B r e x i t t h r e a d

[A Balanced Breakfast]

Here's the place to debate the British Exit. Do you agree with the decision, or disagree?

[nathalie]

There's a few UK members here...

I really don't need to know how they all voted, its a private thing.
As for the other countries, EU or not, not sure how much we can discuss on the matter.

[Guntur]

My only concern is the economic, it was the low down for British Pound at the moment. I've check the exchange rate, I talked to my British friends that the plummeted currency are expected through the exit. I've been reading a lot of backlashes from either of the side and it's like a dog fight to me. Luckily I'm only observed and not getting into the conversation.

[Azerane]

Looking at it from the outside, it's tough to know what the right call was and how things will play out. But for now, I don't think it was a wise move at all.

[A Balanced Breakfast]

IMO, I support the Brexit. Firstly, it was Democracy in action. A tough decision had to be made, a vote was called, and the people did what they thought was right. One side won out over the other, and democracy continues rolling. It's hard to debate that.

Secondly, the EU at the moment is very broken. It is a system which has started to impose laws on all of its member states, regardless of the specific situations or desires of those member states (I'm also looking at the US Federal Government here). For instance, open border policies may feel like a good idea, but in reality, they take away one of the most important powers a nation has: the ability to accept or reject whomever it sees fit.

Thirdly, the EU is honestly starting to grow almost Orwellian in nature. For one thing, it is almost impossible to challenge EU institutions in an EU court of law. The EU, in fact, tends to make decisions independent of the will of the people in general. In many cases, it takes nothing short of a riot to make the EU reconsider a decision, and even then only if you're lucky. Combine that with the fact that the EU is pushing for a single unified military (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary), what good politician, tactician, or general wouldn't use such a massive military force to quench such riots? It may sound like a conspiracy theory at first, but whenever an institution has power, it doesn't tend to want to lose it. In fact, it usually wants to gain more (again, I'm also addressing the US Federal Government here)

Finally, addressing the leave side's arguments, yes, such a move will be temporarily economically damaging. Yes, there will be minor inconveniences when travelling from Britain to the EU. But are such pragmatic arguments what the British people were thinking about when the leave side won? Because in my opinion, the people who voted to leave knew full well of the pragmatic inconveniences they were to face if they got what they wanted. But they saw these as minor speedbumps on the road to securing their sovereignty. To them, it wasn't about the money; it was about the founding ideals of the nation of Britain from the days when the Magna Carta was just drafted. It was about the principles that men fought against Charles I in the English Civil War to secure. It was enough to them to justify a temporary drop in currency value. For sticking to such principles to the end, I have the utmost respect for Britain and their choice.

One last thing to address before this post is over. If the British decision was so unfathomable, why are Italy, the Netherlands, and even France to a slight extent, considering the possibility of leaving (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/frexit-nexit-or-oexit-who-will-be-next-to-leave-the-eu)? If the people of the EU are toying with the idea of leaving in such a way (http://washingtonmonthly.com/2013/05/14/the-european-union-is-getting-more-unpopular-with-europeans/), is the EU really headed for the right direction in the future? I think not. The people who voted for Britain to leave felt that the EU was not the epitome of democracy; rather, they felt that it was democracy digging its own grave. And given the evidence, I think that vision is not too far off from reality.

This isn't to disrespect other Lea Halalela members who don't support the decision. This is just me stating my reasoning. Of course, I love a good debate, so if you want to debate, feel free.

[nathalie]

Wauw ... and all that from a non-EU citizen, haha.
Good points though. It's your own decision if you support it or not.

As a frequent London visitor for the past 10 years, I'm curious to see what future visits will be like.

I still feel that all of us, who don't live in the UK, can't really discuss this thread ... and I haven't seen a UK person in here yet, which they basically don't have to, voting is always a very tricky thing. Usually only 1 out of 10 wants to say who they voted for.

[Vidan]

I don't really have strong thoughts at the moment, but this article is a bit disheartening (even if it's a little amusing): http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/06/24/480949383/britains-google-searches-for-what-is-the-eu-spike-after-brexit-vote

Do a little research before you go to the polls; don't let advertising and word of mouth be the only influence.

[Zomok]

As a Uk citizen I feel like the outcome has just given people something to argue over. In the general community there is definitely a divide between the people who voted for either remain or leave.

My opinion - it'll be fine.

[Guntur]

I read a lot of argument about this on the other forum, I agree with you ABB.

[Sadiki]

I haven't really been following the Brexit before the vote and still not exactly sure what initiate the whole Brexit movement, besides the campaign in election what I believe opposition used as one of the campaign promises that they going to do if they win the election. By what I been collecting is that UK is putting more money in EU than getting back, people are frustrated that they have no control on people moving between UK and other EU countries and British want more control in general over what they are going to do.

After the election there has been a lot of people who have actually just after the fact started to look into what it actually means to leave EU. First of UK wants keep the free trade but limit the immigration and pick and choose the workers they allow outside the UK, which EU has already stated that if UK wants open trade, they have to keep open borders which basically changes nothing for UK as far as immigration goes.

Second, the UK will get to make their own calls, but they may lose Scotland now which they already decided to arrange a new vote for independence to stay in EU and recent pools show that leave UK and stay EU has majority in Scotland. Not sure how Scotland leaving would effect on UK, but I cannot imagine it being profitable out come to the UK.

The biggest benefit I can see for UK is the fact they don't have to throw money at all the "projects" EU has, like Greece fiasco. But I do think it was rather deceiving from them to claim UK puts 350 million pounds in EU every week where the actual estimate is less than 150 million and that they would be putting it towards NHS, which probably got them most of elderly vote by what I read. Now after they voted to leave they have started to claim that they never said all 350 million would go towards NHS, though I understand that it's basic politics to mislead voters in order to get them to vote the way you like and then after it's easy to say " oh we never said that! ".

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7943774.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS89532410.jpg

Where do I stand with all this? I guess I don't really know. I don't even live in EU anymore so I guess it doesn't effect me that much, even if has effects on world economy. I do agree with the statement I read earlier though " We had headache so we shot our legs off. Now we can't move and we still have a headache." which pretty much summons the situation. UK blames EU for all their problems which I do agree are some caused by EU's idiotic decision making, but not all of it. All so the opposition wanted this to happen but now that it looks like they have to be the ones taking care of the negation with EU about the terms, they are freaking out. It's very easy to point fingers at one another, but in the moment when someone calls them out and gives them free hands and say " So what would you do." all of the sudden even the most stood up ones of us will get very quiet. I guess we will all see what this will do in the long run, but as of now I do think the whole Brexit thing has made UK's situation far worse and just further hurt the country instead of giving it new hope, time will tell.

[ThiagoPE]

For my perspective, I think it was a bad move and I really ask myself if there were no immigration problem, the result would be the same.

Recently I traveled to Argentina, and for who don't know, there is a thing called "Mercosul" that in near future, wants to make (most of) South America as European union, with common laws, common currency, and a free-moving zone. The very first step, which is making a standard for license plates of cars is currently being made. When I arrived there i saw so much Brazilians there that sometimes we didn't even perceive we are out of Brazil.

Even we being a so different countries, I think we can discuss our differences and make a common sense. I still believe that United, still is the best way.

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[Lweek]

For me UK leave is bad news. I like UK a lot. I already lived there several months and want eventually return to stay another months or years. I even have family members with UK citizenship who will have more troubles because their parents live in Czech republic.

However from more general point of view. Brexit campaign was build upon false claims. For example:

1. they say that UK gives more than gets. It's massive bullshit. UK get free access to european market. Now they will have to pay for it and it will be not a funny money.
2. they say that UK have to accept bad EU regulations. Well they will have to accept them anyway if they want to trade with EU. Huge Duh!
3. they say that they have no control over immigration. Pardon? UK is one of the countries with most secured borders from whole EU. UK economy hugely profits from EU migrants. There will be no change for arabian or indian people so where is the point?

Situation is same in whole EU. People are badly informed about what EU is and what it does. They only listen to short informations mostly about bad things. If there is something that needs to be improved it is better education about EU ... and it needs to be done as soon as possible.

[nathalie]

I love these discussions everywhere, haha.

The immagration thing has more to do with Syria I think, then with anything else lately.

Lets just wait and see what the parlement does, because they can still turn it around. Then, you can discuss :p

[ThiagoPE]

I liked a lot lweek opinion.
Tô me, in short, the main subject of this voting was the immigration. A punctual problem. In a few years, the UK (if it still exists as UK, as in my opinions, Scotland will leave uk, and can be followed by others), Will know the s*** it done...

Anyway, the next subject we will talk here will be trump election in united states and the c*** he will do. Take note for the future.

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[Guntur]

while I have a feeling that they might reconsider but I doubt that will happen. Until the next government will decide what best for both EU and UK about all of the concerning subjects.

But Labour's Shadow government resigned does scares me as hell.

[Lweek]

I feel sorry for Cameron leaved his post today. He was great PM. Probably only PM that traveled in public flights instead of using national flight service.
:simbabiggrin: