Sure, and I could say that the majority of people against gay marriage are Christians, but that doesn't mean it's equally right for me to say "Christians are against gay marriage." You weren't even bothering to suggest you were only referring to radicals, you were just outright saying "liberals" as if you were referring to the majority, or liberals in general.
Well, I did this because I don't believe the liberals that hold this point of view make up a minority of the group as a whole. I don't believe they are the "radicals". I believe they make up large enough of a portion to not have to differentiate them as being a minority. Also...to clarify things...I do not mean that liberals are completely against the idea of religion...but rather they are against the public display of it. I think that a majority of the leadership, and people who classify themselves as liberal hold this point of view. I could be wrong of course. Maybe it isn't the majority...but from my experience, and from the direction in which the actual democratic party is going...I don't think it is weird or outrageous to classify those that are part of that party as followers of that party's ideals.

So, since some Christians in the past have supported stoning gays, stoning gays must be a Christian idea, right?
Well...technically you could classify it as that if you were comparing it to another group. In what we are discussing...the Democratic party has shown support of this viewpoint that religion should not be displayed in pubic/government. The Republican party has not supported it. Why is it then wrong to classify the idea they support and the other party does not as a Democratic or liberal ideal? I know there are Liberal and Conservative democrats...but generally the party is made up of liberal thinkers...while the Republican is made up of Conservative thinkers. I don't see how I am wrong to classify it as such?. If Christians supported stoning gays..and Muslims didn't....why would it be wrong to classify stoning gays as a Christian idea?


You have yet to provide me an example that illustrates that Europeans in general attack America for being overly religious, and that these attacks are what're inspiring liberal beliefs within America. You're making a lot of leaps in logic with your arguments here. If other countries wanted fodder to attack our president with, I'd say his environmental and foreign policies are far easier targets, and I generally see foregin policy brought up far more frequently than anything else.
I think I have made a mistake in explaining what I mean. The idea about religion we are discussing here is not a European invention, nor was it "imported" here. Left and Right wing thinkers exist everywhere...and this idea came from that side regardless of the continent or country of origin. I did not mean that those beliefs that Europeans hold...in terms of criticizing America for being too religious brought about the same beliefs here. I was stating...that Europe is generally more liberal than the United States. It holds views that the Democratic Party here (made up mostly of liberals as well) supports. One of these happens to be this view of religion. So...I believe that a large part of the world (Europe) holds the same liberal views that our Democratic Party supports here...thus they support one another belief wise. You will not believe the amount of times I have heard a liberal refer to the way "Europe" does something in comparison to how we do it. European ways have an influence and support liberal beliefs here.

Do you know that the changes weren't ever protested until recently? I'd like to see some sources on that claim.
Alright..my mistake. I do not know whether it was protested at all before now. However, I do know that it has become a popular criticism recently. It was not the center of media discussion, laws, or nearly as much criticism in the past as it is now. I also know, that it was Americans that asked for it to be put there...and as far as I know...they hadn't asked for it removed or complained about it until now. True..someone might have...but it was never as large an idea then as it is now.

I am actually going to be 100% honest here. You are right. I do try to point out that I am done with a debate because I feel I do not have a good enough reply to respond to the current situation. In some cases I DO actually get tired of the argument..or I feel I have said all I can and don't actually WANT to discuss it anymore. I think it is wrong for you to say that I react this way in every argument..as there are quite a few where I stayed until no one posted anymore and everything had been said. You are also wrong that my arguments are only based on biases..as if yours are not? No one is free from this. I do hold some emotional feelings towards certain subjects...and I do not have extensive knowledge on every argument I make. I go on what I see, hear, read, etc. I do look up information and try to present a decent argument. The other thing is that I have no allies on this board other than Darkslash. What I mean by that...is that the majority of the people on this board disagree with my point of view. So...it is easy to feel rushed, or overwhelmed and even to lose confidence in your argument. When you have 20 people telling you you are wrong...and presenting very well thought out points (even if they are wrong)...it is not so easy to remain strong and confident that you can "win". So...I will stop saying that I am done with a topic unless I actually am. I feel bad about reacting the way I do honestly....so I will try to fix that.

~Kiva