Is TLK Guilty of Racism? Gender issues? Homosexuality?

[Lion King Stu]

can only say one thing...Burn the book of evil....BURN IT!!!!

Well that was ever so slightly amusing to read. Why do people have to write such crap about a great animated film.

[unregistered user]

Why do people have to write so much crap.

[King Simba]

I don't really believe in any of this that was mentioned in that book. To me, it's a load of rubbish. Things like that shouldn't be wrote about such an awesome animated film.

[Lion King Stu]

Originally posted by Ravoc
Why do people have to write so much crap.

because they are bored, have no g/f or b/f, don't get out much, have cravings for cheese etc.
does that help Uka sure that fuels the crap

[King Simba]

...or cos' they have no job and don't have anything else better to do with themselves.

About it I think.

[Sombolia]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
I think it's a good thing I didn't tell you guys the title- otherwise I think you'd be running to the nearest library and bookstore and rip 'em up to pieces.

Do you seriously think someone'd do that?

[IchLiebeNALA]

i'd go and read it to see for myself what a load of crap it is

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Sombolia
Do you seriously think someone'd do that?

*raises hand*.....What?!..I love fire...The sun is my hero...and I'm a Leo, the Sun sign....

[IchLiebeNALA]

Originally posted by lion_roog
and I'm a Leo, the Sun sign....

i thought it was a lion? *shrugs*

ah well. i'm gemini BTW

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Roquivo
Then you might as well acuse real life lion prides of the same thing, because that is what it is based on. Besides, haven't all America's presidents and vice presidents, and all England's Prime Ministors been male?

Margaret Thatcher!

And also, w-t-f? If anyone's gay in The Lion King, it's Scar.

[cleargreenwater]

I don't know how militant that book you saw was so I'm leery about saying I agree with what it says, but I agree that the theoretical issues mentioned are present in the movie, they are present in every childrens' production if someone's inclined to think about it.

About male dominance/patriarchy, there's a link on lk.org to an article exploring it in detail (tho a bit critical if I remember right,), and as for sexuality & gender identity in the movie, Brian Tiemann wrote a well-thought essay. Regarding racism & the hyenas, someone commented in a different topic on this very board that "TLK1's 'lion vs hyena' had somewhat racist undertones if you think about it..." so the idea isn't that far-fetched & unheard of.

Does any of it decrease my love of the movie? Absolutely not.
I can say irrevocably that I wouldn't have taken a single Women's Studies class (yes, there's a college cirriculum for this sort of thing,) if Disney hadn't given me strong female role-models at a critical age in the characters of Sarabi & Nala & Shenzi.

I think the benefits of TLK far, far outweigh any theoretical intellectual calls to heap hell-fire & damnation on it.

--CGW, life-less feminist.

[Iestyn]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Margaret Thatcher!

Beat me to it

[Atimon]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).

*lol* Oy, the old Timon-and-Pumbaa-are-gay-theory. Like most of you said, then for example I should be also homosexual as soon as I'm hangin' around with my friends. Hey, I'm not a man, but there exist very good friendships between men as between women. You do everything together, you have fun (not talking about THAT fun) together - and that alone makes you homosexual?! Didn't know that, thanks for the information!
I have nothing against homosexual people so even if they in fact were homosexual, I wouldn't mind being a Timon-Fan, but that idea is just...sick.
I mean, there are a few hints that could make people come up with that idea. First of all and I think that might be the reason Timon is always thrown in this drawer, is because of his voice actor, Nathan Lane. As far as I know he is indeed homosexual and since Timon like all the other TLK characters was supposed to be based on his voice actor's guestures, facial expressions etc. it is no wonder that some people might indeed say hey, then this meerkat might be homosexual as well. I think Nathan also even said somwhere that Timon and Pumbaa might be the first homosexual cartoon couple - or was it Pumbaa's voice actor? argh, doesn't matter - but hello? that was supposed to be a little joke, nothing to build a theory on.
Watching TLK I only see two best buddies who have found out that they share the same interests, enjoy living in the jungle and have fun together. And that they would help each other no matter what was also clearly seen when Timon tries to rescue Pumbaa when he's attacked by Nala.
What is indeed quite interesting is the fact that Disney somehow 'reacted' on that theory, at least I think so...I once got a scan from a children's book which another Timonfan sent to me where Timon is actually calling Pumbaa 'lover-boy' when he starts a little 'speech' to contradict Pumbaa and in one of the House of Mouse episodes, I think it must be the one that is even called "Timon and Pumbaa", he calls him a similar name (I only know it in german and there it was indeed a 'pet name'). And of course T&P episodes where Timon wants to marry himself because he was hit by an arrow by Amour and many other little scenes now and then could be speaking for T&P being homosexual - but I cannot find any of those signs in TLK, sorry. It is a movie for children and I think only adults could come up with such stupid theories because they have nothing else to do. And all in all they always portrayed Timon as well as Pumbaa being interested in females, you can find that in the episodes, comics and stories - so for me personally those other scenes from which you could suggest that they might be homosexual are just jokes by Disney, maybe even based on that stupid theory of them being gay.
I can only see just two best buddies who may have lived isolated and together for many years, but who are friends who are always there for each other and who are all in all just a funny duo and the best friends imaginable for little Simba

[Kago]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
I was in the library today, thumbing through a book about how racism, discrimination, and other nasty topics in Disney movies are teaching children bad concepts about life. Intrigued at how Disney animation could possibly be accused of such a thing, I immediately flipped to the index and searched for the "L" section. Yup, there it was- a link to two whole pages about how TLK is sending the wrong message to a juvenile audience.

It said that TLK is portraying a male-dominant society, as most of the characters are male and all of the leaders (Kings) who are in charge of the kingdom are of course male. The females all take minor roles (there is no song about being anxious about being queen, this book was so cheerful to notice), and even when Scar is in charge, they are obedient and do the master's bidding. The book ALSO points the fingers at the hyenas and says they are portrayed as Hispanics, and that since the hyenas are at the bottom of the food chain and neglected that TLK is being racial too. Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).

Do any of you believe this? I have a real hard time. These are the same people who discriminate against Sesame Street because almost all the puppets are male. *sigh*

People make assumptions and this quote is packed with them. The people assumed that just because Timon and Pumbaa (and Sully and Mike) hang out together and are best friends means that the creators are promoting homosexuality. They assume that just because it focuses more on men than women they think it's discrimination of the sexes when in reality there is only 1 male lion (the King) and all the others are females because any male offspring forms their own pride at a young adult age. They assume that just because the hyenas are, as they say, hispanics and are being neglected and at the bottom of the food chain that Disney's being racial, they would have said the same if they were potrayed as Asian, the hyenas played a minor role in the original and in TLK 1 1/2 because it focuses on lions. They assume that Disney considers women inferior to men because they listen to Scar when in reality he's the only male left after Simba runs away, who's supposed to be the king then? Remember "assume nothing" and "trust no one" (had to add that for some reason). Mainly "assume nothing" cause as Grissom put it in a CSI book "when we assume and are wrong we make an *** of you and me" and they assumed and were wrong, half of the stuff they were wrong about is on an Imax about lions and in a research book.

[Melody of Scar]

I did hear rumors that Simba's Pride was primarily created to disprove theories that Scar was gay...

I don't remember where I got that from though.

[Huma]

well, in the greatest project I've ever heard of raising all children in the world to be absolutly unbiased, perfectly neutral and entirely unsympathetic young man, this essay have a just point of view...

[Huma]

Originally posted by Melody of Scar
I did hear rumors that Simba's Pride was primarily created to disprove theories that Scar was gay...

I don't remember where I got that from though.

If WD ever have such intention, The Madness of King Scar should've done it before the SP. In my eyes, WD care much more about money than Scar's reputation

[Sombolia]

MoS, seriously? You mean.. if Scar were gay.. they never would have made SP..?

....

*slaps Scar* Why are you heterosexual, darnit! ;P

[Huma]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
I wouldn't use the phrase "Guilty of homosexuality" at all... there's nothing guilty about being homosexual. I don't believe that Disney have made Timon and Pumbaa gay, although it would be nice if they were hehe ...

Yeah, and why necessarily should feeling of guiltiness be a bad thing after all

[Nephilim]

One day I shall make a thread called "Is TLK Guilty of Your Mum?" and see how much f_w it causes.