Hunting? The Big Problem

[Avalon]

Well ofcourse not x) But I will still have tools all around me. The branches and stones can be crafted to become makeshift spears, and smaller knives the like. My biggest problem would be to make fire, but I don't need matches to conjur that, just time and patience, and some trying and failure x) And to find a shelter wouldn't be hard, the trees can be used for a lot. Yet it would be a struggle to surivive yes, even with self crafted tools, but they greatly improve my chances of survival.

If I was all my self and didn't know basic surivial skills I'd be dead after the frist day. If I was to not use basic tools at all, most humans in general would have had little chances in the wild, but still by help of the most primitive of stone and branch tools we escaped near extingtion. Tools isn't the always the fancy stuff, like conventional knives and out-door cooking kits, it is also the tools which made humans famous, forexample the stone knife or the wooden spear.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion

Pnt: No, in the wild you're supposed to do everything yourself. No tools, that's cheating ! It's like me going into a non-calculator maths exam with a calculator just because "[humans] evolved that way".

Wait, who says you have to do everything yourself? That makes no sense, man, humans are social animals to begin with, we wouldn't just go out into a dangerous place on our own and go fight a hippo or something. You're really warping this whole thing out of proportion and logic.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Well then people shouldn't be stupid and arrogant enough to say they can take on a hippo and be thrown out into the wild to live on their own!

That was my whole point; that is a load of rubbish and anyone with any sense could see that. It's meant to seem absurd, because it is !

Sure, if you had some humans with tools and so on, you could survive in the wild. Sure, if you had a gun you could kill a hippo. I'm not debating those things. But not on your own, not being entirely self-sufficient.

Wait... you mean that's what this whole thing was about... to call humans stupid and arrogant? Wow, I wish I had known that sooner, I would've just ignored it. More importantly, you shouldn't be calling members of this thread stupid or arrogant, so let's drop that kind of talk.

Regardless, humans make tools, humans use those tools. Jaguars run fast and birds fly. We're just doing what we do best. No one got us where we were except ourselves, and God if you're into that.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Well people here were being arrogant, so it was only right to make it obvious how stupid and overconfident they were being. At last, that point is proven ^_^ !

No bud, your point was not proven. I don't think a single person in this entire thread thinks your point was proven. I do think you need to watch what you say, though, you've no place on this board to be calling members stupid, arrogant, or overconfident.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
I'm not allowed to say the truth? I thought in your last couple of posts you realised what I was getting at. Apparently not.

Basically, someone was bragging that they could fend off a hippo and such on their own. This is complete nonsense, and I set out to prove that (which I did, and it appeared you realised it in your last two posts, but now I'm not so sure). If it doesn't strike you as slightly absurd that a human can fight a hippo and win, on his or her own, then I really have to ask you why not?

How much time does the person have to prepare? Give me two weeks, a box of toothpicks, and a one inch shard of glass and I'll whoop that hippo right good.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Nope, the point was that someone claimed they could do it on their own, as if they were just randomly picked up and dumped into the wild. You wouldn't have any toothpicks, or any glass. You would have your hands, plus anything you made whilst you were out there. Technically it's possible (though extremely unlikely) - I wouldn't want to try it personally!

It's a heck of a lot easier when you can take things with you to do it. The reality is, if you're living in the wild, you're not going to have glass or toothpicks ...

Fine, give me two weeks. The toothpicks and glass are expendable, as I only intended to make a little stick figure man with a glass head.

[Pnt]

You're talking about an infeasible, and frankly, stupid situation. I'm putting this topic back on topic.



What do people think about allowing the Canadian goose to be hunted again? The numbers are pretty high up in Ohio, and they've been labeled by farmers and land owners in the area as some of the biggest problem-causing animals in the region. Personally, I don't see why they aren't considered game, as they're quite numerous in Ohio. I'm pretty sure they were protected at one point because their numbers were getting low, but they're everywhere you look in Ohio nowadays.

[Dare]

Originally posted by Pnt

What do people think about allowing the Canadian goose to be hunted again? The numbers are pretty high up in Ohio, and they've been labeled by farmers and land owners in the area as some of the biggest problem-causing animals in the region. Personally, I don't see why they aren't considered game, as they're quite numerous in Ohio. I'm pretty sure they were protected at one point because their numbers were getting low, but they're everywhere you look in Ohio nowadays.

I know they allow the hunting of them in NJ - my ex used to hunt them. I think it used to be endangered, though it's hard to tell these days since we have so many non-migratory Canada geese were we live, but maybe they're talking about a subspecies or something?

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
most if not all of whom would probably be considered more intelligent than an average person!

I do so hope you're not intentionally making a passive-aggressive statement about the intelligence of people who don't share your viewpoint.
You've accused people in this thread of being arrogant, but some of the things you've said in this thread can be construed as being arrogant as well.
Best to keep that in mind.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by Wicked
I know they allow the hunting of them in NJ - my ex used to hunt them. I think it used to be endangered, though it's hard to tell these days since we have so many non-migratory Canada geese were we live, but maybe they're talking about a subspecies or something?

All I know is that environmentalists defend these birds like crazy up here. A business I used to work for got a hefty fine for a dead Canadian goose on their property, but they don't hunt and there wasn't a gunshot wound anywhere on the goose. Luckily, they were able to take it to court and win. To my knowledge, Canadian geese are still protected in Ohio, and they're doing quite a good job at causing a whole lot of havoc around here.

[Monai]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
I guess this comes back to the argument of it being unacceptable to kill animals unless you use them, and even then it's not acceptable because there is already enough food and so on. I've already argued that point to the ground - the resistance I've encountered is quite astonishing by some people, most if not all of whom would probably be considered more intelligent than an average person!

I'm against hunting where the animal is killed for sport, or where it isn't eaten, like you I suppose... but I disagree with your theory on there already being enough food. My reason is that not everyone has access to the major food sources, and so have to hunt for food to survive.

And I think the reason you've encountered resistance is because of the whole thing of your hatred of human tools. For Christ's sake, how else are people supposed to survive in the wild? I think it's good that you value animals' lives, but the way you're always saying how animals are better than humans, and how things were much better when people weren't around. Humans are animals too, we came about naturally, the simple thing is we evolved. We became smarter than other animals and we used our brain power to make up for a lack of physical strength. I'm sure this has been posted a few times before now. We created tools to help us cope, because we don't have the physical strength to fight off animals with our bare hands. I think that's what you don't get, you expect humans to go in there and fight with the comparatively small amount of physical strength we do have against the huge amount, in comparison, that animals have, and not to take any tools. Humans fight with brains, animals fight with brawn. I'm not saying animals are dumb, but humans are definitely smarter, and that's how we came up with tools, and it's because we evolved. Other animals evolved to suit their surroundings. Insects have venom to ward off predators, they got that through evolution. By your logic, you should be preaching to the insects not to sting because it's unfair to the animals who can't. While your at it, tell fish not to swim because it's unfair to the birds who can't catch them. If animals can develop their traits through evolution, and you're okay with that, surely you're okay with the tools humans invented with their brains, through evolution?

[/rant]

[DarkElf]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion

And, it's quite strange really; most humans today wouldn't even be able to 'invent' algebra for example if we didn't have it already. Yet algebra is essential to pretty much everything we see around us. In 2007, humans have it easy because of things people did in the past. It's also annoying because there are the humans who leech off the ones who actually do come up with these new ideas and so on - and they end up benifiting just because they're human! Natural selection should mean the best will survive. But we still end up with ridiculously stupid people on the earth - humans are too good for their own good in that sense.

And you don't appreciate that?! I'm very happy in my lazy, technologically advanced lifestyle.

Once again, why should arrogance matter at all?

All that aside, please do not answer to these questions, they are rhetorical, let's continue with the topic of hunting.

[Pnt]

Bud, I still have no idea what you meant to prove. I simply wanted to bring this threat back on topic instead of continuing some incessant discussion about humans vs. hippos.

[Dare]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Ok, right, I will say it again.

It was claimed that a human could take on a hippo if placed into the wild on his own (no preparation or anything).

What I was trying to prove, is that this is a load of rubbish, and is a good example of some quite astonishing human arrogance - and how humans think they're so much better than other species, when clearly they're not!

Do you see now?

So the man vs. hippo argument was to prove how humans aren't better than other species?

What happens if we take the hippo out of the equation and replace it with something else?

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Ok, right, I will say it again.

It was claimed that a human could take on a hippo if placed into the wild on his own (no preparation or anything).

What I was trying to prove, is that this is a load of rubbish, and is a good example of some quite astonishing human arrogance - and how humans think they're so much better than other species, when clearly they're not!

Do you see now?

While I think that a person could potentially win regardless, as a person is so much smarter than a hippo, it seems like you'll do everything you can to leave a person's only defense, their brain, out of the equation.

As for round two, it's only fair to take all the hippos in the world and all the humans in the world and see who can make it to the moon first.

[Pnt]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
No, they can have their brain, just they can only have tools that they make, whilst they're out there. Can't take anything with them.

And, if there was one human, and one hippo, neither of them would ever reach the moon most likely. One of the reasons humans have power is because there are so many of them! Get one of them alone and they're not so intimidating...

Wow, maybe that's because humans are social creatures that rely upon other humans for survival.

So, let me get this straight, just so we're on the same page and all.

A human can't bring a man-made tool, other members of their social group, prior knowledge of how to survive in the wild, or any time to learn anything about the wild and then he/she has to fight a hippo in its natural habitat which the human will most certainly be unadapted to. And this proves that humans are arrogant and thus hunting is bad.

[Pnt]

I see where you are coming from, and I think that is both an illogical argument and irrelevant to this thread.

[Dare]

I wonder what the hippos would think if they were reading this?
^_^

[Pnt]

They wouldn't

[Monai]

I don't think anyone'd be stupid enough to say a human could fight a hippo, and win, without tools. I see where you're coming from, but I just don't think people would say that, although I could be wrong.

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
It was bragged that a human could take a hippo if they were randomly dumped into the wild. That implies they would not have any tools with them, would not have anyone else and would be fighting in the wild.

Where was that? ... I didn't see anyone bragging about hippos... I saw you put the hippo in as a "oh yeah well you're nothing if you can't kill a hippo" kind of way...

It's more you see this hippo as a sort of rite of passage, where "no one is worthy to survive unless they kill a hippo" ... For you say "no one can kill one if dumped into the wild with no tools or preparations" well okay, agreed, but at the same time no one is going to be dumped into the wild and proclaim, "First thing I shall do is kill a hippo" ... that'd be as dumb as a hippo trying to attack someone in death valley... Hippos for the most part will stick to the water, so to avoid it all you need to do is steer clear of the deep waters... you do know hippo hunting was a sport in ancient Egypt right? they used self made things there too ...

If you could make your own tools, all you really need is an acacia tree, and to kill a poisonus animal, such as the arrow frog, and a big leaf.... Take a few thorns and, may want to sharpen them on a stone first, then rub the frog with it, (approx 20 -30 of these) roll the leaf into a tight tube and there you go, a way to catch food. or just a sturdy branch, rub on a stone long enough to make a sharp point and there you go, a spear... or you could just break the spines off the tree at one end, then take the branch to make a good spiked club... or from your first kill, sharpened bones make great weapons too... use the skin to make strings, start making traps etc etc...

I know I can survive, not because I'm being arrogant or over confident, it is because I did... I know how to hunt because I do, I know the meat is not wasted because I see to it that it is not...

This is the last I'll say here (and no, that doesn't mean 'you are correct' it means 'I shouldn't have to say anymore' ...)