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Thank you for that inadvertent insult.Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
And that crap about hunters having respect for animals is a load of rubbish; if they respected the animals they wouldn't want to kill them in the first place!
Pnt has artfully summed up my opinion. Thank you Pnt.
Providing Lea with quality curmudgeon and lurking services since 2004.
Lea Felon: warned for the heinous crime of poking a badger with a spoon.
Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Farming provides us with all the food we need. Hunting on top of that is not necessary.
And that crap about hunters having respect for animals is a load of rubbish; if they respected the animals they wouldn't want to kill them in the first place! It's just like me walking up to someone I don't know and saying "Oh, I respect you, so take this!" *Bang* Also, I've seen hunters interviewed on TV, their attitudes are disgusting! Maybe hunting is different where I live to where you live, but here it is absolutely horrible.
The hunters I know around here are generally gentle, respectful people who know quite a bit about nature. The ones I know don't take more than they need and use all they take. If a person hunts, they don't consume that meat from farming. Thus, an action that is more humane in my opinion takes the place of an action that is less humane.
Then you'd be living in a Brave New World.
My friend raised an interesting point to me a few minutes ago - what if an animal was bred that enjoyed being killed and eaten hehe :P !
It's all well and good to care for animals, but you shouldn't hate those who hunt animals. Hating a person is much worse than killing an animal.Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Farming provides us with all the food we need. Hunting on top of that is not necessary.
And that crap about hunters having respect for animals is a load of rubbish; if they respected the animals they wouldn't want to kill them in the first place! It's just like me walking up to someone I don't know and saying "Oh, I respect you, so take this!" *Bang* Also, I've seen hunters interviewed on TV, their attitudes are disgusting! Maybe hunting is different where I live to where you live, but here it is absolutely horrible.
My friend raised an interesting point to me a few minutes ago - what if an animal was bred that enjoyed being killed and eaten hehe :P !
How is hating a person "much worse" than killing an animal? As long as you don't hurt somebody, it's ok and sometimes natural to hate somebody. You could hate me all you want, as long as you don't try to hurt me verbally or physically. But killing an animal is so vague, and in all cases, involves a degree of physical harm.Originally posted by DarkElf
It's all well and good to care for animals, but you shouldn't hate those who hunt animals. Hating a person is much worse than killing an animal.
And look what an effect STL's (and other's) hatred had on Forest Freak.Originally posted by Xinithian
How is hating a person "much worse" than killing an animal? As long as you don't hurt somebody, it's ok and sometimes natural to hate somebody. You could hate me all you want, as long as you don't try to hurt me verbally or physically. But killing an animal is so vague, and in all cases, involves a degree of physical harm.
Ok, so how do you propose we handle this then? Should hunting be banned? Should we let the deer populations skyrocket and then die out? Should we exterminate the human race?Originally posted by SimbaTheLion SW77: I'm honestly not bothered whether I'm here or not, so that's hardly a problem.
Mmm, what's to say the humans won't do the same again? Most humans don't think of the consequences of their actions.
No, they're not 'benefiting the system'; there is more than enough food for people in MEDCs at least already - and in fact if our governments weren't so stingy then there would be enough food for people in LEDCs too. And, even if people did hunt, the same amount of animals would be farmed (if not more), because farmers want to make money just like everyone else.
And FYI, your logic on farming and making money from it is a little backwards there. If the farmers continued to produce just as much meat with fewer people buying it, they would lose money. Chances are they'd reduce production numbers to prevent losses.
And Pnt's post about necessity summed up a lot of what I wanted to say. Thanks Pnt, well-said.
Are you saying everyone can just get food from the supermarket? Really? You know this for a fact?Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Heh, I have a business studies GCSE; I've studied 'needs' and 'wants'. They can quite easily just get food from the supermarket. And if you try to pull the argument of "Oh, some people aren't qualified enough to work.", then well, you could always work in a job that doesn't need any qualifications. It is not necessary. There's nothing really to be debated there.
Right, because obviously the stereotypes you see on TV or amongst the louder of the bunch apply to the entire group. Thanks for that "open-minded" perspective.Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
And that crap about hunters having respect for animals is a load of rubbish; if they respected the animals they wouldn't want to kill them in the first place! It's just like me walking up to someone I don't know and saying "Oh, I respect you, so take this!" *Bang* Also, I've seen hunters interviewed on TV, their attitudes are disgusting! Maybe hunting is different where I live to where you live, but here it is absolutely horrible.
I guess the Inuit people don't respect animals, because all of their food comes from hunting?
Ok, that I cannot agree with. How is dislike of someone worse than ending a life? Are you saying humans have more of a right to live than animals, so much so that they have more of a right to be liked regardless of what they do, than an animal has to live? How can you make a judgment like that?Originally posted by DarkElf
Hating a person is much worse than killing an animal.
Indeed. We do have more of a right to live, I'm not saying you should go out and have absolutely no compasion for animals at all, but what I hate to see is how so many of you seem to regard animals more than humans just because they aren't "evil".Originally posted by SpiritWolf77
Ok, that I cannot agree with. How is dislike of someone worse than ending a life? Are you saying humans have more of a right to live than animals, so much so that they have more of a right to be liked regardless of what they do, than an animal has to live? How can you make a judgment like that?
Nobody cursed him out, or directly insulted him. It was completely Forest Freak's decision to leave. It's not like every time he posted about something random, somebody told him, "stop posting, stupid hunter!" He could've easily just avoided hunting subjects altogether. If I joined an NRA forum, and saw that homosexuality was frowned upon by a majority, I would simply avoid topics regarding homosexuality.Originally posted by DarkElf
And look what an effect STL's (and other's) hatred had on Forest Freak.
I'm a hunter, are you saying I have no respect for the animals? I respect the animals, yet some may die by my hand. What do I do when I catch one? ... usually, I eat the meat, (just one cand feed the family for weeks) the bones, neck, heart, and innards are used to make a stew, which in turn also feeds the family for weeks after. the bones, aftrer the soup, it only is left as an empty shell that is buried in the garden to fertilise the various fruit trees and vegetable plants and herbs (which in turn is eaten) ... The fur of the animal is usually used to make blankets, coats, curtains, etc.. usually these can be used, or traded for what keeps us up until the next years hunting season... is that all a waste to you?Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
And that crap about hunters having respect for animals is a load of rubbish; if they respected the animals they wouldn't want to kill them in the first place! It's just like me walking up to someone I don't know and saying "Oh, I respect you, so take this!" *Bang* Also, I've seen hunters interviewed on TV, their attitudes are disgusting! Maybe hunting is different where I live to where you live, but here it is absolutely horrible.
When was the last time you went out on your own through forests? Seen the natural landmarks, the plants, the wild animals... when was the last time you spent you nights soothed to sleep by the sounds of a brook in the distance or the calls of the wild? ... (no, those 'nature sounds' CDs are nothing compared to real) I like the land, I appreciate the beautiful landscapes from the view of a mountain range with mist covering the floor. All of these are expirienced while hunting, in fact moreso when you rely on the natural land marks to keep yourself fed and alive.
To be a hunter you also have to be aware of the prey you live off of. Keeping strong track of what their numbers are, keeping their forest clean (to prevent unnessesary risk to the wildlife you hunt) etc etc... also, if we didn't hunt, do you realise how many people would be killed by animals? ... do you realise how many deer attacks there's been in california? ... All this does have to come with hunting... for if there's no management, there's no prey, and no hunting... that's why we have organisations such as the department of fish and game ( click here to see their website ) ... they do a lot to preserve wildlife and habitats...
Where does this conviction of yours come from?Originally posted by DarkElf
Indeed. We do have more of a right to live, I'm not saying you should go out and have absolutely no compasion for animals at all, but what I hate to see is how so many of you seem to regard animals more than humans just because they aren't "evil".
I completely disagree with this. I think every organism has a right to life, or to protect its life, but I would never, under any circumstances, hold an animal's life to the same level of a human's life. Why? Because I'm a human being. I care about my species and its continuity above all others. I don't go out of my way to harm other creatures, but given the choice between a dog's life or a person's life, I'd choose the person 100% of the time. That's not a superiority complex, that's nature. I look out for my own, just as every other species does.Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
And animal loss of life is just as bad as human loss of life. Yet another case of human superiority complex over other living species.
I'm not saying better, though I do realize humans are just about the best around at certain things (Intelligence, social interaction, complex communication, etc..). I'm just saying that I have no obligation to any other animal, just as no animal has any other obligation to my species. Thus, I would always choose the life of a human before the life of any other creature, or any number of creatures. That's not selfish, bud, that's how nature works. Banana slugs don't go out of their way to ensure the survival of grasshoppers unless that would somehow benefit their species. Lions won't refuse to eat a gazelle because they're concerned for the gazelle (Again, unless it somehow ensures their own safety). I think it'd be a selfish double standard to claim that humans are just another animal that's not better than any other animal, but to expect humans to act differently than any other animal and strive to ensure the continuation of other species.
The ironic thing is that this debate only lies within human society, as all other animals are incapable of this sort of discussion.
There's no such thing as "Fair" in nature. We're doing what comes naturally to us --building and using tools to help us survive. We can't run 65 miles per hour, we don't have sharp claws, and our teeth are pretty useless in hunting. So, we used our brain, and it worked out for us. We're still living in nature, though. Nature is all around us, and in fact, we are all of nature. Human beings are inherently natural creatures, we came from nature. We just changed our environment to better suit our needs. If the nest of leaves and twigs a chimpanzee builds before it sleeps is natural, then so are all our tools that we have built.
My point is that men are natural creatures. Thus, anything man-made is natural. I've personally never understood why some people think humans are seperated from nature.
When did different start to mean "Unnatural?" But alas, this is off topic.
Experience.Originally posted by Ghamu
Where does this conviction of yours come from?
You all are going to kill each other in here... sad.
What kind of experience(s)?Originally posted by DarkElf
Experience.
It's unnessecary to eat?Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Anon: I'm not saying you're wasting the animal, I'm saying it's unnecessary killing it in the first place... And animal loss of life is just as bad as human loss of life. Yet another case of human superiority complex over other living species.
We are connected in a big web, we are part of the cycle... if we stopped hunting alltogether, it would destroy a lot of that web... if we all stopped, then the deer would be too numerous here in California, and their supply of food will begin to dwindle, the preditors are not numerous enough to balance the population. They also would lose the fear of humans and begin to attack humans just as the deer have begun to do, resulting in loss of human life... Which in turn will result in the loss of both preditor and prey (as humans have a tendency to defend themselves) then begins to upset balance and cause many un-needed deaths of humans, and animals too.
Remember, animals don't have laws like us humans do, and we are deffinatly not going to begin bringing to court an animal that killed another of it's own kind.
Also, a gun and bow n arrow is a one-time payment that yealds a lot of food, a trip to the store is a daily payment, that only holds enough to feed one day (depending on how much is bought) ... some bank accounts are not that deep... poor money management will cause it to run dry, then it's back to hunting for your own food, or die of starvation.
Also, I agree with Pnt... if I were to have to choose between a human and an animals, I'd choose human 100% of the time too... I mean I like dogs well enough, but if I ever see a dog attack a person, I would not hesitate a moment to cut that dog's head off or blow it's brains across the floor. may be concidered cruel, but it is way more cruel, and completely heartless to stand idly by and watch a dog killing a human. Likewise, if I saw a stray, and I had an extra piece of chicken or other food, I would give it to the homeless rather than a stray. Feeding a starving dog in front of a starving homeless is also cruel. If the stay is edible in fact put it to death, cook it up, and feed the homeless with it's meat... that way you end the misery of the animal, and feed the needy... you wouldn't kill your best friends for the sake of an animal would you?
However death of an animal is not nessesary when it is just left to rot, like what pachers used to commonly do to elephants and rhinos for their tusks...
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