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Who is more evil? I, personally, think Zira is more evil. I can't recall any point at which Scar showed any point at which he could consider any alternatives to killing. Zira, in My Lullaby, said something to the extent of 'my foes, I could forgive. Trouble is, I know it's petty, but I hate to let them live'. Zira acknowledges she has it in her to forgive, but much rather take the route of violence. That is why she is more evil than Scar in my opinion.
To be honest I never considered Scar very evil. Zira is kinda crazy, but all of her hatred and spite is driven directly from the events on The Lion King, therefore all of her wrongdoings is a direct result of what Scar did... in that sense, I would say that Scar is much more evil than Zira, as anything she does, she does because of Scar.
But back to Scar... for me it was very badly played in the movie. I know what they were going for with the screenplay, they wanted to pull off Cinderella with her evil stepsisters, but that didn't kinda work. For Mufasa to be Cindirella, and Scar to be evil stepsister, Mufasa would have to be loving, supporting and gentle brother, while Scar being his usual cynical self. But that's not the case of the movie. There is not a single scene showing Mufasa being loving or caring brother. We see Scar living far away from the Pride Rock, in shade, eating scrap- as he was shoving a bone off of his ledge... and you can see that Scar is underfed. I never liked Scar, just so you'd know. Never was a great fan of his character, but even as a kid I felt that he was mistreated. The first interaction shows it all- the argument goes about a lion not coming to bow to his nephew... for me it was bit disrespectful from Scar, but at the same time the setting made me understand Scars motives. And then you see full out aggression from Mufasa just at cynical remarks. Which again made me feel that Scar was mistreated. I'm not justifying the character, or killing of a father and an infant. But you clearly could see the motivation, which in this case makes it less evil. Scar for me was just a bullied boy who finally realized he doesn't have to be bullied anymore. But anyways. Enough of my rant XD Scar deffo wasn't a nice char to be around and he was able to be mean and unkind... I wouldn't like to hang around him. So it's no Scar fanboism... just simple analysis of given material- the movie- so don't add comments relating to any other material ^^'
Sorry for lengthy comment.
~Kael
You made some very good points, Kael. I did fail to consider all the surrounding events for the characters. Zira must have felt Simba was the murderer of Scar. We see this when Zira is yelling at Kovu for wondering off. One of the questions she asks Kovu is "who killed Scar?", to which Kovu replies "Simba". Zira's hatred does seem to be mainly directed at Simba. Almost like a vendetta.
I never viewed Mufasa as a bully, but I definitely see what you mean. I always thought Mufasa was at his wits end from continuous harassment from Scar. The one thing I wondered about Scar is, why did he associate with the hyenas? In the beginning of Scar's song "Be Prepared", he says "I never thought hyenas essential". That tells me he wasn't planning it from the start of meeting the hyenas.
I agree with not citing other material in discussions like this. But, I do like to look at what is said and done by the characters. For example, in my initial post I quoted Zira from the song she sang to Kovu and in this post the song Scar sang to himself and the hyenas. But, using sociology and psychology theories to a degree can be useful. My knowledge is little in those fields though.
Edit: Could a moderator please add an "Neither" option to the poll, if they feel so inclined. I didn't think of it when I made the poll. Thank you, so much.
I must say, that's a difficult question for a clear answer. Scar is, what most people would call, evil, but very different from Zira. Think of it: Scar killed Mufasa in cold blood to get his, not completely unjustified, claim on the "throne" and then he left Simba with the impression that he was responsible of the death of his father. I think that's very mean and cunning considering the circumstances of what this is all about. It's not to save a life of a beloved one, but rather frantic power hunger.
Zira on the other hand is more offensive brutal and clearly say what she thinks of the pride landers. Most important, everyone knows that she is not a lioness to be trusted, instead of Scar. Nobody, not the lionesses or even his brother suspected him. He is the much more dangerous character and personally I like him as a villain more than Zira. In addition he has cooler expressions. ;-)
...ya know, I had this whole quasi-philosophical manifesto written about the nature of evil, insanity, the different levels/definitions/classifications thereof and how "normal" folks might perceive them...and then the forum ate my post. Alas, I am too lazy to retype it, so I'm just going to say that I voted for Scar...'cause reasons. Hehe, looks like I'm alone on that, thus far.
;)
WAT, how the hell does Scar only have one vote?? WTF??? D8
Aw, I'd be interested to read your post Dare, maybe a quick summary? :p
Personally... I think killing was just a means to an end for Scar, what he really wanted was power, he didn't care who got in his way. While Zira was a pure sadist who just wanted vengeance. But Zira was also acting out of love for Scar and her pride while Scar was acting out of greed... hmm!
I guess Scar was a more effective villain, since he actually did accomplish his goals (for a good few years, at least), while Zira... didn't get as far.
To kill anyone is evil by nature, in my opinion. But I am a pacifist, so that might be why I feel that way. So they are both evil...but Zira's just crazy on top of that. So I voted Zira. At least Scar could be reasoned with......then again Scar plotted this whole murder scheme out for a long time while I feel Zira is probably more of an impulse-killer. But then again, who am I to figure out the psychology of animated lions? xD They're both villainous and evil!
To me Zira just comes across as revenge-crazed, whereas Scar is more genuinely evil. He's not crazy and desperate, he's the slow plotting type which to me is more evil since he's had time to consider and re-consider every decision he made. Zira on the other hand is just, well.. crazy (although the long-term plot to mould Kovu as he grew was kinda evil).
Voted Scar.
I think I originally voted Zira, but after thinking about it some, I think I would change my vote to Scar. Scar was being more manipulative, cunning and all around cruel. Zira, while being a little over the top, is in her eyes in a state of war against the pridelanders. And I guess war does make the circumstances for her behavior a bit different, as she can be thought of looking after the well-being of her pride, the outlanders. As a war chief, she's responsible for showing determination for her pride in order to win over the pridelanders, and I guess that could contribute to her obsessive behavior.
In my opinion Zira is more evil.
Scar has reasons to be like that - he was younger and weaker than Mufasa. Also his eccentric nature may caused he felt rejected by the pride.
In Zira all I see is hate. She's just an evil psycho.
Scar has an opportunity to kill Simba, but instead he gave the order to the hyenas to do it. Maybe he just wasn't evil enough to actually kill an innocent cub by himself?
In my opinion in that instance Scar was just being careful, his ultimate goal was the throne, so to get caught killing Simba would have been disastrous to that plan. Using the hyenas was a foolproof way to get past that (or almost foolproof since they didn't kill him).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nit
Agreed! :) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Azerane
So I had another thought about this whole Zira vs Scar thing, and I feel like one of the key differences is that Scar's evil was based on self preservation and self gain. Scar didn't attempt to kill Simba himself and do the dirty work, because he needed to triumph afterwards. Whereas Zira was pretty much entirely revenge based. She wanted to Kovu to be King, but only so that they could get back at Simba. She wasn't afraid to do the dirty work herself, because all that mattered was getting back at Simba and if she had to die doing it, then so be it.