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Thread: Illegal Immigration

  1. #21
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    I never said people shouldn't speak spanish here..but that doesn't mean that there should actually be cities where LEGAL AMERICANS cannot find their way around. EVERY person in the United States should learn to speak English..it is only proper, and polite to do so. You do not come to someone's country, and then ask them to cater to you and your language and not even take the time to learn theirs.

    It doesn't matter if the Spanish USED to control it...it isn' that way now. We control it, and we speak English..so WHY would it be so hard for people to learn it? I don't know if I necessarily agree with making immigration easier either.

    ~Kiva

  2. #22
    Super Moderator Sharifu's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Only-now
    You do not come to someone's country, and then ask them to cater to you and your language and not even take the time to learn theirs.
    Well gee... I'm going to Finland and France this summer and I don't know Finnish or French... But yeah people still want me to go. But I do understand that it's frusterating when people talk to you and they can't really speak English, so you say, "What?" And they repeat themselves and you still can't understand them...

    Originally posted by Only-now
    I don't know if I necessarily agree with making immigration easier either.
    Maybe you would understand how I feel if your love lived in a different country...

    The marriage thing is so stupid... That you would have to get married within 90 days... I don't want to rush getting marrried with STM if we do get married... That law makes it seem like we have to do that, if we want to be together sooner...

    If we get married, I want us to do it when it feels right, and we want to... Not to do it because we feel like we have to.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member nathalie's Avatar
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    Hmm ...

    If you're going there on a holiday, or if you actually find your love like Sharifu has, I think it's different.

    Many people come to Belgium ... they "steal" our social homes and they "steal" our jobs.
    Some actually adjust at the way things are in Belgium, some don't even care. That's why I put steal in " ", because the ones who don't even bother and plan on staying here the rest of their lives and don't bother to adjust and don't bother to even try and learn the language ... those are the ones "stealing" from us in my opinion.

    There are many Belgians who can't afford a place and are in need of these social houses, but when you are white, you mostly will be put on the 2nd place.

    I worked at one of those immigration places, so I know how it kind of works over here.
    It's a long procedure for a foreigner who wants to come here and really wants to stay, becuase of political business, and people who don't have anything in their own country and "sneak" into other country's.

    There are good ones, they adjust, they learn the language ... They really put an efford into it. I have no problem with those.

    In my class, we have 2 foreigners.
    Everyone is busy everytime to look for a job, but those 2 don't even speak Flemish, and they don't even bother to look for a job, and yet in the end, a boss *has* to hire them if they do apply for a job, because otherwhise the first thing they will say to that boss: you are a rassist.

    I can get really mad about these things ...

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  4. #24
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    Originally posted by Sharifu
    Well gee... I'm going to Finland and France this summer and I don't know Finnish or French... But yeah people still want me to go. But I do understand that it's frusterating when people talk to you and they can't really speak English, so you say, "What?" And they repeat themselves and you still can't understand them...
    I believe he was getting at those who wish to live in the country. I'm sure anyone from any country (especially non english speaking ones) will understand that tourists cannot be made to learn the language fluently before travelling, although it is respectful to learn a few words.

    As for those who choose to live in a country with a different language to your mother tongue, you have to be prepared to learn it. I'm hoping to move to Finland next year, even though learning Finnish is part of why I want to live there..but you get my drift. Like the issue with loads and loads of Brits moving to Spain to buy "homes in the sun". Most of them really really annoy me, because they just move out there and couldn't care less whether they speak Spanish or not. Now my Spanish is abismal, but compared to some people who actually live there, it's awesome. And a lot of Spanish people are feeling the same way, they can't even communicate to people in their own language in their own country because most of them are Brits who have the "a cannae be ahrsed speekin sparnish cuz the'all speek english" attitude. And actually, that isn't true, they only know a few words. Spain is becoming a second England...especially on the coasts. And I'm sure the Spanish wouldn't mind that, as long as the people who move to live there at least try and make the effort to show their language some respect.

  5. #25
    Senior Member nathalie's Avatar
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    You know, Belgium has 3 official languages and is devided into 3 parts.
    The German part, we get no complaints from them.

    But the French part ... *pfew* ... when they come to "our part" they don't even bother to speak Flemish, but oh, if we go over there, we *must* speak French, while they know Flemish well enough.

    Which I found logicially actually, we do speak French when we go over there, seems natural to us, since it is the French part.
    But to get them to speak Flemish ... that's like 1 big task :s
    And in the end, we have lived in the same country since 1890.

    Probably not all of them are like that though, I don't wanna shove them all to 1 side, hehe.

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  6. #26
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    I would like to share my comments here, but living in a country that incentivate ilegal imigrants, i think i do not have any credibility to do any coment here...

  7. #27
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    It's very difficult to talk about immigration. First of all, I have to say that I'm immigrant (a legal one) in Spain. Spain, as most of the developed countries is having a lot of trouble with immigration. It's difficult to deal with it. I think that more regulation is needed over immigration. There should be a control over the people who get into the country, and if they're not citizens (in the case of Europe, non-EU citizens) they should come with job, in order to keep them away from delinquency which may eventually result from not finding a job. So there should be a strict control with the people who enter through the airport: Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between regular tourists and potential immigrants so there should be a registry that records the date of the income and the day they should get away -usually in three months-; there should also be a requirement of having some amount of money that is enough to live during that period (I think this already happens, though I'm not sure of it).
    But there is a problem: There is no control over ALL the people who enter. Some of them come from the sea (from Africa) and some other from the borders (where is no control because of the European Union thing). So those people won't appear on the registry and without identification, it's hard to deport them or something.
    In conclusion, as I say in the begining, it's quite difficult to think about what can be done about immigration, and how to be fair with everyone. There must be some changes and there must be no compassion with illegal ones if what people want is to have a safety and integrated country.


    Originally posted by Tiikeri
    Like the issue with loads and loads of Brits moving to Spain to buy "homes in the sun". Most of them really really annoy me, because they just move out there and couldn't care less whether they speak Spanish or not. Now my Spanish is abismal, but compared to some people who actually live there, it's awesome. And a lot of Spanish people are feeling the same way, they can't even communicate to people in their own language in their own country because most of them are Brits who have the "a cannae be ahrsed speekin sparnish cuz the'all speek english" attitude. And actually, that isn't true, they only know a few words. Spain is becoming a second England...especially on the coasts. And I'm sure the Spanish wouldn't mind that, as long as the people who move to live there at least try and make the effort to show their language some respect. [/B]
    Well, the situation described actually happens and I have seen it with my own eyes. Last summer on the beach I've been to, every bar or pub was either English or German, and I know of a lot of places that are like that. But I don't see that kind of immigration harmful. I mean, they bring profits to Spain's economy, since they spend money they bring from foreign countries, and they keep alive the building industry which is one of Spain's most important sectors in it's economy. So I don't think it's bad. What it may be bad it's, as you say, the attitude, 'cause if you go to the beach you can't talk with other people and it's like you're in another country. And yes, I think they should try at least to learn some Spanish. But this is just a "moral" issue, and what it's a topic to debate is how to deal with illegal immigrants and the consequences of them.

  8. #28
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    Originally posted by Only-now
    I never said people shouldn't speak spanish here..but that doesn't mean that there should actually be cities where LEGAL AMERICANS cannot find their way around. EVERY person in the United States should learn to speak English..it is only proper, and polite to do so. You do not come to someone's country, and then ask them to cater to you and your language and not even take the time to learn theirs.

    It doesn't matter if the Spanish USED to control it...it isn' that way now. We control it, and we speak English..so WHY would it be so hard for people to learn it? I don't know if I necessarily agree with making immigration easier either.

    ~Kiva
    I agree, people should learn the language of the country they are in. And I doubt most people expect Americans to cater to their culture...just to respect it.

    I don't care who controls it now. That is a red herring and is not the point. The point is that you have to expect that the Mexican culture is still very popular in certain areas because many people are Mexican in those areas. You have to remember that Mexico is a poor country, most people don't have the resources to learn English before they move to America. So they come here and learn, not everyone can grasp such a difficult language as English. And believe me, most people try to learn because they are trying to survive. And to make it easier, I think Spanish should be a mandatory language to learn in school in the South Western Untied States. If you know Spanish, it is much easier to teach someone to learn English because you are able to communicate with them in one language already. look at it this way, would it be easier to learn a language from someone who could speak English...or from someone who couldn't speak any English?

    When you look at the break down of generations, with 1st Generation being people who moved to the U.S. from another country, 2nd Generation being people born in the U.S. with Immigrants as parents, and 3rd Generation being born of the 2nd Generation. You see a pattern that English is more dominant as you move from 1st to 3rd Generation. A family moves here from Mexico (1st Generation), and they speak Spanish and know only a few phrases in English. That is usually common, especially with adults...if they are children, they are more likely to be fluent in English as well as Spanish by the time they are an adult. The 2nd Generation is usually the most bilingual of the three generations. Able to speak both english and their original language fluently. The 3rd generation is the generation that accepts English as their main language, with a high percentage not being able to speak their family's original language fluently.
    http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?id=282



    Immigration being made a little easier would help the border crossing problem. It would reduce the number of illegal border crossings because most people would rather cross the easy way, where you didn't have to risk life in the desert, being led by a coyote. If we just secured the borders even more, that may hurt the situation. It's simple economics. When you restrict a service, people will pay higher prices for that service...and when that service is illegal, then illegal activities will rise as the price rises...because when there is more opportunity for profit, you have entrepreneurs who are willing to fill the demand to gain a profit. A good example is the failed "War on Drugs", the main result out of that was creating a higher priced market for drugs. And the more money involved, the more people are going to do to secure their share of that money.

  9. #29
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    Maybe a program like this one in the mid-1900s would work with illegal immigration.

    http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/frontpage/13801.php

    Also, the man, Joe Gonzales, is my Uncle...

  10. #30
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    Originally posted by Lion Roar
    Well, the situation described actually happens and I have seen it with my own eyes. Last summer on the beach I've been to, every bar or pub was either English or German, and I know of a lot of places that are like that. But I don't see that kind of immigration harmful. I mean, they bring profits to Spain's economy, since they spend money they bring from foreign countries, and they keep alive the building industry which is one of Spain's most important sectors in it's economy. So I don't think it's bad. What it may be bad it's, as you say, the attitude, 'cause if you go to the beach you can't talk with other people and it's like you're in another country. And yes, I think they should try at least to learn some Spanish. But this is just a "moral" issue, and what it's a topic to debate is how to deal with illegal immigrants and the consequences of them.
    I'm not talking about holiday makers or tourists. I've been to Spain no less than 5 times on my holidays, even though my level of Spanish leaves something to be desired. I'm talking about those who "move" out there, to leave their homes in the UK and buy an apartment in Spain without knowing or intending to learn Spanish. They just rely on the "they all speak English" factor. I mean you probably don't see that as a problem LR as your English is really good from what I've read. But what about the older people who don't know it as well, they've either got to learn more English or just hope that the Brits learn Spanish. There was a cartoon in my newspaper a few weeks ago which had pictures of Spanish apartments being built and all the "se vende" signs, and there were two men in this boat, and one said to the other "I'm thinking of learning English so I'll be accepted by the locals". Now for me that says a lot. Now I'm sure the Spanish don't want them to speak fluently or "con regularidad", But for them to learn enough to communicate effectively with other people. Maybe it's just me, but as Roog said, you should learn the language of the country you live in, I think it's only fair really.

  11. #31
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    Originally posted by Tiikeri
    I'm not talking about holiday makers or tourists. I've been to Spain no less than 5 times on my holidays, even though my level of Spanish leaves something to be desired. I'm talking about those who "move" out there, to leave their homes in the UK and buy an apartment in Spain without knowing or intending to learn Spanish. They just rely on the "they all speak English" factor. I mean you probably don't see that as a problem LR as your English is really good from what I've read. But what about the older people who don't know it as well, they've either got to learn more English or just hope that the Brits learn Spanish. There was a cartoon in my newspaper a few weeks ago which had pictures of Spanish apartments being built and all the "se vende" signs, and there were two men in this boat, and one said to the other "I'm thinking of learning English so I'll be accepted by the locals". Now for me that says a lot. Now I'm sure the Spanish don't want them to speak fluently or "con regularidad", But for them to learn enough to communicate effectively with other people. Maybe it's just me, but as Roog said, you should learn the language of the country you live in, I think it's only fair really.
    Well, actually I agree with you that they should learn the language of the country where they live. But if they don't want to learn it, it's not an important problem. I mean, there are worse problems with other kinds of immigrants to worry if the brits speak spanish or not. Appart from that, I'm sure that where they live there are more foreigners than spaniards, and as I said, they have their own bars, shops, etc. so they don't have a real problem to communicate. I think that European laws protect them to live wherever they want, and they aren't obliged to learn any language... It would be a respectful act to do it, but it's not an obligation, and not an important problem either.

  12. #32
    !su nioJ Guntur's Avatar
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    Illegal Immigration is one of Malaysia big problem over here,
    Cause
    -Their country have a really big problem with economic, civil war, political issues and corruption.
    -The main reason they come over here and change a new life and work at malaysia without any problem nor corruption.
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  13. #33
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    Kinda obvious with illegal immigration over in the U.S. And some people think every hispanic is an illegal immigrant, like this one guy who i had a job interview with. He was all like "so are you a legal american?" and I was like, "Yes, the papers are all in front of you! I was born in America" but I don't think he believed me because he still gave me the evil eye for the rest of the interview. And I still haven't gotten a call back about the job, so im guessing i didn't get it. But ya. I think illegal immigration is wrong , but I think the way they want to handle it (a wall) isn't really a great way to handle the situation. Phew. long post

  14. #34
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    Illegal immigration? Nah! Jus' tell them ta come to Canada! xD

    But really, the US should loosen up their restrictions a wee bit for immigrates.
    "More people, more demand for work! More work, more money!"

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