Moderator Approval Ratings...

[Sadiki]

well I really wanted to see what you think about those 3 subjects and see what you would do. and the main reason was that I knew opinions gonna split.
especially on swearing it did. That swearing is not bothering most of people doesn't mean it need to be used and what Pnt said that there is places where you need swearing is not true at least that stuff doesn't belong on this board. I seriously can't think of any situation where you can't replace swearing with something else.

About arguings and threads where some people attack on each other, we have yet never just close the thread right away. but after it just keeps going on and on and on. the only way is to close it, sinse it doesn't seems those people want to take it to somewhere else sinse any of the subjects on Lea have purpouse to insult anyone or start flame wars.

Third question was made for an instance that some members, not telling the names have gotten annoied with. I personally don't really care as long as people don't make 5 threads like that per day and that way cause troubles for running the server. also this wanted to show that people can never agree about anything, there is always someone who thinks otherwise. So it seriously isn't a easy job to choose between right and wrong.

[Sadiki]

by saying quite the nonsense, I ment that blameing it on each other is not going to get us anywhere. We have to consentrate on the problem(s) whatever those are.
I don't think any of moderators have abuse their powers, yet in some cases I wish there would be more talking on moderator forum about the thing before takeing action.
I can't say anything about the way other moderators work, but I personaly do lisen what members have to say, but it is a lot easier to talk with you all about it and see what you have to say, if you contact me some other way then posting it on forum, just beacause it easily gets lost between lines/posts. So don't be afraid to contact us, I bet others then me want to hear about your ideas too. posting it on board isn't just the best option honestly.

[Juniper]

Okay, so we've all said what we needed to say, by my knowledge at least, and this is getting rather repetitive. If you have something else to add, and it's constructive, then by all means add it.


So here's the next part of the issue:

Moderators -- Are you willing to:

1. Respect the concerns of the forum members and try to work with us to come to a solution. Likewise, don't argue with eachother forever and eventually not do anything.

2. Not use personal grudge or emotion in making a moderating decision. Use reason and a level-head when dealing with a possible rule infraction.

3. Allow the members a decent chance to solve their own issues and respect that everyone on this board is capable of coming to an agreement on his/her own ability. Realize that we are all human, and we are all capable as human beings of both making mistakes, and correcting them therein.

4. Not close a thread and then add a personal remark, reply to another board user, add your own opinion, or otherwise say something that would normally be replied to. Likewise, not post such things after a thread is closed.

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

6. In no way otherwise abuse the power you have as a moderator or use it in a way that is sarcastic, personal, or out-of-proportion to the issue at hand.

7. Be forgiving in certain situations, even in rule infractions. The purpose of a "Warning" is not to bring a person closer to banning, but to help them avert such a action being taken.

8. Realize that you are able to have this forum continue like clockwork given less-than-perfect conditions, such as the absence of an administrator (or other moderator) or other situations. Finally, you do not need to run everything by Mufasa.

Members -- Are you willing to:

1. Realize that the mods as a whole mean well for the forum.

2. Realize that the mods are also human and just as capable of mistakes.

3. Be forgiving when a moderator does something wrong (but not outrageous), as the moderators will be equally forgiving when a member does something wrong (but not outrageous).

4. Realize that the moderators are trying very hard to provide a good posting environment for all the users of this board to post in. Likewise, if they are constantly told they're doing badly, that's going to hurt them like it would any other person.

5. Be willing to take care of your own posts, as the job of keeping order does not rest solely on the staff. This includes taking your personal issues to a private means should you feel the need to argue about something in a way that would be breaking a forum rule. Keep in mind that that harrassment through PM is just as bad, if not worse, as harrassment in a thread or post.

6. Be willing to bring up a concern in a mature and polite way, instead of throwing insults or otherwise acting inappropriately.

7. Be willing to not hold grudges either, as the moderators will be returning the favor.

8. Be willing to give the staff the same respect you yourself would expect to be given.

9. Be willing to use that decent chance to resolve your issues with someone before a thread is closed to actually resolve you issues with someone before a thread is closed.



Can everyone agree to:

Stop with this constant bickering that is present anywhere and everywhere on this forum.

I for one can say "Yes" on my part. I think if a person has a problem with any of those points above, and cannot give a legitimate reason, that person is a hindrance to the general order of the forum. If both members and moderators can agree to these points, and will follow through with it, I think the situation can be called resolved. And even if someone thinks they haven't violated even one of those things, then hey, I'm sure you won't have any problem agreeing to those.


Edit: Okay, edited it a few times for clarification and because someone brought up another point that needed added. It's done being edited.

[Kovu The Lion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_moderator

Among a moderator's enforcement duties is often the duty to stop flaming and keep the board a friendly place, free of personal insults

By Wikipedia itself

I agree so much with Pnt its not even funny, You tell us to take some action by making judgements ourself on things, and to use this report button because its not you're job to look over everything? Pfft. Dude, As Moderators that is You're job, Hence "Moderator" "Moderate" ? See a connection? Mmkay good. Thats why every one here at Lea is not a Moderator, because its not there job, but a select fews to do the "Policing" and "counciling" of the boards.

What I see now is, That when the embers have a problem. The mods don't even want to help solve it, Even if it meant taking away just a little bit of their "Oh so mighty" power.

Would it REALLY Kill you to not post in a closed topic? I mean really. Are you* that immature as to not want to be able to be like the rest of us? Meh

I don't really get what is up with the moderators of Lea, but some I agree with, and am glad that are agreeing with us, and that there is a problem and are trying to set things straight. But then theirs some that tell us to "Get over it" or whatever, and some that tell us to "Back off", Let me tell the Mods something. Just because you say "Back off" Doesnt mean we have to. We have every right to post, and come back to a topic, at any time and place, just like you guys do. when you tell a member to "back off" thats just saying you are beating you're chests, showing off you're power to try and make yourself look big and fancy.

But one thing thats been addressed, and still no conclusion, the closed topic crap, and the snitcy picky going on with sarcasmic things that Mods post, and thier over abusing powers. Such as this here:

Originally posted by nathalie
Why on earth do you need to write those words anyway?

And if we decide to put those words in the filter, then we will put those words in the filter.

That my friends, is power abusing. Which is something No moderator or member should do, but mostly mods because members have NO powers what so ever. When a debate comes up, and a mod says "Shut up now" and you don't. Oh you get in trouble for not listening. But if a Mod posts after the "shut up" has been giving, its alright for them because they are Mods and can do what they want and when they want in a post.

More stuff I'd like to point out:

Nathalie
Aargh, see, I don't come on for 1 evening and stuff happens.

1. Neph didn't do anything wrong. She closed it and said the right thing about going to that other thread.
2. This mod bashing that goes on ... don't worry, actions will be definatly taken, no one calls me or any other mod an asswhole anymore !
3. This Land: if you wanna quit school, talk to your parents about it

This is taken from "Thanks Neph" That post, was not even necessary. Nathalie no offense. But you saying exactly what I said doesnt even help the situation! You just bring it back up again and try to start the whole thing over. But whats this. It can't because its closed. What I'm trying to say is. When their is a closed topic, no matter who it is. A mod will always post in it and give their opinion, and sometimes state something that might not have been true, and the person who was said towards can't defend themselves.. like this:

Nephilim
Wow, I kind of get the feeling this thread was made to start problems.

Seriously, I've never seen anything quite as ridiculous as this on Lea. Guh! As anti-religious as I am, and as much as Bible passages make me roll my eyes sometimes, people have the right to put what they want! (So long as it's not adult material. )

I'm gonna go and close this thread, to stop a surge of wank.

I agree that the thread should have been closed, just because of the attacks in that "bible verses" thread. But this part

and as much as Bible passages make me roll my eyes sometimes,

Was not necessary. Was that not.. Harassment to the christian belief? Hmm reportable.. uh oh oO But yeah sorry if its not but I believe that it is.

Another thing I'd like to point out about closing threads is this:

Sonique
That site has adult-oriented material on it, and can't be presented here. Now, if you can find another site that has the same advert with its decency intact, that's fine. Regardless, this thread is hereby closed...

No offense or bad thoughts to you Sonique, but you told the guy to find another site possible for that advert (The banned x-box 360 commercial) But you closed the thread. From what I've seen at lea for multiple threads being created that have been made already. If he had made a new thread about it, I can see right about now him being flamed "This has already been made before.." or "Stop posting the same stuff over and over" or "theres a thread here already use it!" But the last one doesnt fit this one since its closed, but those can be used. Not only do the Mods do this, but the members are guilty also, for harassing and spamming about threads being bumped up, and multiple threads being created.

I think I've said enough.. and will probably get a lot of abuse from this post. But it is my opinions, and I am entitled to them fully. And if you don't like it, do what the Moderators say "Get over it"

*You does not mean you STM, but of the Mods that are not agreeing with us right now.

~KTL

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by pntbll248

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

Thats another thing I wanted to bring up but couldnt think of it,

Moderators you are here to enforce the rules of the Forums. Not tell us what we can and can not do (Unless the things you say is in the Rules themselves) Like I said in the other forums when you say "Back off" Or "Dont post here" We don't have to listen to a word you say on that. Its not in the rules that says "obey the mods, they are your gods and masters" So how about, Don't act like it and things would be a lot better.

And Kiva stated that only a select few have problems with the mods? Maybe thats because they have problems with us Perhaps you just havn't been caught at the wrong time at the right moment. Or whatever the saying is. You you'reself Kiva said that The mods weren't evil people trying to abuse their powers, then you turn around and contradict yourself saying they use their powers the wrong way? Dude oO I"m lost lol, I'm on both sides of this arguments, i'm with the Mods, and Members. All I'm trying to state is that well nevermind its been said here about a thousand times. so no point in saying it

I myself, agree with Pnt's demands (Not really but suggestions) But the thing I have in my head now, Is the moderators wont accept it because they dont want to look like normal people. They want to look higher and above the regular person in the forums. but hell for all I could know, they all could agree. But somewhere in my mind I just don't see it happening in this day and time, especially not at Lea.

but its just saddening to see such a nice forums like this having this happening, but I know other forusm that are spammed 24/7 and the members still agree and the modds still agree with each other. But here, asking a little thing of the mods they wont even DO it. There, they would because well. The fact is without members, there are no mods.

~KTL

And with that I'm out,

EDIT:

Also I've noticed a high number of mods, and even our own admin Nathalie, going invisible. Why that sudden change? In this thread here
To the Mods, who continue to say "Moderators are the same as members" So that means you are the same as us, Members.

Answer Nathalie's first post question. Are you afraid that we will see what you are looking at? Are you scared for you're name to show up on the online list? Just seems funny how you'd complain about it, then do it yourself. Heh

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Moderators you are here to enforce the rules of the Forums. Not tell us what we can and can not do (Unless the things you say is in the Rules themselves) Like I said in the other forums when you say "Back off" Or "Dont post here" We don't have to listen to a word you say on that. Its not in the rules that says "obey the mods, they are your gods and masters" So how about, Don't act like it and things would be a lot better.

My personal view on it is that if a rule isn't broken, then a mod telling a member to do something is just like a member telling a member to do something, it isn't required in any way, but if it's not something you wanna get worked up over, then don't. Just thought I'd get it in the open that the moderators are here to enforce the rules, and have every right to do so, but we are supposed to follow the rules, not the mods. If you have broken a rule, however, and the moderator decides to deal with it (and it's all justified), then hey, that's a whole different ball game.

And don't worry, bud, I think the vast majority of forum users would be able to reach this agreement as long as the other side is willing to as well.


Edit: Just adressing your concern over some people going invisible; I personally like being invisible, that way no one knows when or where I'm gonna strike next

[Aurelian]

I don't know about the other mods, but I have made it a point not to retort in a closed thread. If i am going to lock somthing, I will state the action taken and the reason, and nothing more. I do not believe in using powers meant to help the forum for my own personal use. But that's me.

As for Pnt's list, I think it is an extremely good start, and while I need to do some self work on some of them, namely the emotional issues, I intend to do my absoulte best to work with those ideals.

[Only-now]

What exactly IS the problem on the board here? What exactly needs to change? People keep saying "Oh, the mods are being abusive, etc" okay...so what WOULD you like the board to work like? Maybe instead of pointing out every instance in which a mod did something you didn't like, give an idea on how to improve what you don't like.

KTL, on EVERY thread ALL you do is criticize mods, and pretty much every single one of them. The majority of your post is pointing out how the mods are failing, but you FAIL to help much at all. STM is right that it is the responsibility of ALL members to make judgments about their own behavior, etc. Apparently, A LOT of people are lacking that ability. Mods ARE supposed to moderate, but only in the situation where there is an argument, flame etc. It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread. Apparently, the people on Lea are NOT as mature as once thought if the mods DO have to do that. People should be able to solve some problems themselves, and the fact that that isnt the case leads me to believe this is one of the reasons mods close threads so quickly. No one here CAN solve problems themselves, and when they actually manage to, and the mods have closed the thread, it is unacceptable. I think that the members set the stage, and the mods act on it...it is a mistake to close the thread, but they used their judgement based off of what the members set up over the months and weeks before.

I REALLY fail to see the huge problem with mods here, and it seems to only be perpetuated by Pnt and KTL here. I don't see many other members that are outraged, or unsatisifed. Personally, I think you guys are doing more harm than good. You say that mods are allowed to make mistake, yet when they do, you connect each one together like it is a trend when it isn't. Nathalie makes some mistakes, Neph is a little harsh, Sonique closes a thread, etc. Then you just link all those together when they are completely seperate, and make it seem like it is a forum problem. You LOOK for something to point out that is wrong. I am not someone who agrees with the mods every time. Sonque has made me disagree with him, same with the posting in closed threads, but you guys are taking this way too far and making this a much less enjoyable place to be.

~Kiva

[Only-now]

There is a difference between being "evil" and making mistakes with your powers SOMETIMES. I never said the mods always abuse their powers etc...maybe you need to read a bit more closelt next time.

I agree with Pnt's suggestions, and maybe you do have a legitimate concern..but KTL..it seems like you DO have a personal grudge against the mods. Pnt was trying to solve the situation, by listing those reasons, but in your post..you instantly bring up something that makes the mods look worse. You apparently think that they are out there just to control us, and that isnt the vibe I get from Pnt. You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...that just proves that you do have a personal vendetta against them. The reason I don't have a problem with the mods is because I don't break the rules, and if I do, I don't then spend every opportunity I have criticizing them.

Anyways, I think that those are very logical and normal suggestions. The only thing that I have a "problem" with is the fact that this all came up in the first place. I never saw a problem that was as bad as these threads made it out to be. If that will solve your problem, and make you feel better, etc..then that is fine. Anything to stop this drama that i personally never saw a need for is much appreciated. It almost reminds me of the Bill Of Rights. It was repetitive, and such..but it made he states happy, so they had to include it. Same there here, there is no major problem, but a few people think so (for whatever reasons) and thus have to have this "bill of rights" agreed to to make everything alright. If that works this out, then it is perfectly fine with me...even though I am not someone who saw a problem THIS large.

~Kiva

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Only-now
What exactly IS the problem on the board here? What exactly needs to change? People keep saying "Oh, the mods are being abusive, etc" okay...so what WOULD you like the board to work like? Maybe instead of pointing out every instance in which a mod did something you didn't like, give an idea on how to improve what you don't like.

KTL, on EVERY thread ALL you do is criticize mods, and pretty much every single one of them. The majority of your post is pointing out how the mods are failing, but you FAIL to help much at all. STM is right that it is the responsibility of ALL members to make judgments about their own behavior, etc. Apparently, A LOT of people are lacking that ability. Mods ARE supposed to moderate, but only in the situation where there is an argument, flame etc. It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread. Apparently, the people on Lea are NOT as mature as once thought if the mods DO have to do that. People should be able to solve some problems themselves, and the fact that that isnt the case leads me to believe this is one of the reasons mods close threads so quickly. No one here CAN solve problems themselves, and when they actually manage to, and the mods have closed the thread, it is unacceptable. I think that the members set the stage, and the mods act on it...it is a mistake to close the thread, but they used their judgement based off of what the members set up over the months and weeks before.

I REALLY fail to see the huge problem with mods here, and it seems to only be perpetuated by Pnt and KTL here. I don't see many other members that are outraged, or unsatisifed. Personally, I think you guys are doing more harm than good. You say that mods are allowed to make mistake, yet when they do, you connect each one together like it is a trend when it isn't. Nathalie makes some mistakes, Neph is a little harsh, Sonique closes a thread, etc. Then you just link all those together when they are completely seperate, and make it seem like it is a forum problem. You LOOK for something to point out that is wrong. I am not someone who agrees with the mods every time. Sonque has made me disagree with him, same with the posting in closed threads, but you guys are taking this way too far and making this a much less enjoyable place to be.

~Kiva

Oh hell no you didn't. I'm not getting to far in here, but all you can do is read this:

Kovu The Lion
But the word Mod is probably used to describe more good than bad, thanks to the so called "Reputation' The moderators are putting upon themselves. And some are doing an EXCELLENT job, and its just a select few that are making mistakes, and making the members use once again "The Moderators" and the mods once again think. "I havn't done that" or "When did I do this.." when the member was actually trying to convey the point to someone directly, but can't because they can't say a members name or they'd get in trouble.

and I've also stated PLENTY of times that I'm with the mods on many decisions, But some I just don't find constitutional, or right and what the hell and who the heck gave you the permission to call me out like that, with crap that wasn't even true? I'm not turning this into a flame war however. But if you want to know what we are fighting for. Read the thread Kiva.

Kiva
You LOOK for something to point out that is wrong.

I wonder what you're last post just was..

If I were like you in certain situations, I would report you so badly for that post.

And as already said this is what we want done:

Pntbll248
Moderators -- Are you willing to:

1. Respect the concerns of the forum members and try to work with us to come to a solution. Likewise, don't argue with eachother forever and eventually not do anything.

2. Not use personal grudge or emotion in making a moderating decision. Use reason and a level-head when dealing with a possible rule infraction.

3. Allow the members a decent chance to solve their own issues and respect that everyone on this board is capable of coming to an agreement on his/her own ability. Realize that we are all human, and we are all capable as human beings of both making mistakes, and correcting them therein.

4. Not close a thread and then add a personal remark, reply to another board user, add your own opinion, or otherwise say something that would normally be replied to. Likewise, not post such things after a thread is closed.

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

6. In no way otherwise abuse the power you have as a moderator or use it in a way that is sarcastic, personal, or out-of-proportion to the issue at hand.

7. Be forgiving in certain situations, even in rule infractions. The purpose of a "Warning" is not to bring a person closer to banning, but to help them avert such a action being taken.

8. Realize that you are able to have this forum continue like clockwork given less-than-perfect conditions, such as the absence of an administrator (or other moderator) or other situations. Finally, you do not need to run everything by Mufasa.

Members -- Are you willing to:

1. Realize that the mods as a whole mean well for the forum.

2. Realize that the mods are also human and just as capable of mistakes.

3. Be forgiving when a moderator does something wrong (but not outrageous), as the moderators will be equally forgiving when a member does something wrong (but not outrageous).

4. Realize that the moderators are trying very hard to provide a good posting environment for all the users of this board to post in. Likewise, if they are constantly told they're doing badly, that's going to hurt them like it would any other person.

5. Be willing to take care of your own posts, as the job of keeping order does not rest solely on the staff. This includes taking your personal issues to a private means should you feel the need to argue about something in a way that would be breaking a forum rule. Keep in mind that that harrassment through PM is just as bad, if not worse, as harrassment in a thread or post.

6. Be willing to bring up a concern in a mature and polite way, instead of throwing insults or otherwise acting inappropriately.

7. Be willing to not hold grudges either, as the moderators will be returning the favor.

8. Be willing to give the staff the same respect you yourself would expect to be given.

9. Be willing to use that decent chance to resolve your issues with someone before a thread is closed to actually resolve you issues with someone before a thread is closed.

Only-now
It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread.

I beg to differ, I read every post thats made in lea because its a slow forums and theres nothing else to do. Try doing stuff before you talk bud.

No one here CAN solve problems themselves,

Which is why we have asked the mods to try and change themselves, also stating that we the members would change. I don't know where you have been bud. But a LOT of members harass the Mods, either it be on the forums, or in a PM, It HAPPENS. And I'm sorry that you don't want to agree with us and our problems here, that you are just so fucking perfect and you don't see the real atmosphere of these situations. If you read I swear you would find other members who would agree, like W-eyed-wanderer. But nah, you'd rather post you're own opinions and attack others with stuff that aint true Right?

You say that mods are allowed to make mistake, yet when they do, you connect each one together like it is a trend when it isn't. Nathalie makes some mistakes, Neph is a little harsh, Sonique closes a thread, etc. Then you just link all those together when they are completely seperate, and make it seem like it is a forum problem

The reason I do, Because if I can give examples, maybe people unlike you will start to see that there is a problem here, and that it does need to be solved and that it is affecting people. If not the whole forums, but a few select people that care

~KTL

[Nicoga]

To be perfectly honest, this place is starting to scare me. And I mean, SCARE ME. I've seen some pretty harsh things said about the mods, some even blown out of proportions to the point where they become all-out lies just to chip at their emotional state, and I've seen mods turn member concerns down and use the "thread lock" option to post their opinion without getting flamed. I came here to make friends and this is what I see.

Needless to say, I haven't made any GOOD good friends, and possibly only two. People are too busy BICKERING and disrespecting each other that they have lost sight of why Lea is even existing: to be a FRIENDLY, LION KING-related forum.

I'm not taking sides on this matter simply because I feel pretty much outcast by most of the people here, but this is just ridiculous. Members should NOT be hating the mods as much as they do and insulting them at every little bad thing that happens! Mods should not be ignoring member concerns and only inciting more hatred by using their powers of the almighty as a sword and shield! The problem is not the mods. The problem is not the members. It's BOTH the mods AND the members. Most people here are picking sides and just blatantly attacking the opposition, without seeing the GOOD they bring with them. Members make this site what it is and provide some interesting topics. Mods keep the flame wars down to a minimum and protect those that feel threatened.

But quite honestly, I expected better out of this place... It's very beautifully put together, it has links to all around the world, and the majority of people here are nice, different opinions or not. I may not be as attached to Lea as most people are, but it hurts to even open the website for it...

I dunno, it may have been a huge mistake even signing up here. And if this keeps rolling on and on with all the hatred and troubles and crap, I'm gonna leave before my sanity dries up.

Otherwise, good luck. There ain't squat this little newbie can do to change anything with this war going on.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Only-now
There is a difference between being "evil" and making mistakes with your powers SOMETIMES. I never said the mods always abuse their powers etc...maybe you need to read a bit more closelt next time.

I agree with Pnt's suggestions, and maybe you do have a legitimate concern..but KTL..it seems like you DO have a personal grudge against the mods. Pnt was trying to solve the situation, by listing those reasons, but in your post..you instantly bring up something that makes the mods look worse. You apparently think that they are out there just to control us, and that isnt the vibe I get from Pnt. You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...that just proves that you do have a personal vendetta against them. The reason I don't have a problem with the mods is because I don't break the rules, and if I do, I don't then spend every opportunity I have criticizing them.

Anyways, I think that those are very logical and normal suggestions. The only thing that I have a "problem" with is the fact that this all came up in the first place. I never saw a problem that was as bad as these threads made it out to be. If that will solve your problem, and make you feel better, etc..then that is fine. Anything to stop this drama that i personally never saw a need for is much appreciated. It almost reminds me of the Bill Of Rights. It was repetitive, and such..but it made he states happy, so they had to include it. Same there here, there is no major problem, but a few people think so (for whatever reasons) and thus have to have this "bill of rights" agreed to to make everything alright. If that works this out, then it is perfectly fine with me...even though I am not someone who saw a problem THIS large.

~Kiva

Kiva, If the mods dont want to look bad, they shouldn't do bad things, no? Now please stop calling me out, and making me look like a complete *** hole. I have no problems with the Moderators, I have problems with the way they run things, but not the people and that is a BIG difference, Thats where you do not SEE WHAT I AM DOING.

You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...

Nope, Sonique did that himself by saying he wouldn't agree with the posting in closed topics stuff You probably don't see this as a big problem, because you hav'nt been affected yet, and nothing has happened to you. so you have nothing to relate to. and have no reason to do anything at all. With that said, I'm taking a nap. I don't need this.

~KTL

[Utora]

Originally posted by Only-now
..but KTL..it seems like you DO have a personal grudge against the mods. Pnt was trying to solve the situation, by listing those reasons, but in your post..you instantly bring up something that makes the mods look worse. You apparently think that they are out there just to control us, and that isnt the vibe I get from Pnt. You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...that just proves that you do have a personal vendetta against them. The reason I don't have a problem with the mods is because I don't break the rules, and if I do, I don't then spend every opportunity I have criticizing them.

~Kiva

You apparently think that they are out there just to control us -

Moderators you are here to enforce the rules of the Forums. Not tell us what we can and can not do (Unless the things you say is in the Rules themselves) Like I said in the other forums when you say "Back off" Or "Dont post here" We don't have to listen to a word you say on that. Its not in the rules that says "obey the mods, they are your gods and masters" So how about, Don't act like it and things would be a lot better.

Kivitts is right, I sense that you feel the Moderators are just there controlling us - which doesn't mean you now need to get angry and flame me or any person which you haven't yet but I'm stating for posts after this. Kiva is trying to show you another aspect. If you think he's making you an *** by doing so, then I find it impossible for us to ever settle this.

Kiva, If the mods dont want to look bad, they shouldn't do bad things, no? Now please stop calling me out, and making me look like a complete *** hole.

He's not - he's replying to your posts with the same approach as you.

[Aurelian]

KTL, Kiva, time to seperate a bit. Going at eachother throats won't do a thing.

Kiva, I'm glad all looks well to you. That means YOU are doing somthing right. However, while the forum isn't dieing as KTL is saying, there is definatly some room for major improovement. As Pnt stated, I don't think the board needs to change, just the members within(meaning mods too). Not change who we are, but how we react to situations. Meanwhile, I am going to see if I can work out a few things that might at least reasure everybody.

[Amaryllis]

Originally posted by Nicoga
To be perfectly honest, this place is starting to scare me. And I mean, SCARE ME.

im with you.

Didnt this forum start with certain rules, and arent moderators like the second bosses next to *in this case Mufasa* the owner of the forum?

My statement ?nd opinion: If you don't like any of the rules, ?re the moderators, then please leave.

If im not mistaken, Mufasa is the one who gives certain people the moderating honor, and if he believes that th?y are the ones who should have it, then th?y are right. So is Mufasa.

Anyways, this is just my opinion, i didn't mean this post as in a mean way ore anything. I actually agree with every single one of you, that's why this is hard for me to give any opinion. I will say one thing though: this forum has changed completely then when i just joined, and i think that's a pity.. Because i miss the old lea, the lea where i'd admire moderators and where i wanted to be one. Where i could be proud at decent people. But its all gone now, not forgotten though. I really wish i could turn back time..

[Sadiki]

"Also I've noticed a high number of mods, and even our own admin Nathalie, going invisible. Why that sudden change? In this thread here
To the Mods, who continue to say "Moderators are the same as members" So that means you are the same as us, Members."~KTL

I do think Nathalie have been invisible for as long as I remember

not more to add here yet. I will take more careful look when I have time. which is not now sinse I gotta work in 15 mins.

[Aurelian]

With all due respect to Nuka and KTL, I took it upon myself to merge the "Moderator approval' thread and the "Repoting?" thread, as they had become to of the same conversation.

If either of the above mentioned people have a problem with this, drop me a PM, and I will un-merge them(Difficult and time consuming, but possible).

[Utora]

I think the merging was wise. I almost became confused and felt I as posting the same discussion in both topics. Danke Roquits.

[Sombolia]

Originally posted by Sonkakee
... And my common sense tells me that you'll have to get over it, because that's the way it is....

It's the way things are, but it's not the way they should be. I, too, think it's unfair that mods continue to post in closed threads--as they are, infact, closed.

Was that not.. Harassment to the christian belief?

Perhaps, but certainly not reportable, as Neph wasn't insulting anyone on the forum.

It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread.

Just like it is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for every city to have police. Uh, no. That's their job, their duty as mods.

Also I've noticed a high number of mods, and even our own admin Nathalie, going invisible. Why that sudden change? In this thread here
To the Mods, who continue to say "Moderators are the same as members" So that means you are the same as us, Members

Members can go invisible, too.

[Vidan]

Just to let you guys know I have been following this thread. Hard to respond to each individual point, as there's been so much back and forth.

I'll reiterate some things I posted just now in the moderator forum:

1) We have a good deal of very intelligent members who are opinionated and strong-willed. The type of people who would make good CEO's of companies, or future politicians, or leaders of non-profit organizations. The type of people who have good ideas and will work hard to set them in motion. A greater percentage, I believe, than any other forum I go to regularly.

There's a bit of inevitability, given this, that there will be a butting of heads over certain issues, but I'd hope that we (that includes the moderators) can use our collective energies to keep things in balance, recognize differeing opinions are a condition of our strength and diversity and not an attempt to disturb the peace of the forum.

As moderators, we'll give it our all to recognize this strength and diversity and not sweep it under the rug.


2) I've always been of the opinion that a certain amount of interpersonal conflict cannot be avoided but that people can and will resolve the situation amongst themselves if they have the capacity at the time to be reasonable. Of course, I will step in if something has gone too far and it seems that those involved in an argument are letting their emotions get the best of them.

I see a moderator as a third party giving someone, or more than one person, a "reality check," that is, letting them know if something is getting out of hand, just in case they've been blinded a bit by the emotions and energy of a conversation, or perhaps started to take something personally without realizing it, which happens. This allows the member(s) to take a step back and look at how they're conducting themselves on the forum, thereby empowering them to use their own good judgement to take a more reasonable approach to a situation.

When you think about it, there are very few members here who may have been out of favor with the members of the forum (again, moderators included) who haven't recognized, sometimes by themselves, and sometimes with a little moderator support, that they were taking things too far.

In other words, members who go too far are usually not themselves at that time and just need all of our support to return to a sense of normalcy. It's because we care about people that we (moderators and members) will let someone know if they've crossed the line.

Those who have been banned in the past have been, for the most part, people who either never gained our trust and respect from the beginning or, for some reason, made some sort of conscious decision to cause grief to other members without regard to the consequences.


What I'm trying to get at here is that, as much as occassionally we may fight amongst ourselves, we still care about each other, and it's important to remember that. Also,


a) If a moderator may occassionally seem overbearing, then it's because they are concerned. If they start going on a power trip, then that's a behavior that needs to change, and I think we rarely succumb to that. The ideal is, of course, for it never to happen.


b) If a member seems to suddenly change their behavior and start lashing out at other members, there's probably a reason, and it might not necessarily have to do with you. Take a step back before you lash out at them, lest a flame war start.

If the behavior continues, expect the moderators to step in. Let us know, of course, but expect that if the member in question admits they were not themselves or expresses regret for their recent behavior, that we will show forgiveness, and you should consider doing the same.

There may be situations in which a member has wronged you to the point where you can't forgive them, but for the sake of all of us, keep grudges off the forum, and avoid talking to them if you know it would cause a disruption to the forum.



That's really the heart of the matter. It's the power trips and flames that have caused so much turmoil in the past week. Since we're all members, it's something we need to be aware of and work on.