SPOILERS: New movie chat

[Azerane]

This thread is for the discussion of the new 2019 TLK movie, it will contain spoilers regarding the new movie so don't continue reading if you wish to avoid those.

SPOILERS FROM THIS POINT ON!!!

Pat and I saw the movie on Wednesday (it's now Friday) so I've had a couple of days to think about it since viewing. Pat and I had extremely different responses to the movie, he absolutely loved it, it made him emotional, he loved the visuals and the voice acting. I was underwhelmed by it. The movie ended and I felt like I'd missed almost all connection with it. Did I like it? Yes. But it didn't really move me, and I certainly didn't love it.

Visually it is beautiful, there's a lot to like about it and admire, and some scenes just had me going "wow" with how real they looked. That being said, I felt a very strange disconnect with lions that look almost real, but not quite, and I struggled to connect emotionally with them. I felt scar was the best lion character by far, and I did find the few little story changes regarding him quite interesting, I felt like his approaching the hyenas after the elephant graveyard scene was a nice touch, it made the hyenas strong villains of their own and I felt played on the original soundtrack not included in the movie where Scar says "I never thought hyenas essential, they're crude and unspeakably plain, but maybe they've a glimmer of potential, if allied with my vision and brain."

Scar was a good villain, I felt threatened by him, the moment eally on where cub Simba goes to visit him after seeing the Pridelands and says something along the lines of "just think, one day I'll be the one ordering you around" and Scar's face is looming behind the joyful naive Simba was quite powerful to me.

I really wanted to like Zazu, but the voice acting sounded like every line was shouted and I found it difficult to like. I was very pleasantly surprised by Timon and Pumbaa, I thought they had a great dynamic and it was easy to get caught up in that. They did such a great job with "the lion sleeps tonight" I nearly jumped out of my chair when Nala appeared :lol: I really loved that part, when they started singing I thought "I wonder when Nala will appear" then I got so caught up in the moment that I completely forgot about her, which was obviously their intention and it worked so well.

Otherwise I'm not sure what to say, I wasn't moved by Mufasa's death at all (really disappointed about that, as that is such a key moment), and I felt Simba as a character gets buried beneath the movie as a whole.

So while I enjoyed the movie, it was nothing like I expected in terms of my reaction. I'm not disappointed or upset, I'm not overjoyed and loving it, it's just kind of...meh. A reaction which I myself don't really understand. Having said that I am going to see it twice more, haha. Once with a friend who's desperate to see it and another time with Pat because we think we got a crappy cinema in regards to their projector technology, it just didn't look as good as it should have I don't think and the frame rate seemed pretty poor.

I don't think I'm ever going to love it, but I do think it will grow on me with a few more viewings and I'll be able to really enjoy it. It's hard to watch a movie and disconnect from the original, that will definitely get easier with future viewings.

So that's me, on the plus side I'm loving new merchandise, though its bad for my bank account. I got a nice throw rug at the cinema and they had nice metal popcorn buckets but I didn't get one :D

I'm really interested to hear everyone else's views, gong to love discussing it more :)

[This Land]

[copied this from my facebook :P)

Right, so I've just seen it tonight! :D

I must stress that this is solely my opinion and I'm not saying that I am right and other people's views are wrong, you may disagree with what I say and that's fine. We all fell in love with the original which is what brought us together so when a new thing appears that's different to what we all fell in love with there is going to be different veiws ^^.

In short, I was pleasantly surprised! It's not -perfect-, but its a lot better then what I set my expectations at.

I'm not comparing this film to the original because they are worlds apart, its a completely different style, animation, cast (apart of James Earl Jones and Hans Zimmer returning to play their parts of course) I'm looking at this film for what it is in itself. Also at this time, I'm not going too into detail as I've only seen it once and its a lot to take in.

Realism - The realism of the animals isn't perfectly polished, but enough to feel that they are in fact, real. How lions act in the wild has been very well replicated here, I like how they animated how a lion is really meant to roar when Mufasa roars before "everything the light touches" scene, and not like a wide yawn (although admittedly this does still happen a couple of times). The interactions between characters are nicely done (like Zazu not looking head-on while talking, but to the side) The scenery does look amazing too.

Emotion - This was a big thing a lot of people were talking about. We all know expressions play a big part in a film and it does come across that this film barely has any, and it was intentional for realism purposes. Now I can see where Jon Favreau is coming from with that and it does kind of work in the film for most scenes and feels realistic, but he did go a little too overboard when there was zero expression in the most famous scenes. Lions expressions are subtle but not non-existent, So it worked for some of the movie, but not all, but to be honest I tended just to not think about it and it only became apparent when something big happened. So it only ruined it a little bit for me, wasn't a complete deal-breaker.

Music - Well, being a huuuuuge fan on Hans Zimmer this is kind of biased. He could do a dramatic orchestral arrangement of "Baby Shark" and I would love it.
Although Hans hasn't really made anything -completely- new score-wise, I like how he has done it, its a huge blast of nostalgia but with added bits or things mixed around just enough for it to feel fresh. You can tell he has injected a lot of experience he has had over the last 25 years into this. The score for the stampede, for example, it's shocking to say that I loved so much more what he has done with this, sent so many good shivers ^_^. The whole score, in general, did not disappoint but I won't go on and on as I could go into depth for hours.

The songs - I mostly enjoyed, Circle of life is classic of course and it was great to hear Lindiwe from the west end production singing ^_^. Just can't wait to be king & Hakuna Mata was brilliant, really enjoyed how they pulled these off in a realistic manner, and Lion sleeps tonight was just pure gold, myself and most of the cinema was in hysterics and really brought a fun atmosphere xD. Can you feel the love tonight was forgettable, that was a letdown. The biggest flaw is that it wasn't night time and the singing just had no feel to it at all.

Another little let down was the Mufasa Spirit scene. It felt quite rushed and not that powerful. It was still nice, but with all the things at their disposal I expected something a little more, I dunno *shrugs*.

As a whole, solid 8.5/10 for me. Though it has its flaws I really enjoyed it as a whole. Lion King has followed me from childhood to where I am now and when I heard this film was coming I was scared yet hopeful. This remake has brought a lot of new content, some of it didn't work, but I feel a lot of it worked very well. It's nice to see that this film has brought a lot of popularity back and hopefully re-ignited a lot of the audience's childhood nostalgia. I went into a full cinema full of people around my age and only a few younger people insight. Looking around after the film finished they all left humming, laughing and singing the songs. It's like it's been reborn for us all, and to me, that's a treasure in itself.

[Azerane]

I'm so pleased you enjoyed the movie :) I hope my post didn't come across as portraying it as a bad movie, because I don't think it is, I just didn't connect with it.

I do agree with you about the Mufasa's ghost scene. It left me longing for more, I found the flashes of lightening to be so quick that I couldn't perceive the image properly. He didn't need to be a fully formed cloud lion, but it needed a bit more form in my opinion.

Regarding songs, I felt the new song was unnecessary and I really missed the "busa" theme from the original, the moment that music kicks in has always been really powerful for me. But oh well.

Like I said, I think it will grow on me more with future viewings, and it is a good movie I just didn't connect with it the first time.

[nathalie]

I was supposed to see it with Adam last night, but it was raining, and I didn't want to walk 25 min in that, and then back after the movie, so I didn't go.
I went this morning on my own.

People who know me, know I have "my very own opinion" lol, and maybe sometimes odd ways of making them come accross, but in no means I intend anything to be offensive or anything like that.

As you all know, I was never (ever) excited about all this, and especially not impressed at all with Beyoncé.

Right... here's what I thought of it.
*spoilers*











Lindewe Brown singing Circle of Life, great! Seen her a few times in the show in London, she's always been great.
So when I heard that about 2 weeks ago, I did get very excited about that.

The animation was absolutely stunning!
At moments I thought they used the technique they did with Dinosaur. Everything is real, apart from the characters.

Adult Simba's voice, made me think of Matthew a lot, it fitted him, that insecurity he gave to the character.

The Lion Sleeps Tonight, I wish it lasted a bit longer to really get into when the music kicks in, shame it got so "rudely abruptet" (hehe)

I liked the new added scenes, with the mouse, screen filler maybe? But I did think it was just a nice touch.
I also liked the scene where Nala wanted to run away and find help, trying to hide from Scar.

I liked Scar's voice, it suited him.

Timon was funny, but, he sounded a bit whiny when he speaks.
Pumbaa, don't have much to say about him, didn't think he was too bad, but also not that funny really :/

And the cuteness of the cubs? And baby piggy? OMG!

So far, not all bad.

However ...

Young Simba's voice didn't do it for me.
It completely missed that sass and arrogance, of being king, ruling the kingdom, and telling his uncle what to do when he's king.

No emotions/expressions, and too little movements.
I know it had to look real, but still.
Mufasa is confronting Scar that he wasn't at the presentation. You hear voices, but both lions just stand there, doing nothing.

Young Simba is singing out loud "I just can't wait to be king" but his mouth barely opens when belching it out at the end of the song.

Scar tells Simba to run away and never return, and Scar just ... stands there, no movement of his head, nothing.

I thought it was quite boring to watch.
Felt a little like a National Geographic documentary with a voice over on it sometimes.

Music wise, I expected a lot more during the scene where the hyena's chase the cubs. I kept waiting for something while a hyena poked his head through, but it didn't came.
"Spirit" brought nothing to the scene it was played with. I was so waiting for the score to come, and it didn't.
Now, weather I like that song or not, has nothing to do with it, I just didn't think it fit that particular scene. They really should have kept the original there.

The Mufasa in cloud scene.
Well, it was a cloud. And a voice. But certainly not as impressive as in the animated version.
Shame. As that's one of the most iconic scenes of the movie.

As soon as Nala finds Simba again, it went way too fast.
Simba didn't even think for a second, and neither did Nala.
Felt like the last time we seen the musical in London, where the actors just rambled their lines to get it all squished in within the time frame.
I did expect a much nicer moment of them meeting again.
"Can you feel the love tonight", I didn't feel the love.

I've always said, I like Beyoncé's singing, but don't like to hear her speak.
Which is mainly why I wasn't that thrilled she'd be in this (and, I didn't quite like how they announce her "with", like she's so much more special then the rest).
Hell, I was a Destiny's Child fan long ago ^^
And her singing this song, was a big let down for me.
I was really hoping, she would have me change my mind with this, with her being in this movie, but it didn't.
It didn't leave a mark at all.

Also, during this song, her singing, and also young Simba's singing certain words, there's no need to go all "Mariah Carey" and like ooooohhhoooohhhhooooh.
I just felt it wasn't needed at all.
But that's just preference I guess.




I'll leave with another positive though, I did feel that towards the end, the emotions or expressions became much better and clearer. I could definatly see fear and sadness in Simba and Scar their eyes/faces so much more, which was great! (finally)

Also, Mufasa's death, it did much more to me then it did 25 years ago.
I don't know how else to say it as "Scar slapping him in the face" which makes him fall, it had a bigger impact on me like this.



All in all not extremely bad, but also not great for me.



I think that, if this was my very first Lion King encouter, I wouldn't have loved it as much as I do with the original.
And, my bank account would have love me so much more :lol:
Trying to think about it, if I were 11 again ...
The music, the characters, everything in total made me want to see it again straight away (and I did, saw it 3 times at the movies back then).
But now, I didn't really get the feeling "oooh, I wanna see it again straight away!"
More as in like "yeah, I'll see it again, but I can wait a few days/weeks".

It's a nice movie, the story is still there, like it's always been, but it didn't touch me, or moved me, in a way it did years ago.
(mainly because of all the negative points I summed up)
I don't think this version would help me through the rough times I've been through, like the original one did years ago.
Playing the music I had on repeat every single day for months on end.
And I don't think I would search for every forum I could find, and ended up with some of the friends I did end up with because of the original!


Ooh, and "It's never too late", I like that :D wish Elton'd put that in his setlest for his farewell tour now, hehe.

[nathalie]

I forgot... Zazu is funny too ^^

And what happens to Simba's fluff?
Yeah, weird :lol:

[Leorgathar]

I saw it last Friday
Overall I found it quite enjoyable, which is what I at least wanted from it, so I'm relieved in that.
I'll first say that I can see what the filmmakers tried to do, and in some ways they succeed. The photorealism is just incredible, that first scene with the mouse did well in convincing my brain that I wasn't looking at animation (that along with the VR tech they used to film like they do in a live action movie). So yeah, I know it bugs that media calls it "live action", but whether we like it or not, that just means they succeeded, and that's amazing.

I would have forgiven the movie's existence for that, had it not been because of the serious lack of expressions in characters, which only made some scenes feel very awkward and the characters boring. There was no connection between voice actors and animations, and thus I didn't connect with them. Jon Favreau said that they wanted to express emotion through body language instead of face expressions, but I don't think they did that right either. Characters feel stiff at times, just look at Scar and Simbas' interaction after Mufasa's death, or Simba and Nala's argument, or when Mufasa is talking to Simba after saving him from the hyenas (you're giving your son a heart-to-heart talk, look at him in the eyes!)

I liked the change with the hyenas, especially Shenzi's leadership role. They're less stupid and more threatening, but they're still funny (Azizi and Kamari were great xD). I missed the silliness, but I think the change works much better in this style. Timon and Pumbaa were pretty funny too, and the whole talk about them not seeing life as a circle but as a line was an interesting addition. But I still prefer the original voices, of course. In the case of Zazu it's the other way around, John Oliver was perfect for the role, and I really liked him x)

It was implied in Scar's introduction that he and Mufasa had fought before ("I wouldn't dream of challenging you... again"), which in turn kiiind of implied that it was Mufasa the one who gave Scar his scar, at least that's the vibe I got. Might be wrong, but it's open to that interpretation, I liked that.
Scar and Sarabi's relationship was also an interesting change, ditching the idea of wanting Nala as his queen, as in the musical. It bugs me as a purist, but I guess it works better with these new versions of the characters.

The final act was great, I really liked the whole scene almost as much as in the original. In fact I liked that they finally answered how Simba managed to leap up the edge of Pride Rock and pounce Scar when he had him in his grasp: He bit Scar's face, and Scar pulled him up trying to free himself from it! I know it's just a tiny detail, but that had bothered me for many years, I'm really glad they corrected that ^^

Ok now, for some heavy criticism...

I think the movie has a problem with handling subtext. Like before the stampede, when Scar and Simba are in the gorge. In the original, Scar plays with Simba's feelings telling him everybody knows about the mess he got in with the hyenas ("lucky daddy was there to save you, huh?") and suggests him to practice his "little roar". That pissed off Simba, which is why he practiced it right there and then, and loud. That was pure Scar-style manipulation, Simba really felt his dad's death was his fault. In the new movie, however, Scar literally tells him that the gorge is where lions practice their roaring, and that he should practice his roar right there to make his dad proud. If I was that version of Simba I'd tell Scar "But you TOLD me to roar here!"

Another example is when Nala reunites with Simba, which is the scene I have more problem with. In just over a minute, Simba and Nala recognize each other almost immediately, Timon and Pumbaa act like nothing happened, Nala tells Simba he should go back, that they miss each other, and we're supposed to believe they're suddenly in love. It not only feels rushed, it lacks expression, body language, and subtext. In the original, Nala doesn't recognize Simba at first, and she even doubts for a second it's him, and when she realizes it's him she jumps in joy. Her surprise there was much stronger, and consequently that reaction takes a downturn afterwards when she tells him "It's like you're back from the dead. You don't know how much this will mean to everyone... what it means to me", you can see a hint of sadness in her voice and in her expression, she really missed him, Simba comforts her and that's where they start falling in love. Also, when Simba tells Timon and Pumbaa to leave them alone, that gives them privacy and makes the scene feel more personal. The dialogues in the new one are pretty much the same, but without that quality acting from the first it just feels rushed and unconvincing. Not to mention of course how CYFTLT takes place during daytime, removing the romantic ambient the transition from twilight to night gives.
And Nala saying goodbye to Simba disappointed and leaving him back in the jungle just like that? I don't know what to make of that, it just didn't feel like her xP

Maybe I'm just nitpicking these things, I don't know if it would bother me less if there was no '94 original to compare it with, but there's certainly something off with these changes in pacing and acting.

Anyway, getting that out of my system, I still think it's a good movie. At least I liked it more than Beauty and the Beast, and it still gives us fans something interesting to talk about.
Besides, I'm very looking forward to see it in Spanish, since they brought both Carlos Rivera and Fela Dominguez, who played Simba and Nala in TLKoB! :D and interestingly they also brought in the original voice of Simba (Arturo Mercado), but he plays Rafiki this time around. I'm hoping I'll like the movie more on my second viewing, as it's sometimes the case.

[Azerane]

I 100% agree regarding Simba and Nala recognising each other too quickly. Simba knowing Nala is fine, but the last lion that Nala souls be thinking of in that moment is Simba, she's thought him to be dead for most of her life. There's no reason she should suddenly assume this lion in front of her is Simba, even if he reminds her of him. There definitely should have been done hesitation. At least in my mind, Pat wasn't bothered by it. I'm not saying she had to sit back and say "who are you?" Like in the original, but a second or two of hesitation with a questioning tone would have done it.

Seeing it again today with a friend, so I'm sure I'll have more to say after that :D I'm suspecting that I'll enjoy it much more this time around.

[Azerane]

Just finished my second viewing. Definitely enjoyed it way more this time, it was beautiful. Definitely a better projector in this cinema, and it made me emotional, I got teary when Mufasa died. There were still brief moments when I felt the connection wasn't there but whether that was a lack in moments of voice acting or visual emotion or a combination I'm not sure. I really did enjoy it :)

Also, my friend nearly jumped out of her skin when Nala appeared :lol: it was great :D

[nathalie]

I would have forgiven the movie's existence for that, had it not been because of the serious lack of expressions in characters, which only made some scenes feel very awkward and the characters boring. There was no connection between voice actors and animations, and thus I didn't connect with them. Jon Favreau said that they wanted to express emotion through body language instead of face expressions, but I don't think they did that right either. Characters feel stiff at times, just look at Scar and Simbas' interaction after Mufasa's death, or Simba and Nala's argument, or when Mufasa is talking to Simba after saving him from the hyenas (you're giving your son a heart-to-heart talk, look at him in the eyes!)


Exactly what I thought.
Made it very boring to watch at times. They are having the expressions and emotions in their voices, but they just stand there, staring, not moving.

[Kossu]

I watched the movie last Wednesday. I went to watch it with little expectation, on the insistance of my bf, who is also a TLK fan. However, I was a bit curious to see if there were any major alterations or additions to the main plotline and in general...I was going to watch it at some point. Overall, I think the movie met my initial expectations.


I enjoyed the voice acting, I thought that for the most part it was really good. I didn't like Scar very much, though of course his voice actor had a huge legacy to live up to. The visual rendering of the lions as real, breathing lions was impressive. The sceneries looked beautiful, I especially liked the jungle scenes. Some of the cub scenes looked very cute and the same goes for adorable baby Pumbaa. I liked the hyenas a lot and I felt that they could have a little more depth. They seemed so promising in the Elephant graveyard scene. And indeed, a lot more threatening.

I also enjoyed the additions of the jungle animals, especially the bat eared fox. It made the whole jungle environment a little more lively. Also, it made me wonder if they used any of the discarted concept material from the 1994 film, because there was a bat eared fox character (and more characters) that had never made it into the movie then:https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Bhati

The interaction between Scar and Sarabi surprised me. I got such fanfiction vibes from it. Does anyone remember an old popular fanfic called "Chronicles of the Pridelands" by John Burkitt and David Morris? If I remember correctly, Scar was very much in love with Sarabi in that story. For those that might be familiar with TLKFAA, I remember seeing plenty of fanart from that story back around 2005.

The scene with Nala escaping Pridelands was the one thing that I was hoping to see in this movie and I was glad they included it.



Now, on the things I didn't like.


Surprise...The lack of emotion. I expected this from all I'd seen of the trailers, but I didn't think it'd be so serious. A part of me was still hoping we were just not getting a good glimpse of what we'd see. But there it was. You have all the crucial emotional moments, that will add to the characters development and will make you feel things for the character... and the voice actors have done a fair job...and yet you just don't see it. The reaction you expect never comes.
Like this:


or when Mufasa is talking to Simba after saving him from the hyenas (you're giving your son a heart-to-heart talk, look at him in the eyes!)

Or Simba's reaction when Mufasa dies. Scar seemed more expressive than the rest, but even in his case there isn't much variation. Also, it seemed to me that unlike the lions until then, from the moment Timon and Pumbaa come to the scene, there's a lot more life and expression to them. And it seemed to me that it stayed that way to the end. Maybe it was just my idea though.

"Be prepared" felt boring. That adds to the lack of charm of Scar as a villain. He's just a sick-looking lion with a bad RBF case.

The first part of the movie seems well balanced. The second part though, felt very rushed. Simba and Nala getting together and parting again, it happened so very fast. Nala saying goodbye and running away like it was nothing was very odd for me too. It made Simba and Nala's relationship seem a lot more flat. And the scene with Mufasa's ghost. It felt empty. It didn't have the weight and impact that it meant to have. That the original had. The message about learning from the past and finding who you are. It was just, oh right, I'm Simba son of Mufasa, going back, bye. I liked seeing Simba and Nala return together. But, the new song "Spirit", it didn't feel like it fit in that scene at all. It felt generic and forgetable. I really missed Busa. It would have made the scene so much more powerful.

Finally, another thing that still baffles me to no end...and it seemed to be coming from the trailers was...the lack of colour and contrast. Colour is so very important in the visual arts to establishing mood. To evoke feelings like happiness, fear, hope etc. Just like music. And yet. The film seems for the most part washed out. Flat. Like a documentary from the 90s. It seemed to me like the most succesful mood-setting scene was battle for Pride rock, where the colours were inevitably darker. But for the most part, the rest of the movie, doesn't deliver on that point. The most colourful scene of the 1994 film, "I just can't wait to be king" seems so boring and has lost its energy and life. I don't understand how a professional studio like Disney is okay with this washed out, amateuristic photographic style. It's like they aim for a 90s documentary style. I just don't get it. And it makes me sad, because I think that to an extent, better colour mood-setting would have helped made up for the lack of the characters expressions and help illustrate better the emotions they were experiencing.


In the end, to connect with the characters and the plot I feel like I was clinging on to the 1994 movie too much to make watching this bearable. If I didn't know what would happen in the 1994 movie, if I wasn't familiar with the music, I think I'd be confused as for what the characters were feeling and thinking. Or how it all connected. I teared up when Mufasa died and it resonated to me right then, that if it wasn't for this music that I was already familiar with and overall with the connection with the original, I'd be hardly moved. From that moment onwards I felt like I was watching some sort of very well made parody.

It was interesting to see some things from another perspective and I certainly didn't hate this film, but I didn't like it enough either. It left me feeling meh too. It doesn't feel like it has much heart to stand out on its own. It seems to me that it just relies too much on people's memories and love for the original.


I truly feel I would have enjoyed it a lot more, if there was more colour/contrast and not such a lack of expressions. But in the end, that's what they were aiming for...

[nathalie]

It seems like, the negatives in this movie, we mainly seem to agree on most things.

[nathalie]

Finally, another thing that still baffles me to no end...and it seemed to be coming from the trailers was...the lack of colour and contrast. Colour is so very important in the visual arts to establishing mood. To evoke feelings like happiness, fear, hope etc. Just like music. And yet. The film seems for the most part washed out. Flat. Like a documentary from the 90s. It seemed to me like the most succesful mood-setting scene was battle for Pride rock, where the colours were inevitably darker. But for the most part, the rest of the movie, doesn't deliver on that point. The most colourful scene of the 1994 film, "I just can't wait to be king" seems so boring and has lost its energy and life. I don't understand how a professional studio like Disney is okay with this washed out, amateuristic photographic style. It's like they aim for a 90s documentary style. I just don't get it. And it makes me sad, because I think that to an extent, better colour mood-setting would have helped made up for the lack of the characters expressions and help illustrate better the emotions they were experiencing.


We've seen it tonight in "super screen" (and wow, it was bad if you have sensitive vision, or get headaches quite easy, like me, was glad it was over, haha).
BUT ...
I also did think the coloring was a bit bland, not much contrast.
But it may all just depend on the theater and their screen.

Tonight was very vibrant, and lots of contrast! Much more colorful then the previous 2 viewings I saw at the cinema in town.
For this super screen viewing, we had to go to another theater.

[cleargreenwater]

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is this hidden yet?
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I

In the end, to connect with the characters and the plot I feel like I was clinging on to the 1994 movie too much to make watching this bearable. If I didn't know what would happen in the 1994 movie, if I wasn't familiar with the music, I think I'd be confused as for what the characters were feeling and thinking. Or how it all connected. I teared up when Mufasa died and it resonated to me right then, that if it wasn't for this music that I was already familiar with and overall with the connection with the original, I'd be hardly moved. From that moment onwards I felt like I was watching some sort of very well made parody.

It was interesting to see some things from another perspective and I certainly didn't hate this film, but I didn't like it enough either. It left me feeling meh too. It doesn't feel like it has much heart to stand out on its own. It seems to me that it just relies too much on people's memories and love for the original.



I think you said a mouthful right there. You are absolutely right, if I didn’t know the story so well I probably would be thoroughly disengaged from the film on it’s own merits, and lost at worst. There was a little boy sitting next to me about 8 years old who was asking his mother if it was going to be over, and are they leaving soon, before Mufasa even died, who sat on his mother's phone the rest of the movie.

Also....



I think the movie has a problem with handling subtext. Like before the stampede, when Scar and Simba are in the gorge. In the original, Scar plays with Simba's feelings telling him everybody knows about the mess he got in with the hyenas ("lucky daddy was there to save you, huh?") and suggests him to practice his "little roar". That pissed off Simba, which is why he practiced it right there and then, and loud. That was pure Scar-style manipulation, Simba really felt his dad's death was his fault. In the new movie, however, Scar literally tells him that the gorge is where lions practice their roaring, and that he should practice his roar right there to make his dad proud. If I was that version of Simba I'd tell Scar "But you TOLD me to roar here!"

Dear god did it ever. Most of the dialog just felt like an awkward mess, and there was no follow-through on any of the trains of thought.




Anyway, my review:


It wasn’t butchered, but it wasn’t great either. Lots of people have commented on the facial emotions thing so I’ll skip that, there’s plenty of other ways to convey emotion too, though, and the film just fails in them. The effects were "pretty" but the cinematography wasn’t great. Even not taking body posture into account (which yeah…they clearly didn’t try too hard there either,) there’s dramatic angles and things to convey mood and emotion and suspense that the first film had that this one was oblivious to. They could have replicated Simba’s desperate run through the trees after Rafiki if they’d wanted to, lots of CG films have light & shadow running scenes to build drama; things like the hyenas not popping out anywhere; or even the framing shots when you see Pride Rock at the end, the old one conveys movement and drama by following Zazu in, in this one Zazu is just kind of fluttering somewhere on the side of the panorama. They weirdly used the Busa theme to play when Rafiki is fighting at the end, too, why? "Pretty", but no sense of cohesive vision.

The dialogs all just felt stilted and non-organic/forced/awkward. No natural flow. From all of the characters. (In hindsight the Simba/Nala interactions were pretty rushed/weird, but I’ll admit….I was sort of getting bored with the movie by then and it was just one more example of hot-mess dialog.)

I liked the handling of the hyenas here better than the original and wish I could transplant it--it was just an inkling in the original that they were a seperate 'nation' with a matriarch, and this film makes that right available and Shenzi is legitimately frightening. But even then, you took the pains to cast comedians and like…barely used them. I get it, its probably WAAAAY more expensive to animate like this, than to dash a pencil around after seeing a voice actor's mannerisms when they go off the cuff, but meh. Would've added a little energy.

I was totally OK with the reprised Be Prepared. You seriously can’t do goose-stepping hyenas right now, the USA has collectively lost it’s f----n mind lately and it doesn't need to be fed. IMO the reprise was fine considering I thought they weren't even going to have it. It just goes with the lackluster CYFTLT that other people have mentioned.

And the weirdest thing, but if you would’ve asked me what the theme of the first one was, I would have said to take on responsibility. This one, despite being basically the same, the closest thing to a theme I could force into it was a blunt “don’t be a hedonist”, which I guess is solid advice but lacks all the delicacy and grace and inspiration of the former. The Mufasa-in-the-clouds in this one really did shift the scene from any kind of broad philosophical application of "remember who you are", to specifically being about Simba. I don't think the film took much time to put any kind of heart or meaningfulness into it.

IDK, ultimately I found it took itself too seriously without any real artistry or vision or investment, impressive as they effects were. The whole thing was pretty shallow, which I guess is better than a raging dumpster fire.

I left the theater with the music haunting my consciousness like a waking fever dream, and an overall feeling that there was nothing to what I just saw, one way or the other, good or bad, inspiring or nostalgic or not.

This is not a movie that is going to engage, intrigue, or move new fans, only remind old ones that TLK exists.

I’ll probably see it again with my cousin in a few weeks, she’ll want to see it and maybe I’ll find up other things to like, and I’ll enjoy raiding the Disney Store for classic merchandise if they have any. That’s about it though. It’ll be out of theaters in about 3 weeks once everyone’s gawked, Disney pushed the TLK brand so the characters don't become obsolete in people's minds, and it’s come and gone.


And hello plot-holes, ZAZU WASN’T IN A CAGE in this one why did Nala not tell him to go for help, or Zazu not think of it himself? xD :zazuyuck:


Edit to add: I want to give the Elton John song a listen thru, I sort of felt like he was giving us middle aged Millenials a bracing message, lol.

[Azerane]

I don't have s lot of time to respond to everything right now, but CGW your review really sounds a lot like how I first felt, I was so underwhelmed.

The more I think about the movie, the more I find things to like about it, and the more specific my dislikes are. For example the emotions, but more particularly in certain scenes than others.

Did not even think about the Zazu plot hole!

I did actually read an interesting article/blog post by someone who had never seen the original TLK:

https://www.cnet.com/news/i-watched-the-new-lion-king-without-seeing-the-original-and-i-have-some-questions/

Simba definitely does suffer in the new version, especially as an adult, his emotional "trial" and figuring out what's going on etc is just lacking.

[nathalie]

Fatty and Pumbaa? >.<

I seen the movie yesterday in 3D.
Because after seeing the Super Screen version, I thought it would actually look very good in 3D.
But it didn't really. Nothing really stood out for me, apart from the obvious water splashes, birds flying, "little things" like that.
With the glasses on, the movie becomes very dark (I guess I forgot they do that).
So I wasn't overly impressed with the 3D version.

Movie wise in general, I still feel the same about all the negatives I've already mentioned.
But the things I did like, are really sticking, so that's good I guess ^^

Yes, seen it 4 times now, but also mainly to experience the different viewings they had.
(super screen, 3D)

[KanuTGL]

At this rate it really will be Pride (https://youtu.be/JP5IjQEDtYM), just with more CGI xP
^ I called it, didn't I? I freaking called it :idiot:

Man, I've been trying so hard not to hate this movie since it came out, but the more time I spend thinking about it, the more angry and bitter I get.

This could have been good. This could have been so good. All the fancypants tech is there - they could have made a stunning, colourful, expressive epic, and they chose not to. I will never forgive Jon Favreau for his utter idiocy and will not watch another of his movies again. This mess is all his fault. Because the more concept art for TLK'19 I see, the angrier I get. Everything is in there - the realistic expressiveness, the lighting, the colour, the soul. And in the final product they have chosen to take all of that away. I just cannot wrap my head around why someone would make such a completely moronic, harebrained decision. They picked shiny technology over what actually matters and I am getting so sick and so tired of this trend. If I hear another "But it was so pretty and photorealiiistiiiic (and that's good enough 8DD)" I'm gonna lose my freaking mind.

I also have many of the same issues that have been mentioned here - off story beats, Simba and Nala's reunion being extremely rushed, CYFtLT in daylight, Beyoncé's unfitting song, etc etc. There was one time I physically cringed in my seat, and that was Simba's flashback at the end when Scar confesses. Oh my goodness that was embarrassing @__@ And there were many times that I only knew what the characters were supposed to be feeling because I know the original movie, because I sure couldn't see it in this version. They talk about body language? What body language?

A pale, soulless and colourless copy, that's what this is.

*deep breath*

Now that I got that out of my system, there were a few things I liked too :ayecapn:

The cues they picked from Broadway and fanfics to expand the story were cool, the music is still amazing and John Oliver makes the best Zazu I have ever seen. I also thought Shenzi was awesome (kudos to her animation crew for managing to sneak just a tiny bit of expressiveness into her) <3

But, what I really like the most isn't the movie itself but what's happening around it. The communities reconnecting. For example, I've seen several old faces pop back into TLKFAA lately thanks to this film and that is amazing. The nice new merch is a plus too :P

[nathalie]

Breathe, Kanu, breathe ... ;)

It seems like with every review we see, the negatives and postives keep being the same.
Having it seen multiple times now, haven't changed any of my views on the negatives things when I saw it the first time round.

I think obviously we are more critical, and since the board is filled with drawings artists themselves, it's different then when you just open a facebook page, where "regular people" (so to say) are, and say it's absoluty brilliant! As they don't really care about the things that we care about.

Someone posted "I'm baffled as to why so many people don't like it".
To which I said "I'm baffled as to why so many love it".
:p

[cleargreenwater]

I think most of us have kinda been trying to be delicate when it comes to reviewing the movie, too, in case someone here did love it, til Kanu took the bull by the horns :lol: Tell us how you really feel, LOL.

[Aphelion]

^ I called it, didn't I? I freaking called it :idiot:

Man, I've been trying so hard not to hate this movie since it came out, but the more time I spend thinking about it, the more angry and bitter I get.

This could have been good. This could have been so good. All the fancypants tech is there - they could have made a stunning, colourful, expressive epic, and they chose not to. I will never forgive Jon Favreau for his utter idiocy and will not watch another of his movies again. This mess is all his fault. Because the more concept art for TLK'19 I see, the angrier I get. Everything is in there - the realistic expressiveness, the lighting, the colour, the soul. And in the final product they have chosen to take all of that away. I just cannot wrap my head around why someone would make such a completely moronic, harebrained decision. They picked shiny technology over what actually matters and I am getting so sick and so tired of this trend. If I hear another "But it was so pretty and photorealiiistiiiic (and that's good enough 8DD)" I'm gonna lose my freaking mind.

I also have many of the same issues that have been mentioned here - off story beats, Simba and Nala's reunion being extremely rushed, CYFtLT in daylight, Beyoncé's unfitting song, etc etc. There was one time I physically cringed in my seat, and that was Simba's flashback at the end when Scar confesses. Oh my goodness that was embarrassing @__@ And there were many times that I only knew what the characters were supposed to be feeling because I know the original movie, because I sure couldn't see it in this version. They talk about body language? What body language?

A pale, soulless and colourless copy, that's what this is.


I've not yet seen the film (I know, spoilers, bad me! -_-)

But this is exactly what I was afraid of. As soon as Disney started making these "live action" remakes of all their films, I knew that they'd be remaking TLK at some point, but I really hoped that they wouldn't, because I knew that it'd just be a soulless, low effort, cash grab and that to me seems very disrespectful to Disney's heritage.

I will get round to seeing it eventually, it is still The Lion King after all, and I may yet be surprised, but from the sounds of things it is pretty much exactly what I feared it would be.

[Amaryllis]

Okay so I've been enjoying reading a few of the reviews on the Lea facebook page and I've been itching to write my own. Mostly because everyone around me (family and stuff) heckle me with questions and my opinion on the new film because they know I love TLK.

First things first:
- Why a remake? I get the main reason: new generation to influence with a beautiful movie, but TLK has had so many special re-releases over the years compared to other Disney movies that I'm just like "meh..". Can't deny that the graphics are beautiful but it did not make up for any of my dissapointments.

- My biggest pet peeve was the mixed use of original/non-original voice actors. WHY oh WHY not "force" all of the living original voice actors to return for the remake?! It would have made it much, much better for me. Every time Mufasa spoke I was just like "yeah, this fits and feels like it's supposed to be". All the other voice just didn't do it for me, except for Seth Rogen whom I did NOT expect to be as funny/good as he was. The timbre in his voice really goes well with Pumbaa so I enjoyed pretty much only his contribution as a non-original.

- Speaking of the voice-acting: Beyonce being cast was not my cup of tea, but I can't deny she's one of the biggest stars around now, and her singing speaks volumes whenever I hear it. Which brings me to my next big no-no: Oversinging the CYFTLT song. Whenever she sang very quietly, slowly and with a softness IT WAS BEAUTIFUL. But then she started over-singing some of the notes in that Christina Aguilera way which I really, really hate. WHYYY??? Would've been much better without all of that showing-off.

- What the hell happened to Shenzi?! The "new" hyena wasn't bad in any way IMO, but-it-just-wasn't-Shenzi. Same thing for Banzai and Ed really, as fas as I'm concerned they failed hugely with the new take on this memorable trio.

- And finally the well-know facial expressions/emotions opinion: If you're going to go with reality, have reality to a max. (which they did very well when it comes to graphics). However, if you're going to have the animals move their mouths to simulate the talking, you could at least have them use more eyebrow movements. That would have helped at least a little bit if you won't add eyebrows to the animals.

So all in all: ditch Beyonce, keep Seth Rogen (and original voice-actors), add a sprinkle more emotion and we would've all accepted the movie a bit more. To top it all off they could have also dedicated a big part of the credits to the crew of the original movie since they really made the story. This movie is pretty much a frame-to-frame remake so give credit where credit is due.


(did I cry though? Absolutely. Any time the movie starts or any song starts I bawl my eyes out, this movie was no exception so I'll give them that..)

[nathalie]

You call it the Cristina Aguilera way, I call it "going all Mariah Carey" haha

Banzai and Ed were completely changed, new names and everything.
The biggest shame is, they took 2 comedians to voice them, and I personally didn't notice that at all.

They could have never forced the original voice actors anyway.
Matthew for example is doing his own thing, doing plays, being on stage, he's in London now for the past few months doing his play, so I doubt he would have had time to do the voice recordings if he wanted to, as he needs rehearsels, and did theater at the time in the US aswel.

The voices from the cubs could have been the adults now, that would have been cool to see. But JTT's voice would not suite adult Simba in any way.
Niketa Calame was at the US world premiere though.

[Leorgathar]

Ah yes, about that Beyonce's overdone, showoff, Christina Aguilera/Mariah Carey style singing... yeah, it made me cringe too xP
And it's not just the singing, it also changes the whole mood of the scene. CYFTLT is supposed to be a calm, soothing song. It's a serenade for lovers, not a national anthem.
It's also why it's supposed to take place during twilight moving towards night (Where's the "sweet caress of twilight"?).

And... this might just be me, I don't know, but I like more the idea that it's an external voice singing and not the characters themselves. In the original movie it's not really Simba and Nala singing the whole song, but rather a sort of narrator voice singing about how they're both feeling. The word "love" may not even be in their minds at that moment, it's just happening to them. They're not telling us in their voices that they're falling in love, they're SHOWING us how they're falling in love with a lovely song in the background about love.

In the 2019 movie, both Simba and Nala are basically screaming it themselves to the audience, "I'm falling in love with this other lion!!!", and it feels like it comes out of nowhere, no build up to it, no expressions to show it, it's just "Yay! I met my friend again! and now we're suddenly in looove!"... only to have a little argument and decide that was all for nothing and part ways before night even begun -.-

[Sadiki]

Quite interesting to see what everyone have thought of the new remake. I have tried to keep all spoilers to minimum for the whole making of it, with just watching the trailers and all and trying to get as authentic normal viewing as you can by being part of the fandom. We saw it a little over week ago on Friday, but as we have had our nephew visiting, I haven't had much time to be on computer so haven't shared any thoughts until now. I will say wont have anything to say about the cast as I grew up and seen the original movie about 800 times and only about dozen in English so the I don't think I'm fit to compare the voice cast.



As first I want to say, the movie is definitely visually impressive, at the times it's even too impressive making it feel like a nature documentary more than a movie. Though I must say as they were going for realism it's actually good they didn't have expressions as that would have probably looked very weird, though of course this did have second problem often complained about which is how poorly they conveyed emotions compared to the original. The statement that they wanted to use more body language to express emotions seems like an excuse too as I didn't really see any of that. My biggest concern going in to this movie was how are they going to be able to replicate the physics of the animals into the scenes, after all, these are 350 to 500lb lions walking around in a Savannah, not to speak of the elephants and such. On that for most parts they failed big time, I could see there was grass which wasn't moving when it should have, dirt wasn't being compressed at all and it just felt like sometimes the animals were not even interacting with the environment at all. Though I had a feeling that is what was going to happen so it didn't take that much away from the movie for me.

The powerful scenes in the movie made me feel conflicted. Firstly I love the fact that they made the relationship with hyenas and Scar more of equal partnership than Scar as a leader, the hyenas definitely were not threatened by Scar in any way. Scar knew if he wanted to ally with hyenas he would have to allow them to roam freely on Pridelands. As for Mufasa's death, yep they pretty much brushed that under the carpet. Mufasa's body falling was not convincing at all, I think they were going for the typical twist that cats have when so they fall on their feet but it just looked weird, don't get me wrong though, shot like that is hard, but if you can't make it look right, they could have shown the fall from the perspective of Mufasa when he realizes what is happening and as he falls or anything else... but not what we got. Also I feel like when Simba found his father lifeless body, they could have stretched the scene a bit more of course while going for realism, getting that powerful effect of Simba's tears is impossible to replicate, but they really should have tried harder after all this is the scene that everyone still remembers today even if they are not fans of the movie or only seen it a few times. It's almost as if they knew they were not going to be able to make it as great and just brushed it off real quick. I did enjoy the way they kind of gave an idea after Simba ran away, how far he actually traveled and also the way Timon and Pumbaa interacted, not sure what to think of the whole cult leader feel they gave, but I guess it was an ok adaptation. Simba and Nala meeting also was fine in my opinion, yeah I guess they should of taken a bit longer to recognize each other, but at the same time, they would probably recognize each other by the scent and Timon and Pumbaa being so cynical and with so little regards for circle of life and all, it didn't seem so unbelievable they just shrugged it off. Next I do say I did enjoy the scene where Rafiki leads Simba to Mufasa's ghost in the clouds, not so much of the cloud scene itself. But to be fair, what they did was the only acceptable way in my opinion, after all as I said many times, they're going for realism, getting a lion head shaped cloud that has lip movement... yeah that doesn't look weird at all. So I feel like with frame work they had, it worked, just wasn't powerful like the original. I also really enjoyed the ending, I felt like the scene where Simba was confronting Scar worked very well though I would probably have to see it again in order to go more in detail.

What I probably enjoyed most about the whole movie was the added details. So often in these remakes they go... well just that a remake. I know there is people who disagree with me about Dumbo, but in comparison I feel like that was the best out of all as it's so much more original. Am I saying they should have gone original with Lion king... heck no, I don't think that would of worked at all, but it's those little subtle things which got me feeling all fuzzy inside. I loved the first scene after the intro where the little mouse makes it's way to Scar's den, it was in my opinion way better than just running out of a hole and slamming a paw on it. Other such detail was what I already mentioned when Simba made his way to the jungle as it just gave better view on how far he traveled. Also, the path of Simba's mane tuft traveling to Rafiki was very clever way to get the message to Rafiki, though when he received the tuft I wanted to jump out of my seat and yell "DON'T SNIFF IT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE IT HAS BEEN! :gasp: "

What comes to the score, as I don't really understand music too well I don't feel like I can compare it after just one viewing. I felt like it was good, Shairfu kept telling me how she wishes I Just Can't Wait To Be King should have been in vibrant and strange colors, but I liked it that they stayed true to the format. I was a bit disappointed as they didn't include version of Shadowland in the movie, which I felt like would of worked great in the movie, but I guess they didn't want to take it that route. Overall I do feel like the score worked pretty well though CYFTLT was just... NO.

So what do I actually think of the movie then. I enjoyed it. Was it everything I could of hopped for? well to be honest it was more than I hoped as I went in with no expectations. I feel like it did well with the limitations it had, it didn't come anywhere near the original, but I don't think it even should have. It is a good real life adaptation of the story of the lion king and I'm definitely able to forgive and over look the flaws it has... ( Except Mufasa's death... NEVER FORGET! NEVER FORGIVE! ) ... and I will certainly want to watch it a few more times before making my final judgement on it. Also it is not the worst addition to what we been given... YES I'M LOOKING AT YOU TLK PRE-SEQUAL! ( TLK 1 1/2 / 3)



Also, I'm not sure if people were aware that there is build in spoiler wrapping on Vbulletin. to use it just write
[SPOILER = "whatever you want the spoiler button to say" and close it with square bracket

"your story goes here"

when finished
write [/SPOILER and close it with square bracket