is the confederate flag different than the US flag???
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is the confederate flag different than the US flag???
Avatar drawn by Azerane - thank you! :3
This thread is too long for me right now, I've been reading, doing math, and taking tests alld ay today so I'll keep this short:
I think it should be preserved in a historic sense but not as a symbol or sign of some kind. My biggest qualm with it is that people use it as an idiotic show of rebellion, not so much an issue of racial issues (though I can see how it could offend those of African American ethnicity).
Anyway, I say ban it save for a historic remembrance. But that's just me *shrugs*
they have already removed the confederate Georgia state flag from our state period, they made some new flag that is ugly, I want them to bring back the old one!
According to a friend of mine, who's into Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr. and other leaders of the Civil Rights Movement...Malcolm X, later in life, adopted a more peaceful approach to the Civil rights Movement.Originally posted by Only-now
I believe that black people have their own things that could be offensive to us, yet they are NEVER told not to wear something like so. I mean, what about all the Malcolm X shirts? He was a militant black, who thought it was best to use violence to get your way? I think THAT should be banned as well, because it is offensive to white people...right?
Hehe...According to something i read a few months back...the Democratic Party in the 1800s was considered conservative...while the Republican party was considered to be liberal...which is opposite of what they are considered today. They were polarized in the opposite way.But there is one problem with a total rejection of all things related to slavery: It was the Democratic Party that supported it. The Republican Party was formed for the specific purpose of opposing slavery. I'll start believing the Confederate battle flag hurts somebody's feelings as soon as the existence of the Democratic Party hurts their feelings, too.
I guess many people oppose the confederate flag because the Confederacy is so closely linked to slavery...so to represent the Confederacy is also representing slavery to many people.
Well, the shirts I see referring to Malcolm X have nothing to do with his peaceful influences, and you NEVER see them supporting any peaceful demonstators. In fact, they make fun of those.
Anyways, I understand why people COULD get offended, but I think it is more the job of those people to change their mentality, and stop looking for something to be offended by. Just as with SO many other instances, someone needs SOMETHING to get upset over, so they extend theri reach to some flag, cause, etc to get people worked up.
I don't think that the flag insults our flag at all. True, it did represent that those people wanted to be seperate, but there are plenty (if not the majority) of people who would fly the confederate flag, but are still great patriots. If anything, people use it mostly for style, rebellion, or because they believe it represents the south. Almost like having a state flag but this is one of a confederation of states. I HIGHLY doubt that most people who support the Confederate flag still want to break away from the Union.
Personally, I just think it is another political correctness issue and it is REALLY getting tiring. I mean, I recently heard how Jesse Jackson said that a police department was racist against blacks because the silouette targets they shot at on the shooting range were black. I mean COME ON PEOPLE!
Oh, and to Neph...yeah, I spent about an hour trying to get that pic right. Sites kept messing up, kept having to transfer it, and I tried different sizes. Right now, I am not taking the time to change it (plus I am at school) so maybe I will try later. I did put that at 500X300 pixels though..and that is the limit right? Thats what I resized it to already.
~Kiva
Ok.=)Originally posted by Sombolia
I.. wha? A world like that would really, really suck.
Would you get upset if people were wearing swastikas, saying it represented the most powerful period of German history?Originally posted by Only-now
Personally, I just think it is another political correctness issue and it is REALLY getting tiring. I mean, I recently heard how Jesse Jackson said that a police department was racist against blacks because the silouette targets they shot at on the shooting range were black. I mean COME ON PEOPLE!
It is not a matter to get offended over when the fact behind the wearing is true... Hitler's Germany was the most powerful period in that country's history. Because the power was used for evil is the matter to get offended over. The symbol itself is merely that -- a symbol that prior to its use by the Nazi party, was merely a Hopi Indian pictogram.Would you get upset if people were wearing swastikas, saying it represented the most powerful period of German history?
I don't have a problem with it. But then, there aren't many symbols I have a problem with.
However, public schools and the like, in the interest of keeping their a**es out of the fire must try and keep the majority happy.
And by majority, I mean the people who yell the loudest.
Then yell back! :shout: But that wouldn't be enlightened, eh? So, what now? Now we're back to my first post.Originally posted by Scorplion
I don't have a problem with it. But then, there aren't many symbols I have a problem with.
However, public schools and the like, in the interest of keeping their a**es out of the fire must try and keep the majority happy.
And by majority, I mean the people who yell the loudest.
The Confederate States of America does not exist any longer, so why exactly is it a problem? Today, America is more like the Confederacy than the Union; a bunch of people who are too lazy to do their own work. The only difference between now and then is the fact that there are no slaves.
Then again, there are all those whiny children who think they have a right to not be offended or annoyed. It's like everybody on the planet wants to live in a box, where they are King/Queen of their entire box and everything inside the box goes their way and if it doesn't, they just get to start cutting off heads until they feel better.
The day people have a right to not offended or annoyed will be a day to curse forever.
I take great offense at whiny people, especially people who want to whine about the visibility of the flag of a nation that existed for about 4 years, more than a century ago.
The thing is, it's not necessarily about the actual confederacy. It's about the southern mentality that followed it, which was primarily white-supremacy. People say that it doesn't stand for racism against blacks, but if that was the case, why was the south so racist towards blacks, even through the 1960's? There was no reason for them to have segregation.Originally posted by Prince Simba
I take great offense at whiny people, especially people who want to whine about the visibility of the flag of a nation that existed for about 4 years, more than a century ago.
Maybe it's because that's the way things always were and people were just used to that.Originally posted by Xinithian
People say that it doesn't stand for racism against blacks, but if that was the case, why was the south so racist towards blacks, even through the 1960's? There was no reason for them to have segregation.
It's been proven throughout history in many soceities; drastic changes do not come easily.
Well this post stirred up some awesome points, many of which I never knew oO, but for some of the things that are added in here I guess I should now throw in my opinion:
I think that what PS said was most discribably right, they didn't know any better? They proably thought seeing them as a different skin color (and most being from britain not seeing much blacks around (excuse me if I'm wrong)) they thought them /inferior/ to which all the others were around them but they as I said didn't know any better and they were just like any other high school bully, Force them to do things because they didn't fight back(Until later on)Originally posted by Xinithian
People say that it doesn't stand for racism against blacks, but if that was the case, why was the south so racist towards blacks, even through the 1960's? There was no reason for them to have segregation.
I see this thing as a flag, and that is it. Theres more important things to be offended by than a flag that existed somewhere, a long time ago? :S
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
The flaw in that is that the blacks had proven themselves as being intelligent well before the civil war, with such black politicians as Frederick Douglass. There were also many abolitionists in the north, who viewed blacks as (almost) equal to themselves. The south intentionally hated and discriminated blacks after the 13th amendment. Such proof of this is the Grandfather clause , which made citizens of the U.S. take an extremely challenging literary test and pay an expensive voting tax if their ancestors could not vote prior to 1861 (making it nearly impossible for blacks to vote, since their ancestors could not vote legally before the civil war). There was no reason for any of these laws. The only reason why the south did this was because they felt bitter about losing slavery, and wanted to take out their frustration on the blacks, even though they should have taken it out on the northeners instead. I could see why students should be able to wear the confederate flag if the south had taken their revenge on the north (therefore not making it a racist issue but rather a political issue), but it's way too obvious that the south enacted their revenge on blacks.Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I think that what PS said was most discribably right, they didn't know any better? They proably thought seeing them as a different skin color (and most being from britain not seeing much blacks around (excuse me if I'm wrong)) they thought them /inferior/ to which all the others were around them but they as I said didn't know any better and they were just like any other high school bully, Force them to do things because they didn't fight back(Until later on)
There was a reason for those laws -- to keep blacks 'in their place' so as not to effect the changes in their society wrought by the Civil War and requisite constitutional amendments. It wasn't a good reason, but a reason nonetheless.There was no reason for any of these laws.
Exactly, so why would somebody want to wear a flag that represents that mentality?Originally posted by Darkslash
There was a reason for those laws -- to keep blacks 'in their place' so as not to effect the changes in their society wrought by the Civil War and requisite constitutional amendments. It wasn't a good reason, but a reason nonetheless.
Meh, semantics...But I think that Zinithian was basically implying that when he said there was no reason. So you guys are basically agreeing...Originally posted by Darkslash
There was a reason for those laws -- to keep blacks 'in their place' so as not to effect the changes in their society wrought by the Civil War and requisite constitutional amendments. It wasn't a good reason, but a reason nonetheless.
I agree with Xinithian...I mean, why would you want to glorify a time in history which was marked in the vast mistreatment in your fellow men? There's nothing wrong with being prideful in your Southern Heritage...but be prideful of the things that marked the advancement of the people...not a time when people were sold and traded as property.
I suppose then that the United States flag should also be banned because at one time the entire United States believed in slavery as well?
At one time the south believed in slavery, because of its economy etc, just like the United States did. The primary reason that slavery did not exist in the North is NOT because those people were more enlightened, or morally more intelligent, but because they had become more industrial.
The view that blacks were inferior in the south came from the fact that their culture was much different from that of the white culture. In a way, it could not be avoided..because where they were taken from was NOT as developed as the European cultures. They still lived in tribes, hunted with spears, etc. Thus, the skin color only became a way to recognize, and eventually became the typical viewpoint.
The Confederate flag has to be interpreted as racist for it to be offensive. The reason that most people wear it is NOT because they are racists, or believe in slavery. I think that THIS is the fact that should be recognized, and not that the people who wear this flag be supressed. People do not wear it because they want to represent the slavery of the south, but because this is a symbol that is inherently south because that is exactly what it stood for.
By the way, sorry about bringing up an old topic, but I am bored and wanted something to post about..hehe.
~Kiva
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