True...and the thing is that everyone is ignorant...Quote:
Originally posted by pntbll248
People need to watch what they say. Ignorance leads to hate, sadness, and sometimes self-mutilation or suicide.
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True...and the thing is that everyone is ignorant...Quote:
Originally posted by pntbll248
People need to watch what they say. Ignorance leads to hate, sadness, and sometimes self-mutilation or suicide.
since i can find my 'Outsiders' book im going to have to remember this.........oh wait was it in 'To Kill a Mockingbird'?
well if my memory serves me right the quote went something like this....
"Sometimes a bible in the hand of one man, can be worse than a bottle of beer in another man's hand."
:confused: well it went something like that...
Kind of like the Samuel's golden hemorrhoids? To this day I remain unconvinced that that's what the original, untranslated text talks about...and if it does, apparently this god has a bizarre/cruel sense of humor.Quote:
Originally posted by pntbll248
My advice would be to look into translation of the bible and see that different words most likely do not represent what they're portrayed to be in most english translations.
:eek:
Wow, this topic really took off from the last time I saw it. My beliefs can be summed up in The Articles of Faith, written by Joseph Smith. Here they are:
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam?s transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon this the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul?We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
About what happens after death, I have been taught (and believe) that our spirits go to a spirit world to continue learning, until we are later reunited with our bodies in something called Ressurection. I can't find a better way to word what happens next, so I will copy what I found on lds.org
After we are resurrected we will be judged and rewarded for the things we have done in this life.
Jesus Christ taught His Apostles that in His Father?s house are ?many mansions? (John 14:2). Our loving Heavenly Father is anxious to reward all of His children according to their obedience to His commandments and their willingness to follow the Savior.
Those who do these things and are worthy to return to the presence of God and Christ become ?heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ? (Romans 8:17) of all that the Father has. They will return to live with Heavenly Father and with their families in His eternal glory.
Those who choose not to follow our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.
I realize this is very long, but I hope you read it to understand what it is I believe (at least a little bit). If you have questions about my religion, please ask, or go to www.lds.org I am not trying to make anyone believe what I do, nor do I mean to offend anyone (I'm sorry if I did).
I have a lot of respect for the LDS church. They put their beliefs into practice very well. I saw it when I lived in Utah.
I just have one little comment to make on homosexuality since it seems to be a rather important topic in this conversation. I'm not gay, but I have friends that are.
Jesus' teachings all basically center on one thing, love for others. And while it may seem wrong to some people, people in same sex relationships genuinely love each other, there's no denying that. And if love is a sin, than I might as well just throw my bible out my window, cause in such a case I'm just waisting my time and am cleary worshipping the wrong diety.
Well, because according to Christianity, it would make no sense for a person to go to hell just because he did not know who a man was and pray in his name. If Christ sacrificed himself for ALL of our sins, then wouldn't we ALL be forgiven, regardless if you believe that he was God? And if God planned everything, then there would be reason why somebody would sin (chain reactions) and if God controlled everything then He would purposely be sending people to hell.Quote:
Originally posted by Ravoc
Hmm.. how is the concept of Hell flawed, Xinithian? Expand on that for us perhaps?
You have to respect the opinions and beliefs of others... and realize that your belief is just a BELIEF and theory, and there is no absolute truth. If you want to not do something because it's going against your religious beliefs, then that's fine... however, you should not control other peoples' lives. If gay marriage is a sin, then I believe that it should be between God and them, not you and them. Sorry if I didn't make too much sense, I can't focus too much due to a recent event.Quote:
Originally posted by StalkingWolf
I do believe, without a doubt whatsoever in my mind, that the Bible is the WORD OF GOD!!!
I don't expect to be able to agree with you about certain things, but thinking about it and considering it, is another thing!!!
I am sorry Inuchance but if I was to vote on that, I would vote against it, because it goes completely against what God says in His Word, and I will not condone anything that God says is a sin!!! Once again, I am NOT forcing anything upon you, nor would I ever consider trying, but you have the choice to do what God wants, he gave everyone that opportunity, and he knew that several would reject and defy his Word (the Holy Bible) I would not want to see you in Hell, I would rather see you in Heaven with God, but that has to be a choice you make, no one else can make it for you!
I hope everything's okay. I'm here for ya any time you need someone, xin. :hugs:Quote:
Originally posted by Xinithian
Sorry if I didn't make too much sense, I can't focus too much due to a recent event.
Hope ya' feel better Xinithian! ;)
God doesn't control all things though, he gave us free will, Xinithian. Could he make us do something? Yes, but he wants to know if his children love him as he does them or if they ar elike Adam and Eve were in the garden.
As for the people that have never heard the gospel at all before, I honestly don't know the answer to that one Xinithian, perhaps someone else here does.
Christ did indeed die for all of us, but we must first accept him, it's a gift. The gift of salvation must be accepted in order to work. if someone bought you a big screen tv, and told you about you, but you said "Nah." then you're not going to be able to do anything with the tv since you don't have it.
And for him planning everything, personally I believe in changeable destiny. I believe that anything in the bible didn't have to be that way, and I believe that Revelation doesn't absolutely have to happen either. there are many that don?t believe this way, but I do.
And StalkingWolf, Xinithian is right. Everything on this thread is based on faith, or in the case of Atheism, the lack there of. Not a single one of us have absolute 100% proof of any of our beliefs. Remember, your duty to God isn?t to force others to believe, but to tell them the gospel and just help them if ever they need it, to be Christ-like. And try to lighten up on the !!! Points, otherwise I?ll have to start calling you Naline.
What she believes is truth...it's just that truth, like reality, varies from person to person. But I agree, there's no absolute truth.:cheese:Quote:
Originally posted by Xinithian
You have to respect the opinions and beliefs of others... and realize that your belief is just a BELIEF and theory, and there is no absolute truth.
What's up, buddy? What's this recent event?
I like Mormon's....never met a kinder people than the people of Salt Lake City...and I like how family oriented the Mormon Church is.:cheese:
I have wondered the same thing. In the Bible it says that man will be judged based on his conscience. So if you believed in no God, and truly believed that, then you cannot be condemned for it.Quote:
Well, because according to Christianity, it would make no sense for a person to go to hell just because he did not know who a man was and pray in his name. If Christ sacrificed himself for ALL of our sins, then wouldn't we ALL be forgiven, regardless if you believe that he was God? And if God planned everything, then there would be reason why somebody would sin (chain reactions) and if God controlled everything then He would purposely be sending people to hell.
God gave us all free will. In my belief, when someone murders someone else, that deviates from God's plan....so it has a ripple effect to get the plan back on track. But since things like that happen all the time, we live in the world we do today.
That reminds me of something someone said. I forgot who it was, but he said that revelations don't have to happen, that if people pray and work hard for this world to be a better place, we can change the destiny of mankind. And on that note, a letter was written sometime ago to the Pope, in the letter world events were listed. The letter was written some time ago but it listed recent world events. And events that have yet to happen. That's all that would be made known of the letter, the Pope could only cry after reading the letter. I'll look into it more, because I'm not too sure on my facts.Quote:
Originally posted by Ravoc
And for him planning everything, personally I believe in changeable destiny. I believe that anything in the bible didn't have to be that way, and I believe that Revelation doesn't absolutely have to happen either. there are many that don?t believe this way, but I do.
Roog, you double posted, you're going to Hell. :p
Just kidding, wanted to liven the mood a bit.
:lol: *:hugs: pntbll*
:haha:...I'm on the Highway to Hell!!!!...The Highway to Hell!!!!....Come on everybody, Alice Cooper is great!.....:DQuote:
Originally posted by pntbll248
Roog, you double posted, you're going to Hell. :p
Just kidding, wanted to liven the mood a bit.
Highway to Hell isn't by Alice Cooper.:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
:haha:...I'm on the Highway to Hell!!!!...The Highway to Hell!!!!....Come on everybody, Alice Cooper is great!.....:D
In my mind it is....along with every song ever made.......:DQuote:
Originally posted by Ngatuny
Highway to Hell isn't by Alice Cooper.:confused:
*smacks Roog with the stick for saying it was ALice Cooper, and smacks Ngatuny witht he stick just for the heck of it*
:lol::p It's about time we had some comic relief in here.;)
:haha:....Have you heard "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" and "Yesterday"?....Those are my two favorite Alice Cooper songs....didn't really care for his song "Cop Killer", though......:DQuote:
Originally posted by Ravoc
*smacks Roog with the stick for saying it was ALice Cooper, and smacks Ngatuny witht he stick just for the heck of it*
Well, to those who keep on fussing at me for what I said, I was not forcing my religion upon anyone, and I do respect the beliefs of other people thank you! I may as well just get off this thread, because like everyone else I was just sharing my beliefs, but obviously mine seems to be making people upset even though I said several times that I was not saying this to offend anyone or make anyone believe in my religion(I am not forcing anything upon anyone, so it doesn't seem very fair for you to be accusing me of that!), not that I even can. I was not intentionally trying to offend anyone, and those that I did forgive me! I DO NOT however, agree with you that there is no absolute truth, because if there wasn't how would people know what to base their life upon, they have to base it upon something they believe to be truth! I do also believe that the Bible is God's unfallible WORD, and that is where you can find an answer to anything you need in life! That is what I believe and the issue of the 'for the wages of sin is death' I can't make it any clearer than that, because that is what God said, but he also said that he would make a way for escape from that punishment if people chose it...(the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ) Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone, was not my intention at all. I am not condemning anyone to hell, because I am not in power to do that, only God is! I am just a messenger for him, all christians are considered messengers of God, but you must KNOW him and HIS WORD(the Bible)before you can consider yourself worthy to speak boldly in His name. God said in Matt. 16:15, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." I am doing what God said in the Bible, not forcing ANYTHING upon ANYONE!!!!! Yes, I do base my life on the Bible because like I said, I believe it is God's unfallible Word, and I need nothing else to guide me if I have God's exact words already! That is the TRUTH I believe in, and nothing can change that, not even destiny.....
It's not that you're forcing your beliefs upon everybody else, it's that in this debate there is no absolute truth and you have to be willing to hear and accept all ideas. Whether or not you believe it is absolute truth is up to you, but for this debate there is no absolute truth. You can't just say that only the Bible is "God's word", because that's all in your opinion and beliefs and is not proven (it also applies to other religions... keep in mind that they're all theories and there is no proven truth).Quote:
Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Well, to those who keep on fussing at me for what I said, I was not forcing my religion upon anyone, and I do respect the beliefs of other people thank you! I may as well just get off this thread, because like everyone else I was just sharing my beliefs, but obviously mine seems to be making people upset even though I said several times that I was not saying this to offend anyone or make anyone believe in my religion(I am not forcing anything upon anyone, so it doesn't seem very fair for you to be accusing me of that!), not that I even can.
You should stay in this debate, but just be more open-minded to different ideas and theories.
If I offended anyone...I would like to say that I don't give a crap. I love you all....now give me a kiss...:kiss: :D
"Truth" is funny....it's funny because it can change from person to person.
I am open-minded to hearing whatever people say, but let me ask you this, if the Bible is not God's Word, what is then? Since it is so-called not proven, nothing else has been proven to be God's Word, the Bible has always been considered as God's words, every since it was first written! Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God! So, if you think about it, it is the only sensable thing to believe that it is God's words, and has been every since God had those forty men write it....it was "God-breathed" Again, I say I am open-minded to anything people say, I am simply stating my replies or belief, not theories, on the issues at present...
Yes, that is something I enjoy about my church. Even if I don't get along with my siblings all the time, it's a huge comfort to know that I will always be with them, here and forever in the after life. This was very helpful to me when my grandmother died. It confused me on why I wasn't as sad as I thought I should have been, when I realized I would be seeing her again someday, I'll just have to wait till then.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
I like Mormon's....never met a kinder people than the people of Salt Lake City...and I like how family oriented the Mormon Church is.:cheese:
Yes, I thought the same thing when people died around me. I was just like, it's apart of life and I will see them again.Quote:
Originally posted by Muruwa
This was very helpful to me when my grandmother died. It confused me on why I wasn't as sad as I thought I should have been, when I realized I would be seeing her again someday, I'll just have to wait till then.
Keep standing firm to your beliefs, StalkingWolf....it's a very admirable quality.:cheese:
Isn't that a wonderful thing to know, that families can be together forever? Being born and raised as a Mormon, I sometimes forget that not all people believe that. A death of a loved one is tragic, for the family members and people who lived close to that person, but there are many that believe that they will never see them again. It is very comforting to me, as it is to you, Muruwa, that the people that mean the most to us will be with us for eternity.Quote:
Originally posted by Muruwa
Even if I don't get along with my siblings all the time, it's a huge comfort to know that I will always be with them, here and forever in the after life.
Being a Mormon is tough sometimes because the standards are held high for its members. The Word of Wisdom outlines some of them, such as we do not drink alcohol or coffee, we do not use tobacco or drugs, and we try to avoid profane, vulgar or offensive media. For me as an individual, these standards are not as hard to tolerate as the criticism I get occasionally even from my friends for being a Latter-Day Saint, especially for not drinking caffinated drinks, not watching R-rated movies or not dating until age 16 (but luckily I just turned 16, so that's great!) And every morning starting at 5:55 A.M. I go to church to attend Seminary, or scripture study, which they can't believe I do. It's not that hard though, and I get so much out of it, it really starts me off the right way each day.
If anyone has a question about anything, please give me a PM. Ok, I'm done!
I was raised as a Catholic, but I was never very devout, often questioning what I'd been taught, as I'm naturally a very inquisitive person, and the answer "because [x] says so" never satisfied me. When I realized that had I been born in some other region, I would probably have been raised a different religion, I began to wonder what made the religion I was learning 'Right,' and not having any proof,I ended up with the conclusion that it would be pretty risky to devote myself to One religion. Especially while studying mythology, you realize that all sorts of religions vary greatly, but also carry various similarities to other religions, both archaic and modern-day. Whether that's due to some sort of universal force (a God), or just the way humans developed I don't know. Rather than worry about which religion to stick to, I just live a relatively good life, in which I'd help others when able, avoid harming others, and generally staying out of the way of trouble, to improve humanity the best that I can.
And blah, hate to double post, but a couple extra things I wanted to reply to, but didn't think to at the time.
Is that one of the unwritten commandments, like "Thou shalt not pay too much for a muffler"? :cheese:Quote:
Originally posted by pntbll248
Roog, you double posted, you're going to Hell. :p
Just kidding, wanted to liven the mood a bit.
For alcohol, tobacco, and drugs, there's absolutely nothing you're missing, unless doing things like puking all over yourself after a night of heavy-drinking is your thing (that mental image of someone I know covered in his own vomit is still ingrained in my mind :eww:). As for caffeine, you're just setting yourself up for trouble there, too. I'm a caffeine-addict, and as I'm writing this it's 5am and I'm still not feeling tired... The no-dating-until-your-16 standard I think is a good one to have... I have yet to actually see anything come meaningful out of a relationship started under that age...Quote:
Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Being a Mormon is tough sometimes because the standards are held high for its members. The Word of Wisdom outlines some of them, such as we do not drink alcohol or coffee, we do not use tobacco or drugs, and we try to avoid profane, vulgar or offensive media. For me as an individual, these standards are not as hard to tolerate as the criticism I get occasionally even from my friends for being a Latter-Day Saint, especially for not drinking caffinated drinks, not watching R-rated movies or not dating until age 16 (but luckily I just turned 16, so that's great!) And every morning starting at 5:55 A.M. I go to church to attend Seminary, or scripture study, which they can't believe I do. It's not that hard though, and I get so much out of it, it really starts me off the right way each day.
If anyone has a question about anything, please give me a PM. Ok, I'm done!
Though, as for R-rated movies, that's something I could never live without, and I could never wake up at 6am (see previous paragraph, re: caffeine), especially if it meant having to go to church.
I think you greatly underestimate the creative capacity of the human mind with that statement.Quote:
Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God!
:hmm:
StalkingWolf, I too admire you for standing up strong for what you believe in. But as I said before, everything on this thread is based completely on faith. To you and I and others the Bible may be God's word, to others it might be the Qu'ran, and some it could be the words of Buddha or some that only follow the old testament of the bible. You may feel as though the other religions are not the real deal, but that doesn't mean that other people feel the same way. Hate to quote Scar but it fits, "Truth is in the eye of the beholder."
Now, everyone else please show StalkingWolf respect also and quit jumping on her all at once :idiot:
One last note, we don't know how many people put the bible together. For instance, for the longest time we thought the first five books of the bible were by Moses. But now there may be evidence to challenge that. Some say four different people wrote the first five books. All of the books that followed in the Old Testament was written in Alexandria or Israel by forty or so Jewish scribes. Some of the books and parts of the books even were left out because the Jews didn't consider them acceptable, mainly because they were written in Alexandria. The New Testament is even worse. The early church possibly took some of what should of been in there out at the council of Nicea due tot he fact that the church leaders didn't consider it canon. If you want to know how much we lost, a monastery in Sinai, Eygpt claims to have found a whole other gospel! It's impossible to say how many wrote the bible really, or at least really hard to know, there are some clues here and there.
Anyway, gotta go ^^ Make peace, not war.
Eh, I dunno about that. I mean there are a lot more well written, descriptive and interesting books out there. Like The Lord Of the Rings. I mean come on, there are even several original languages in there.Quote:
Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God!
No one's mind is finite, anyway.
I know a little on this,Quote:
Originally posted by Ravoc
As for the people that have never heard the gospel at all before, I honestly don't know the answer to that one Xinithian, perhaps someone else here does.
picture your door, now think of someone knocking on it, you can hear the knocking, but you can't see who stands on the other side... will you open it?... or not?...
now, in Rev 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them and they with me."
in other words, everyone, in one form or another will know...
now, as for babies, whom hasn't matured enough to understand, well in psalms it has where david's baby dies, and david says: 'he won't come back to me but I will come to him.' in other words, they go to heaven.
Actually Neph, it is, the human brain only uses 10% of its capabilities, so it is finite. Then again if you go with a previous post on here of mine saying that nothing in science is proven completely, which it isn't, this could change as well.
The mind is finite in that sense....but in the sense of the ability of the mind, it is not finite.Quote:
Originally posted by Ravoc
Actually Neph, it is, the human brain only uses 10% of its capabilities, so it is finite. Then again if you go with a previous post on here of mine saying that nothing in science is proven completely, which it isn't, this could change as well.
:haha:...STL, I am already drunk off insanity.....but I'll take another hit, thanks.....:D
True....but think of this....everything you picture and create in your mind is actually pieces and parts of something you have already seen already. And if you have yet to see something, and you see it, then you relate it to things you know.Quote:
I think you greatly underestimate the creative capacity of the human mind with that statement.
Roog is right, even mythology has its basis in something that people claimed to have seen, use the unicorn for example.
Now I believe that the bible is God's word, but I can't think that we're meant to take everything in it literally.
But that's just it, I can say I believe it's the world of God, but I can't prove it. I mean, who's to say it just wasn't something somebody started to make up, and before you know it, it snowballed into what it is today.
But I don't think it matters, as the bible was never meant to be a complex set of rules on what's moral or not. In my mind it's a basic guide on how to be a good person and love others, it doesn't need to be so complicated, and in that case, it doesn't matter who wrote it. It's message is still the same as it always was.
Well-said.Quote:
Originally posted by Kintaru
Now I believe that the bible is God's word, but I can't think that we're meant to take everything in it literally.
But that's just it, I can say I believe it's the world of God, but I can't prove it. I mean, who's to say it just wasn't something somebody started to make up, and before you know it, it snowballed into what it is today.
But I don't think it matters, as the bible was never meant to be a complex set of rules on what's moral or not. In my mind it's a basic guide on how to be a good person and love others, it doesn't need to be so complicated, and in that case, it doesn't matter who wrote it. It's message is still the same as it always was.
This thread is rather..uuhhh.. what the word... weird kinda cause not a couplle days ago my dad decided he was gonna Try to convert me i guess, and im a bit frightened at some of his attempts oO
Which explains why the Bible contains stories bearing striking resemblence to various mythological themes and legends that were long in place before Christinity was even a blip on the radar.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
True....but think of this....everything you picture and create in your mind is actually pieces and parts of something you have already seen already. And if you have yet to see something, and you see it, then you relate it to things you know.
See something that already exists. Interpret something that already exists. Assimilate and alter that which already exists to fit into own religion.
Of course, the loophole is by saying that the Christian god created the natural disasters and whatnot that caused the stories to be written, and that's a never-ending debate, the final solution of which will only be revealed after we die...or something.
Hehe, now that's quite ironic. :)Quote:
Originally posted by TakaTiger
This thread is rather..uuhhh.. what the word... weird kinda cause not a couplle days ago my dad decided he was gonna Try to convert me i guess, and im a bit frightened at some of his attempts oO
My family used to try to convert me, until I went to the priest of their parish and asked him to tell them to leave me alone.