xDOriginally posted by Sombolia
MoS, seriously? You mean.. if Scar were gay.. they never would have made SP..?
....
*slaps Scar* Why are you heterosexual, darnit! ;P
I don't know if it's even remotely true. Although, it'd be cool as sin.Pride! XD
Thanks: 0
xDOriginally posted by Sombolia
MoS, seriously? You mean.. if Scar were gay.. they never would have made SP..?
....
*slaps Scar* Why are you heterosexual, darnit! ;P
I don't know if it's even remotely true. Although, it'd be cool as sin.
That is just bullsh*t.
why the hell do we want to talk about this in a film, its a film, a brilliant one too, why criticise it ???
TLK is a disgusting cartoon version of soft porn, and should be banned!
What, Phantom?
I think he was being sarcastic...
And I wasn't attacking TLK for anything... So I don't know why you both're getting huffy about it. x.x Scar + being gay = awesome.
Because differences of opinions make the world interesting.Originally posted by This land
why the hell do we want to talk about this in a film, its a film, a brilliant one too, why criticise it ???
Not everyone thinks it's brilliant.. and critisism isn't always bad...Originally posted by This land
why the hell do we want to talk about this in a film, its a film, a brilliant one too, why criticise it ???
Totally. xDOriginally posted by Melody of Scar
Scar + being gay = awesome.
Originally posted by PhantomBPR
TLK is a disgusting cartoon version of soft porn,...Why do you think I love it....
or maybe you the first one who should be bannedOriginally posted by PhantomBPR
TLK is a disgusting cartoon version of soft porn, and should be banned!
*shakes head*
Seriously, this person who wrote that book is just another one of those morons who doesn't have a life and is trying to degrade Disney. Tons of people try to do it.
If this author thinks that TLK is sexist, then he most likely doesn't know a freakin' thing about real lions.
Being Hispanic, myself, I find it offending that this author even had the slightest idea of TLK being racist towards Hispanics. Just because Banzai is voiced by a Mexican, he assumes that TLK is racist towards Hispanics?*raises eyebrow* No. Just no.
I'm getting sick of hearing about the whole gay Disney characters thing. So what if they're two guys living together? Ever heard of a bachelor pad?
I'm sure if I read this book, it'd have a reference going all the way back to Song of the South and claiming how racist it was.
Oh, and I think Phantom was being sarcastic, peoples.
Where I agree that the theories presented in the book mentioned are mostly bunk, I must say I believe it's rather unfair and absolutist to then react by assuming that anyone who thinks about children's movies as having undertones and messages is a fool who wastes his and everyone's time.
At this point it's probably apparent that I'm one of those fools =P
But, seriously, I do believe that The Lion King sends mixed messages to children and, I would argue, the wrong messages at that. I know this on a personal basis; I recieved them (And I'd like to mention it's unfair to dismiss this by saying "Well you recieved them; you must just be crazy; the rest of us are sane because we didn't recieve them." Because it does not disprove my theory that they -exist-, and also, being an ad-hominem thing to say, is very poor form in a debate).
There exists in the movie a set political climate reflecting one that we in the real world experienced years ago, as most of you are readily aware: that of the Western World, pre-WWII. As most everyone knows, the lions represent America/Britain (or just the Allies in general), the hyenas are the downtrodden masses of Germany, and Scar is Hitler incarnate. This is proven by the scene during Be Prepared which, as a TLK animator (I believe it was) admitted, was created to echo a scene an actual Nazi march film.
So we must at least admit that deeper things are being transmitted than merely what we literally see; references are being made to the real world, if only to aid the older viewers in getting an idea of what is going on (since it is easier to explain through analogy that the hyenas have chosen Scar as their "Strong Leader", and we already know what this means because it happened way back when). This being proven, it no longer seems ridiculous to suggest that undertones are being transmitted- to children? No, to everybody who watches. It's not subliminal advertizing; it's just undertones.
When one makes a connection to the real world in a fantasy setting, one creates the responsibility of remaining consistent with said connection. In other words, it could be argued that, after having established the hyenas as Nazi Germany and Scar as Hitler, the movie should deal with them appropriately in accordance with what happened in real life. Now, this is not necessarily true, but it helps guard against broken analogies.
Anyways, that is my stance on the issue. I do not believe at all that someone who looks for deeper or subtle significance in a fantasy movie is a fool or is wasting anybody's time. It is necessary to analyze that which we trust, lest we fail to uncover something REALLY serious. I can say this, at least: The Lion King succeeded in providing fuel for the fire of an entire generation of people brainwashed to think that hyenas are stupid, slobbering dogs who are pathetic last-links in the bottom of the food chain. I know because everyone I spoke to from highschool up about the animal expressed their disdain WHILE CITING The Lion King. It has been a long-standing superstition that hyenas are bad luck, or sneaky creatures, but never before this movie have so many people thought of them with actual disgust. They're an animal, people; and every bit as worthy of your respect as the lions which you love so dearly. Be fair.
Heil Scar!
That's a much better undertone than the racist claim. Things like that just happen. Animators are storytellers. Storytellers base what their stories are about of real life and the imagination. I can very well see that that was the reference the animators were going for.
About hyenas being degraded the way they are, I feel the same way. However, the movie was mainly to be from a lion's point of view, and lions and hyenas are mortal enemies in real life. That's why I can see why they made the hyenas in TLK turn out the way they did.
Yes, I agree; it seems the simplest way of telling the story. Still, I personally think children could've handled the idea that "the hyenas aren't necessarily the idiot bad guys," at the same time without missing the appeal of the movie. Who knows, maybe it might've been good for them. I don't know as I am not a child pyschologist. All I know is, I don't think things need to be oversimplified for children in the way of good guys vs. bad guys. My favorite cartoon when I was little (The Raccoons) did little to distinguish those two forces; the main antagonist was shown to have a very well-rounded personality and his own soft spots.
Anyways, I just think it's a shame the way people think of hyenas these days and that it's almost all due to The Lion King. I believe some will disagree with me here, some perhaps only because of their love for the movie and their refusal to admit that it had negative reprocusions, but I'm basing this on personal experience-- Every time I hear somebody calling them stupid, suggesting they are worthless animals and even call them names I probably can't post here, along the lines of "wuss" (how can an -animal- be wussy??), they cite TLK as their reference. I try to explain that they're wrong, but they believe the movie, being a Disney masterpiece, is the end-all-be-all. And I know someone will say, "Don't worry about them, they're just idiots who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy anyways," But the problem is, these "idiots" are -everywhere- and are, in fact, the majority of people I've met. They are not the minority.
In closing, I'd personally love to see the movie from the eyes of a hyena. Hey, they did it for Timon =)
Yeah, that's just what happens when a movie is made with a plot like that, going against a certain group of people. It's just one of those facts of life. I know those "idiots" are everywhere, I deal with them everyday, too. I just choose to ignore it the best I can. If it can't be helped, it can't be helped.
Although, one of my pet peeves is when they say that hyenas are dogs.X( They're related to MONGOOSES, dangit![/outburst]
Yeah, and that's a point that wasn't even presented in the movie! X-P
You just can't trust people with -anything-, not even a kid's movie 9_9
This kind of thing is just what makes the world so messed up now....
I agree, hyenas aren't stupid or anything in real life, and it's stupid when people say that. Alot of people claim that they're lazy, stupid, worthless, etc.. and because they steal food from lions. Actually, more often then not, lions steal food from them.
That probably didn't make any sense. Alas.
I agree that the hyenas are frowned upon a bit too much. Though I won't say that they'r emy favorite animals. I will say that no animal IRL is evil; including the misjudged hyena.
I see an irony in this though..
People hated, and I mean HATED the germans for the things that Hitler and the gov't were doing. But what they fail to realize is that the Germans didn't really have a say in it after a certain point. That and a lot of them didn't know of the Holocaust that was happening all around them, the allies didn't know it either till the end of the war when they began discovering more and more concentration camps.
Now if you were regarding the hyenas as the general German populace, then I see something quite ironic. People hated/hate Germany and its people for what they did, but a good share of folks there didn't know what was going on. They just knew their country was winning the war which was a great thing for them.
But see, the hyenas are looked down upon just as the German populace was/possibly still is by some. A bit intriguing I must say. Or perhaps its just me who sees that additional connection? :E
I'm a Germanophile meself :3
Berlin is a lovely city today...although one guy in a souvenier shop took it upon himself to lecture my parents and I on how we and our country are evil and stupid (quite literally) after we bought bier steins from his shop. Yell at the tourists, that'll bode well for business =O
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