Illegal Immigration

[Muruwa]

So a big debate going on now (at least where I am) is what to do about illegal immigration. I personally think that if you're in a country illegally you're given a reasonable amount of time to become a citizen, and if you don't you get deported. I'm not too knowledgable about what it takes to become a US citizen so I guess I can't say how long that time would be. Or if you only want to work, than there needs to be some sort of worker program set up (or if there already is one a better one).
So what do you guys think about all this?

[Stormfury]

"I say scrap the visas and passports... so that we can all live in one big _ perfect harmony." - DL <3

[TakaTiger]

Illegal Immigrant = Illegal! if you come here Legally, no problem at all, but to expect the "luxuries" of a US citizen without becoming one? thats just lazy, not that im some big racist american, i honestly dont think this country is that great or something like that

[Katse]

I'm against it, because it's unfair to those who actually obeyed the laws and worked to become citizens to see people that simply jumped a fence and came here illegally get amnesty.

I could go on, but that's my main reason.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by TakaTiger
Illegal Immigrant = Illegal! if you come here Legally, no problem at all, but to expect the "luxuries" of a US citizen without becoming one? thats just lazy, not that im some big racist american, i honestly dont think this country is that great or something like that

Lazy? Now would you call being born and officially being an american, Lazy? I mean wow you didn't do anything but take a breath and bam you're an american.

also, Go live in another country TT, Then come back and tell us how it is, People in Africa die everyday of diseases, people in mexico die of starvation, here we got funds and government things to help us with that, they don't have those "luxuries" there.

I'm with it sorta, Though I think they have a perfect amount of time, NO offense to anyone here, my stepdad, has a lot of Mexican's working for him some of which were illegal before hand before they worked for him (because its illegal to hire illegal immagrants) and they have to wait 3 years before coming an american citizen, also on the fact, that most illegal immagrants probably work a lot harder than any American would during a day, Look at the jobs we don't take, Trash, Construction, Janitors, Sewage people, Most of which are immigrants from another country, Because our lazy tails would never go that low as to do something that nasty, or that low paying.

But people who come here barely make anything at all, and are willing to do anyting what so ever to get cash for their family

If they work hard, and prove their worth. Let them in, because thats what America is, and what America once was, a country devoted to being the best, to being more than any other country

What the four fathers wanted in America, To make a nation that allowed all races and cultures to live together and prospure in harmony, Something no nation in the entire world has EVER been able to do, And America gets closer to achieving that every day of the year.

~KtL

EDIT:

just noticed something, it says illegal immigration, not just immigration

Gonna add something,

If they are illegal, I'd rather check what they had done, some things in Mexico are illegal where here its not, If they had killed someone there, or broke out of jail there to come here, then thats when I'd go against it,

but doesn't everyone make wrong decisions or go to far, or make a "Sin", if everytime an american did something wrong, and were put in as "illegal" i'd think there'd be no such thing as an American

Plus, sorry for jumping in on the wrong thing but some does go into illegal's

[Katse]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I'm with it sorta, Though I think they have a perfect amount of time, NO offense to anyone here, my stepdad, has a lot of Mexican's working for him some of which were illegal before hand before they worked for him (because its illegal to hire illegal immagrants) and they have to wait 3 years before coming an american citizen, also on the fact, that most illegal immagrants probably work a lot harder than any American would during a day, Look at the jobs we don't take, Trash, Construction, Janitors, Sewage people, Most of which are immigrants from another country, Because our lazy tails would never go that low as to do something that nasty, or that low paying.

But people who come here barely make anything at all, and are willing to do anyting what so ever to get cash for their family

KTL, I love ya like a friend and all, but I. Hate. That. Arguement.

Say you're an employer. You're presented with two people applying for a position in your company. One is a citizen. You have to pay them the normal wage of an American citizen. Your next candidate is an illegal American, who you can pay less for and will probably do more work than the American citizen. Who are you going to choose?

I'm not saying that illegals are taking Americans' jobs. Far from it. Yes, there are jobs out there the average American may not do, but dang, if they need the money, they'll work, just like the illegal. Hiring illegals under the table is illegal, which can cause dire consequences for the employer. Another problem is that the employer can take advantage of the illegal, making them work and not paying them at all. The illegal can't seek help because most are afraid to step forward because they know that they'll be found out for being an illegal citizen. So unfortunately, they'll be stuck in a hard place even when they get here.

And as long as we're on the topic, does anyone know the reasons why there are illegal immigrants? It's not only because they want work to make money for their family. It's also because of the difficult processes that all immigrants must go through to become citizens. The laws are what I think must be changed. I'm not saying that we should give amnesty to every immigrant that hops the border, nor am I saying that we should build some big 'ol wall to keep 'em out. What the process asks of these people is almost redundant. For one, in order to become a citizen, the immigrant must already have a relative that's a citizen. How is that possible when the whole of your family is in the country you're emmigrating from? Also, the process asks for a ton of money that the immigrant doesn't have. Hence, them wanting to come over here in the first place.

Again, I'm against the illegal immigration, but not like some of the people that use petty arguements and solutions to try to solve the problem.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Katse
KTL, I love ya like a friend and all, but I. Hate. That. Arguement.

Say you're an employer. You're presented with two people applying for a position in your company. One is a citizen. You have to pay them the normal wage of an American citizen. Your next candidate is an illegal American, who you can pay less for and will probably do more work than the American citizen. Who are you going to choose?

I'm not saying that illegals are taking Americans' jobs. Far from it. Yes, there are jobs out there the average American may not do, but dang, if they need the money, they'll work, just like the illegal. Hiring illegals under the table is illegal, which can cause dire consequences for the employer. Another problem is that the employer can take advantage of the illegal, making them work and not paying them at all. The illegal can't seek help because most are afraid to step forward because they know that they'll be found out for being an illegal citizen. So unfortunately, they'll be stuck in a hard place even when they get here.

And as long as we're on the topic, does anyone know the reasons why there are illegal immigrants? It's not only because they want work to make money for their family. It's also because of the difficult processes that all immigrants must go through to become citizens. The laws are what I think must be changed. I'm not saying that we should give amnesty to every immigrant that hops the border, nor am I saying that we should build some big 'ol wall to keep 'em out. What the process asks of these people is almost redundant. For one, in order to become a citizen, the immigrant must already have a relative that's a citizen. How is that possible when the whole of your family is in the country you're emmigrating from? Also, the process asks for a ton of money that the immigrant doesn't have. Hence, them wanting to come over here in the first place.

Again, I'm against the illegal immigration, but not like some of the people that use petty arguements and solutions to try to solve the problem.

no problems, I just hope that last sentance wasn't directed to me

I agree wholly onto you, Mostly reasoning why, Cause I really agree with you, Mostly on the part saying I was talking about immigration, like "non illegal's", but I forgot, it was illegal's lol.. So yeah :s

I'm agains't Illegal Immigration, but not against immigration as a whole..

[Katse]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
no problems, I just hope that last sentance wasn't directed to me

I agree wholly onto you, Mostly reasoning why, Cause I really agree with you, Mostly on the part saying I was talking about immigration, like "non illegal's", but I forgot, it was illegal's lol.. So yeah :s

I'm agains't Illegal Immigration, but not against immigration as a whole..

Nah. Nothing was directed at no one here.

I'm all for immigration, as long as it's done legally. As you said, it's what made our country. It's just sad to see that most of the people that are for illegals getting amnesty think that people against it don't want immigration at all. :c

[lionloversam]

Originally posted by Katse
I'm against it, because it's unfair to those who actually obeyed the laws and worked to become citizens to see people that simply jumped a fence and came here illegally get amnesty.

I could go on, but that's my main reason.

I agree...

[Sadiki]

I was looking stuff about moving US sinse I'm planning to move CA in around 5 years.
to get citizenship you have to live in US for 5 years ( 3 if you are married with someone who is US citizen ), have no criminal background and know basic english. those task aren't that hard to compleat, but for getting a visa and green card / working permit is real painful prosess and ask a lot of paper work... also US only gives 55 000 green cards / working permits per year and specialist / professionals come first. In marriage the prosses is a lot easier with everything sinse you can prove that you have life there or something... but sinse you have to get married in 90 after entering the country it doesn't really sound too apealing for me. I mean at least what me and Sharifu have talked about it, we both would want to live together at least couple of years without being married just to make sure it does work out.

What comes to my opinion about entering illegaly.. well it is illegal as the name says so they should be returned, but I can really see why people do that... it's mostly because US makeing it nearly impossible to move in, I can understand the reasons why thought, but I'm sure it could be done with a lot less paper work then it's at now.

[lionloversam]

@ STM (slightly off-topic): I hope it works out for you getting citizenship. I am glad that you, being at the same age as me, have found your possible soul mate. I hope it all works out for you, buddy.

[lion_roog]

In one month, in the Tucson sector alone, they caught 14,000 illegal immigrants croosing the border with a criminal record from Mexico. A lot of people cross the border to earn money for their families and send it back to them in Mexico. Arizona alone has 500,000 illegal immigrants...making about one out of 13 people an illegal immigrant.

I agree that entering the United States should be a little easier...as this one guy put it: If we could enter the United States legally and not have it be so hard...thousands of people wouldn't be risking their lives to cross the border in the middle of a desert.

It can get kinda crazy down here with people crossing the border. You got high speed chases because coyotes don't want to be caught transporting people illegally. There are people who kidnap illegal immigrants and hold them ransom, or kill them after a few days if money isn't received by either the smugglers or the family of the immigrant. There are people who protect their ranches that are in the path of a trail and gun fights will break out every now and then. And the government has warned that MS-13 (one of the most dangerous gangs in America) has been offered money to take out border patrol agents. But most smugglers and coyotes just find it easier to bribe the border patrol...since people smuggling is usually worth more than drug smuggling.

[Katse]

Originally posted by lion_roog
In one month, in the Tucson sector alone, they caught 14,000 illegal immigrants croosing the border with a criminal record from Mexico. A lot of people cross the border to earn money for their families and send it back to them in Mexico. Arizona alone has 500,000 illegal immigrants...making about one out of 13 people an illegal immigrant.

I agree that entering the United States should be a little easier...as this one guy put it: If we could enter the United States legally and not have it be so hard...thousands of people wouldn't be risking their lives to cross the border in the middle of a desert.

It can get kinda crazy down here with people crossing the border. You got high speed chases because coyotes don't want to be caught transporting people illegally. There are people who kidnap illegal immigrants and hold them ransom, or kill them after a few days if money isn't received by either the smugglers or the family of the immigrant. There are people who protect their ranches that are in the path of a trail and gun fights will break out every now and then. And the government has warned that MS-13 (one of the most dangerous gangs in America) has been offered money to take out border patrol agents. But most smugglers and coyotes just find it easier to bribe the border patrol...since people smuggling is usually worth more than drug smuggling.

That's what I also think should be done. These coyotes should be arrested and their business put to an end. I just find it amazing how they're making so much money when the people they're smuggling are coming for the sole purpose of making money.

[TakaTiger]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Lazy? Now would you call being born and officially being an american, Lazy? I mean wow you didn't do anything but take a breath and bam you're an american.

also, Go live in another country TT, Then come back and tell us how it is, People in Africa die everyday of diseases, people in mexico die of starvation, here we got funds and government things to help us with that, they don't have those "luxuries" there.

I'm with it sorta, Though I think they have a perfect amount of time, NO offense to anyone here, my stepdad, has a lot of Mexican's working for him some of which were illegal before hand before they worked for him (because its illegal to hire illegal immagrants) and they have to wait 3 years before coming an american citizen, also on the fact, that most illegal immagrants probably work a lot harder than any American would during a day, Look at the jobs we don't take, Trash, Construction, Janitors, Sewage people, Most of which are immigrants from another country, Because our lazy tails would never go that low as to do something that nasty, or that low paying.

if i was going to go live in another country, i would have the deciency to become a citizen, were talking about illegal immigration, if you come here illegally, and are too lazy to become a citizen, than i dont think its right that you should have the rights of one, read posts carefully before jumping the gun =)

[Katse]

^ He editted his post saying that he thought we were talking about immigration in general, and not illegal immigration.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by TakaTiger
read posts carefully before jumping the gun =)

Right back at you TT =)

[Only-now]

I am not against immigration at all, but illegal immigration is purely wrong and bad for our society.

For one, they do NOT support our economy like they claim. You know manoy sent back from the United States is Mexico's 2nd or 3rd lagest source of income? That means that the money our employers are paying these illegal immigrants is not recirculating in our economy, but being sent out of it to another.

Secondly, I hate the argument that Americans will not do certain jobs. For one, does anyone realize that we did not just magically become the most powerful nation on Earth? We BUILT our country through hard work, and blood, and sweat. If we NEEDED to do those jobs, we would. There are PLENTY of American citizens that need money just like the immigrants, and those posititions WOULD get filled.

I am for building a very long, concrete wall, and increasing security at the border. It worries me that it should be so simple to get into the country. I do not want another attack, nor do I want convicted criminals coming to my country. A large amount of our prison system is filled with illegal immigrants. Wouldnt it take off a lot of strain if those people were deported?

Also, illegal immigrants dont pay any taxes. So they receieve the benefits of earning money here, using our hospitals, and using welfare and they contribute nothing? How is that fair to us? How can someone who isnt a citizen DEMAND they have our rights?

When people immigrated here years ago from Europe..they had pride in coming to our country. They loved America, and they wanted to be part of it. They WANTED to learn English, and would actually forbid speaking their language in their home because they were now AMERICANS. Now we have people who don't even know English in our country...people who want to be an American citizen? The LEAST they could do is learn our language. As my dad was talking to me about...if you go to Miami Florida..it is ALL in Spanish. How is that even just? That in our own country we have to have a hard time traveling because they dont speak the same language as us? That's absurd!

There are too many things to name as to why illegal immigration is wrong, and why we need to secure our borders as soon as possible.

~Kiva

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Only-now


Also, illegal immigrants dont pay any taxes. So they receieve the benefits of earning money here, using our hospitals, and using welfare and they contribute nothing? How is that fair to us? How can someone who isnt a citizen DEMAND they have our rights?



When people immigrated here years ago from Europe..they had pride in coming to our country. They loved America, and they wanted to be part of it. They WANTED to learn English, and would actually forbid speaking their language in their home because they were now AMERICANS. Now we have people who don't even know English in our country...people who want to be an American citizen? The LEAST they could do is learn our language. As my dad was talking to me about...if you go to Miami Florida..it is ALL in Spanish. How is that even just? That in our own country we have to have a hard time traveling because they dont speak the same language as us? That's absurd!

I think you have points in your other arguements except for these two. The taxes arguement doesn't really work because, according to my knowledge, 95% of the taxes collected in the United States is paid out by the richest 5% of American citizens.

EDIT: Never mind on the tax issue...I read it wrong for some strange reason...What I said is still true, it just doesn't have much to do with anything...But I believe you can't receive welfare if you are illegal...I am ignorant when it comes to being accepted for welfare

In places were Spanish is popular and Mexican culture is popular, you have to remember that parts of the United States used to belong to Mexico before the Mexican American War and the Gadsden Purchase. Not to mention many people who are born Americans today can trace apart of their roots back to Mexico in only a generation or two, including myself. So to think that Spanish speaking in America is absurd for whatever reason seems a little ignorant (Don't take this word as a personal attack as many seem to do, because it's not) to me.

On the other issues, yes, the border needs to be more secure, but that wont work by itself...immigration has to be changed in order to make it easier to enter the United States...most people enter this country to earn a better living for their families...it's only natural.

[A-non-a-mus]

What really bugs me about illegal immigration is those 'illegal' expect ot be given the full benefits of a legal immigrant? ...bleh... illegal is illegal... besides, if we rid our country of it's border, (as certain protesters were demanding over here) then what exactly is to hinder terrorism anyways? ... basically putting a gigantic sign "bomb here please" over our country...

though, I do agree that all the paperwork should be lessened to become a US citizen... and they really should change the whole 'get married within 90 days' thing.

[Tiikeri]

Ahh, illegal immigration...got loads of that here. We're one of the smallest countries in the world, yet everyone from non EU countries wants to move here. We have a huge amount of foreigners here as it is, with us being in the EU, anyone else from an EU country can move here without being asked too much. But with the UK being an "ethnic" country with cities like Luton and Bradford to name but a few. We have a huge problem with asians coming over in the backs of lorries and such. And it really pisses me off. Why anyone would want to move to a godforsaken country like the UK is beyond me anyway but that's another story. Some just come here and work illegally, now if they just work, even if it is illegally, I don't care. But the thing that gets me is, most of them turn into muggers and robbers because they don't get enough money in their "hand car wash" job or whatever job they get. And that's why I'm against it. Not because it's illegal, but because of what most of them turn into when they realise they haven't got the money.