. Of course, this was published before SP's release, so take that as you will.

And I think I've said more than enough for one night. Snowy out.

[Huma]

[wipe away sweat], finshed, [pant], I'd be more careful [pant] to follow your post [pant] next time.

No kidding, surprisingly wide knowledge of either fanfic or fanon(Is that termed by you?), tho I'm not familiar with your quotings, that MoKS authentically worked well.

Since I've never read TLK6NA and you do have read The CotPL no matter how much, the conclusion is always yours. For my personal attitude, basically, I don't care either it is cannon or fanfic. A work that is as huge as TLK is necessarily, in some degree, out of author's control and live with its own life. Both cannon or fanfic are possibilities. Whichever you prefer as the story in your view, there's nothing right or wrong.

Glad to see your discussion, especially the part about TLK6NA, It's really attractive and helpful. After all, It is your fault to make me impatient before I can get the book.

[Snowy]

Heh, I should include warnings with my posts. In other forums people are familiar enough with me to know that I can post literally pages on a topic...often all at once.

Anyway, no, I can't take credit for the term "fanon," despite how often I find myself using it. I saw it in one of fanfic.net's columns. *digs around* This one in fact. The term itself seems to be common within certain circles (the fanfic writer's circuit in particular, or so the columnist claims), but beyond that I couldn't tell you where it originally comes from. As per the column itself, it's an interesting read, if nothing else. It fairly well sums up why I'm typically quick to separate canon and fanon in discussions like this.

To which, even "canon" has its varying definitions and intensities.
In the broad sense, "canon" only comes from the company of origin -- in TLK's case, Disney. That's why I view TLK6NA as canon and thus of greater consideration and weight than even the most well-written fanfiction: It's Disney-sanctioned material (never mind that they seem to have disavowed all knowledge of its existence following SP's release), and actually of rather high-quality at that when you consider that it's still essentially a children's book.
More narrowly, "canon" could mean only the films. Some fandoms have published novels that actually expand upon the universe and not just rehash the movie/show (Star Wars and Star Trek both come to mind here). Within these fandoms and with this particular interpretation of canon, only the films/shows would be seen as canon while the novels and other printed works are but sanctioned fanfiction (which, for TLK, would make the prevalence of TLK6NA's prequel names -- Ahadi and Taka most especially -- as much fanon as anything else).
Even more narrowly, "canon" may only apply to dramatic story installments or elements. For TLK, that would mean the recent 1.5 would be Disney-sanctioned, animated fan-humor, but not canon in any but the most distant way (which, honestly, makes it easier to accept some of the irreverance and scene changes).
It gets narrower still, with only works coming from at least the original writers being considered canon. Since a couple members of TLK's production crew helped with expanding upon TLK for TLKoB, the musical would be grouped with the canon, but SP would not (more than once I've heard SP referred to as "an animated fanfiction").
And then there are those who only see the original film as canon and that's the end of that, with everything else being fancy treatments of fanfiction.

So, depending upon how one chooses to define "canon," any given fanfic may or may not cause conflict with it. This is particularly true when you get various canonical sources contradicting one another, and so personal fan preference steps in. For example, while reconciling TLK6NA and SP is not wholly impossible, it does take a bit of work, especially where Kopa is concerned. Similarly, there are two different Disney versions for how Zazu became majordomo: One provided in TLK6NA and the other in the Goldenbook Friends in Need. Both are technically canon, yet invariably you're going to have to choose one over the other as the "truth."

And then there are the stickier things, the bits-and-pieces of any given potential canon source (that is, in this case, anything from Disney). I'll admit, there are parts of TLK6NA that do not work well for me, for all that I'm otherwise quite pleased with the set. These I try to ignore as best I can, so as not to cause me undue grief. In particular, one of the books has a couple extra adult males living with the pride. The films and real lion behavior contradict this, so I consider it a flub and not to be taken as canon. Similarly, the discrepancy in Ahadi's appearance between the text and the illustrations I choose to ignore in favor of the illustrated design, feeling as I do that that one's better backed by other aspects of the canon.

That sort of variability and freedom of interpretation can provide wonderful opportunities for expanding creatively upon the canon, whatever you may decide it to be for you. It is the old double-edged sword, however, in that such a fluid and sometimes contradictory canon can potentially spark divisive factions -- the Taka-Scar debacles being a case in point right there, for all that fanon factors into it. "Live and let live," eh?

Glad to see your discussion, especially the part about TLK6NA, It's really attractive and helpful. After all, It is your fault to make me impatient before I can get the book.

Heh, now you've got me worried that I've sung its praises too much and you'll be disappointed. :badnews: Make no mistake, it has errors in it and there are those that despise it as vehemently as they do SP or 1.5. Take it for what it is, first and foremost: A literary sequel (and occasional prequel and "interquel") from before Disney animated such things, true, but like its animated counterparts it is designed to entertain the kids. It merely has the added advantage of not making the parents want to gouge their eyes out when they're enlisted to read the prerequisite bedtime story. Though, in truth, I have yet to determine if the third book, "Vulture Shock," succeeded in this last. Two words: Rapping vultures. You heard me. Be afraid. Be very afraid. "Upendi" might just look more tolerable once you've seen that.

For reference, then, TLK6NA lines up for me as, from best to worst in the set:
Book one, "A Tale of Two Brothers"
Book two, "Nala's Dare"
Book five, "Follow the Leader"
Book six, "How True, Zazu?"
Book four, "A Snake in the Grass"
Book three, "Vulture Shock"
That's also Snowy's guide to what you should shell your money out for if you find only an incomplete set (or individual books) on eBay.

And once again I've probably gone on far longer than necessary. I should really learn how to be less verbose and more concise.

[Sadiki]

I like your post. Even thoes are long but after all inside of text need all thoes words. so keep going
*hugs snowy*