Mufasa and Scar

Let's think about these two characters for a moment or two. Mainly, their relationship and their reasons for the way they are.

Firstly, assuming that they are brothers from the same mother and father... Is Mufasa ruler simply because he's an older cub? Or was Mufasa chosen between the two cubs from the same litter because he simply showed more promise as a future King, or simply because he was his Father's favourite. In which case, if Scar had been chosen instead, how would have Mufasa reacted? Would he have grown bitter in the same way that Scar had?

Alternatively, is it possible that Scar had no hard feelings about Mufasa becoming King, but after he was promised the throne, perhaps Mufasa started treating Scar differently (although this theory seems less plausible considering Mufasa and Scar's interaction behind Pride Rock after the presentation of Simba).

Secondly, I know that there's Ahadi and Uru, however it seems also possible to me that the cubs could have been from different mothers (hence explaining their drastically different appearance colour-wise), and Scar's mother may not have been the queen and so therefore Scar wasn't eligible to be King like Mufasa was or something. Though that's getting a little bit more creative.

In terms of Mufasa having a cub and Scar's reaction. I get the feeling, that until Simba had come along, Scar had been simply biding his time and was perhaps hoping that Mufasa would simply come to an end and he would then inherit from him. However the birth of Simba threw all that down the drain and he had to find other ways of obtaining the Pride Lands.

So... discuss:) :thinks:

Whoa, quite some discussion to have :lol:

I think there's something about it in A Tale of Two Brothers about why Mufasa was the one chosen to be King, but I think it'd be because Ahadi saw much more maturity and wisdom in Mufasa. Though him being the eldest son also counts for something :uhno:

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Originally Posted by Azerane

Firstly, assuming that they are brothers from the same mother and father... Is Mufasa ruler simply because he's an older cub? Or was Mufasa chosen between the two cubs from the same litter because he simply showed more promise as a future King, or simply because he was his Father's favourite.

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I honestly think it could be both. I'm sure Ahadi loved both of his sons equally, but the "first born" seem to be the ones chosen to inherit the throne afterwards, so it could be simply because Mufasa was born before Scar that Ahadi chose him to take the throne afterwards, or it could be because they saw a much more mature and noble presence in Mufasa than they did Scar, like Leor said.

Either way, I think Scar was jealous with the amount of attention Mufasa was having and felt somewhat like the "black sheep" of the family, simply because he wanted to be chosen instead.

I think it could also be because Ahadi taught Mufasa more about being a ruler just like Mufasa did to Simba when he was born. This would explain why Scar was so bitter and twisted in the movie towards Simba and Mufasa, and the fact that Simba would be the new king after Mufasa, which is why he plotted to kill them both.

I haven't thought much about how Mufasa may have reacted if he wasn't chosen, but I somehow don't think he would've reacted like Scar did. There just seems to be a dark presence in Scar which makes him very villain-worthy. Mufasa doesn't look evil at all. :p

I haven't read "A Tale of Two Brothers" yet, but I don't doubt that it'll be an interesting read. Interesting thread too, btw. :) This subject has always fascinated me like the one with Kopa.

@Leor: Yes, I feel like really diving back into TLK again and exploring things that it's been so very long since I explored.

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Originally Posted by King Simba

I think it could also be because Ahadi taught Mufasa more about being a ruler just like Mufasa did to Simba when he was born. This would explain why Scar was so bitter and twisted in the movie towards Simba and Mufasa, and the fact that Simba would be the new king after Mufasa, which is why he plotted to kill them both.

I haven't thought much about how Mufasa may have reacted if he wasn't chosen, but I somehow don't think he would've reacted like Scar did. There just seems to be a dark presence in Scar which makes him very villain-worthy. Mufasa doesn't look evil at all. :p

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Well of course Mufasa wasn't designed to look evil, he's the good guy after all :p But it was more of a, could Mufasa have turned out evil if he hadn't received the attention from Ahadi that he did.

The thing with Ahadi loving them equally, I'd say you're most probably right, but when the other cub simply receives more attention because they're future King, it would be hard not to see that as favouratism, no matter how much Ahadi tried to appeal to Taka/Scar.

In terms of teaching the cubs, I would have thought that Ahadi would have taught them both equally for the most part, because there would always be the chance that Mufasa wouldn't survive his cub-hood due to predators, accident etc. And being brothers, Ahadi may have perhaps shared the experiences with both of them (going up to the top of Pride Rock etc) but would have directed the lessons more at Mufasa than Scar. I can't see that they wouldn't have taught Scar, because if something had happened to Mufasa, Scar would need to know about ruling the kingdom, although as he and Mufasa got older, I imagine his outings with Ahadi and Mufasa with kingdom-related themes would have lessened.

Alternatively, there's the option that Mufasa was destined to be King from birth, and then there's the option that they were born equally, and Ahadi had to later choose which son would make the best King. In either options, Scar could have simply been born evil (so to speak) or he could have become evil from resentment or jealousy and an inability to accept that he isn't in line to be King or didn't have the makings of a king.

A way of looking at it, would to be to compare Scar and Kovu. Kovu is quite a nice character when it comes down to it, he was simply trained and designed by Zira to be evil, however he wasn't born evil. Scar on the other hand, seems to have evil that runs deeper through him, and is either based on a very deep feeling of hatred, betrayel and jealousy that has been with him for a very long time, or that he simply was born with that evil within him and as a cub, it could have gone either way. But because of his circumstances in life, it was promoted.

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Originally Posted by Azerane

Well of course Mufasa wasn't designed to look evil, he's the good guy after all :p But it was more of a, could Mufasa have turned out evil if he hadn't received the attention from Ahadi that he did.

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Well, as far as that goes, I somewhat agree with your point when you said Scar could have been born evil. And I know Mufasa wasn't designed to look evil, Scar was designed to look evil because he's the bad guy of course. ;) Because of how Scar was raised, I meant that he just looks more like the type of lion who would get jealous easily and have a lot of resentment relating to that. I don't know why, but I honestly couldn't see Mufasa ending up in the same way Scar did. Probably because of his personality and his maturity.

There's a lot to think about in this subject, and a lot of theories that can be thrown around, but I still say Mufasa was made King because he was the first born of the two. I don't really see how Ahadi would have picked between them any other way, except maybe favouritism like you said, but if he loved them equally, it would have been difficult to pick who would follow in his pawprints, so I think it's more a case of tradition than anything. I just think Scar felt more like the black sheep of the family, hence why he had all the resentment towards Mufasa. Another thing, I read that Ahadi broke promises to Scar, so that could have some effect on his thoughts too, and would suggest some favouritism towards Mufasa if he offered more attention towards him and not Scar.

Like an idiot, I just remembered that Scar refers to Mufasa as his 'big brother' :lol: So obviously they either were twins and Ahadi and Uru noted which was firstborn, or they are from different litters, depending on how you look at it. Though Scar's reference to Mufasa as his big brother not only gives you their relationship, but it does hint at the 'curse you for being firstborn and therefore having the right to be king' thing... :evilgrin: which tells me that Mufasa was not chosen from between the two but simply had the right because he was older. In terms of Scar, I think you are right though, he is simply more inherently evil than Mufasa would have ever been, even if he was put in the same position as Scar as a younger brother.

According to John Burkitt and David Morris's "Chronicles of the Pride Lands", Taka was always a little bit jealous of Mufasa, but the jealousy was amplifies tenfold when he was attacked by a demon-possessed albino badger, and the demon jumped to Taka, who then demanded to be called Scar for the scar left by the badger.

It was also suggested that Taka and Sarabi were engaged to be mates, when Ahadi declared the Sarabi would be queen and marry Mufasa, and neither Mufasa or Sarabi, who were fond of each other, objected. That would be enough to drive ME insane!

I often think if the roles had been switched, say Taka was announced King and Mufasa was not and had some form on bitterness towards Taka, he could easy over throw him simply because of his sheer "brute strength". :lol: Taka was never really designed, from birth I suppose, to be a King. I never read the COTPL (which I'd like to eventually). It's unfortunate when I think about Taka that his life's energy was devoted, out of grief, rejection and internal torment, to strike back and become King. And in the movie when he bacame King, it became a desolate Shadowland because over all those years of his scheming, his heart was black and his reign was that of his heart, bitter, desolate and dark. Certainly he was handed unfortunate situations in his life, had things taken from him but I also wonder why the two couldn't have ruled together and expanded the pridelands.

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I personally just couldn't see Scar being a successful ruler. I mean, look what happened to the Pride Lands once Mufasa was gone :cringe:. I think that Ahadi and Uru probably could forsee that Scar would let the power go to his head, which helped confirm the choice of firstborn as king.

Also, we do not know how much older Mufasa is than Scar. If Mufasa was a year older, he would have grown up hearing that he was to be king. Once Taka came along, Mufasa would have already known about his future for quite some time so it would seem unjust to take that away from him and give it to Taka.

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Originally Posted by Feral

It was also suggested that Taka and Sarabi were engaged to be mates, when Ahadi declared the Sarabi would be queen and marry Mufasa, and neither Mufasa or Sarabi, who were fond of each other, objected. That would be enough to drive ME insane!

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Feral, I'd forgotten about the idea of Scar and Sarabi being engaged to be mates. It would certainly help to explain it. I was thinking that I didn't think that 'choosing' a queen would be a tradition like that, but at the same time, we hear about it in TLK when Zazu is telling Simba and Nala how they're one day going to be married and "it's a tradition, going back generations". So in that case, it is likely that Scar and Sarabi were engaged by choice, but in terms of who was more likely to make a better queen, by default, that lioness has to marry the future King.

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Originally Posted by Utora

Certainly he was handed unfortunate situations in his life, had things taken from him but I also wonder why the two couldn't have ruled together and expanded the pridelands.

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I find that an interesting concept, to have two brothers ruling side-by-side, after all, it happens with real lions in the wild. In some regards, I think it's expanded on by some people in the fandom with a setting after TLK:SP with Simba, Nala, Kovu and Kiara ruling somewhat together as a way of teaching them etc.

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Originally Posted by Simbaspirit

Also, we do not know how much older Mufasa is than Scar. If Mufasa was a year older, he would have grown up hearing that he was to be king. Once Taka came along, Mufasa would have already known about his future for quite some time so it would seem unjust to take that away from him and give it to Taka.

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On that note, what would have been especially interesting, was if Scar had been the older brother, but had had the kingdom rights taken away from him because of something Ahadi and Uru saw in him vs Mufasa. Now that would have pissed him off ;)