What's Your Religion?

[la_reina]

Which of the following religions do you belong to?

1) Christianity

2) Buddhism

3) Judaism

4) Islam

5) No religion--Atheist

[Lion King Stu]

i'm christian

[King Simba]

http://leahalalela.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2237&highlight=Religion

Anyway I'm christian.

[klowd]

I'm a no beliver/Atheist...I lost my faith so much ago...the people here are Christians though.

[lion_roog]

Roman Catholic...so I guess Christian....:D

[unregistered user]

Christian.;)

[Xinithian]

Athiest.

[TakaTiger]

Puh... religon... i hate Organized Religon (no offence to neone here)

[A-non-a-mus]

non-denominational Christian ;)

[Banzai]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Roman Catholic...so I guess Christian....:D

same here! :cheese:

[Iestyn]

Does Satanism count? :evilgrin:

[King Simba]

I haven't even been christened yet...:eww:

[TakaTiger]

I used to go to church when i was like.....5.... but not sence oO

[jannali]

I'm agnostic. Basically I belive in god but dont follow any organized religion. technically i guess im jewish because my dad is but we dont go to church or anything

[Darkslash]

Lutheran (ELCA), although I mostly define my beliefs stricter than they do.

[Juniper]

Non-denominational Christian. :)

Don't really go to church, seems to me there's too many hypocrits in church. I especially dislike the ones who think everything short of breathing is a sin and the kind that teach to love your neighbor but turn around and hate different groups of people.

I'm not either of those :p

[Dare]

My religion isn't up there...the closest thing you could catagorize me as being is probably what some people call "Native American Shamanist"...and even then, I still hold beliefs from Christianity, Shinto, and Buddhism.

[lion_roog]

I like Gandhi's view of religion...he basically said....I am Hindu, I am also Christian, Muslim, and Buddist. (even though Buddism isn't technically a religion)

[nafklt]

No religion, although I'd like to be part of the FCOS...:P My grandma practices buddhism (vegetarian and such) though but she's not a monk (therefore not bald and stuff;) )...:P


Originally posted by lion_roog
I like Gandhi's view of religion...he basically said....I am Hindu, I am also Christian, Muslim, and Buddist. (even though Buddism isn't technically a religion)

Well, technically you can make up your religon since there's no standards saying that there must be a god of any sort...;) Roogism? :p :lol:

[2 Die FR]

hehe I'm Mormon :cheese: That wasn't on the list but falls under the category of Christianity.
Ever seen those guys in white shirts on bicycles that knock on people's doors? Yup, those are Mormons! ;)

[Kasun]

I think I was Catholic, anywyays, I picked Atheist, cuz i havent been to church in years.

[CheshireCat]

Christian.

Roman Catholic.

[soulImbibe]

I'm agnostic, neither confirming or denying the existence of a supreme God. In Dante's Inferno agnostics get to chase banners while being stung by wasps for not picking a side, rejection by heaven and hell.

To quote Jimmy Buffett: "Religion's in the hands of some crazy-a$$ people"

:) Just kidding, you guys are cool.

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
hehe I'm Mormon :cheese: That wasn't on the list but falls under the category of Christianity.
Ever seen those guys in white shirts on bicycles that knock on people's doors? Yup, those are Mormons! ;)
Really? I used to live in Utah.

[2 Die FR]

Originally posted by Darkslash
Really? I used to live in Utah.
Definitely a good place to find Mormons, Dark/ ;)

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Definitely a good place to find Mormons, Dark/ ;)
Yeah it is... But not a good place to find Lutherans :cheese:

every 1/4 mile or so there's another Mormon ward...

There was a kid at my summer camp who tried to convert the staff to Mormonism, I even got a Book of Mormon from him.

[2 Die FR]

Did you read it??
(Inquiring minds want to know!)

[Darkslash]

I read the intro.

[Endra]

I be jewish :D

[2 Die FR]

Originally posted by Darkslash
I read the intro.
:cheese:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by nafklt


Well, technically you can make up your religon since there's no standards saying that there must be a god of any sort...;) Roogism? :p :lol:

:haha:....I'm too lazy to start my own religion....Hell, I hate starting dinner.....:D

[nathalie]

I voted "no religion".

I am a Christian though, brought up Catholic, but I don't believe in any of that stuff.

[unregistered user]

Islam:cheese: ......

[Lion King Stu]

to be honest i am proberly actually part Athiest when I think bout it cause I don't go to church and other christiany stuff lol

[Kovu]

I'm supposedly Buddhist, 'cause my mom is, and i do find their philosophies meaningful. :hakuna:
It'll be cool if there's Kovuism, though. :D :p

[Lion King Stu]

proberly somewhere on a uncharted island there is kovu along with Twilightism lol :lol:

[unregistered user]

I don't belong to any religion but I'm not pure Athiest either.

[unregistered user]

Catholic, i really don't believe all, but Im for sure:ayecapn:

[Muruwa]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
hehe I'm Mormon :cheese: That wasn't on the list but falls under the category of Christianity.
Ever seen those guys in white shirts on bicycles that knock on people's doors? Yup, those are Mormons! ;)
Hey cool, I'm Mormon too *high five* :cheese: :D

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by lion_roog
(even though Buddism isn't technically a religion)

christianity isn't either.... it's a faith... not a religion....

[Azerane]

I'm a Lutheran, therefore a Christian. :D:cheese:

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
christianity isn't either.... it's a faith... not a religion.... No, it's a religion.

[nafklt]

Religion... If it's real, good. If it's not, at least it keeps people honest...:hmm:

[unregistered user]

I am a non-denominational Christian, though I believe pretty much what a Pentecostal Christian would, I don't believe in any by-laws though (laws that the chrurch, not the Bible, makes up). I believe in following the Bible itself instead of what the modern church says. Albeit that the bible was written by men, I believe it was divinely inspired. ^^

It's interesting hearing about all of your religions :)

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by CheshireCat
Christian.

Roman Catholic. You're a
Personal
Jesus...

[unregistered user]

I checked on yahoo dictionary thing and found what the word 'religion' actually means.

1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

You be the judge of it. But to me personally, Christianity (all denominations) and Buddhism both fit into that category ^^

[unregistered user]

I'm an atheist.

[nafklt]

w00t!! Welcome back Ravoc!! :cheese: :hugs:

[Simba '04]

Christian all the way :cheese:, even rededicated my life to Jesus Christ during revival at my church last week ;) :cheese:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
christianity isn't either.... it's a faith... not a religion....

Christianity shares the characteristics that define religion.


You be the judge of it. But to me personally, Christianity (all denominations) and Buddhism both fit into that category ^^

I'll look into the Buddhism thing, it's just I was talking with a Professor (forgot what University he teaches at) and he was explaining to me that Buddhism isn't technically a religion. He wasn't trying to take anything from Buddhism or anything. I forgot most of what he told me (it was about 5 years ago) and I don't want to try to explain what I remember without making sure I explain it truthfully and accurately..

[nafklt]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Christianity shares the characteristics that define religion.



I'll look into the Buddhism thing, it's just I was talking with a Professor (forgot what University he teaches at) and he was explaining to me that Buddhism isn't technically a religion. He wasn't trying to take anything from Buddhism or anything. I forgot most of what he told me (it was about 5 years ago) and I don't want to try to explain what I remember without making sure I explain it truthfully and accurately..

Maybe that guy didn't want to believe that any other religion existed except for his own...:hmm: There are a lot of people like that. :hmm:

[StalkingWolf]

I am a born-again christian:D, but I am curious:hmm:....:confused: I find it quite interesting how many of you say you are mormon, or roman catholic, or etc. in otherwords christian, which blows my mind, because a christian is different then a roman catholic or a mormon, or even several other religions that people categorize a christian as!!!!

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by nafklt
Maybe that guy didn't want to believe that any other religion existed except for his own...:hmm: There are a lot of people like that. :hmm:

Could be....the only reason it came up was because I said something about Buddhism being the third largest religion in the world with 1 billion people....but he told me that Buddhism only has about 400,000 members and then he started to explain how it's not actually a religion....he knew quite a bit about it since it was his field. But it's always good to find out for yourself and check other sources.

[lion_roog]

Born again?....does that mean you have two birthdays now?.....:D

[unregistered user]

nafklt, I never left. Just been busy is all. But thank you still :D

[StalkingWolf]

:lol: yes kind of! born-again means you had to births, a physical birth, and a spiritual birth.....in other words, born from your mother's womb, and then born again through the washing and the regeneration of the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5... (salvation and faith through Jesus Christ) The Bible says in John 3:16..."For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

[lion_roog]

Wait, wait, wait....what's this about being born from your Mother's Womb???....We are delivered by storks....you parents need to have a talk with you..:ayecapn:





:D :kiss: :D

[StalkingWolf]

:lol: you asked so i told you :p that is what i believe!!!!

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
:lol: you asked so i told you :p that is what i believe!!!!

I refuse to believe that I came from my Mother's womb....what is a womb?....but I am interested in this....how does this womb thing work?....what creates it?.....If I joined your religion....would I have to come from a womb, too?......:D

[StalkingWolf]

your crazy!!!!:idiot: please tell me you are just joking and that you know what a womb is?????:p

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
your crazy!!!!:idiot: please tell me you are just joking and that you know what a womb is?????:p

:haha:...Come on....am I known for joking around?.....Now tell me how babies are made!.....:D

I like to believe that we come from Baby Seeds that we plant in the ground.....:D

[StalkingWolf]

well......I think your just acting as a dumb 20 yr old but i'll explain for fun:p A womb is the mother's stomach, in which the baby develops inside:lol: and then the baby is born, after nine months of course, its as simple as that:p :idiot:

[lion_roog]

:gasp:....How Dare You Call Me 20 Years Old!!!.....I maybe 20 years old physically..:cheese: ......But I act 8 years old....don't make me grow up....I don't wanna grow up!...I'm a Toys'R'Us Kid!....I want my Mommy!.......:D

[StalkingWolf]

thats for sure:p, there is a lot of things you could learn about the christian religion, many things that you would have never thought of, that make a lot of sense! Anyway, I am outta here, I need some shut-eye! see ya :ayecapn:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
thats for sure:p, there is a lot of things you could learn about the christian religion, many things that you would have never thought of, that make a lot of sense! Anyway, I am outta here, I need some shut-eye! see ya :ayecapn:

I don't wanna learn anymore....four years of religious classes are enough.....:D.....the Bible is a pretty interesting read, though.....:D...I want to read the Quran, next.....:D

[StalkingWolf]

you can never get enough knowledge of the Bible!!!! You could study it for a lifetime and not even get everything out of it that is there!It is the most important book in the world! More copies of the Bible have been sold then any other book in the world!!!!And what is the Quran?????

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
you can never get enough knowledge of the Bible!!!! You could study it for a lifetime and not even get everything out of it that is there!It is the most important book in the world! More copies of the Bible have been sold then any other book in the world!!!!And what is the Quran?????

Quran is a... Islam version of bible...
:evilgrin:
we muslim call it Quran:evilgrin:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
you can never get enough knowledge of the Bible!!!! You could study it for a lifetime and not even get everything out of it that is there!It is the most important book in the world! More copies of the Bible have been sold then any other book in the world!!!!And what is the Quran?????

That is probably true. I don't care too much for the Old Testament, but the first four books of the New Testament I feel everyone can learn from no matter what they believe in; Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Gandhi had the same feeling of the Bible.

[Kovu]

Originally posted by lion_roog
I'll look into the Buddhism thing, it's just I was talking with a Professor (forgot what University he teaches at) and he was explaining to me that Buddhism isn't technically a religion.
IMHO, Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, like Confusianism and Taoism. Much like a way of life, with more advice and practices instead of rules or regulations. Just what i think. :)
Maybe it's also because Siddhartha Gautama(sp?) was the founder of the religion, and he's human, not a supernatural being.


Originally posted by lion_roog
Born again?....does that mean you have two birthdays now?.....:D
I was born again through Kovuism. :D
But i forgot which date it was. :confused: :D
Or maybe i'm still undergoing rebirth. :D :p

[lion_roog]

If I believe I'm a Supernatural Being...can I create my own religion.....:D....Then sell it for profit....:evilgrin:

[Dare]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
I am a born-again christian:D, but I am curious:hmm:....:confused: I find it quite interesting how many of you say you are mormon, or roman catholic, or etc. in otherwords christian, which blows my mind, because a christian is different then a roman catholic or a mormon, or even several other religions that people categorize a christian as!!!!

Am I correct in my interpretation...that you just said that Roman Catholics, Mormons, etc are different from Christians?
:confused:
The last time I checked, Roman Catholicism was a branch of Christianity.
I?m not sure about the others?I haven?t studied them in great detail as of yet...they're on my to-do list.
;)

The definition of what "Christian" is highly subjective, of course. I define the term "Christian" down to it's most basic element...a "Christian" is basically anyone who follows the teachings of Christ, no matter what church they may or may not be a part of.
That doesn?t mean that everyone who claims to be a follower of Christ is a ?Christian? however?in my book, if you only talk the talk but don?t walk the walk, you?re just insulting the religion you claim to follow (same goes for any religion, Christian or not).
:ayecapn:

[lion_roog]

Correct, Wicked. The Catholic church is the original Christian denomination and over history groups have broken off from it, for various reasons and disagreements with the Church, and formed their own churches. There are even over 20 denominations of Catholic, the two biggest being Roman and Byzantine Catholics.

[Dare]

AHA! I knew that something must have leaked into my brain during all of those Theology classes I snoozed through.
I is an academonic sponge!
:wow:

[StalkingWolf]

You are right Wicked, forgive me I phrased that wrong! Yes, a loose term for "christianity" is characterized as those(anyone) who follow the teachings of Christ, what I was thinking and what I wrote were not the same thing, then again it was 2 in the morn.:p A true christian though is one who "professes" Christ as there saviour and then "follows" him! Many will say one thing and then do another though, like you said talk the talk, but not walk the walk, that is categorized as the everyday world view christian! (the loose term "christianity")

[nafklt]

And then there was Protestantism that broke off Catholicism because of something to do with the Church spending money or something. And branching off Protestatism was Presbytarianism and Puritanism.. .:hmm: I'm just reading off a book...:P

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by nafklt
And then there was Protestantism that broke off Catholicism because of something to do with the Church spending money or something. And branching off Protestatism was Presbytarianism and Puritanism.. .:hmm: I'm just reading off a book...:P
Yeah... Christianity has a crazy history... yay for Martin Luther! and John Calvin too.

[nafklt]

:P And Orthodox...:confused:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
A true christian though is one who "professes" Christ as there saviour and then "follows" him!

Ah, I see what you're talking about now.:cheese: I have not met anyone who could call themself a true Christian, except for priests. I can't call myself a true Christian. Not that many people are willing to give up worldly possessions to follow Christ.

[StalkingWolf]

well question, if your a christian and you have been saved and accepted Christ as your saviour and you will be going to heaven someday, what is the difference then giving up your wordly possessions now, because you don't get to take them with you to heaven anyway, possessions last only for a little time, but treasures that you have in heaven last for an eternity, (but those have to be earned or gained!!!!)

[Simba '04]

good point there SW ;)

[unregistered user]

It also goes by interpretation, which can really make things a big problem. Which is why all of tthose denominations exit.

First came Jesus and he told Peter that he would be the rock of which the church would be founded.

Early Christians had to go in hiding a LOT.

Then Constantine came along and allowed Christianity to last due to a vision he reported to have seen of a cross. The early church begins to develop finally after years of being tortured by the Roman Empire.

After Constantine, Justinian came along, and here's where problems start. Justinian took what Constantine one step further. He made Christianity the national religion, so that anyone who wasn't a Christian had to pay a special tax among other things. Saint Augustine was against this and wrote 'The City of God' which defines that there should indeed be a difference between church (or any religion for that matter) and state. Justinian basically ignored it though. By making it a national religion, big time money goes to the churhes which instantly begin to prosper from it. Problem is that all the people of the Roman Empire recall hearing different teachings than the others. So they all get together for a conference and figure out what they believe to be the true writings and get rid of what the majority considered heresy. And thus... Catholicism was made.

Now I have to back up a bit to Constantine. He had built a second capital for the Empire in Constantinople, in which he founded a church as well while there was already one in Rome. And when the Empire splits up later, Catholics and Orthodox split as well.

Then fast forward to 1500-something Martin Luther realizes that the Catholic church is corrupt because of indulgences and worshipping relics and odd rituals and ruitines, and penance.

The rest would take even longer to explain :gasp: So I'll let you go figure the rest out.

[StalkingWolf]

yes but that was back then, christianity has a much different toll on life now then it did back then, there is so many different religions, that many of them are considered under the christian category! But different religions believe in different things and there teaching styles and techniques are not the same as they once were! I know all the stuff already you mentioned but, religion this day in time is much different then back then!

[unregistered user]

Not completely SW, the past is rooted in all of us. But yes, one could say that all the religions have 'evolved'.

Oxymoron much?

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
well question, if your a christian and you have been saved and accepted Christ as your saviour and you will be going to heaven someday, what is the difference then giving up your wordly possessions now, because you don't get to take them with you to heaven anyway, possessions last only for a little time, but treasures that you have in heaven last for an eternity, (but those have to be earned or gained!!!!)

True, what I meant was that many people can't place Christ above earthly goods and such...their possesssions mean too much to them.....I wasn't saying you couldn't have them, just that if people had to choose, most would turn their back on Jesus and his teachings to gain a little more wealth in this world. I confess that I've done it, too. It seems more people worship money and other things nowadays than Jesus, until they need help. I try not to be like that, but I'm not perfect.

[Simba '04]

no one on this planet is even close to being perfect, only God is ;)

[unregistered user]

That's right. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." ~Romans *forgets chapter and verse, I was always horrible with numbers.... no pun intended :lol: (*cough.. the book of Numbers... in the Bible.. nevermind -_-";;)

[StalkingWolf]

were you calling me an oxymoron Ravoc???:p

[nafklt]

I thought since everyone was discussing about this topic, I would bring this question up,
What's "original sin"? :confused:

Me <---Confused guy

[lion_roog]

Original sin is the sin you inherit from Adam and Eve...it is forgiven with Baptism....according to Catholicism, atleast....:cheese:

[nafklt]

Oh...cool, I get it. But then why did they eat the forbidden apples? :confused:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by nafklt
Oh...cool, I get it. But then why did they eat the forbidden apples? :confused:

Because apples taste good and ofcoarse the best apples always have to be the evil apples of doom or something like that....:D

[nafklt]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Because apples taste good and ofcoarse the best apples always have to be the evil apples of doom or something like that....:D

:lol::lol: Okay... whatever ya' say roog! :lol: *gives roog an evil apple* XD :lol:

[unregistered user]

We don't know if they were apples or not, it doesn't say, somehow someone out there decided to say it was apples they ate, but we really don't know.

Original sin... according to the dictionary...: In Christian theology, the condition of sin that marks all humans as a result of Adam's first act of disobedience.

And SW, hehe nah.. I wasn't calling you an oxymoron :p :cheese: :hugs:

[Lion Roar]

No religion... I believe in God though.

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by Ravoc
We don't know if they were apples or not, it doesn't say, somehow someone out there decided to say it was apples they ate, but we really don't know.

yeah, I've heard that it could have been pomegranates... because they're appealing to the eye (in fact they used to hang these fruits at the bottom of they're robes, because of this... and they grow great where the garden of eden is thought to have been located... and they have a bittersweet flavor...

but, who knows....

[Suki]

Suki=Christian.

[Xinithian]

When I'm out of school I'm never going to touch a bible again.

[2 Die FR]

Originally posted by Muruwa
Hey cool, I'm Mormon too *high five* :cheese: :D
*high fives back* coolness!!!:cheese: :D Thats sooo cool Muruwa

[StalkingWolf]

hey nafklt, in the Bible it tells the story of Adam and Eve, and Satan was in the garden also, because of the temptation from Satan he tricked Eve and told her that if she ate of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then she would become as gods, which was a lie! That is where the "original sin" came into place(like Ravoc said), and it has passed on from generation to generation!!!!! The Bible does not say whether what Eve ate was an apple, it just says the "the fruit of..."

Oh, and Ravoc I knew ya didn't call me that :p I was just kidding with ya;)

[Inuchance]

Like I said earlier (I think, too lazy to go through the thread and see what I said earlier, if I even said anything at all), I'm agnostic, so I don't really hold any firm beliefs at all, though I periodically recheck my stance on things.

Recently, though, I've decided that if God did exist, and he wanted us to worship him and everything, he'd make himself known. However, since he doesn't make an obvious presence, that leads me to believe he wants us to continue on with our lives as if he didn't exist, while he runs things behind-the-scenes, assuming that he does exist. :confused:

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by Inuchance
Like I said earlier (I think, too lazy to go through the thread and see what I said earlier, if I even said anything at all), I'm agnostic, so I don't really hold any firm beliefs at all, though I periodically recheck my stance on things.

Recently, though, I've decided that if God did exist, and he wanted us to worship him and everything, he'd make himself known. However, since he doesn't make an obvious presence, that leads me to believe he wants us to continue on with our lives as if he didn't exist, while he runs things behind-the-scenes, assuming that he does exist. :confused:
Like Deism? Deism holds that God wound up the universe like a clock and just sat back and watched it all.

[kourukon]

i picked Atheist..... though i believe in something... don't know how to call it... "nature"? or maybe "fate"? but no, not God.

[Inuchance]

Originally posted by kourukon
don't know how to call it... "nature"? or maybe "fate"?

The Force? :evilgrin:

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by Inuchance
Recently, though, I've decided that if God did exist, and he wanted us to worship him and everything, he'd make himself known. However, since he doesn't make an obvious presence, that leads me to believe he wants us to continue on with our lives as if he didn't exist, while he runs things behind-the-scenes, assuming that he does exist. :confused:

ehm... it wouldn't be a 'faith' then if he were to make an obvious appearance...

becides, IMO he does make himself known, you just have to look carefully........ but you decide whatever... I'm not here to force beliefs into others...

[Dare]

Anyone who claims to be God these days is either

A) thrown in the looney bin
B) the leader of a cult

:p

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
ehm... it wouldn't be a 'faith' then if he were to make an obvious appearance...

becides, IMO he does make himself known, you just have to look carefully........ but you decide whatever... I'm not here to force beliefs into others...

I was going to say faith too.:p

[nafklt]

Originally posted by Wicked
Anyone who claims to be God these days is either

A) thrown in the looney bin
B) the leader of a cult

:P

:lol::P Canadian dollar coins are also called loonies...:P


Originally posted by Ravoc
We don't know if they were apples or not, it doesn't say, somehow someone out there decided to say it was apples they ate, but we really don't know.

Original sin... according to the dictionary...: In Christian theology, the condition of sin that marks all humans as a result of Adam's first act of disobedience.

And SW, hehe nah.. I wasn't calling you an oxymoron :p :cheese: :hugs:

Oh... okay...:hmm:

But is there an actual Garden of Eden or may it be a metaphor of the whole entire world? :confused: It sounds sort of logical if it is because if the world is controlled by God, Adam and Eve would be portraying from the original Adam and Eve to all the peoples of the world we see today...*confused*


Originally posted by StalkingWolf
hey nafklt, in the Bible it tells the story of Adam and Eve, and Satan was in the garden also, because of the temptation from Satan he tricked Eve and told her that if she ate of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then she would become as gods, which was a lie! That is where the "original sin" came into place(like Ravoc said), and it has passed on from generation to generation!!!!! The Bible does not say whether what Eve ate was an apple, it just says the "the fruit of..."

Oh, and Ravoc I knew ya didn't call me that :p I was just kidding with ya;)

That reminds me of a famous painting called "Eve Tempted" by John Stanhope...:confused:

If the Devil's name is Satan, what is the God's name? :confused:

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Definitely a good place to find Mormons, Dark/ ;)

yeah, Gilbert, AZ too =\

I, however, am not Mormon.

Officially, I'm Christian, but I haven't been to church since i was 7 or 8, and even then i didn't really like going.

Personally, I'm a non-believer, but mainly because I find no reason to believe coupled with the fact that I hate talking about religion... it's just one more way to make people different so you can discriminate more easily.

Besides, I find things like evolution more likely than things like creation. Just my personal belief. I don't like the idea that some omniscient being is in complete control of every element of my life because if that's true, I'm really screwed because whatever divine being is "out there" he/she/it is never on my side.

[unregistered user]

Not so Prince Simba.

First the evolution thing- Have you ever thought that Evolution and Creation not to be two different things? Scientists say there was a 'Big Bang', well.. in the Bible, God says 'Let there be light'.. now, if there had never been light before, don't you think that it would come into existence with a bang? Think of how a star forms, or for that instance think of starting a fire, the spark appears in a flash. The rest of evolution though (monkey/human thing, I completely disagree with though).

Nafklt, you could be right, we don't know for sure if the Garden of Eden was a metaphor or not, hard to say, it could've been though, very nice theory ;)

Last one for ya Prince Simba, as for the omniscient being, being in control. Yes he is, but he gives all of us free will, he doesn't have us moving around like robots and such. I believe that he has a special purpose for all of us, but it is up to us and our actions if we fulfill that purpose. And don't be so certaint hat he's not on your side, God is with you always, has been and will be untill the day that you die ;)

It all depends on faith though, your choice =)

[Darkslash]

Here's pretty much how I sum up my beliefs and reasons for believing:

+ God created the world. It is impossible to say exactly how long it took.
+ He created humans in his image, perfect; but Eve by indulging in the forbidden fruit, being influenced by the serpent/devil introduced sin into the world. All humans are inherently doomed to hell because they fall short of God's perfect standard.
+ Jesus died in order to be a purifying filter for us (filtering out our sins before God) -- if we accept this. One cannot go to heaven without accepting Jesus -- who hence "saves" us.
+ I believe that there is a perfect standard of behavior that, if one was able to follow it perfectly, could lead to heaven without Jesus. Since this is impossible to do, the prime object of life should be to strive to behave as close to that standard, however hard to define (but easier to recognize by experience and study), as possible.
+ Some people's actions fall closer to the standard than others. Regardless, I believe that if one does not strive with all their power to behave according to this standard and yet accepts Jesus' saving power, they are mocking God and really do not have that purifying filter... and will be at God's mercy.

I guess that's it.... never really took the time to spell it all out until now. You could say I'm a fundamentalist, I suppose.

To Prince Simba: (don't answer these if you don't want to)

What makes you hesitant to discuss religion?
Why do you think religion invites discrimination?
What has led you to believe that God is a controller who works against you?
What do you find appealing about evolution over creation?

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by Darkslash
To Prince Simba: (don't answer these if you don't want to)

What makes you hesitant to discuss religion?
Why do you think religion invites discrimination?
What has led you to believe that God is a controller who works against you?
What do you find appealing about evolution over creation?

1) I don't like the word athiest. It just doesn't sound appealing to me. And I don't like being labled. And I'm not really hesitant to discuss it, it's just that I don't like talking about it because most people who I talk to will either call me a sinner or try to convert me... or just think less of me.

2) It just adds another difference to the "discrimination table" or whatever.

3) Nothing, and that's incorrect. What I meant to say earlier is that I don't agree with the idea that God can influence almost anything that happens to me. It's one of those He-can-end-the-world-if-he-wants-to kind of things, and I really don't agree with that. Besides, if God has ever granted - or even heard - a single one of my prayers, and there have been many in past, it was an answer to something that has not yet happened.

4) My reasons for not believing in God give me enough reason to not believe in Creation of most sorts, and the theories about how aliens created the human race and put us here is complete crap. So it's either Creation or Evolution, and I pick the latter.

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
And I'm not really hesitant to discuss it, it's just that I don't like talking about it because most people who I talk to will either call me a sinner or try to convert me... or just think less of me.
I'm a pretty fundamentalist Christian... but I think no less of you for believing what you believe. I cannot call you a sinner, for that is a label for God to apply, not humans. I can see why you'd dislike it when people try to convert you... it would annoy the heck out me as well if people presumed they knew what was best for me. All I can do is encourage you to keep thinking/reflecting upon matters of "what do I believe?"


It just adds another difference to the "discrimination table" or whatever.
That's very true -- it's another difference -- but I'm not entirely sure that a difference has to lead to discrimination. That does happen quite often, however, and in matters of religion, even more often. It's one of the sad realities of an imperfect world. What I can say is that defining where you place your faith does not have to separate you from anyone -- and shouldn't cause people to separate for you; in fact, realizing what you truly believe binds all peoples together in understanding... if that makes sense.


What I meant to say earlier is that I don't agree with the idea that God can influence almost anything that happens to me. It's one of those He-can-end-the-world-if-he-wants-to kind of things, and I really don't agree with that.
...and God did end the world once... The Flood. But he hated that he had to do that... and promised never to destroy his creation again. And there's no reason to -- Jesus has purified the world of its sins (which invited the Flood in the first place).


Besides, if God has ever granted - or even heard - a single one of my prayers, and there have been many in past, it was an answer to something that has not yet happened.
I can relate here. I'm not a big person on praying, much less in public or anything like that... I don't even bother to pray for anything... mostly I just thank God for things. In other words, I believe first that God has made me and the world full of potential... and the realization of my full potential shouldn't need too much divine intervention. So in other words, I don't really put too much faith in God's "answers" -- because often he has things the way he wants already, and it's for the better even if it doesn't seem so at the moment... or even years in the future.


My reasons for not believing in God give me enough reason to not believe in Creation of most sorts, and the theories about how aliens created the human race and put us here is complete crap. So it's either Creation or Evolution, and I pick the latter.
I'll leave this debate for another day... mainly because, unlike many atheists (and here I think is the difference, as you claim you don't like to be called or classed with "atheists"), you believe in Evolution because you don't believe in God, rather than like many atheists, not believing in God because of Evolution.

I have the utmost respect for ya, Prince Simba.... don't take anything above too seriously! :cheese:

[Prince Simba]

^ Well, it was easy to connect with the first paragraph. That's a bit of what I'm doing right now. "Who am I?" and "What do I believe" are common questions I ask myself.

[lion_roog]

Interesting points. religion does not lead to discrimination...people are the sole cause for discrimination and the downfall of societies.

I believe that both evolution and creation are both true. Our bodies were designed to change, and evolution is just animals changing to adapt to their enviroments. On the thing about answering prayers, God isn't going to help you if you fail to believe he will help you. God gave us all a blue print, called the subconscious mind, and with that you can do anything. Anyone can accomplish anything. Everything you see, hear, do, ect affects your subconscious mind, so make sure you feed it things that wont have a bad affect on it. "If it's to be, it's up to me"....Have you ever noticed that bad things tend to happen to people with a negative attitude, and good things happen to people with a good attitude?

[StalkingWolf]

WOW!! lots of thinking going on here!!!:hmm: Question to both Prince Simba and Darkslash! Do you believe in the Bible?? (The only completely true book in this world, meaning everything in it has happened or is to happen, and all of it is truth!!!) And, do you read the Bible often???

[StalkingWolf]

hey nafklt, in answer to your question, satan has several different names, as well as God does too! I don't know if you already knew this or not but, Satan before he became "the devil" was actually and angel of God's, his name was "Lucifer" The bible has a description of him and he was said to be a very beautiful angel, until his pride got a hold of him and he thought that he could be better than God, after that happened God banished him from his kingdom, and that is when he became i guess you could say bitter towards God! that is when he decided to try and make people trust in him rather in God, and he has succeeded with many people in this world to lure them away from God!

[unregistered user]

SW, I hate to say this, and please don't take it the wrong way or anything like that. But anyone can read the Bible.

What matters is properly understanding and interpreting it ;)

[Simba '04]

and having Faith ;)

[lion_roog]

From what I've heard from people who read the Bible in it's original language, is that the Bible that is translated to English is quite different in certian parts....mainly from difficulties translating some words and such.....:D

[unregistered user]

Indeed '04.

Yes lion_roog, but the new king james version of the bible is the most accurate Bible we have to date. Peices of the old testament were uncovered, sad part is, is that no one is really allowed to see the ancient texts due to religious sacredness.. only a little bit at a time.

[lion_roog]

Something that confuses me is why the Bible is against homosexuals when homosexuals don't really get a say in whether or not they're homosexuals, they're born that way the same way as heterosexuals are born heterosexual.

[Simba '04]

God gave men women for a very good reason ;)

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Simba '04
God gave men women for a very good reason ;)

Then why are people born gay?:cheese:

[Simba '04]

you can't be born gay, everyone is given the freedom to choose who they want to be and some just happen to choose the same sex for some odd reason :confused:

[StalkingWolf]

Ravoc I wasn't saying that....i know anyone can read the Bible and yes it is a matter of understanding it, I agree, but it also has to be a continual thing! My question would more be i guess how much of the Bible do you know? Because to really understand the Bible you must have knowledge of it first, which means actually taking the time to sit down and read it often! I believe that the King James Version is the original writing of the Bible! I guess my point was, i read the Bible often, and memorize scripture and I believe that it is 100% truth, and many of the things you said and a few others, I could take you to a verse and show you what the Bible says about that! Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying I am a miss goody goody, but I have studied the scriptures with my family since i was little, and I have memorized a lot of scripture also, which has come to help me through my life often! I am a sinner and i don't deny that, the Bible says...."For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD!!!" that I do not deny, i believe everybody has sinned as a cause of Eve! She commited the first sin which like Darkslash said doomed us to hell, unless we except Christ as our Saviour!That is only the beginning though!

[StalkingWolf]

lion_roog, Simba '04 is right, you cannot be born gay, no one is, that is a free-will choice, like you said God gave us freedom of choice, and those who are homo, heterosexual, etc. have chosen that way of life! However, the Bible says, God created woman for man, and that there was to be a union between them! It never says anywhere in the Bible that man was created for man, or woman for woman, and if it does and you can find it, PLEASE enlighten me, cause I don't believe in that one bit!

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Simba '04
you can't be born gay, everyone is given the freedom to choose who they want to be and some just happen to choose the same sex for some odd reason :confused:

It's been proven that most people are gay for a reason that has to do with their genetics.

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
^ Well, it was easy to connect with the first paragraph. That's a bit of what I'm doing right now. "Who am I?" and "What do I believe" are common questions I ask myself.
It's a good thing to do... and enjoyable sorta. :D

[StalkingWolf]

sorry roog, I don't believe that one bit, there is no way you can be born gay, not even if it is based on genes, that is simply a choice! I mean think about it, a baby pops out and says "waaaa, I'm gay, did ya know that!" I don't think so! they would not know that until later on, and that means that it obviously had to be a choice that they make that they are gay, later on when they even understand what that means!!"

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by lion_roog
It's been proven that most people are gay for a reason that has to do with their genetics.
If that's true... then wouldn't evolution have "naturally selected" that gene for mutation... because it is not productive for the survival of the species (or the continuation of the genes of that particular person)?

[Simba '04]

Originally posted by Darkslash
If that's true... then wouldn't evolution have "naturally selected" that gene for mutation... because it is not productive for the survival of the species (or the continuation of the genes of that particular person)?

BAM!!!

:lol: very good point ;), there is no way you can be genetically born gay, not possible, genetics has nothing to do with the way you grow up thinking wise at least.

[lion_roog]

Hmmm...I've been doing a little bit of reading about it, and I will say that I was wrong....there is a theory that homosexuality maybe a genetically caused trait, but it is not proven (this type of research is fairly new to scientists as well as Genetics in general).

But I don't believe you can simply decide to be gay or bisexual. Some people may have been tramatized earlier in life, ie. molested as a child, or they are just attracted to the opposite sex. And what about people who are born both genders?....forgot the word they have for that.

[StalkingWolf]

yes I agree, very good point Darkslash!!!;)
BTW, Did you ever see my question to you?

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Because to really understand the Bible you must have knowledge of it first, which means actually taking the time to sit down and read it often!

I agree. And it's the lack of knowledge and/or the disregard for certian parts of the Bible (and other Holy books such as the Quran and Torah) that lead people to follow radicals and extremists. Religion is powerful, and some people just like to take advantage for personal gain.

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by lion_roog
It's been proven that most people are gay for a reason that has to do with their genetics. I don't think that anything has been proven yet...

But what I don't get is if somebody wants to be gay, then why shouldn't they be able to be?

[unregistered user]

People are allowed to be gay, it's their choice, their free will. But it's not morally exceptable according to most religious, as well as political, groups.

And Darkslash, very good point. If the whole gene thing was true and if evolution is true, then the gene would've been taken out. The theory of natural selection says so anyway ;)

Btw, I just want to point out (no offense at all to ya roog, okay? Just had to say this), the word 'prove' and 'science' were used together. To be honest, science, all of it, is a theory. Every bit of science is just a bunch of theories. Everything that science has said can and mos tlikely will be changed later. For instance, they said an atom was the smallest, then found protons and neutrons inside it. And they started at first to say that there were only two kingdoms of life on earth, there are now considered six. Science is an ever changing process, nothing is set in stone that is in a science book. (Again, no offense to ya roog ^^)

[lion_roog]

I especially hate the theory about gravity......:D ....Apparently it applies to evrything except for Michael Jordan....:D

:haha:...I guess you can say...Science is always evolving.....:D

I view science as a way of exploring our world, God gave us great minds and with those minds we are able to discover great things.:cheese:

[Inuchance]

Yikes, this thread definitely grew since I last read it...

Anyway, the Bible is not exactly the word of God... It was still transcribed by humans, and so many parts of the bible show human bias. For one, the Bible has some pretty strong emphasis on the approval of slavery... :eww:

As for homosexuality, if it is a choice, it's certainly not one made at any sort of conscious level... With gays being second-rate citizens in 11 of the 50 state constitutions, and with our president pushing for a constitutional ban on gay marriage (whatever happened to separation of church and state, by the way?), it's remarkable that anyone would actually CHOOSE to be gay. :confused:

I'm not attacking the concept of God himself, but rather just the organized religions that're trying to force their viewpoints down other people's throats.

[lion_roog]

I don't know, Inuchance, some people may like being murdered based on their sexual preference....

[nafklt]

If someone was mentally ill, did they have a choice? Or was it bad genes from mommy and/or daddy? :confused:

[Inuchance]

Originally posted by nafklt
If someone was mentally ill, did they have a choice? Or was it bad genes from mommy and/or daddy? :confused:

I dunno, but if you hang around the thrift shop looking sad long enough, someone might buy you a new pair of pants. :cheese:

[nafklt]

Originally posted by Inuchance
I dunno, but if you hang around the thrift shop looking sad long enough, someone might buy you a new pair of pants. :cheese:

No no, I meant if someone had some severe brain damage because his/her's dad was an alcoholic or smoker, did that person have a choice to have those brain injuries or was that choice chosen by their parents? ;)

[lion_roog]

My Dad was mentally ill....and he didn't pass anything down to me....:D....We both were crazy for various reasons....ofcoarse, I'm still crazy and he's dead...so I must carry on the crazyness and pass it on to my sons.....:D

[nafklt]

Originally posted by lion_roog
My Dad was mentally ill....and he didn't pass anything down to me....:D....We both were crazy for various reasons....ofcoarse, I'm still crazy and he's dead...so I must carry on the crazyness and pass it on to my sons.....:D

Maybe not to you but have you thought of your future kids...? :P

Diabetes skips a generation when passed through genes Dad-> Grandson...etc.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by nafklt
Maybe not to you but have you thought of your future kids...? :P

Diabetes skips a generation when passed through genes Dad-> Grandson...etc.

Hmmm....Well he was Bi-Polar and was a little schyzophrenic.....and he had a temper, not towards anyone he loved, but to people he didn't like....and he liked to hurt people he didn't like....I don't know if he had other mental illnesses, though....:cheese:

[Inuchance]

Wow... Can you believe I haven't actually voted yet? :bleen:

[nafklt]

The Authorized King James version of the Bible was translated from Greek and Hebrew by some 93 of England's best scholars during the reign of King James I of England in 1611, or so if I remember...:confused:

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by Inuchance

As for homosexuality, if it is a choice, it's certainly not one made at any sort of conscious level... With gays being second-rate citizens in 11 of the 50 state constitutions, and with our president pushing for a constitutional ban on gay marriage (whatever happened to separation of church and state, by the way?), it's remarkable that anyone would actually CHOOSE to be gay. :confused:

Just to make a little note on that, "separation of church and state" is a myth. It is not actually spoken of anywhere in the constitution of the US, so Bush can technically do anything he wants to.

Personally, I've got no real problem with it except for the fact that gays can call it marriage. It isn't.

mar?riage ('mar-ij) n
1 : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a legal, consensual, and contractual relationship recognized and sanctioned by and dissolvable only by law

I think that "gay marriage" takes away from the sanctity of a traditional marriage (between a man and woman). Sure, they should still be able to do it, but do it some other way and call it something else.

[Nephilim]

Eh, I realise that this might be a little late for me to just jump into the thread, but oh well.



Originally posted by lion_roog
Something that confuses me is why the Bible is against homosexuals

Hmm, this comes up a lot in religions debates, ne? I was reading something on the same matter (homosexual erotica in the anime fandom, if you must know =P) and found this essay written by a Christian. I just took the relevant parts;

The story of Sodom does not condemn homosexuality; it condemns violence towards strangers, inhospitality and the attempted gang-rape of angels.

The related text in Jude about 'going after strange flesh' refers to sex between humans and angels. (If you remember, sex between human women and angels had created the race of giants, and that also was seen as a very bad thing.)

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 condemns lying with a man as with a woman as 'an abomination'. Abomination is an unfortunate translation for the Hebrew word, which means 'something which is unclean under the Purity Law.' Like eating shellfish, or touching a dead pig, it made a person ritually unclean. Since, under Grace, Christians have been released from the requirements of the Law, this does not apply to us.

Romans 1:19-32 equally refers to homosexuality as 'unclean' *not* as a sin. Paul's gist in this passage is that Gentile Idolatry lead to ritual uncleanness *and* it lead to real sin (such as envy, murder, strife, deceit etc). Paul then goes on to attack the notion that anything is unclean, and to maintain that it is only real sin which matters. In saying this, he actually places homosexuality in the category of 'things which are OK for Christians - like eating non kosher food.'

1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 are difficult to interpret because the greek words used are uncommon, and modern scholarship isn't entirely sure what they mean. But the consensus seems to be that they condemn male prostitutes (or just men who are lazy and self-obsessed) and men who prey sexually on other men, using power or money to force others to have sex with them. (Possibly they may be the clients of the prostitutes...but no one really knows.)

To assume that this is a blanket condemnation of gays is the same as assuming that a condemnation of pimps is a condemnation of all heterosexual sex.



StalkingWolf
sorry roog, I don't believe that one bit, there is no way you can be born gay, not even if it is based on genes, that is simply a choice! I mean think about it, a baby pops out and says "waaaa, I'm gay, did ya know that!" I don't think so! they would not know that until later on, and that means that it obviously had to be a choice that they make that they are gay, later on when they even understand what that means!!"

In the same way that you cannot choose to be het when you are born. It's simply that het is what is most socially accepted, and so thought of as norm. People assume they're straight until they learn otherwise, that's all. The only reason that people don't understand what it is at a young age is because it's something that is usually hushed around them.

So yes, being homosexual is a "choice" in the same way that being heterosexual is a "choice".


Inuchance
As for homosexuality, if it is a choice, it's certainly not one made at any sort of conscious level... With gays being second-rate citizens in 11 of the 50 state constitutions, and with our president pushing for a constitutional ban on gay marriage (whatever happened to separation of church and state, by the way?), it's remarkable that anyone would actually CHOOSE to be gay.

I agree. "Gay" seems to be the new insult for any purpose, like "deleted" used to be used. Hmm, I guess it will become unacceptable over time, but not any time soon.

There seems to be a great misunderstanding and steorotyping of gay people too; any one who is gay is attracted to everyone of their own gender, and are all sexual predators. Oh, and let's not forget that we're all camp too!

People are beaten around here for being gay, and that's no choice that you want to make.

Oh, but more to the point.

Religion.

I, myself, am not religious in anyway at all. I don't like the idea of anything telling me how and what to think; I have my own mind and can make moral decision on my own, thank you.

The Bible has too many errors in for me to ever consider Christianity, and what the Roman Catholics are doing in Africa at the moment is just disgusting. The Qur'an and Torah are other matters. While I am not that familiar with the Torah, I know a Hell of a lot about the Qur'an, but neither seem to float with me. The same with the other major religions.

However, if one of them is the truth, well then I'm already on my way to Hell. *shrugs*

[Juniper]

Some liberal Christian groups accept homosexuality, fundamentalist groups don't, and mainline groups are slicing down the middle on the whole issue.

Theoretically, smoking is a sin, as is eating at McDonalds, because both are harming your body, which is a metaphorical "Temple of God". An obsession with The Lion King can be sinful because it can sometimes be considered Idolatry. Every sin is equally hideous to God.

Christianity isn't about worrying about every little sin and what is a sin and what isn't, a century ago people were using the Bible to prove that interracial marriages were an abomination to God. People have been playing that little game for thousands of years. I'd say every person on Earth falls into at least one category of habitual sin that they may or may not realize. That's the reason Jesus died for us, to wash away our sins; thus the "scorecard" that people keep of sins should end. There's no true way of knowing exactly what is considered a sin because so many people have warped the interpretation of the Bible to fit what they want it to be. For instance, the Old Testament scripture talking about how Sodom was destroyed because of the people's homosexuality was originally interpreted as meaning not "homosexuality" but "rape or sexual indecency". Then it was interpreted as "homosexuality" and now some people are starting to interpret it as "rape or sexual indecency" again. The same can be said (in different context) about Romans and Corinthians. I truly don't know if homosexuality is a sin, frankly, I don't care, I think there's more important things to worry about when it comes to your faith.

What I see as more of a sin (if homosexual behavior is a sin) is how the vast (not anyone here that I know of) majority of Christians handle it. They claim the logic behind tormenting homosexual people as being acceptable because they think the act is against God. Now, I'm not a biblical expert, but I think that God looks down upon the mental and physical abuse of another person. People who do that give Christians a bad name and I'm sure that being mean to a person in the name of Christianity isn't going to make them enthusiastic about becoming one or staying one.

Call me liberal, but I follow the overall meaning of the Bible before anything else. I believe that you should trust Jesus with the forgiveness of your sins, love your neighbor and fellow man (man meaning mankind, not male), don't judge others, and follow the 10 Commandments to the best of your ability; in that general order. You aren't ever going to be completely sure whether evolution is true, homosexuality is a sin, if women are equal to men, if Adam and Eve were real or if they were metaphors, etc... until you ask God yourself in Heaven. Seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that sometimes people worry more about the little details when they plenty to keep them busy worrying about the more important things, and that's where hypocrisy starts.

Well, feel free to rip on anything I said, religious debates are always dangerous topics on boards with a vast difference of people.

*Edit* Um... yeah, guess Neph beat me to it. I agree with her on the first half.:)

[unregistered user]

Hmm... very interesting theories you have Neph, I'll have to look mor einto those passages.

pntbll also has really good points. No one, I repeat, no one, should ever be persecuted by a christian, or the church. It goes against everything the New Testament says.

Also, someone mentioned slavery, I think it was Inuchance. First you must understand the time period of which the Bible was being written and what was going on. Back then slaves were 100% okay, no one thought badly of it. God condemned the slavery in Eygpt though. And after they were freed, God gave certain rules to all of the people, including the slaves. All of which needed to be treated a certain way.

[unregistered user]

Chrrrristian

[Nephilim]

Hmm, another thought; isn't it that God hates sin, not sinners?

[Lion King Stu]

i think so :confused:

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Hmm, another thought; isn't it that God hates sin, not sinners?
That's true. Since everyone sins, he can't hate everyone he created. But I believe that it is every Christian's duty to avoid sinning to the best of their ability, because to do less is to show one's insincerity of belief.

[lion_roog]

I like the points you make, Neph. I never really studied those parts of the Bible as much as others. To me, the most important parts of the Bible seem to be the first four books of the New Testament.

I like the points you make, Pntbll. My view of a sin is anything you believe is a sin is a sin. I forgot where in the Bible is says that you are judged based on your conscience because youconsciously know what is a sin and what isn't a sin...so people who do not know they are sinning are not actually sinning.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
lion_roog, Simba '04 is right, you cannot be born gay, no one is, that is a free-will choice, like you said God gave us freedom of choice, and those who are homo, heterosexual, etc. have chosen that way of life! However, the Bible says, God created woman for man, and that there was to be a union between them! It never says anywhere in the Bible that man was created for man, or woman for woman, and if it does and you can find it, PLEASE enlighten me, cause I don't believe in that one bit!

I just noticed this post.

I'd watch what I say, there's people on this forum you wouldn't think were homosexual or bisexual and I'm sure that would be taken offensively.

[StalkingWolf]

well if anyone is offended by that, sorry! But until someone can prove it otherwise and show me somewhere in the Bible where it says that is ok, then I will think twice, only problem is its not there, so my opinion still stays!!!!

[Juniper]

As does mine

Maybe you should ask a homosexual or bisexual person sometime their opinion on whether you're born like that or if it's a choice.

Regardless, it's a non-issue to me. There's as many different forms of christianity as there are people who follow it. Some groups see homosexuality as ok, some don't, some don't know, and some don't care. There's some who think homosexual people should be beaten, tortured, and hanged (Christian Reformists International) and some factions which are almost entirely homosexual or bisexual (Metropolin Community Church www.jesus.com). There's one thing that unites all of them, and that's the fact that they follow Christ. If only one group is right and if that means only one group can attain salvation, then it's a guessing game and not the grace of God. I think God casts his net a bit wider than we as humans do.

[Inuchance]

Originally posted by pntbll248
Maybe you should ask a homosexual or bisexual person sometime their opinion on whether you're born like that or if it's a choice.

Like me?


Originally posted by StalkingWolf
sorry roog, I don't believe that one bit, there is no way you can be born gay, not even if it is based on genes, that is simply a choice! I mean think about it, a baby pops out and says "waaaa, I'm gay, did ya know that!" I don't think so! they would not know that until later on, and that means that it obviously had to be a choice that they make that they are gay, later on when they even understand what that means!!"

Choosing your sexual orientation isn't like choosing your friends. It's not like one ever sits down and says, "Will I find this person/gender attractive?" Sure, a decision on which gender to go with has to be made at one point, and it's entirely possible that a gay person could be involved in a heterosexual relationship, but overall, no one ever 'chooses' to be gay.

And, a baby doesn't have any sexual urges for the longest time. The realization of being gay happens around puberty, when you begin to see things somewhat differently and begin making choices based on your own preferences, rather than choosing what best fits in with society. It's never a "hey, I think I'll be gay!" type of thing, it's more of a "Everyone says I should be looking at this gender, but I instead catch myself looking at the other gender instead."


Originally posted by StalkingWolf
well if anyone is offended by that, sorry! But until someone can prove it otherwise and show me somewhere in the Bible where it says that is ok, then I will think twice, only problem is its not there, so my opinion still stays!!!!

Remember that God himself did not come down from Heaven and write the Bible. The Book is still human-interpretation of His word, and it shows. I think it is foolish to make decisions based on a single text, and even moreso to write legislation over it.

While you may personally choose not to participate in it (and, not being attracted to those of the same gender, it's very easy for you to do so), these sorts of mindsets can cause trouble when you begin enforcing those beliefs on others by, for example, voting for a state amendment banning gay marriage. I think the decision to get married should be between the couple wishing to get married, not between a couple and the law.

The way the US government was designed was for people to be as free as possible, without infringing upon the rights of others. The constitution was designed to preserve freedoms for the people, not restrict them. How does a gay couple getting married infringe upon anyone's rights?

People are screaming about the sanctity of marriage over this issue, but have nothing to say over the increasing divorce rates. Renaming gay marriage to something like "civil unions" are equitable to the separate water fountains they used to have for black and white people. Even though they're essentially the same, and both serve the same purpose, for one to be named differently creates a feeling of inadequacy and separates the two groups into separate classes; it discriminates between the two. To do something like that would be unconstitutional.

I don't see why it's okay for discrimination of one group to be socially acceptable just because the dominant religion in that region says it's okay.

[unregistered user]

Offtopic... well... not offtopic... well... whatever. Back to the main topic: What's my religion?

Jedi :p

Catholic

OK, you may continue your discussion.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Inuchance
I don't see why it's okay for discrimination of one group to be socially acceptable just because the dominant religion in that region says it's okay.

Christianity has been hijacked by the ignorance of society. They worry about traditions and human laws and not love, peace, and loving God. The ceremonial cleanliness laws have past away, Jesus summed up the old testament law in three words: "Love thy neighbor".

No group of people should ever be denied access to a religion for any reason. God says he loves everyone, not just straight causasian males.

If it's any help, I don't discriminate against homosexual or bisexual people. :)

[unregistered user]

Inuchance, I have nothing against homosexuals, as I've said before, I don't believe they're doing the right thing though (Ugh, horrible way to phrase it but you understand I hope).

I still don't think you should call it marriage though, marriage is defined and accepted by practically everyone as a man and a woman bondin in holy matrimony.

Yes, sadly divorces have and are still increasing. The reason for that, I believe, is because so many people rush into a marriage way before they ever truely know the person. Love takes time. If you're going to marry someone, make sure that you both know each others enitre list of pros and cons. You shouldn't keep secrets frome ach other, otherwise their is no trust, and without trust their is no love, and without love, their is no marriage.

:hugs: Inuchance. I hope that nothing I or anyone else said has offended you, I'm sure that no one on here has meant to, I know I haven't if I have. We all have different beliefs and views of things. It's interesting to talk about them to each other, but we must remember to not become judgemental or accusing, that goes for all of us :cheese:

*sings 'Come on people Now.." * :cheese: ;)

[unregistered user]

I dunno if it's been said but the "non-Religion/Atheist" has to go...

I don't assosciate myself with any of the listed reliegions, but I'm NOT an atheist either.

I'm more of a pagan/wiccan/new age type. I've basically made my own religion by mixing a few up, like a couple beliefs from Hindu, Buddhism, Shintoism, you know? So I'm in practically none of the categories.

On that note, I'm also hoping this thread doesn't start an all out flame war. Usually religion based threads cause stuff like that with opposing opions and stuff.

That's just my 2 cents though.

[unregistered user]

Do you have an actual religion TZ or do you just accept certain ideals and pricipals from all of those?

And what do you mean by Atheist has to go? Do you mean that you don't want Athiests here or...?

Personally I think their should be an 'Other' option up there for people that are other religions besides the major ones. And not all the major ones are up there even, like Hinduism.

[la_reina]

Hey--
Just some questions about Christianity.
I'm confused here--how is it that Christians can follow the Bible if it's always changing? I mean, c'mon no offense, but isn't that how a lot of young Christian people get confused? My sister has a friend whose grandfather was a Christian minister, and despite that, or maybe IN SPITE of that, she's really perplexed about this religion. In fact, according to my sister, the girl doesn't even like being Christian because its so puzzling.

And another thing, if Jesus is the son of God, who is his father? Is he supposed to be like the supreme god or something? And is the Virgin Mary another god, or what? And who's the holy ghost? Is that another god???? I'd just like somone here who's Christian to answer my questions. Please do not take this as an insult because I am in no way trying to insult anybody. I'm just VERY curious. Thank you!

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by la_reina
And another thing, if Jesus is the son of God, who is his father? Is he supposed to be like the supreme god or something? And is the Virgin Mary another god, or what? And who's the holy ghost? Is that another god???? I'd just like somone here who's Christian to answer my questions. Please do not take this as an insult because I am in no way trying to insult anybody. I'm just VERY curious. Thank you!

I'm not a Christian, but...

God was Jesus' father, so to speak. The Virgin Mary was not a god of any sort, just a normal human woman. She was a "vessel" of sorts to carry Jesus.

A big part of Christianity is the Holy Trinity. This is the concept of one god being viewed in three ways:

The Father (God)
The Son (Jesus; God in human form)
The Holy Ghost/Spirit

The Holy Ghost is the spirit of God which is everywhere at any given time. It sees and knows all, it's in everyone.

It's important to remember that the Holy Trinity is not three seperate gods, but one God.

Mm, did that answer your question?

[Juniper]

Originally posted by la_reina
Hey--
Just some questions about Christianity.
I'm confused here--how is it that Christians can follow the Bible if it's always changing? I mean, c'mon no offense, but isn't that how a lot of young Christian people get confused? My sister has a friend whose grandfather was a Christian minister, and despite that, or maybe IN SPITE of that, she's really perplexed about this religion. In fact, according to my sister, the girl doesn't even like being Christian because its so puzzling.

And another thing, if Jesus is the son of God, who is his father? Is he supposed to be like the supreme god or something? And is the Virgin Mary another god, or what? And who's the holy ghost? Is that another god???? I'd just like somone here who's Christian to answer my questions. Please do not take this as an insult because I am in no way trying to insult anybody. I'm just VERY curious. Thank you!


About the Bible changing, the Bible itself does not change but how we interpret it does. A thousand years ago, women were the property of men. As time went on, there was a change in interpretation and now women are viewed as equal to men (as they rightfully should be). One hundred fifty years ago everyone thought seven twenty-four hour day creation was the only possibility that God used to create the Earth and life. Now some Christians are theological evolutionists, as is one official stance of the Roman Catholic church as issued by the Pope himself, and believe that God may have used evolution as a medium to create different forms of animals and possibly man. One hundred years ago the Bible was interpretted as saying that interracial marriage was wrong and slavery was condoned by God. Needless to say, that viewpoint has changed too. Now, homosexual, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people are seen as automatically damned to Hell, but even now that interpretation is starting to change.

Sometimes interpretation is based on science, sometimes on historical knowledge, sometimes on moral issues or culture, and sometimes just on what a person believes. Like I said before, there are many interpretations of the Bible and sadly many times it's used solely as a weapon. It isn't a matter of the little details like evolution, interracial marriage, women's rights, or person's sexuality, but that a person loves Christ and follows him to best of their ability. The main themes of the New Testament are love, purity, and following Christ. What you consider these themes to mean are between you and God, but in the end I think things will work out.

As for Jesus being the Son of God, "Son" isn't used to describe a paternal relationship between God and Jesus. Jesus and God are one, Christianity is not considered to be polytheistic. A word never used in the Bible is used now to describe God is trinity. Now, I'm not sure how to explain it, I'm only going on the best of my knowledge, but basically the trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are three forms or faces of God. The Father is God in the creator sense, Jesus is God in the Salvation sense, and Holy Spirit is God in the guidance sense. Jesus said himself that Him and God are one, the same thing. Some people get confused when they see a few places in the Bible where Jesus prays to God or says He is a servant of God. This is generally accepted as not beng a contradiction but Jesus showing his disciples, and mankind, how to act (Hence the interpretation issue again)

*edit* Darn you Neph, you beat me to it again. :grrr: :p :D

[unregistered user]

I don't have an actual religion although I 'classify' myself as Pagan/Wiccan.

And as for the Athiesm has to go, I was meaning that the option should just be 'Other'.

I have nothing against other religions. In fact, sometimes I'll listen to what other have to say about their reliegion as long as they're not like 'join our religion now or burn in hell!' type of thing. I try to keep an open mind to others and their beliefs (that's how I adopted some of the beliefs).

[Inuchance]

Originally posted by Ravoc
I still don't think you should call it marriage though, marriage is defined and accepted by practically everyone as a man and a woman bondin in holy matrimony.

Well, once gays can actually get civil unions, we can begin worrying about semantics.


Originally posted by Thandi Zakiya
I dunno if it's been said but the "non-Religion/Atheist" has to go...

I don't assosciate myself with any of the listed reliegions, but I'm NOT an atheist either.


Yeah, I went with atheist (disbelieve in God), even though I'm really more agnostic (don't hold any firm beliefs in any direction).

[la_reina]

Okay, thanks Neph. Your reply partly answered my questions. I mean, I just think that if there's one god in Christianity, then he shouldn't be divided into three, I mean, that must be why a lot of people are confused. In Islam, there's one God and one God only. That's it. No questions about it. He has no son, no partners. We Muslims believe He created everything Himself, with no help from ANYONE. I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm insulting everyone here who's not Muslim.

Oh, and was that you who asked, ''Doesn't God hate sins but not sinners?'' I agree. In Islam, God punishes those who sin intentionally and not repent for it. But if someone does commit a sin, and pray to God for mercy, then God will forgive that person. We Muslims also believe in Paradise, Hell, and The Last Day.

[Kintaru]

Well I guess to someone who's not Christian it could be quite confusing. And to truely explain the concept would take a lot of writing.

The Holy Tridium has gotta be one of the most confusing and abstract ideas in that sect of religions, when I have more time I'll try to explain it, but I can't think of how to put it at the moment.

I'm a Roman Catholic, but I'll leave you with this quote by Homer Simpson when he was asked about his religion.

"Religion huh? What's that one again with all the pointless rules? Oh yeah! Chrisitanity."

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by la_reina
Okay, thanks Neph. Your reply partly answered my questions. I mean, I just think that if there's one god in Christianity, then he shouldn't be divided into three, I mean, that must be why a lot of people are confused. In Islam, there's one God and one God only. That's it. No questions about it. He has no son, no partners. We Muslims believe He created everything Himself, with no help from ANYONE. I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm insulting everyone here who's not Muslim.



I think it would be a little easier to understand the Holy Trinity if you can relate it to something....like yourself. You are divided into three basic parts...mind, body, and spirit. ANd the Holy Trinity consists of three parts...The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost....but like you are one being, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost is also one being.

[Xinithian]

I also don't agree with the concept of Christianity because the concept of hell is really flawed.

[Azerane]

Wow, there's some really interesting conversation going on here and I'd love to read it all and comment on it but right now I really cna't be bothered :p I will be back to post something worth reading another day because I know that those of you who've actually bothered to read this would agree that it wasn't worth reading! :D :cheese:

Actually, I do have a question. What is Roman Catholic? I mean, yeah it's a religion but err... could someone explain it a bit because there seems to be quite a few Roman Catholics, well catholics anyway... is there a big difference between catholic and roman catholic?

[Inuchance]

Originally posted by Azerane
Actually, I do have a question. What is Roman Catholic? I mean, yeah it's a religion but err... could someone explain it a bit because there seems to be quite a few Roman Catholics, well catholics anyway... is there a big difference between catholic and roman catholic?

Roman Catholic is just like regular Catholic, but with more togas. :D :cheese:

Okay, maybe you're better off waiting until someone more knowledgeable on that topic wakes up. :lol:

[Azerane]

Originally posted by Inuchance
Roman Catholic is just like regular Catholic, but with more togas. :D :cheese:

Okay, maybe you're better off waiting until someone more knowledgeable on that topic wakes up. :lol:
:lol: ok, although your description was very amusing! :p :D

[Dare]

Originally posted by Azerane


Actually, I do have a question. What is Roman Catholic? I mean, yeah it's a religion but err... could someone explain it a bit because there seems to be quite a few Roman Catholics, well catholics anyway... is there a big difference between catholic and roman catholic?

I think it depends on who?s talking about what..

The word "catholic" (note the use of lower-case in the spelling) means "found everywhere" and/or "universal" . In the early days, it was used as synonym for "Christian" and also used to say that the church was open to anyone anywhere who wished to join.

After the Great Schism, the term "Catholic" (written with a capitol "C"), came to usually refer to the Roman Catholic faith....many Roman Catholics will refer to themselves as just being "Catholic" in this sense.

However, other churches refer to themselves as being "catholic" in the word's original sense...among them being the Coptic, Greek, Russian, Anglican, the Episcopal church, and some others that I'm too lazy to look up.

If anyone else knows more about this, please feel free to expand upon it. My knowledge has become somewhat dulled over the years.
:ayecapn:

[unregistered user]

Hmm.. how is the concept of Hell flawed, Xinithian? Expand on that for us perhaps?

[StalkingWolf]

Inuchance, i do not have anything against homo., or bisexuals, I do not
agree with what they do, but neither am I judging anyone! My
point was I believe in the Bible 100%, but there is more to the Bible then
you have said!

Originally posted by Inuchance
Remember that God himself did not come down from Heaven and write the Bible. The Book is still human-interpretation of His word, and it shows. [/B]

Originally posted by Inuchance
Anyway, the Bible is not exactly the word of God...
No, God did not come down to write the Bible, but he is the author
of it.In 2 Timothy 3:16-17 it says,"ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,throughly furnished unto all good works."
The word "inspiration" in this verse is translated from a compound Greek word
which means "God-breathed." God breathed out His words over a period of of about
1,500 years to approximately forty specially chosen and prepared men of God who
wrote them down to give us our Scriptures, THE WORD OF GOD!!!!
The Bible was God-breathed, meaning it was His exact words!
No, I do not believe in the actions of homo., or bisexuals, because there
is no where in scripture that you see anything that condones that! The Bible
specifically states that God made woman for man, no where does it say he made
man for man or woman for woman,and it actually says something completely opposite
of that! Once again, so you don't get upset, I am not forcing you to believe
in my religion or anything, just telling you what the Bible says about it!
It says in Lev. 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:
it is abomination! If you do not know the definition of abomination...here it is!
Abomination 1)a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable
1a)in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages)
1b) in ethical sense (of wickedness etc.)
Then, in Lev. 20:13 it says, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with
a woman, both of them have commited an abomination: they shall surely be put
to death; there blood shall be upon them." In Romans 1:18 it says, "For the wrath
of God is revealed form heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men...
for even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature."
(This refers to lesbianism)
Rom.1:26,27,32 "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burning in
their lust for one another, men with men commiting what is shameful
(refering to homosexuality)that those who practice these things are worthy of
death(Hell), and not only those who do the same but also (those) who approve of those
who practice them!"
In answer to what Nephilim has been saying,

Originally posted by Nephilim
Romans 1:19-32 equally refers to homosexuality as 'unclean' *not* as a sin. Paul's gist in this passage is that Gentile Idolatry lead to ritual uncleanness *and* it lead to real sin (such as envy, murder, strife, deceit etc). Paul then goes on to attack the notion that anything is unclean, and to maintain that it is only real sin which matters. In saying this, he actually places homosexuality in the category of 'things which are OK for Christians
First of all, a sin is a sin, there is no difference between a sin, and a real sin, they are all the same...James 2:10 says..."For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in ONE point, he is guilty of ALL!!!!" This mean that all sin is equally wrong, a little sin is just as bad as a big one in God's eyes, because God hates sin!
Anyway, back on the subject, Paul never said it was OK, for christians to
be homosexual or bi, that was not at all the interpretation of his writings!
The Bible is not ambigious in its message concerning homosexuality.

Originally posted by lion_roog
It's been proven that most people are gay for a reason that has to do with their genetics.
Homosexuality is
not new. God never calls for captal punishment, or calls anything "profane" or an
"abomination" if it is simply "genetic."(In answer to what roog said!)
When we study the passages concerning Sodom and Gomorrah, it appears homosexuality,
or sodomy, is symptomatic of a people who have willfully rejected and defiantly mock
God's laws in order to do "that which is right in their own eyes." Sodom and Gomorrah
were given as warnings...

Originally posted by Inuchance
(whatever happened to separation of church and state, by the way?)
The issue on the government, and the freedom of choice(or separation of church and state)... God created the earth so He is
in control of the government, because he was the one who put it there!!! So, God's Law
is going to be over the government's law which is a given. So if it is, then what God has to
say in His scriptures is more important than anything the government can say about anything!
So logically thinking that means, the Bible is the Law because God is law, and the Bible is
His exact words! So, think about it, what man put into the constitution was what man wanted
in there to fit his life, but God's word is more important and it goes against homosexuality
or bisexuality in a sense that it is a sin, or an "abomination."

[unregistered user]

Wise words SW, however, don't forget, be peaceful, aggression only leads to tears and resentment.

[StalkingWolf]

I am not being aggresive in anyway, just posting my belief and what the WORD OF GOD says about that, people can take it seriously or use it as something to think about, but I am not saying any of this to offend anyone whatsoever!!! The scriptures are God's words not mine, so I am quoting what God said, and what I believe, because I believe in God 100%!!! If i offend anyone I am sorry, it is not my intention, I just figured since everybody else has been able to share what they believe so far I should be able to also!

[Inuchance]

I guess it all really boils down to whether or not you believe the Bible is the unrefuted Word of God... :confused:

What you believe and what I believe vary so drastically that I don't think any amount of talking will allow us to reach any sort of agreement on this topic~.

All that I could really ask of you would be to vote against an outright ban of it, as it's the only the sort of thing that would hurt those who chose to get involved (assuming that the Bible is true), and if we're wrong, then you'll see us in Hell (from Heaven.) I've always looked at the Bible as a book for self-salvation and self-improvement, not something to force upon others.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
First of all, a sin is a sin, there is no difference between a sin, and a real sin, they are all the same...James 2:10 says..."For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in ONE point, he is guilty of ALL!!!!" This mean that all sin is equally wrong, a little sin is just as bad as a big one in God's eyes, because God hates sin!


Interesting idea you have, but in a sense, completely stupid.

For example;

I kiss a girl, thus commity a "sin" of same sex sexual relationship.

I murder and rape my family.

I highly doubt those can even be classed as "equal".

[StalkingWolf]

I do believe, without a doubt whatsoever in my mind, that the Bible is the WORD OF GOD!!!
I don't expect to be able to agree with you about certain things, but thinking about it and considering it, is another thing!!!
I am sorry Inuchance but if I was to vote on that, I would vote against it, because it goes completely against what God says in His Word, and I will not condone anything that God says is a sin!!! Once again, I am NOT forcing anything upon you, nor would I ever consider trying, but you have the choice to do what God wants, he gave everyone that opportunity, and he knew that several would reject and defy his Word (the Holy Bible) I would not want to see you in Hell, I would rather see you in Heaven with God, but that has to be a choice you make, no one else can make it for you! The Bible is not a book of self-salvation, because salvation can only be obtained through faith and belief in Jesus Christ!(Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Rom. 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom. 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Last but not least, Acts 16:31, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...") The Bible can be considered a book of self-improvement, but then again you cannot improve without the help and guidance of an all mighty God, when those words came from him in the first place! We cannot understand the scriptures if we are not right with God, and unless we really have the desire to do what is right!!!! Like I said, I do not have anything against homo., bi's, I actually have a few friends that are gay, however that does NOT mean I condone what they are doing, and they know that, and they respect me for my belief! One of them has actually gotten right with God and has been saved, and is a missionary now, but that was him who chose that, i just encouraged it, and gave him something to think about, but in the end he knew what he was doing was not acceptable to God, and chose to get things right with God, and he is married to a beautiful lady now, whom he met at church, and they are really happy together!!! It is just something to think about in the long run, what kind of a life style did God live, he was perfect, and he wants us to strive to be that way also!!! And again, this is not an attempt to shove my religion in your face and say "Believe it or die" I am not like that!!!!! I do not judge people, jut talk to them about it!!!I hope you are not offended but think about what I said, as coming from a friend!!! We are all different but that doesn't change who we can become!!!!

[StalkingWolf]

Sorry Neph, but that is not my idea or my exact words, that is God's words and what God says in the scriptures! No one sin is greater than another, it is still a sin, and just as wrong!!!! If you think it is stupid then in the same way, you are calling God stupid because that is what he said!!!!

[A-non-a-mus]

in God's eyes those two are equal There's a passage somewhere I belive in exodus... that says something around to lie is the same to murder in God's eyes... unfortunatly ... remembering passages isn't my strong point...

but I know it's in there when it talks of the ten commandments...

I however, belive as SW belives, and if you don't want to, you don't have to

[StalkingWolf]

Ok, first off ...question: What do you believe a "sin" is?? Or what does the Bible say a sin is???

[StalkingWolf]

Ok the definition of a sin: Anything that is contrary to God's Word!!!!
This is only the beginning...another question: this is a simple example... What if your parents said to you, "Don't take a cookie from the cookie jar", and you did....would you consider that a sin??

Oh, and in answer to your opinion, that is YOUR opinion, not God's! God stated his opinion when he had the Bible written!!!! The Bible is God's opinion!!!

[unregistered user]

Im an Athiest

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Ok the definition of a sin: Anything that is contrary to God's Word!!!!
This is only the beginning...another question: this is a simple example... What if your parents said to you, "Don't take a cookie from the cookie jar", and you did....would you consider that a sin??

yes,

exodus 20:12, honor your mother and father

[StalkingWolf]

Ephesians 6:1, "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right."
this is a better example, but yes God does say in the Ten Commandments, Honour thy father and thy mother!!!!

[StalkingWolf]

Ok think about this, God is the Judge, and he IS!!!! The bible says in Rom. 3:23, " For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God!!
How many do you think ALL are??? Next, its says in Rom. 6:23, "FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH; but the gift of God, is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord!!! Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where it lists sins that are punishable by death and sins that are not? If you can I will be shocked, because its NOT IN THERE!!!! Which means ALL, sin is punishable by death according to God, in otherwise proving my point no matter how little or great the sin it is still punishable by death!!!!

Oh, and one example for you, there was a couple (Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1) in the Bible who had just sold off a parcel of land and told the apostles that they gave them all the money from it, when they really didn't! What started out as a litle lie, caused God to strike them dead!!! SO like I said even a little lie is punishable by death!!!!!

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Ephesians 6:1, "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right."
this is a better example, but yes God does say in the Ten Commandments, Honour thy father and thy mother!!!!

right! ;) that is a better example... but I was just reading the ten comandment... which is why I accually was able to put up a refferance...


Originally posted by SimbaTheLion

If you went into a court and said the following, I think that the result is pretty obvious:

1) Someone took a cookie from their parents... Please arrest them, we have their address and some proof.

2) Someone just robbed a bank and stole ?3.7million. Please arrest them, we have their address and some proof.

if you went to a court, anythig, weither it's as small as a cookie, or a big as a mass murder, it's still a sin....

and a sin is a sin no matter what sin the sin is...

it's kind of like a noun.. a thing is a noun no matter what thing the thing is...

[StalkingWolf]

THANK YOU!!!!:D Got to go for now but do you have Yahoo Messenger??? If so I will catch you sometime again soon!!!

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
[B]Just because it doesn't say it's not, doesn't mean it is...

Look at it this way:

Just because the word 'wolf' doesn't have six letters, it doesn't mean it has five letters instead :confused: ...

yeah... but it DOES say that it is sin and all things wrong is sin....


Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
[B]It says 'for the wages of sin is death', what is that supposed to mean??? Death is an end product given to us at birth (I read that somewhere on this forum I think :hmm: ...)

Is the bible trying to say that because we sin, we're going to die because of it? It doesn't say because of tiny bad things like taking cookies either... Your God might want to punish us because of the COMPOUND value of all the bad things we've done in our life, although I still think it's not realistic that your God wants to kill us for something like taking a cookie...

It's refering to your soul... the second death... according to revelations, to be absent of body, is to be with the lord... now I've heard some speak of a great gathering in the sky... I've read and reread revelations... that part is still unclear to me as to what happens right after death, before the great judgement... (according to revelation...) then the non-belivers with be cast into the lord's wrath... rev 20:14 "then death and hades (satan) were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death"


Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
[B]I'm not sure what else to say to you, I know that I'm not going to change your mind, and you should know you're not going to change mine either ;) .

yeah, I know... I'm not trying to change your mind.. that's not my intent...... I'm just stating my belief.... ;)

Edit: Btw, my yahoo id is anonamus4351

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Sorry Neph, but that is not my idea or my exact words, that is God's words and what God says in the scriptures! No one sin is greater than another, it is still a sin, and just as wrong!!!! If you think it is stupid then in the same way, you are calling God stupid because that is what he said!!!!

Not trying to cause offence, but just a question;

Are all your views formed from a book, or do you ever think for yourself? I mean, using the Bible as a guide is fine and all, but I do know some people who take it too extremes.

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Not trying to cause offence, but just a question;

Are all your views formed from a book, or do you ever think for yourself? I mean, using the Bible as a guide is fine and all, but I do know some people who take it too extremes.
I can't speak for StalkingWolf, but my beliefs are not confined within a sphere of written words... they are a rock-solid foundation upon which all thought, observation, action, and reflection are based.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Sorry Neph, but that is not my idea or my exact words, that is God's words and what God says in the scriptures! No one sin is greater than another, it is still a sin, and just as wrong!!!! If you think it is stupid then in the same way, you are calling God stupid because that is what he said!!!!

In Catholicism, we believe in Venial and Mortal sin. Mortal sin is a sin that destroys the Grace in you, stuff like murdering people. Venial sin is still serious, but does not kill the Grace within you.

What's interesting is that in Matt. 19:16-21 Jesus tells the Rich Young Man to follow only 6 commandments to gain Life.

[Juniper]

I'm done explaining my case, think what you want. My advice would be to look into translation of the bible and see that different words most likely do not represent what they're portrayed to be in most english translations. Look into the story of Sodom, the Mosaic Law of Leviticus, and the words malakoi and arsenokoitai of the New Testament. But I have a feeling that you won't listen or care. So I'll give you other advice.

People need to watch what they say. Ignorance leads to hate, sadness, and sometimes self-mutilation or suicide. I'm bisexual and I'm Christian, you may think I'm damned straight to Hell but I'll take that up with God in prayer.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by pntbll248


People need to watch what they say. Ignorance leads to hate, sadness, and sometimes self-mutilation or suicide.

True...and the thing is that everyone is ignorant...

[LunarCat]

since i can find my 'Outsiders' book im going to have to remember this.........oh wait was it in 'To Kill a Mockingbird'?

well if my memory serves me right the quote went something like this....

"Sometimes a bible in the hand of one man, can be worse than a bottle of beer in another man's hand."


:confused: well it went something like that...

[Dare]

Originally posted by pntbll248
My advice would be to look into translation of the bible and see that different words most likely do not represent what they're portrayed to be in most english translations.

Kind of like the Samuel's golden hemorrhoids? To this day I remain unconvinced that that's what the original, untranslated text talks about...and if it does, apparently this god has a bizarre/cruel sense of humor.
:eek:

[Muruwa]

Wow, this topic really took off from the last time I saw it. My beliefs can be summed up in The Articles of Faith, written by Joseph Smith. Here they are:
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam?s transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon this the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul?We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

About what happens after death, I have been taught (and believe) that our spirits go to a spirit world to continue learning, until we are later reunited with our bodies in something called Ressurection. I can't find a better way to word what happens next, so I will copy what I found on lds.org
After we are resurrected we will be judged and rewarded for the things we have done in this life.
Jesus Christ taught His Apostles that in His Father?s house are ?many mansions? (John 14:2). Our loving Heavenly Father is anxious to reward all of His children according to their obedience to His commandments and their willingness to follow the Savior.
Those who do these things and are worthy to return to the presence of God and Christ become ?heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ? (Romans 8:17) of all that the Father has. They will return to live with Heavenly Father and with their families in His eternal glory.
Those who choose not to follow our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.

I realize this is very long, but I hope you read it to understand what it is I believe (at least a little bit). If you have questions about my religion, please ask, or go to www.lds.org I am not trying to make anyone believe what I do, nor do I mean to offend anyone (I'm sorry if I did).

[Darkslash]

I have a lot of respect for the LDS church. They put their beliefs into practice very well. I saw it when I lived in Utah.

[Kintaru]

I just have one little comment to make on homosexuality since it seems to be a rather important topic in this conversation. I'm not gay, but I have friends that are.

Jesus' teachings all basically center on one thing, love for others. And while it may seem wrong to some people, people in same sex relationships genuinely love each other, there's no denying that. And if love is a sin, than I might as well just throw my bible out my window, cause in such a case I'm just waisting my time and am cleary worshipping the wrong diety.

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by Ravoc
Hmm.. how is the concept of Hell flawed, Xinithian? Expand on that for us perhaps? Well, because according to Christianity, it would make no sense for a person to go to hell just because he did not know who a man was and pray in his name. If Christ sacrificed himself for ALL of our sins, then wouldn't we ALL be forgiven, regardless if you believe that he was God? And if God planned everything, then there would be reason why somebody would sin (chain reactions) and if God controlled everything then He would purposely be sending people to hell.


Originally posted by StalkingWolf
I do believe, without a doubt whatsoever in my mind, that the Bible is the WORD OF GOD!!!
I don't expect to be able to agree with you about certain things, but thinking about it and considering it, is another thing!!!
I am sorry Inuchance but if I was to vote on that, I would vote against it, because it goes completely against what God says in His Word, and I will not condone anything that God says is a sin!!! Once again, I am NOT forcing anything upon you, nor would I ever consider trying, but you have the choice to do what God wants, he gave everyone that opportunity, and he knew that several would reject and defy his Word (the Holy Bible) I would not want to see you in Hell, I would rather see you in Heaven with God, but that has to be a choice you make, no one else can make it for you! You have to respect the opinions and beliefs of others... and realize that your belief is just a BELIEF and theory, and there is no absolute truth. If you want to not do something because it's going against your religious beliefs, then that's fine... however, you should not control other peoples' lives. If gay marriage is a sin, then I believe that it should be between God and them, not you and them. Sorry if I didn't make too much sense, I can't focus too much due to a recent event.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Xinithian
Sorry if I didn't make too much sense, I can't focus too much due to a recent event.

I hope everything's okay. I'm here for ya any time you need someone, xin. :hugs:

[nafklt]

Hope ya' feel better Xinithian! ;)

[unregistered user]

God doesn't control all things though, he gave us free will, Xinithian. Could he make us do something? Yes, but he wants to know if his children love him as he does them or if they ar elike Adam and Eve were in the garden.

As for the people that have never heard the gospel at all before, I honestly don't know the answer to that one Xinithian, perhaps someone else here does.

Christ did indeed die for all of us, but we must first accept him, it's a gift. The gift of salvation must be accepted in order to work. if someone bought you a big screen tv, and told you about you, but you said "Nah." then you're not going to be able to do anything with the tv since you don't have it.

And for him planning everything, personally I believe in changeable destiny. I believe that anything in the bible didn't have to be that way, and I believe that Revelation doesn't absolutely have to happen either. there are many that don?t believe this way, but I do.

And StalkingWolf, Xinithian is right. Everything on this thread is based on faith, or in the case of Atheism, the lack there of. Not a single one of us have absolute 100% proof of any of our beliefs. Remember, your duty to God isn?t to force others to believe, but to tell them the gospel and just help them if ever they need it, to be Christ-like. And try to lighten up on the !!! Points, otherwise I?ll have to start calling you Naline.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Xinithian


You have to respect the opinions and beliefs of others... and realize that your belief is just a BELIEF and theory, and there is no absolute truth.

What she believes is truth...it's just that truth, like reality, varies from person to person. But I agree, there's no absolute truth.:cheese:

What's up, buddy? What's this recent event?

I like Mormon's....never met a kinder people than the people of Salt Lake City...and I like how family oriented the Mormon Church is.:cheese:


Well, because according to Christianity, it would make no sense for a person to go to hell just because he did not know who a man was and pray in his name. If Christ sacrificed himself for ALL of our sins, then wouldn't we ALL be forgiven, regardless if you believe that he was God? And if God planned everything, then there would be reason why somebody would sin (chain reactions) and if God controlled everything then He would purposely be sending people to hell.

I have wondered the same thing. In the Bible it says that man will be judged based on his conscience. So if you believed in no God, and truly believed that, then you cannot be condemned for it.

God gave us all free will. In my belief, when someone murders someone else, that deviates from God's plan....so it has a ripple effect to get the plan back on track. But since things like that happen all the time, we live in the world we do today.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Ravoc


And for him planning everything, personally I believe in changeable destiny. I believe that anything in the bible didn't have to be that way, and I believe that Revelation doesn't absolutely have to happen either. there are many that don?t believe this way, but I do.

That reminds me of something someone said. I forgot who it was, but he said that revelations don't have to happen, that if people pray and work hard for this world to be a better place, we can change the destiny of mankind. And on that note, a letter was written sometime ago to the Pope, in the letter world events were listed. The letter was written some time ago but it listed recent world events. And events that have yet to happen. That's all that would be made known of the letter, the Pope could only cry after reading the letter. I'll look into it more, because I'm not too sure on my facts.

[Juniper]

Roog, you double posted, you're going to Hell. :p

Just kidding, wanted to liven the mood a bit.

[unregistered user]

:lol: *:hugs: pntbll*

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by pntbll248
Roog, you double posted, you're going to Hell. :p

Just kidding, wanted to liven the mood a bit.

:haha:...I'm on the Highway to Hell!!!!...The Highway to Hell!!!!....Come on everybody, Alice Cooper is great!.....:D

[Ngatuny]

Originally posted by lion_roog
:haha:...I'm on the Highway to Hell!!!!...The Highway to Hell!!!!....Come on everybody, Alice Cooper is great!.....:D

Highway to Hell isn't by Alice Cooper.:confused:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Ngatuny
Highway to Hell isn't by Alice Cooper.:confused:

In my mind it is....along with every song ever made.......:D

[unregistered user]

*smacks Roog with the stick for saying it was ALice Cooper, and smacks Ngatuny witht he stick just for the heck of it*

[unregistered user]

:lol::p It's about time we had some comic relief in here.;)

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Ravoc
*smacks Roog with the stick for saying it was ALice Cooper, and smacks Ngatuny witht he stick just for the heck of it*

:haha:....Have you heard "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" and "Yesterday"?....Those are my two favorite Alice Cooper songs....didn't really care for his song "Cop Killer", though......:D

[StalkingWolf]

Well, to those who keep on fussing at me for what I said, I was not forcing my religion upon anyone, and I do respect the beliefs of other people thank you! I may as well just get off this thread, because like everyone else I was just sharing my beliefs, but obviously mine seems to be making people upset even though I said several times that I was not saying this to offend anyone or make anyone believe in my religion(I am not forcing anything upon anyone, so it doesn't seem very fair for you to be accusing me of that!), not that I even can. I was not intentionally trying to offend anyone, and those that I did forgive me! I DO NOT however, agree with you that there is no absolute truth, because if there wasn't how would people know what to base their life upon, they have to base it upon something they believe to be truth! I do also believe that the Bible is God's unfallible WORD, and that is where you can find an answer to anything you need in life! That is what I believe and the issue of the 'for the wages of sin is death' I can't make it any clearer than that, because that is what God said, but he also said that he would make a way for escape from that punishment if people chose it...(the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ) Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone, was not my intention at all. I am not condemning anyone to hell, because I am not in power to do that, only God is! I am just a messenger for him, all christians are considered messengers of God, but you must KNOW him and HIS WORD(the Bible)before you can consider yourself worthy to speak boldly in His name. God said in Matt. 16:15, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." I am doing what God said in the Bible, not forcing ANYTHING upon ANYONE!!!!! Yes, I do base my life on the Bible because like I said, I believe it is God's unfallible Word, and I need nothing else to guide me if I have God's exact words already! That is the TRUTH I believe in, and nothing can change that, not even destiny.....

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Well, to those who keep on fussing at me for what I said, I was not forcing my religion upon anyone, and I do respect the beliefs of other people thank you! I may as well just get off this thread, because like everyone else I was just sharing my beliefs, but obviously mine seems to be making people upset even though I said several times that I was not saying this to offend anyone or make anyone believe in my religion(I am not forcing anything upon anyone, so it doesn't seem very fair for you to be accusing me of that!), not that I even can. It's not that you're forcing your beliefs upon everybody else, it's that in this debate there is no absolute truth and you have to be willing to hear and accept all ideas. Whether or not you believe it is absolute truth is up to you, but for this debate there is no absolute truth. You can't just say that only the Bible is "God's word", because that's all in your opinion and beliefs and is not proven (it also applies to other religions... keep in mind that they're all theories and there is no proven truth).

You should stay in this debate, but just be more open-minded to different ideas and theories.

[lion_roog]

If I offended anyone...I would like to say that I don't give a crap. I love you all....now give me a kiss...:kiss: :D

"Truth" is funny....it's funny because it can change from person to person.

[StalkingWolf]

I am open-minded to hearing whatever people say, but let me ask you this, if the Bible is not God's Word, what is then? Since it is so-called not proven, nothing else has been proven to be God's Word, the Bible has always been considered as God's words, every since it was first written! Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God! So, if you think about it, it is the only sensable thing to believe that it is God's words, and has been every since God had those forty men write it....it was "God-breathed" Again, I say I am open-minded to anything people say, I am simply stating my replies or belief, not theories, on the issues at present...

[Muruwa]

Originally posted by lion_roog
I like Mormon's....never met a kinder people than the people of Salt Lake City...and I like how family oriented the Mormon Church is.:cheese:
Yes, that is something I enjoy about my church. Even if I don't get along with my siblings all the time, it's a huge comfort to know that I will always be with them, here and forever in the after life. This was very helpful to me when my grandmother died. It confused me on why I wasn't as sad as I thought I should have been, when I realized I would be seeing her again someday, I'll just have to wait till then.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Muruwa
This was very helpful to me when my grandmother died. It confused me on why I wasn't as sad as I thought I should have been, when I realized I would be seeing her again someday, I'll just have to wait till then.

Yes, I thought the same thing when people died around me. I was just like, it's apart of life and I will see them again.

Keep standing firm to your beliefs, StalkingWolf....it's a very admirable quality.:cheese:

[2 Die FR]

Originally posted by Muruwa
Even if I don't get along with my siblings all the time, it's a huge comfort to know that I will always be with them, here and forever in the after life.
Isn't that a wonderful thing to know, that families can be together forever? Being born and raised as a Mormon, I sometimes forget that not all people believe that. A death of a loved one is tragic, for the family members and people who lived close to that person, but there are many that believe that they will never see them again. It is very comforting to me, as it is to you, Muruwa, that the people that mean the most to us will be with us for eternity.

Being a Mormon is tough sometimes because the standards are held high for its members. The Word of Wisdom outlines some of them, such as we do not drink alcohol or coffee, we do not use tobacco or drugs, and we try to avoid profane, vulgar or offensive media. For me as an individual, these standards are not as hard to tolerate as the criticism I get occasionally even from my friends for being a Latter-Day Saint, especially for not drinking caffinated drinks, not watching R-rated movies or not dating until age 16 (but luckily I just turned 16, so that's great!) And every morning starting at 5:55 A.M. I go to church to attend Seminary, or scripture study, which they can't believe I do. It's not that hard though, and I get so much out of it, it really starts me off the right way each day.
If anyone has a question about anything, please give me a PM. Ok, I'm done!

[Inuchance]

I was raised as a Catholic, but I was never very devout, often questioning what I'd been taught, as I'm naturally a very inquisitive person, and the answer "because [x] says so" never satisfied me. When I realized that had I been born in some other region, I would probably have been raised a different religion, I began to wonder what made the religion I was learning 'Right,' and not having any proof,I ended up with the conclusion that it would be pretty risky to devote myself to One religion. Especially while studying mythology, you realize that all sorts of religions vary greatly, but also carry various similarities to other religions, both archaic and modern-day. Whether that's due to some sort of universal force (a God), or just the way humans developed I don't know. Rather than worry about which religion to stick to, I just live a relatively good life, in which I'd help others when able, avoid harming others, and generally staying out of the way of trouble, to improve humanity the best that I can.

[Inuchance]

And blah, hate to double post, but a couple extra things I wanted to reply to, but didn't think to at the time.


Originally posted by pntbll248
Roog, you double posted, you're going to Hell. :p

Just kidding, wanted to liven the mood a bit.

Is that one of the unwritten commandments, like "Thou shalt not pay too much for a muffler"? :cheese:


Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Being a Mormon is tough sometimes because the standards are held high for its members. The Word of Wisdom outlines some of them, such as we do not drink alcohol or coffee, we do not use tobacco or drugs, and we try to avoid profane, vulgar or offensive media. For me as an individual, these standards are not as hard to tolerate as the criticism I get occasionally even from my friends for being a Latter-Day Saint, especially for not drinking caffinated drinks, not watching R-rated movies or not dating until age 16 (but luckily I just turned 16, so that's great!) And every morning starting at 5:55 A.M. I go to church to attend Seminary, or scripture study, which they can't believe I do. It's not that hard though, and I get so much out of it, it really starts me off the right way each day.
If anyone has a question about anything, please give me a PM. Ok, I'm done!

For alcohol, tobacco, and drugs, there's absolutely nothing you're missing, unless doing things like puking all over yourself after a night of heavy-drinking is your thing (that mental image of someone I know covered in his own vomit is still ingrained in my mind :eww:). As for caffeine, you're just setting yourself up for trouble there, too. I'm a caffeine-addict, and as I'm writing this it's 5am and I'm still not feeling tired... The no-dating-until-your-16 standard I think is a good one to have... I have yet to actually see anything come meaningful out of a relationship started under that age...

Though, as for R-rated movies, that's something I could never live without, and I could never wake up at 6am (see previous paragraph, re: caffeine), especially if it meant having to go to church.

[Dare]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf

Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God!

I think you greatly underestimate the creative capacity of the human mind with that statement.
:hmm:

[unregistered user]

StalkingWolf, I too admire you for standing up strong for what you believe in. But as I said before, everything on this thread is based completely on faith. To you and I and others the Bible may be God's word, to others it might be the Qu'ran, and some it could be the words of Buddha or some that only follow the old testament of the bible. You may feel as though the other religions are not the real deal, but that doesn't mean that other people feel the same way. Hate to quote Scar but it fits, "Truth is in the eye of the beholder."

Now, everyone else please show StalkingWolf respect also and quit jumping on her all at once :idiot:

One last note, we don't know how many people put the bible together. For instance, for the longest time we thought the first five books of the bible were by Moses. But now there may be evidence to challenge that. Some say four different people wrote the first five books. All of the books that followed in the Old Testament was written in Alexandria or Israel by forty or so Jewish scribes. Some of the books and parts of the books even were left out because the Jews didn't consider them acceptable, mainly because they were written in Alexandria. The New Testament is even worse. The early church possibly took some of what should of been in there out at the council of Nicea due tot he fact that the church leaders didn't consider it canon. If you want to know how much we lost, a monastery in Sinai, Eygpt claims to have found a whole other gospel! It's impossible to say how many wrote the bible really, or at least really hard to know, there are some clues here and there.

Anyway, gotta go ^^ Make peace, not war.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God!

Eh, I dunno about that. I mean there are a lot more well written, descriptive and interesting books out there. Like The Lord Of the Rings. I mean come on, there are even several original languages in there.

No one's mind is finite, anyway.

[A-non-a-mus]

Originally posted by Ravoc
As for the people that have never heard the gospel at all before, I honestly don't know the answer to that one Xinithian, perhaps someone else here does.

I know a little on this,

picture your door, now think of someone knocking on it, you can hear the knocking, but you can't see who stands on the other side... will you open it?... or not?...

now, in Rev 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them and they with me."

in other words, everyone, in one form or another will know...

now, as for babies, whom hasn't matured enough to understand, well in psalms it has where david's baby dies, and david says: 'he won't come back to me but I will come to him.' in other words, they go to heaven.

[unregistered user]

Actually Neph, it is, the human brain only uses 10% of its capabilities, so it is finite. Then again if you go with a previous post on here of mine saying that nothing in science is proven completely, which it isn't, this could change as well.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Ravoc
Actually Neph, it is, the human brain only uses 10% of its capabilities, so it is finite. Then again if you go with a previous post on here of mine saying that nothing in science is proven completely, which it isn't, this could change as well.

The mind is finite in that sense....but in the sense of the ability of the mind, it is not finite.

:haha:...STL, I am already drunk off insanity.....but I'll take another hit, thanks.....:D


I think you greatly underestimate the creative capacity of the human mind with that statement.

True....but think of this....everything you picture and create in your mind is actually pieces and parts of something you have already seen already. And if you have yet to see something, and you see it, then you relate it to things you know.

[unregistered user]

Roog is right, even mythology has its basis in something that people claimed to have seen, use the unicorn for example.

[Kintaru]

Now I believe that the bible is God's word, but I can't think that we're meant to take everything in it literally.

But that's just it, I can say I believe it's the world of God, but I can't prove it. I mean, who's to say it just wasn't something somebody started to make up, and before you know it, it snowballed into what it is today.

But I don't think it matters, as the bible was never meant to be a complex set of rules on what's moral or not. In my mind it's a basic guide on how to be a good person and love others, it doesn't need to be so complicated, and in that case, it doesn't matter who wrote it. It's message is still the same as it always was.

[Darkslash]

Originally posted by Kintaru
Now I believe that the bible is God's word, but I can't think that we're meant to take everything in it literally.

But that's just it, I can say I believe it's the world of God, but I can't prove it. I mean, who's to say it just wasn't something somebody started to make up, and before you know it, it snowballed into what it is today.

But I don't think it matters, as the bible was never meant to be a complex set of rules on what's moral or not. In my mind it's a basic guide on how to be a good person and love others, it doesn't need to be so complicated, and in that case, it doesn't matter who wrote it. It's message is still the same as it always was.
Well-said.

[TakaTiger]

This thread is rather..uuhhh.. what the word... weird kinda cause not a couplle days ago my dad decided he was gonna Try to convert me i guess, and im a bit frightened at some of his attempts oO

[Dare]

Originally posted by lion_roog

True....but think of this....everything you picture and create in your mind is actually pieces and parts of something you have already seen already. And if you have yet to see something, and you see it, then you relate it to things you know.

Which explains why the Bible contains stories bearing striking resemblence to various mythological themes and legends that were long in place before Christinity was even a blip on the radar.
See something that already exists. Interpret something that already exists. Assimilate and alter that which already exists to fit into own religion.

Of course, the loophole is by saying that the Christian god created the natural disasters and whatnot that caused the stories to be written, and that's a never-ending debate, the final solution of which will only be revealed after we die...or something.



Originally posted by TakaTiger
This thread is rather..uuhhh.. what the word... weird kinda cause not a couplle days ago my dad decided he was gonna Try to convert me i guess, and im a bit frightened at some of his attempts oO

Hehe, now that's quite ironic. :)
My family used to try to convert me, until I went to the priest of their parish and asked him to tell them to leave me alone.

[unregistered user]

Yes, but there are some things in the bible that couldn't have been related to thing son earth, the book of Revelation for instance.

[Darkslash]

If anything, similarities between other philosophies/religions/mythologies/legends only serve to back up the veracity of the Bible.

[Dare]

Originally posted by Ravoc
Yes, but there are some things in the bible that couldn't have been related to thing son earth, the book of Revelation for instance.

Bah, I forgot to mention the effects of smoking pot/crack and/or dropping acid can have on the human mind in my previous post. (not that I've ever done any of those things, but I've seen interesting artistic results, and I consider the book of Revelations to be "written art")
My friends and I used to joke that whoever wrote Revelations must have been tripping.
:p

True, there are truly bizarre things in Revelations, but I still think that a human is capable of thinking those things up without divine help. If the human subconscious and transform a teakettle into a scorpion while dreaming, then who knows what other metaphors and mixing-bowl ideas people are capable of, even when they're awake and completely sober?

It really all boils down to which philosophy you feel like following.
I?m just playing quasi-devil?s advocate.
:ayecapn:


Originally posted by Darkslash
If anything, similarities between other philosophies/religions/mythologies/legends only serve to back up the veracity of the Bible.

Perhaps. I didn't mean to say that by incorporating pagan stories into the Bible that it makes the Bible any more or less valid. I was merely using mythological legend assimilation to illustrate how one religion and/or mythology, can use another to create a similar, yet different, mythology for itself.

I'm actually happy that Christianity has assimilated so many things into itself, because in doing so, it preserves the traditions and legends so that future generations can go back and relearn the old ways in their original form.
At least nowadays...
Of course, Christianity isn't the only religion to do this. Take a look at the ancient Greeks and Romans...hell, the Romans assimilated more than just religion.
(but this is not a history lesson)
;)

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by StalkingWolf
I am open-minded to hearing whatever people say, but let me ask you this, if the Bible is not God's Word, what is then? Since it is so-called not proven, nothing else has been proven to be God's Word, the Bible has always been considered as God's words, every since it was first written! Men have such finite minds that they wouldn't have been able to make a book such as the Bible without the help of an Almighty God! So, if you think about it, it is the only sensable thing to believe that it is God's words, and has been every since God had those forty men write it....it was "God-breathed" Again, I say I am open-minded to anything people say, I am simply stating my replies or belief, not theories, on the issues at present... The problem is that for your backing of opinions, you just use the Bible and expect everybody to take the Bible as the absolute truth. But to me and many others, the Bible is just a book and it takes more reasoning to convince somebody that something is immoral.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Wicked
Which explains why the Bible contains stories bearing striking resemblence to various mythological themes and legends that were long in place before Christinity was even a blip on the radar.
See something that already exists. Interpret something that already exists. Assimilate and alter that which already exists to fit into own religion.



True, some Bible stories are closely related to Egyptian myths and Christian Holidays can relate to Pagan Holidays. But on the other hand there has been a couple Bible stories that have been proven as actual events by archeologists. Scientists even proved that the parting of the Red Sea, to my knowledge it was the Red Sea, can actually happen if things happen almost perfectly and all.


If the human subconscious and transform a teakettle into a scorpion while dreaming, then who knows what other metaphors and mixing-bowl ideas people are capable of, even when they're awake and completely sober?

I believe God works through the subconscious mind.:cheese:

[Inuchance]

It's entirely possible that the Bible could've been written by a person/people with nothing better to do and probably more then the recommended amount of drugs in their system. The Principia Discordia (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php) is a good example of such a book.

Of course, the Principia Discordia is still a fun read, at around 80pgs (I think.. I read it back like, 4-5 years ago...). What other religious text includes an unbreakable cypher (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/images/CypherCode.gif), 5 commandments that can only be read by viewing it upsidedown (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/11.php), and drawings that could've been drawn by Escher (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/59.php)? :lol:

[Rafiki '03]

I think my sister is right there is only one righteous book and only one God. that is what the bible says. And God did choose 40 men to write the Bible and I know that God told the men what to say.And the book does not have to be funto read to be a good book.And the Bible also has TEN COMMANDMENTS that you dont have to read upside down, and besides isnt it a lot easier to read it the reagular way?

[Rafiki '03]

Yep,they are right I have read my bible and I have also read a lot of verses in the Bible that say to honour your mother and your father. Even in the ten commandments it says to honour your parents.Like stalking wolf said if your parents said dont take a cookie and you still did, that is a sin. Even if it is a tiny little sin it is considered just as bad as a big sin to God.We may think that it is just a little sin but it is the same as a big sin nomader what type of sin it is.

[A-non-a-mus]

[i]We may think that it is just a little sin but it is the same as a big sin nomader what type of sin it is. [/B]

that's almost just what I said earlier...

a sin is a sin no matter what sin the sin is..

[unregistered user]

Indeed. Our understanding is not the same as God's understanding. Every sin is the same, just as every person is the same, in God's eyes.

And please don't make jokes about Christianity, I don't see anyone doing such things to your beliefs.