So now you tell us it should be allowed
But before you should say it should be punishable, and not banned for it
So we should punish those anyways that do it not directly at someone, and ban those who do it at someone?
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So now you tell us it should be allowed
But before you should say it should be punishable, and not banned for it
So we should punish those anyways that do it not directly at someone, and ban those who do it at someone?
You have to look at it like this. This is a soceity open to young children because it is based on a movie that was originally intended for young children. Young children should not be exposed to vulgar language (at all). Thus, that rule is integral to this soceity.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
Yes, but who decides those rules? How do we judge what rules are integral to society? And will those views change as society moves along?
Edit: And how can we figure out whether language is directed at us or not? Anybody can lie.
BReaking rules in some turns is a good thing, in others it's bad. Rules are made to be followed and to keep order, and to pass restrictions.
Some rules are good (No killing), some are bad (racial and sexual segregation).
We learn with the punches my friend. However I do not see how swearing could improve the forum at all. That's a pathetic argument yes, as you could just as easily say that you do not see how it could bring it down.
When it comes down to it though, society in a whole has decided (unless you live under a dictator that is). So perhaps a vote would resolve this issue for us?
I have an Idea Lion Roog, Not to be mean but here try this..
Stop thinking about what you will have to do after these rules are made, or how you will have to act like once the rules are made (If they are)
Try thinking about the other users here in lea and not yourself all the time?
I'm with Nuka; I think the only way to resolve this, to be fair to the most members possible, a vote is in order.
I don't understand what you want from me...the wording is kinda confusing me.Quote:
Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
So now you tell us it should be allowed
But before you should say it should be punishable, and not banned for it
So we should punish those anyways that do it not directly at someone, and ban those who do it at someone?
Then, at what age should they be exposed to vulgar language? Or would that be up to discussion? And to what severity should they first be exposed to? I guess my point is that the use of vulgar language when it comes to a situation like this comes down to points of view...Quote:
You have to look at it like this. This is a soceity open to young children because it is based on a movie that was originally intended for young children. Young children should not be exposed to vulgar language (at all). Thus, that rule is integral to this soceity.
You don't understand Roog, it's NOT about age! I could be 100 and I wouldn't want it in this forum!!
*does a Spongebob pose*
"Perspective" (instead of 'Imagination') x)
Then, at what age should they be exposed to vulgar language? Or would that be up to discussion? And to what severity should they first be exposed to? I guess my point is that the use of vulgar language when it comes to a situation like this comes down to points of view... [/B][/QUOTE]
In a Utopia, nobody would ever be exposed to any sort of vulgarity.
Since we can't do that, it'd be nice at least if the kids weren't exposed to it here of all places. You like this forum? Is a little kid going to like this forum if there's swearing going on? And what if a kid's parents see something, by chance? Isn't it going to cause trouble.
Well, here's another thing to think about. Could you consider something like "Well, then she called me a b****" on the same level as "you're a b****"...Both are still swearing.Quote:
Originally posted by Nuka
We learn with the punches my friend. However I do not see how swearing could improve the forum at all. That's a pathetic argument yes, as you could just as easily say that you do not see how it could bring it down.
And a vote sounds good, but there should be more than two choices...it's not black and white
Man, if I didn't care about Lea, then I wouldn't care enough to discuss this with y'all here.Quote:
Try thinking about the other users here in lea and not yourself all the time?
THen why Roog, Do you not get the point of "No swearing at all" ? and WHY Would you want people to swear in a "TLK zone" I mean dang, The movie never sweared so why should the forums ABOUT the movie allow swaering? :|
Oh, I know and respect that, but I was addressing the issue on swearing and age...so I made my arguement to take age into consideration...Quote:
Originally posted by 2 Die FR
You don't understand Roog, it's NOT about age! I could be 100 and I wouldn't want it in this forum!!
It's black and white to a little kid. To them it doesn't matter how you say it. It just has to be there and that kid will absorb it. Even if it's just periodic. And if you really look at things, Roog, you are thinking only of yourself. You have to think of the only reason you've given us that swearing should remain: it was for you, so that you can act like yourself.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
Well, here's another thing to think about. Could you consider something like "Well, then she called me a b****" on the same level as "you're a b****"...Both are still swearing.
And a vote sounds good, but there should be more than two choices...it's not black and white
Mufasa doesn't mind if you use a bit of cussing as long as it doesn't purposely offend anyone and more importantly it should be used in good moral judgement.
I myself try and not use it too often only as a bit of outlandish humor perhaps. But I have the decency to at least **** it.
"Each speech could come naturally from the speaker and from no one else. Each is very moving. Each has great rhythmic flow and force. Yet each is in the same basic pattern." - William Shakespeare
Because I don't live in the Lion King...I live in a world a lot uglier. So all I want is to not be made into some bad guy by some rule when a little of the real me shows up in an online forum. It's not like I do it all the time...but sometimes it's the best way for me to express myself.Quote:
Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
THen why Roog, Do you not get the point of "No swearing at all" ? and WHY Would you want people to swear in a "TLK zone" I mean dang, The movie never sweared so why should the forums ABOUT the movie allow swaering? :|
Then maybe, for the benefit of the forum, we need to come up with new ways to express yourself.
This isn't your world alone and it probably never will be.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
Because I don't live in the Lion King...I live in a world a lot uglier. So all I want is to not be made into some bad guy by some rule when a little of the real me shows up in an online forum. It's not like I do it all the time...but sometimes it's the best way for me to express myself.
Quote:
Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Then maybe, for the benefit of the forum, we need to come up with new ways to express yourself.
Sometimes you have to be a little selfish...but I think when I take a stand against something I don't believe in, I am doing it for more than just me. I am doing it for anyone who shares my view.Quote:
Originally posted by Prince Simba
And if you really look at things, Roog, you are thinking only of yourself. You have to think of the only reason you've given us that swearing should remain: it was for you, so that you can act like yourself.
Okay I just realized something after slapping myself (Literally)
1) Why am I arguing and trying to get something out of Roog
2) Roog is entitled to his Opinion and we shouldn't force him to change it
3) If Roog wants to express himself, Let him. "He got what was coming to him" Is what you can say if something happens
So I think I'm done with this post for a while.
"Every person has a right to be different from everyone else in the world, That is what we call - Individuality" ~ Someone I don't know :)
Maybe so, but not until I see that I am damaging the forum in any way.Quote:
Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Then maybe, for the benefit of the forum, we need to come up with new ways to express yourself.
And sometimes you have to be a little selfless. Sometimes you have to give a little and accept that somebody else could possibly be right.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
Sometimes you have to be a little selfish...but I think when I take a stand against something I don't believe in, I am doing it for more than just me. I am doing it for anyone who shares my view.
And you can't say you're not being selfish by standing up for your own cause on behalf of other people.
Edit:
Will it seriously take some huge flame-war or somebody else leaving to get you to change your mind?Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
Maybe so, but not until I see that I am damaging the forum in any way.
Very cool. I am just supporting one point of view. You will learn that I am very stubborn (both a good thing and a bad one), but if you convince me otherwise...then I am willing to admit it. But it takes a lot to convince me.Quote:
Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Okay I just realized something after slapping myself (Literally)
1) Why am I arguing and trying to get something out of Roog
2) Roog is entitled to his Opinion and we shouldn't force him to change it
3) If Roog wants to express himself, Let him. "He got what was coming to him" Is what you can say if something happens
So I think I'm done with this post for a while.
"Every person has a right to be different from everyone else in the world, That is what we call - Individuality" ~ Someone I don't know :)
But first you must convince me that you're right in order for me to agree with you. Until then, I still hold my same views.Quote:
Originally posted by Prince Simba
And sometimes you have to be a little selfless. Sometimes you have to give a little and accept that somebody else could possibly be right.
And you can't say you're not being selfish by standing up for your own cause on behalf of other people.
You're right...I can't say that I'm not selfish in a lot of cases...but then again, no one can say that...
Idle threats will not sway me. Am I really being that offensive with my opinions?Quote:
Originally posted by Prince Simba
Will it seriously take some huge flame-war or somebody else leaving to get you to change your mind?
EDIT: sorry for the triple posts...Sometimes I am oblivious to some things...:cheese:
No, I was just asking.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
Idle threats will not sway me. Am I really being that offensive with my opinions?
EDIT: sorry for the triple posts...Sometimes I am oblivious to some things...:cheese:
You're right.Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
You're right...I can't say that I'm not selfish in a lot of cases...but then again, no one can say that...
But, I hope that me leaving will help you to change your mind. I was hoping that it wouldn't come to this. :alone:
Just kidding mate, I'll be back after some sleep. it's 2am here :gasp:
:haha:...You're right...since I live only two hours from you south in Tucson...it's also 2am here...:DQuote:
Originally posted by Prince Simba
Just kidding mate, I'll be back after some sleep. it's 2am here :gasp:
Good, because I am hoping we can have a discussion that may become pretty indepth without anyone not being able to cope with it and leaving. I tend to find that that situation either stems from someone not being able to handle an arguement, or someone going on the offensive in a personal matter. If people can keep it from becoming personal, then there shouldn't be anyone leaving or grudges being held...everyone just has to be adult about it.Quote:
No, I was just asking.
and 1 am here. :zzz: I quit...for now.
4 am here, Thats why I stoped arguing :P i'd say something stupid :idiot:
Oh no! Between now and sunrise he could come and kill me! :eek:Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
:haha:...You're right...since I live only two hours from you south in Tucson...it's also 2am here...:D
Either that or torture/tickle me into seeing his point of view. :gasp:
It's clobber time! :die:
:lol:
Y'know, it's really, really hard to argue so seriously with a guy as typically non-serious as roog...
*back to sleep*:zzz:
:haha:...My personality as many demensions...I just choose to be light hearted about most things...But I bet you've been expecting me to suddenly come off with a one liner to a serious comment...:pQuote:
Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Y'know, it's really, really hard to argue so seriously with a guy as typically non-serious as roog...
*back to sleep*:zzz:
PS...sleep with one eye open...:evilgrin:
KTL...Go to sleep, Man!....And I feel you about that saying something stupid thing when you're tired...:D
:gasp:
Quote:
Originally posted by lion_roog
:haha:...My personality as many demensions...I just choose to be light hearted about most things...But I bet you've been expecting me to suddenly come off with a one liner to a serious comment...:p
PS...sleep with one eye open...:evilgrin:
HARASSMENT HARASSMENT BAN HIM BAN HIM OMFG BAN HIM
just kidding don't or I'll come to you :die::roars:
:haha:...what if that was my plan all along?...;)...And we'll continue this discussion tomorrow...at a time convenient to me...:diva:Quote:
Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
just kidding don't or I'll come to you :die::roars:
I can't take a look at this thread too carefully now sinse I'm at the airport in Germany, but I want to correct couple of things I realized while I was reading the first page. First of all I don't think I have ever said I gonna be moving or that I wouldn't come back, I just took a break because I spent a Christmas with Sharifu ( as I think most of you know already ) so I didn't want to come online on that little time we can spend together ( It should be understandable ). and what comes to my inactivity, I can't help it. I can understand if some people think I shoudn't be a moderator, but I have a lot stuff I have to take care of in my personal life i.e work and school. I actually post here more often then I see my friends... ( I will get back to you after I get home if I'm not to tired after 19hours flights and layovers )
Oh my God ... I've been up dying from pain on my teeth ... And I can tell you, by reading the last 4 pages (new posts), the pain didn't get any better.
What's this really about now?
Are the mods still doing a good job? Or can we swear or not swear on this board?
I think you might saw me write "*beep*" once or twice, when I'm mad or something.
It's the f*** in a perfectly normal phrase, which I don't like, since the F word doesn't even need to be in most phrases, but people still use it like that, and God knows why ...
I was wonderin' when someone was going to say that.Quote:
Originally posted by nathalie
What's this really about now?
Are the mods still doing a good job? Or can we swear or not swear on this board?
:lol:
Sorry about the pain, Nath... :( :hugs:
Well, if you guys were attempting to destroy the mod staff, you did a heck of a job. As you know, Nathalie is taking a break, luckily for her own needs. Another active mod, whom I will allow to name themselves when they are ready, has handed in their resignation becaus eof stress from the forum. I can't speak for all the mods, but seeing these past few posts in this forum is just making me want to scream and put my fist through a wall. You are going to hear some stuff you would never expect me to say.
Quite frankly, I am saddened to see how this forum reacted to this thread in the first place. I we got is "I hate this", and "the mods are bad because of that", but is anybody willing to offer suggestions to help? Nope. And what about how we get taken advantage of? You expect us to fix every little problem that happens, half the time with stuff outside of Lea, but when the problem involves you in even a small margain, you give us a scream-fest. Please, people, GROW UP! We are NOT your babysitters. Take responcibility for your own problems if that if you can.
You know, it seems that instead of helping us to better ourselved for the sake of the forum, you seem to want to take us down as a whole. Tell me, where would this forum be without a mod staff? I can easily show you.
Gametalk
This is a forum I used to be a part of awhile back. There is no regestering system, and there are about 1000 regs for each member of the mod staff. The webmaster wastes all his time building toys for himself. Comparing Lea to that place is like comparing a desert island to New York City or London. I dare ANY of you to spend a day if one of those forums, and then come tell me that Lea has a poor mad staff. Do we make mistakes? Yes, but we are onlu human. Instead of bashing us for everything that goes wrong, and ignoring all the positive, why not work with us instead of against us.
And mods, we NEED to get on the same page here. I am seeing severel different versions of the rules, and am very confused about it. How the time, I don't even know what is right and wrong anymore. We need to get the ruiles straight beofre we start getting on the forum for breaking them. Also, some organization of our leaders is needed. We need figure out stays and who goes, and such. I don't recall who said, but we reaaly aren't making enough comunications among ourselves here.
Yes, I know a lot of that didn't makle sence, but it came from the heart from someone beyond frustration begging for his sanity.
The discussion on profanity was definitely stimulating. I could have done without the chatting at the end, but it is good that you guys care, and it makes me want to care. =) So, here's my take on some of the recent developments in this thread.
Thanks for the constructive criticism, exactly what I (and I expect the other moderators) were looking for. As for the points you mentioned:Quote:
Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
1) Moderators should enforce the rules here not Swear like Sonique had done. We were just talking about "No Cussing" And Sonique, A Super Moderator Breaks one of the rules The Moderators are trying to enforce. I mean come on are we even going to try to put this rule into motion? If a mod can swear and a member can't, Don't you think thats.. Stupid? (NO offense to anyone on this)
2) I actually think some stuff is good, I liked how the "Lea Awards being opened or closed" Was handled, I do applaud you for that, But the way some topics are closed.. Example LIke that are kind of, Hmm Rude?
Though That member was being stupid on the net and stuff, Neph did NOT have to off and say "children" as a whole or something. It sounded seriously rude when he did so. If you are going to take action upon a post or thread, Do it, Dont humiliate the user. :|
3) Moderators sometimes may get aggrivated with a certain member and go off on them once they do to many things wrong. Like.. ButtonCollector, I think a few mods were seriously crazy about this member and daerly hated her/him (can't remember gender) And raved until he/she was banned. Though he/she was annoying. Moderators you can keep your cool with members and just plainly state a problem and end it with saying "Stop doing this please, Thread Closed" instead of "STOP DOING THIS ALL THE TIME THREAD CLOSED As I said before, Don't put down a member, Or humiliate them in front of the boards though they did something stupid. To prove a point is good, but going on upon that point is just.. Annoying and childish sometimes, Though it CAN prove and end an argument. Don't take it to a certain extent.
4) This may not be relevant but members are just as important as a Moderator is and should also follow the rules, This is a friendly environment forums, But sometimes it just gets way out of hand. Like when someone bumps up a thread tons of members get all whacko and go crazy because its a thread they've seen a thousand times, Instead of making yourself look like a complete mad person and mean people. Just don't post there at all and wait for the topic to go back down into the piles of other useless topics, Because if you come to think of it, You can't post anything new thats already old and behind us in the forums, If you do its merged in with that thread and brought up anyways, Thats like bumping a thread up, and it seems NO ONE argues about it, Only unless some new member or someone bumps up a thread, and SOMETIMES they do post ontopic and STILL get yelled at "STOP BUMPING OLD POSTS" if you think about it, if a new member comes, EVERY post in LEA is NEW. So they have a RIGHT to post and bump up those threads. though it may be old to you, its new to them. Don't yell at them just because they made a mistake or something, and bumping isn't even against the rules.[/B]
1) I believe we do need to come to a consensus and clarify our rule on "vulgar language" in the forum. Personally I'm not offended by reading any of it, but as I see it, there can be no gray area as far as what is allowed and what isn't. Allowing certain words on a situational basis sounds fair, but it would be impossible for us to come up with concrete rules as to when profanity is appropriate, and even then, there would be times when we aren't really sure whether a certain instance is allowable or not. If we have to start making judgement calls, frankly we'll be wasting our time. I would support a ban on profanity if only to eliminate the confusion that this presents. Really, anything that can be said with profanity can just as well be said without, and more constructively at that.
2) That whole thread was a bit ridiculous from the start, don't you think? I don't blame Neph for being Neph. Yes, the wording was regrettable, but she was/is a new mod. I'm glad you pointed that specific instance out, but I assure you most threads are closed quite a bit less dramatically. Actually, in this instance, nothing needed to be said at all. The creator of the thread was obviously on their way out and wanted to make some sort of perverse, biting exit. ;)
3) That particular member was more than "annoying." He/she received numerous warnings over the course of months, and, had created multiple accounts. Not just 2 or 3, but 16, forcing us to ban the IP. (I didn't have much to do with it, as I wasn't very active at the time.) You probably weren't aware of all that, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. What you probably perceived as the moderators being over the top was just us doing our jobs. Overall, save for certain instances where perhaps we let our emotions get in the way, we tend to do our work simply and quietly (but decisively). Also, if it is necessary to give a warning to a member, the warnings must escalate. They may start out politely (as they should) but they need to become more adamant as time passes and they still haven't heeded the warning. It's true that the offending member might get a satisfaction from us getting on their case all the time, but it's all we can do to ask them to follow the rules. It's not just for our sake, it's with the hope that they can become good, functioning members of the forum. If we didn't care, we'd simply ban people left and right, but we do care, and we do seek to maintain the integrity and dignity of the forum.
4) You've got a good point. There ought to be specific guidelines. Maybe a new rule is in order. Reviving old threads in certain forums and in circumstances should be allowed; however, general forum etiquette says that you should create a new thread about a very general topic (that would exclude threads about a particular movie, for example) if similar, older threads haven't been posted in for at least a month. Don't take that as a rule, as we'll have to discuss it and come to some sort of consensus, then update the Pride Rules, but it is a widely accepted guideline.
Roquivo, I agree with you there. I think this is in part because the mod staff is so unstable/thin at the moment. When we had more moderation staff one person would bring a minor issue to our attention and we'd all be aware of it and know what to do in the future. Now, not as many issues are brought up, and it seems that we are forced to work more independantly since there are fewer of us on at the same time. So there's no conspiracy going on in The Promontory. There's nothing at all going on there, and we could stand talk a little more.Quote:
Originally posted by Roquivo
And mods, we NEED to get on the same page here. I am seeing severel different versions of the rules, and am very confused about it. How the time, I don't even know what is right and wrong anymore. We need to get the ruiles straight beofre we start getting on the forum for breaking them. Also, some organization of our leaders is needed. We need figure out stays and who goes, and such. I don't recall who said, but we reaaly aren't making enough comunications among ourselves here.[/B]
Another thing is that there really isn't a heck of a lot going on right now, so we are starting to go back to the basics and disect the pride rules. Actually, it's our duty to enforce the rules that we already have, not necessarily make new ones. The rules that we do have our very clear. But, if it's the case that we do have "unwritten" rules then they must be "written," so to speak. With Mufasa not keeping a very close eye on the forum, I suppose it is our obligation.
As for deciding if we need to remove certain people from the mod staff and possibly take on new moderators, it is something we need to look at. I'm not sure if the actual act of removing certain people from the mod staff would accomplish as much as our seeking out new additions to the staff. It's been discussed that STM, Fuzzy, and Ghalati be removed from the mod staff. In each case I would have to refrain from being a part of the decision making process because of personal matters. But, with that being said, regardless of whether they remain or not I think that at the moment we could use some additional moderators. Seeing as the active moderation staff would be almost entirely newer at that point, that would be a good time to discuss among ourselves how we are going to effectively enforce the pride rules, and specifically what each of them means.
In any case, I just restated what Roquivo said in possibly too many words. :p
Good point. Roquivo, you're doing a good job in your new role and learning as you go along, so keep it up. =) I don't think I've ever talked to you directly but feel free to PM me if you need anything.Quote:
Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Being a moderator at Lea, or another not particularly large forum for that matter isn't really all that bad... sure, you might not have the favour of everyone, but you should have confidence in your own ability. If you're getting overly stressed out by it, maybe you should step back from the situation for a moment, look at it from the outside.
(continues)
(continued)
As for me, I tend to be pretty hard-headed. I don't take any of this personally, though I do feel an obligation to help keep this forum at the same level of constructive energy I felt when I joined very early on, since it did help me out at the exact moment when my life couldn't seem more unfulfilling and gave me a new sense of hope and direction.
Just the fact that you've all been able to make impassioned comments about this forum in this thread without it collapsing into flaming spam is a testament to how you all want us to help make Lea a better place. And that's really why the thread was created in the first place -- to help give us direction toward something better. :cheese: