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I'm not saying that Bush is a bad leader, but the country IS definetly going down the drain. If it's not Bush's fault, then it sort of goes against the theory of god helping nations.Quote:
Originally posted by Utora
:grrr: Okay, honestly, I'm getting spazzy. I strongly believe that Bush is doing an amazing job as our leader. God be with him!
And you know what Xinits, Ask God about that, not me. ;)
Previous technologies depend on earlier ones. How could one invent a personal computer without a transistor? Every great civilization has "boomed" more than the US. How about the block prinnting press? Paper from pulp? The wheelbarrow? Gunpowder? The compass? The rocket?Quote:
Originally posted by Utora
But no country has boomed like USA has.
There are som many things invented that there are nothing big to invent, and this is when the US comes in...
And if you're talking about economy, you should take a look at China.
Ya well, I'm extreamly tired, am sorry that you guys are willing to argue about this, and desire no more to discuss it. ;) I admit, that I was wrong about the booming America, but everything else, I'm sound on.
This is just making my folks laugh since they are watching this on their computer. Saddly:( we have eight computers, and my sister likes to watch. So, main reason I'm out.:evilgrin:
If God stopped everything bad, would we all be truely happy?
Sometimes the outcome is good. We just have to learn to live with it.
*Takes a deep breath*
In order to understand Romans 1, you must read it in full. To take certain passages from the bible and ignore the rest is taking the meaning out of context. Romans 1 is referring to Old-World Pagan temple practices that the author saw as sinful. One of these practices, not to be crude, was a pagan fertility ceremony where members would engage in heterosexual orgies. The passage says that God saw this is hideous before his eyes and gave these people over to homosexual practices as well. In the hebrew language, the word that stands for "natural" is not the same word we use as natural. During this time, the people did not have the concept of "natural" as being "what is supposed to be/what is right" but as meaning "the status quo". That means that it was unnatural for these people to engage in homosexual activities because they were originally heterosexual. This group of passages never refers to a committed homosexual relationship between two people. The fact remains that these people were having casual sexual activities with one another for a religious ceremony, which in most sects of the Christian religion is a sin, regardless of whether it is heterosexual or homosexual in nature.
Going along with that, in Corinthians 6, the words translated as "homosexual" are considered by most biblical scholars to be an incorrect translation. The hebrew words "malakoi" and "arsenokoitai" are not used to describe homosexual behavior in any other hebrew text of the time. If the author were to mean "homosexual", he would more likely have used the hebrew word "paiderasste", which was the common word for homosexual; the author of Corinthians wrote in plain and to the point grammar, he didn't use many metophor words that mean one thing but are used to represent something else. (Like, "malakoi" means "pliable" and was often used to mean "crappy morals" or someone who changed their beliefs whenever something new came up).
*Breathes*
I studied religion with a professor from OSU for 9 months in my off time (I knew her because she used to hold our school's philosophy club meetings), that was one of the subjects I asked her to cover. My point is, it could mean that homosexuality in all forms is a sin. Or it could mean something else. Translations from one langauge to another is not a definite science. There's errors to be made, and in time, fixed. I don't know for sure what the bible tries to say on the matter, there's good arguments for both. But to me, the fact that the arguments exist in the first place means that there's a problem. I don't see why christians argue about it, even get violent, when sin is not who we are. One major point of the bible is that Christians are no longer bound by sin and no longer bear its weight. If it is a sin, then I can say that I've tried pretty damn hard to find righteousness anyway. Regardless, I think God expects us to not know every answer, and I also think He expects us to screw up. That's why we have Christ. Finally, I think God casts his net of "salvation" larger than we as people expect.
But, on my more... personal side, I'll say that if someone says something is wrong, they need to investigate what their religious text says, both in the current language AND the original. Ignorance may be bliss, but it's also mankind's ultimate downfall.
Now getting on my very very personal side. I wouldn't consider this part of the debate because it gets personal and low. This is just my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt. I didn't wake up one morning and decide to subject myself to hate crimes, discrimination, disgust, and insults by my oh-so-wonderful Christian brethren. Nor do I appreciate having people at my school yell "Suck a dick" at me. Now, I'm wondering why you think it's a decision when A. It isn't logical that I would make such a choice, B. Every credible scientific evaluation of the matter, with the exception of one dealing with pheromones, points to genetics as being the deciding factor on the matter, and C. I don't remember making that choice. "C" is pretty important, because I must have been stoned or drunk or something when I made that choice, because I sure as hell don't remember it. I'll tell you what I do remember though. I remember being made fun off, getting pushed and hit, all that **** that other bisexual or homosexual people have to deal with. I also remember thinking about my .357 in december. And January, and February, and March, and May. I've thought about killing myself so many times because of this issue and to tell you the truth, there isn't anything stopping me from splattering my head against a wall but ironically religious reasons. Facing such a perdicament, why the hell would I choose to be bisexual?
Maybe you don't understand what being attracted to the same sex is like? It's a pretty simple concept, actually. You know how you're attracted to the opposite sex? Yup, that's exactly what it's like. I'm attracted to both, I think I'd know. There isn't anything different about it, it isn't some overbearing lust for sex, it's wanting companionship with a person; I would think about cuddling with another guy and watching a movie together, nothing sexual at all about that. I also think about walking by the kitchen counter and seeing my spouse, whoever that may be, doing bills or making toast or something. Perhaps it's the prototype to represent the concept of "gay" that many people have created in their mind that's the interior-design loving fruity guy that sleeps with everyone he meets? I don't think I fit that description.
*Exhales, bows to a silent and disgusted crowd, and steps off podium* :p
Were they laughing at this conversation or Coverdale's hair? :pQuote:
Originally posted by Utora
Ya well, I'm extreamly tired, am sorry that you guys are willing to argue about this, and desire no more to discuss it. ;) I admit, that I was wrong about the booming America, but everything else, I'm sound on.
This is just making my folks laugh since they are watching this on their computer. Saddly:( we have eight computers, and my sister likes to watch. So, main reason I'm out.:evilgrin:
:lol: Actually my sister laughed at that when I was trying to figure out who he was a long time ago. She was laughing at whats going on in this thread.
Ok, I haven't read much of this thread at all but I just wanna say well done to pntbll and thanks for sharing some personal stuff with us. I can't think of much to say in response except for the fact that as a christian we're supposed to think of everbody as being equal and accept them no matter what colour or race they are, that kinda thing, but then in some churches they don't allow or they dissaprove of homosexual relationships. It seems a bit hypocritical if you ask me.
I have a question though, can someone from another religion be as equal as a Christian?:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by Azerane
Ok, I haven't read much of this thread at all but I just wanna say well done to pntbll and thanks for sharing some personal stuff with us. I can't think of much to say in response except for the fact that as a christian we're supposed to think of everbody as being equal and accept them no matter what colour or race they are, that kinda thing, but then in some churches they don't allow or they dissaprove of homosexual relationships. It seems a bit hypocritical if you ask me.
That's a good question nafklt. See what I believe is that because I'm a baptised believer I have a place in heaven. However this does not mean to say that my beliefs are right, that's why they're called beliefs. I personally don't judge people by what religion they are, I accept the fact that there are other people out there that have different beliefs whether it's due to the way they've been brought up or just from things they've experienced. But whatever it is, somewhere along the line they've made a choice that that's the religion for them and I respect that choice, everybody is different so everybody can't be expected to believe the same thing.
EDIT: So yes, in my opinion, people with other religions are just as equal as christians and visa versa.
I agree with you on that Azerane, though I don't think the Catholic church itself actually believes that itself. Which I find really hypocritical.
I remember one time our religion teacher wanted us to study this chart that was in out text book. (My highschool's a Catholic school.) Basically it was a ring of circles. The center said God, the next ring said Catholics, the next was Christians, then Jews, then Muslims, Then other religions, then agnosics, and atheists, etc. And it was to show how close each type of person was to God, holiness, place in heaven, etc.
Personally that chart really pissed me off. (Though not nearly as much as it did of the friend I have in that class that happens to be Jewish, heheh.)
Ok, yeah sure, that's a really accurate chart, hehe. That's the problem I find with some churches sometimes, is that they say one thing like all people should be accepted as equals, but then they disapprove of certain individuals like homosexuals etc. It just defies the whole purpose of saying that everyone's equal in the first place. It just really annoys me sometimes how people with one belief will make judgements on certain types of people or judgements on a whole religion. When really, most (if not all) of the different religions have the same basis to become closer to God so that we can spend eternity with him in heaven (almost seems a bit selfish), it's just that the different religions go about doing this in different ways.
Yeah, they walk some very fine lines.
It just kinda portrays the idea: "We'll accept you as a respected religion, but at the heart of it all we're better than you, so we're closer to God." It just seems so petty.
And, atleast with the Catholic Church, their belief on homosexuality is extremely hypocritical. In that they say it's okay to be gay, and to have homosexual feelings. But if you dare act on those feelings, no matter the circumstances, it's a mortal sin against God. Poor people, they get attacked and scolded by everyone.
Yeah it's sad that although it's said that everybody's accepted it's obvious that in some cases they aren't. I guess it's just all you can do that at first it may only be a few people accepting people who are 'different' but then more people learn to accept them. I just don't know why people would refuse to accept them though.
It's very easy for me, I don't believe in anything, so I don't have to agree with what the church says.
Last time I went, I was 6, and that was for my confirmation.
Religion?Me? Shamanism. No voodoo! Voodoo is evil.
*chuckles* The same could be said about just about every other religion.Quote:
Originally posted by Marimbawizard
Voodoo is evil.
;)
Good to see someone else into Shamanism though...most people I know haven't even heard about it. But in the other thread I thought you said you were Wiccan? The last time I checked, Wicca and Shamanism were two different things (at least in most circles), or do your beliefs incorporate elements of both belief systems?
I'm Catholic(is that really oh so bad to some of you?), but I don't know whether it would be considered liberal or conservative.
Atheist.
(Is it just me, or have all the Atheists/Agnostics before me made one-word replies whereas most others have had much more to say about their response? Oh well. It's a moot point now; I've spoiled the pattern)
Do you take everything in the bible literally?Quote:
Originally posted by Katse
I'm Catholic(is that really oh so bad to some of you?), but I don't know whether it would be considered liberal or conservative.