Same-sex Marriage.

[saitenyo]

Sweet jesus, can you not wall-o-text? Urgh.

Pardon? I spaced out my answers with paragraphs to make them readable, and this reply of yours is almost as long as mine so I'm not sure what your problem is? I was trying to explain things clearly and in detail to avoid confusion. I really think it's unnecessary to resort to making this discussion personal by complaining about how I write my replies.

"Which is what anyone should be prepared to do if they want their opinions listened to and respected publicly."

Idc if they're not respected.

Fair enough. But may I ask what the point of sharing your opinion is if you don't care what anyone thinks of it? You asked why it was necessary for me to share mine, so let me pose that same question to you now.

" Anyone who votes influences the law on marriage, so yes, I do think speaking my mind is going to help because every person whose mind I can change is one less person keeping these changes from happening."

You're not going to change someone's mind when their mind is already made up.

That's a very depressing and defeatist attitude. If everyone thought like this, we'd never see any progress. If this were true, women would still be considered the property of men, slavery would still be legal, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. History and my own personal experience in these sorts of discussions provide countless examples of just how incorrect this claim of yours is. There are plenty of reasons people may hold certain prejudices that may be difficult to change, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, and it's certainly no reason not to try. I have personally seen plenty of people's minds changed in discussions like these, especially since these sorts of opinions are often the product of ignorance and lack of understanding. So I'm going to keep on trying.

I didn't mention the change of words, stop jumping to conclusions.

You said you agreed with Simba's argument that wanting a ceremonial marriage is an attack on Christianity. Did you actually read the argument that you were agreeing with? He was making the "why can't they call it something else?" argument. If you're agreeing with him, then what you're agreeing with is the notion that "marriage" is a term that should be reserved for Christian unions. You also said: "Change is a decision, it's not something out of the control of people, so using that as an argument is kinda silly because you're implying that things must change. And last time I checked, marriage wasn't just a word. We have verbs adjective nouns etc to describe what a word applies to."
It sounded to me like you're speaking in defense of marriage as a Christian-specific term. Did I misunderstand?

And feeling that a specific group/ethnicity/whatever is entitled to marriage doesn't reek of entitlement?

No. I am referring to the scenario of an already privileged group feeling that they deserve to retain their special privileges where others do not deserve the same treatment. Feeling that a specific group that is current barred from having the same rights and privileges as others deserves the same fair treatment is not even remotely the same thing. I am not saying gay couples deserve special treatment, I am saying that they deserve the same freedoms as any other couple, which they do not currently have.

You can feel something is afoot without knowing the motive behind it. And what the f*ck reason would I have to be prejudiced on the issue, I'm bi myself. I'm just not a slave to this issue because I think too many supporters of it are whining instead of making the best of what is currently to be had. Jeez, if you love enough why be desperate for marriage? love is love, its simple. Also I'm offended you assume that my beliefs are led by some illogical prejudice. there are two sides to every coin.

Well my apologies then. I sure never would have guessed you were bi considering how adamantly you're fighting against a cause which affects people of your orientation and the fact that you were defending someone who was claiming gay marriage is an attack on Christianity. :/ It may not be important to you but it is actually important to others, and just because it's not something that you care about does not mean you should go around trivializing the feelings of those that do and agreeing with such absurd concepts as separate but equal.

It is still extremely narrowminded of you to assume that everyone must think exactly as you do. Marriage means different things to different people. I've grown up in a culture where marriage is romanticized and treated as a symbolic act of lifelong monogamy. It doesn't matter to me whether or not it has any real bearing on my love for my significant other, I still want it. It's symbolically important to me. It means something to me from a cultural perspective. Whether or not someone wants a marriage is a personal choice and frankly, it's none of your business why someone might want one since it does not affect you. So you don't care about marriage, good for you. But you could at least show a little sensitivity and respect to people who do and acknowledge that they should be allowed to make their own personal choices about what is important in their own lives.

You didnt really answer that one and im kinda confused, and it was very very long.

Ok, in simple terms: Making up another word specifically for gay marriages is silly and unconstitutional because 1-It probably won't catch on because people are already used to using the word "marriage" to refer to legal unions between couples. And 2-Religion has no right to dictate government policy, and so far I have not heard any argument other than religious ones for why gay couples should not be allowed to call their union a "marriage."

It sounds to me like much of this has been a misunderstanding, because you claimed to agree with an argument you apparently don't actually support. If it has been a misunderstanding, I apologize. I genuinely have no idea what your opinion on this is at this point, as I approached this from the understanding that you were agreeing with Simba's "gay marriage is an attack on Christianity" argument. Perhaps now would be a good time to clarify why you said you agreed with him?