Moderator Approval Ratings...

[unregistered user]

Before I begint his post, I want to say that I know there is already a thread just like this one. However since this is a question that can easily change people's opinions over time, it has been remade.

What better time to state how one feels about the mods thent he beginning of a new year?

So, by all means let us know what we're doing right and wrong in your opinion. Feel free to give suggestions for improvement on our part, and feel free to offer up any suggestions for improvement to the forum that we might be able to carry out.

So.. without further blabbing from me.. how do you feel about the moderator, and administrator staff here at Lea Halalela?

[Simbaspirit]

the "staff" are great!

[unregistered user]

Great Job, No one perfect I suppose :idiot: ;)

[Simbaspirit]

exept for me:irule:

[Tiikeri]

They're ok I guess

[unregistered user]

i think you do a good job:E

[unregistered user]

I've never been good with authority. It's just me. I'll say that things are doing well here, but I also know there is alot of things going on behind the cutrain that I don't want to know about.

You asked for my opinion so I'll say it, and don't be afraid to strike back at me either.
I don't know everything, I'm your average customer here at leahalalela.
I do know some information that I'm not going to go blabbing about the world here as to brand everyone.

I personaly do not prefer the administrative section here at lea. I've given it time, understanding, patience. Though they've done nothing to me, it's for other reasons I resent most of them.
Not everyone is perfect, I truly understand that but for a moderation team you have to be good. I think it could be better, and with the same opinion, it could be worse.

I'm not truly fond of leahalalela anymore. I've been offended by it so many times. Alot of the morals here just really make me think, is it really worth hanging around?

No, it sure as hell is not.
This has to do with the moderation staff as well as lea in itself.

You may ask, Well you've certainly said we are wrong so what the hell is it that makes us wrong?

Some of the MODS I feel were choosen in spite of other people here at this forum.
Some have had their job for far too long.
Some are biased in their decisions.

Now I'll say it again NO ONE is perfect, and when I say some I am NOT branding the Moderation Team as a whole.
I truly think bad things are going here.
I do not trust the Moderation Team as a whole but there are individuals inside it I could remain sound on.

Nobody need care that I'm dissappearing from LEA, it's the net. I do have a life, as do we all.
This is just a forum but none the less there are real people here with real feelings. Above anything that's what matters.

There's my 2 Cents, now fire in the hole comrades.

[nathalie]

If people have problems with me, or any other mod, why can't it be solved in between those persons, or pointed out in some way.

If Nuka didn't made this thread, the mod team would probably still be thinking they are doing a splendid job (ok, "splendid" is maybe a little over the top, but I think you know what I mean?), while (maybe) most of the people here think that we aren't doing it good.

[Juniper]

In all honesty, I think a few of the staff members are not doing very well at all. A few, whom I will not mention because they know who they are (and if they don't, I would be happy to contact them in PM in a mature and non-aggressive manner), put their own personal agendas or biases against members before their job to keep order on the forum. It's no secret that I'm not liked too much by a select few of the higher-ups, whether they care to acknowledge that or not, for reasons that I think are completely unjustified. I think a few of the staff are too emotional, too quick to jump to conclusions, too easily swayed by bias, and unable to let things that happened in the past stay in the past.

I have lost almost all hope for the situation with some of these staff members improving, so I asked Mufasa to delete this account; clearly that has not happened, though I think I may have been a bit... rushed... in coming to that decision and most likely would not have asked him in the first place having thought about it. Regardless, I think that the best way for this problem to be resolved would be to make the moderators' forum viewable, but not postable, by the public members so that we know what exactly goes on in times of... distress. If that is not possible, for whatever reason, then I think there should be a moderator and admin "log" that tells major conversations regarding the forum and major actions taken therein and that also tells who did what.

I also think it's important to note that no one is perfect and can't be held to those standards, and that includes any of the moderating staff; there's going to be bad decisions at some point, that's an unavoidable fact of life. Thus, not a single staff member is either perfect or a complete failure, they're just people doing what people do; though I do think there's room for improvement for some of the staff.

None of that is based off a personal grudge that I have against anyone in particular; I try as much as humanly possible to not hold grudges against people. I do not consider any of my comments to be an attack upon any individual but a constructive, though harsh, comment upon their performance as a staff member. I have been careful not to mention anyone in particular because I don't think that it is appropriate to be spewing out names in public. I do also realize that this may make a few people angry nontheless, which is I consider an unavoidable consequence of an honest opinion, and more importantly, an opinion that I think needs stated. So, in the event that I do offend someone, I do not apologize and I will not adjust my post, because I have done nothing to offend anyone but state an honest opinion as maturely as possible. All in all, I give the staff a rating of a two stars.

[Aurelian]

Well, I'm sorry to se you go, Tora. Sorry if I did anything to offend you, though I have no clue what...


Originally posted by Utora

Some of the MODS I feel were choosen in spite of other people here at this forum.
Some have had their job for far too long.
Some are biased in their decisions.


As a forum member, and not a mod, I do agree with some of Utora's points. First off, I don't think it would be fair to hold Sharifu, Fuzzy, or Ghalati acountable for anything, as they are incapasitated beyond their controle. However, there are a few other now inactive mods that I have to question. I do not understand why Ngtuny and STM are still mods.

In the whole time I have been in Lea, I have seen Ngt very little. His last appearence was over a month ago. If there is somthing I don't know about, then please let me know. Otherwise, I believe he needs to be removed. A person who doesn't want to do their job while they can doesn't deserve to keep it.

This is somting that I believe the regs of Lea were not made aware of, but STM left Lea last month for his move, he said he might not come back because of how the forum has changed. He simply doesn't like it. I see no reason to believe that he even cares about careing for Lea anymore. This is not sombody I want to see in the mod staff.

That is just my opinion, though. Beynd that, I feel the mod staff is doing a great job.


Now I'll say it again NO ONE is perfect, and when I say some I am NOT branding the Moderation Team as a whole.I truly think bad things are going here.
I do not trust the Moderation Team as a whole but there are individuals inside it I could remain sound on.

I would honestly be surprised if sombody was actually happy with every single mod in Lea. That would be a long shot, though. There is always going to be the one or two athourity figures you don't like. Somtimes, you just have to learn to get along with them.


but I also know there is alot of things going on behind the cutrain that I don't want to know about.

If you are talking about The Promontory, you would be surprised. That forum gets less traffic then The Timone & Pumba forum. In fact, I don't think anybody has been in there since well before Christmas. If there is anything going on "beyond the scenes", then I don't know anything about it.

Lastly, if ANYBODY has a problem with me, don't hesitate to PM me, or even catch me on IM.(All of which can be found in my profile). I want to know what mistakes I make, so I can learn to do better.

[unregistered user]

I guess if the mods or member have problem with each other they need to chat Privately like pntbll said. I mean just don't spark the flame to the others when the mods and member have a problem.

I don't have any problem with the mods right now if the mods do have a problem with me just try to Private me and we try to work things out.

[Juniper]

I don't think this should be held privately, I do think that naming people off isn't appropriate though, not until they've been given a non-aggressive chance to be giving some advice and hopefully improve in areas that they're lacking in.

I think this is definately a chance for a member to voice an opinion about the moderating staff's performance though, whether they (the person giving the opinion) approve or disapprove and by all means those opinions should not be kept private.

[unregistered user]

I guess my answer is on above post.^

[unregistered user]

I made this post because I remembered a similar thread being made around the same time last year (at least i think it was around the same time).

And the moderating staff should always listen to what the members are saying, after all we are working ont heir behalf, it would be illogical and just plain silly to pay no attention to them.

That said, as Utora stated there are real people behind these screens with real feelings. And while I personally and I believe the other mods as well accept constructive criticism, please leave it at that, as we have feelings as well. The active mods do their best, that much I do know.

I believe there is always room for improvement and would like to know exactly what we can do to make it better.

Though I count Ngatuny and STM as good dear friends of mine, I must agree that they haven't really been active lately, not that a good mod is a person who is constantly active. A good mod is a person who is responsible, not afraid to take action when needed, doesn't think themselves higher than anyone else in the forum, but also doesn't abuse the priviledge they've been offered. At least that's my definition..

I personally am very happy that members have come forward to say what the mods and admins need to know. I am sorry to see you go though Utora. The whole point of this thread is to help make Lea a better place to be in. I wish you farewell though if you have decided to leave, and hope that I have not offended you, for I haven't meant to. If so I wish you'd tell me what I did so we could sort it out.

And with that said.. any other suggestions?

[lion_roog]

I agree that non active Mods should be replaced...except those who have mentioned their absence for these extended periods of time, or the ones who we know must deal with things outside this forum. Maybe a temporary mod for those people?

[unregistered user]

It is not because of this thread I leave. I have been withdrawing myself for quite the time now.

I am now announcing it, so to say, at this moment.
I know the MODS have feelings, as we do, but I feel that sometimes that doesn't always matter to them but instead it is their job that comes first. The point of their job it so maintain order and peace here at Lea.

I think now those two words have been twisted alltogether into a COMPLETE different meaning.

For that and many many other reasons do I go.
I will not point out names, that is not my intention.
I will point out my intentions though. My intention for posting my opinion, is to make known that something here is not right. Some are hurting because of things going on that we do not know about. Some of it may be personal between friends, but I don't think it's that anymore.
However, it does have to do with the Moderation Team of this forum.

[Aurelian]

Though I count Ngatuny and STM as good dear friends of mine, I must agree that they haven't really been active lately, not that a good mod is a person who is constantly active. A good mod is a person who is responsible, not afraid to take action when needed, doesn't think themselves higher than anyone else in the forum, but also doesn't abuse the priviledge they've been offered. At least that's my definition..

And how does one take respocibility for somthing they are unaware of because of there coninueing absence? Nothing personal against STM or Ngatuny, since I really don't know them, but you can't do a job if your not present. Quite frankly, I know that people will say to just leave them, and they can do what they can when they pop in. I personally think it makes the whole administrative group, and Lea as a whole, look bad, when we don't keep the leadesr up-to-date. Also, I'm not sure they really need replacing. We have Nathalie, Sonique, Vidan, Simba 04', Nuka, myself, Azerane, and Nephilim who are quite active. This group pretty much covers all the grounds. Some mods may seem more active on a daily basis, but some just do their work quietly. I take a more active approach, and sometimes even do things without consulting anybody else, although never anything that would effect any person. I know that another mod confessed that he is more comfortable watching passivly, and alerting other mods when somting is up, so they can take action instead.


I know the MODS have feelings, as we do, but I feel that sometimes that doesn't always matter to them but instead it is their job that comes first. The point of their job it so maintain order and peace here at Lea.

Quite true, Utora. If I have to hurt the feelings of someone who randomly joins Lea and falames people, to keep them from doing again, I will. However, I will always put my freinds before a webpage. Unlike the members of the forum, the forum itself does not have feelings.

[This Land]

Overall i think the Mods etc, are pretty good. There are somtimes where i think they have been to harsh or unfair but as with every has said , i dont want to name and shame people.

What i think the problem is that since people are mods, they think they are bigger and better (thats the only way i could put it), Than other Lea members, so hence their attitude towards other people have changed ever so slightly but you do notice it.

But hey, thats what i think. Overall the mods do try their best to keep things under control and do a great job, all im pionting out is they somtimes go over the top a little. Most Mods on Lea are great and cant do a better job.

I rate ***

[unregistered user]

I believe they should be replaced Roq, since Vidan and I can get busy and not be able to check Lea as much as we should sometimes. I also think that Boos needs someone to replace his now vacant spot as well.

To answer your question though Roq. When bad things happen at the forum and I haven't been very active, I would receive emails from concerned members. For the most part, not to brag but it's the truth, I was the one who responded to these emails. So a less active mod could in fact still be effective.

However, that shouldn't be the case, the mod staff should be generally active, and I do apologize for my own personal absense from Lea, but school and life definately come first.

I think we should talk to STM and Ngatuny about their absence, I think they should be informed at the very least.

[Vidan]

I haven't received any e-mails or PM's from concerned members lately. :thinks: Feel free to contact me if there are any problems, personal disputes, or otherwise.

Lately I seem to be going for the more behind-the-scenes approach, but I'm always watching, and listening. :evilgrin:

[starionwolf]

When I saw the word ratings I thought about Y, G, PG, PG-13. lol

Leah has moderators? Where? I hardly notice them because the act like typical Lion King fans. lol They do their job seriously.

I like the way they moderate the forum.

Who are the moderators? I'll go look for the list. The only person I know is Mufasa. :D

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Vidan

Lately I seem to be going for the more behind-the-scenes approach, but I'm always watching, and listening. :evilgrin:

So it is you who is the CIA of Lea..:gasp:...I like having friends in high places...:D

Maybe more Mods should be made because there will be times when a mod or a couple mods may not be able to check in on Lea and all...via computer problems, school, et cetra...I mean, life happens and you have to deal with it. With more Mods we will make sure to always have enough.

I haven't really seen any malicious modding from any Moderator. You guys are doing a good job in my opinion.

[Ngatuny]

This thread has been brought to my attention, and I had been thinking of resigning my position as a mod since life has gotten a bit hectic lately but my dedication to Lea will not go away or will I be offended if I'm taken off the mod team.

I want to thank Mufasa for trusting in me when the first mods were appointed and I'm happy to have served this great community. I also agree with pntbll248 that mod duties should be carried independently from personal feelings and animosities with other members.

I hope I can return to my regular everyday or almost everyday presence here at Lea. I leave the decision of whether or not I should remain a mod to the members here.

I hope that I haven't offended anyone here, and if I have I sincerely apologize.

[Prince Simba]

I must say that at times, I have been rather upset with the moderation team (or lack thereof). I believe that it is important for all of the moderators to be active and fair.

First off, I think that for a long time there has been a serious lack of order, which the moderators could help sort out. And I'm not saying that everything needs to be perfect or anything and problems with spam and such seem to be much better than back when I was active more often.

I'd like to point out the following:
Many of the moderators are inactive or just aren't active enough.
Some moderators have made biased rulings in the past.
A few moderators have been appointed because of popularity instead of qualifications.

I highly suggest removing the moderators who aren't very active and have them replaced with more active members.

Also, to whoever chooses new moderators, the determining factor should really just be qualifications. It doesn't matter when the member joined, just that they know what's going on and can do their job.

I think that our forum administrators (namely Mufasa and Sarabi) might want to come around here and maybe post once in awhile, to show that they still have an interest in their forum.

I don't have any more to say that can be said here.

Cheers.

[Aurelian]

Well, seems like the biggest thing brought up here is inactive mods. Ngatny has spoken, and I believe Nuka is trying to reach STM. I fully expect STM to resign willingly as he was very unhappy last I seen him.

The question is what to do about Sharifu, Fuzzy, and Ghalati.

Sharifu was here earlier, and does manage to check in once or twice a week. She is semi-active due to loss of internet on her computer.

Fuzzy is still trying to work out his living position, and may not be back regularly for awhile. He does check in once every other week or so for small bits of time.

Ghalati is out indefinatly dealing with severe family problems. As bad as I feel to say it, I do not expect him back anytime soon, if at all.

Chosing new mods will come layter, when we can come up with a peaceful and non-hurtful way of doing so.

PS, I am not entirely sure what you mean by "order". Do you mean forum organization? That is somthing alwasy being worked on. That was one of the main reason the Mirage was created. We can't have 100 different forums, but we are always open to ideas. I noticed This Land's TLKoB forum idea. While we don't really have room for a forum for every aspect of TLK, maybe Circle of Life could be seperated into two forums, one for the actuall animated film, and one for other TLK stuff such as TLKoB, books, sightings, music, ect.

[Simbaspirit]

sounds good to me.:cheese:

[Prince Simba]

Roquivo, I was referring to a more general selection of things including off-topic posts, inappropriate topics, etc.

And, just in case the question is raised, there is really no way anybody can expect the mods to catch everything.

[lion_roog]

Sharifu will be on more often once her Dad gets back from Florida, plus I think STM is with her. Her dad took the laptop with Internet access, so she has to use the school computers...problem with that was she has been on winter break for the last two weeks.

And I think the Lea's most popular sub forum needs to be divide and made organized...and that's Scar's Lair...

[Simba '04]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
I'd like to point out the following:
Many of the moderators are inactive or just aren't active enough.
-----
A few moderators have been appointed because of popularity instead of qualifications.
-----
I think that our forum administrators (namely Mufasa and Sarabi) might want to come around here and maybe post once in awhile, to show that they still have an interest in their forum...

*sigh* I've finally decided to post in this topic thread. PS, listen dude, Mufasa and Sarabi are still interested in this forum but you have to realize that they are adults living on their own working full time jobs. Did you know that Mufasa has been pulling in 60 hour weeks? What time does he have to come to this forum eh? Be thankful that he is providing a forum for the TLK community to be united. I was not appointed a moderator because of my popularity, if it had been based completely on popularity when the first moderators were chosen, I would have definitely not been one of them. I requested to be a moderator a long time ago, but Mufasa wasn't interested at the time. As time went on I started helping Mufasa moderate the forum by sending him pm's of what was going on and things that I had noticed that were breaking the rules or just wrong. Finally when the forum started getting really big he requested several members to become moderators and I was one of the ones that he had chosen and I beleive it was not on popularity for my part, but because I had helped him out so much. I try my best to be as active as I can be as a moderator. As Roquivo mentioned one of the mod's preffered to point things out instead of taking direct action, that would be me. If I see something that isn't right I will post it in one of the admin. topics. If I receive a pm or a reported post, I always take action asap. I don't have the time to read over every single post here but I do take immediate action when I'm alerted. Lea is not the first forum that I have been a moderator for, nor do I expect it to be the last. I've been a moderator for a forum that has more members there then we have total posts here, so I have some expierence with what to do in most scenarios here. Just kind of funny that no one ever complained about the moderating staff there. As Woes of Folly said, he hasn't been receiving any pm's about any problems with the staff, nor have I. I'm not very impressed with the way everyone is tearing down the mod. staff here. I beleive it is an act of jealousy, but hey, thats just me. Yes I agree that all of the mod's can find some room for improvement, but you have to realize that these people don't live on the internet, we all have our own lives to live and can't let our lives be controlled by a forum. I can't thank Mufasa enough for him allowing me to be a moderator and I've tried my best to not let him down in his decision. I've always enjoyed being a moderator at other forums and so when I had the chance here, of course I jumped right on it. I haven't made the smartest decisions here and I've made some of the staff upset by accident, buy hey...I'm not perfect, I can't walk on water and neither can anyone else here. I beleive that it is time that we do have a moderator review to see who is going to go and who is going to stay. I do beleive that STM, aeRo, and LKD do need to go, great friends of mine that I will never forget, but being a moderator is a serious duty and can not be toyed around with. If someone is going to be a moderator at a forum, then they should be quite active. I've requested that Mufasa remove my moderator powers because I wasn't very active at one time, but he still allowed for me to be a mod. and thus why I'm trying to be more active. I have seen the staff here preform very quickly on several instances and I'm quite satisified with the staff here, some do need to be more active and some gotta go, but for the most part we have a great team and really don't see the need for any more moderators at this time, especially with Nathalie being a super mod. :idiot: she has done a wonderful job so far and I'm now glad she was chosen to be a super moderator. I've been watching all of the moderators here and I could point out names and tell you what they are doing, but I do not beleive that would be appropriate for this thread and really I have no room to talk considering I'm far from being the best moderator here, heh.

I did not make this post to point the finger at anyone or to make anyone upset. If you are offended by what I have said, then you do not know who I am nor do you know my standards. I do request that everyone take a deep breath before making another post in this thread. Realize that you are talking to other real people that are just like you, TLK fanatics, I mean why else would you be here? If you want to make a flame war or harass other members, then I ask that you leave and you have no business here.
Utora, the moderators here do I have feelings, especially me. Are you really going to leave a forum that you see needs help? Did you really mean what you said in that e-mail? Sorry for talking to you this way but if you are going to make a post making a threat at me as a moderator then I do beleive it is fair that I state my opinion in front of everyone as well. I will no threaten you back, as a Christian we should never make an attack toward someone else. We should be Christ like in our lives and be willing to forgive as Christ has forgiven. Utora, if you are offended, then you should let the person that offended you know that they have offended you and then forgive them.



Matthew 18:15-22
15 ? Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 ? Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

[unregistered user]

Let's see... There's full-time mods, full-time members / part-time mods, part-time members, and all that pizazz.

All the mods, whether they're here partially or fully can do an equal job nonetheless...

They've done an excellent job, whether they have done a little or a lot. Some may think of us as being biased, self-elected, and maybe even minuscule in some decisions. Are we really that bad?

The truth is we're doing our best, as aforementioned. Perhaps we're doing too much of our best or not, I dunno (overexertion ?).

But it's good to get feedback (good and bad), because it helps us to better understand the situation at best.

"A good mod is a person who is responsible, not afraid to take action when needed, doesn't think themselves higher than anyone else in the forum, but also doesn't abuse the priviledge they've been offered." - Ravoc *iFrames*

Let's all try and lead by good example. Follow in the footsteps of good Disciples.

I still think we could use a few more moderators. But you don't have to be a moderator to help each other out when it comes to hierarchal paneling.

You know we may not be as tightly fit as we should be, but we're doing better than most.

All comments are appreciated, you-all . . . = )

[Prince Simba]

'04, I'm not going to try to quote that extremely long post.

I'd first like to mention that most of the things I mentioned only have to do with a small number of mods in a few past scenarios; none of which involve you. You've done a great job.

Also, I'd like to say that I was a little harsh when I mentioned Mufasa and Sarabi. I realize they both have jobs, but surely there is an hour or half an hour of free time somewhere. I don't know.

Last thing: I am in no way jealous of the mod. staff. Were I offered a position, I would probably turn it down. Mainly due to the restraints of time upon my life, but also because I'm not very nice. I say what I think, and I seem to do that more often when I think badly of something.

So, in order to apologize, I guess. I'd like to mention some of the things this mod. team has done right.

- You guys are quick to respond to reported posts
- All of the mods are friendly
- Most of the time you include the community on your decisions (like voting and stuff)
- Nobody is too strict, which makes life easier

So, sorry to anybody I might've offended. I respect you guys a lot (and not just because you're moderators).

Cheers.

[Simbaspirit]

nice of you to apologize, PS:cheese:

[2 Die FR]

In my experience I haven't had any problems with the moderators or the way the forum is being handled in general. I've watched threads get closed for justifiable reasons, I've gotten reminded more than once by Nathalie that my banner size is too big (and of course I fixed that right away:cheese:), and I know that there are lots of things that I don't see that are going on, and that's a good thing, since in the smoothest forums the presence of the moderators shouldn't be all that noticeable. I've watched the forum go through phases where randomness was a problem (during which I decided to stay away from Lea), and since then that seems to have been figured out, whether of its own accord or by the moderator's guidance, I'm not sure, but I bet the mods had a lot to do with it.

I don't have a problem with Mufasa and Sarabi being gone for lengths of time because I know they have a life outside of the Internet and, as aforely mentioned, the remaining mods have things very well under control, IMO. And if there are some inactives, like Ngatuny, well you can take away their mod privileges if that makes you feel better, but really there isn't much difference between them being an inactive mod and them not being one at all, is there? That would be a problem if there were a shortage of mods, but it doesn't look like we'll be having that problem any time soon.

I voted four stars. Good job mods.

[nathalie]

Why Sharifu isn't here, problems with her PC, internet connections ... She told us that in a thread, that she couldn't be on much in the past month.

Why isn't STM here ... Because he loves Sharifu to death, and for that, he works around the clock to get to her + he also goes to school aswell.
And right now, he is with her in the US.

*EDIT*
Someone asked who the mods are ...
Check out the link on the main page, bottom right ;)
"forum leaders (http://www.leahalalela.com/showgroups.php?s=)"

Or, some mods have that sig in their signature.

[unregistered user]

Indeed, mods do have real life in real world ;). STM and Sharifu is in Cali right now they in a Vacation.

[Aurelian]

Originally posted by nathalie
Why isn't STM here ... Because he loves Sharifu to death, and for that, he works around the clock to get to her + he also goes to school aswell.
And right now, he is with her in the US.


Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
ok guys I am takeing another break, even I haven't been too active before either.ike quite a few knows I will be going to CA from December 14th to 5th january but that is not the only reason I am takeing a break. Sinse all the old threads got deleted ( older then 450 days ) I wasn't feeling sad about it at first, but now I do. I just memories all those moments when there wasn't too much randomness on this board and when everyone knew each other, and had no popularity contests. anyways after spring 2004 spam and randomness has just increasing which is one of the reason I don't come on too often. I hate finding randomness and threads that make no sense at all like 95% of time I browse this forum, so I don't think it was good idea to delete all the history of Lea, especially I don't think you Sonique should have done it sinse you kind of deleted all the threads before you joined, but no hard feelings from that you did.anyways I gonna be also busy, but also I know I can find better use for my time then come online and read randomness which make no sense at all. You all can still get hold of me on MSN or Yahoo messenger if you need to and I do come here if there is a problem going on.
I am not blameing anyone for that what this forum have turn into and sinse last time it was about to break in a part when we started to try to change it so I don't start doing it. Just gonna take a bit over a month break and leave it there. And I prmise to be back sometime, I have made a promise for couple of people on lea that I will never leave this forum and I am not going to break that promise unless something really serious happens... but I will be gone for now on...

Sorry, Nathalie, but I can't let that one slide. We start making excuses and walking around the truth, and nothing gets done. Hey, I spoke to STM a few times, and I know he is a cool guy, but he openluy walked out on us, and not all had to do with moving.

[nathalie]

Forgive me for forgetting a post that has been made a while ago ... :)

But still, the thing I said, was a reason why he was off-line a lot before he even thought of actually leaving.

[Dare]

Wow, things have changed since the last time (http://www.leahalalela.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1920&highlight=mods) we voted on this, hasn't it?

All things considered, the staff is still tolerable (at least to me). Like others have said before, there's always room for improvement and good moderators will recognize that?hubristic mods are unhealthy for a forum.


There are times when I have not liked how certain things were handled. I made my opinion known but could never tell if I was listened to, ignored, and sometimes words have even been put into my mouth and I've been chastised and the subject dropped before even being given an opportunity to explain what I really meant...so I stopped trying to communicate.
I especially didn't appreciate a few select times when I saw moderators say (not in the exact words but it was the gist that I got from what they did say) "sit down and shut up" or ?if you don?t like it, get lost? to both myself and some other forumers when we voiced disagreement with the way certain things were done.
There are times when I thought that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and it makes me wonder about how good communication is amongst the staff.


Those are my problems, the former being the more grating issue.
Of course everyone is subject to poor judgment, mistakes and being emotional from time to time...I just wish such things were handled better by some staff.
As for the communication issue?it could just be a misread on my part, but I don?t know?if it appears that the moderators don?t know what each other is doing, it doesn?t inspire much confidence. :\
*shrugs*

Overall, I think things here are ?ok?, for the time being. Not great, not horrible, but ?ok?.

Oh yes, and for the record, contrary to what '04 believes, the day I'm jealous of a mod here is the day Hell freezes over, the government stops with the taxes, and I dance around in a ruffled pink tutu. In other words, it ain't gonna happen.
:p

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Wicked


Oh yes, and for the record, contrary to what '04 believes, the day I'm jealous of a mod here is the day Hell freezes over, the government stops with the taxes, and I dance around in a ruffled pink tutu. In other words, it ain't gonna happen.
:p [/B]

Yeah, but we can still hope...=D

[Suki]

I'd say good.

I'm sorry Roq, but you are doing good with your new postion as a mod, but you seem to be a little....how can I put this...too defensive.

I still do not get how that one icon I put in my sig (I'm not going to give the link, cuz it'll probably be deleted), that Raven/Robin...thing(I have nothing against those shippers,it is meant as a joke *the icon*), is against the rules for 'innopropriate language and suggestive content' while you see Dan saying 'buggernuts' and 'cock' all the time and Roog has on his gender 'Male...wanna check?'. That is just....odd.(no offense you two, BTW)

EDIT:
Now, I haven't read the rules in a while, so you're surely going to shoot me for this.:lol:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Suki
Roog has on his gender 'Male...wanna check?'. That is just....odd.(no offense you two, BTW)


You forgot my sig, too...:D

[ChildOfThePride]

I didn't get to vote, bah. Here's my opinion.

The only mod I have a problem with (besides the inactive ones) is Nephilim, for what she did to PhantomBPR. She could have put him on ignore, not call him out in front of the entire forum.

[King Simba]

I really have no problem with the current moderators. Like multiple people have said, moderators can get out and enjoy the real world too you know so they have as much right to get out and enjoy theirselves as much as we do.

Anywho, I voted 4 stars--I feel the mods here do a good job in keeping the forum in order and sorting out problems that they/other members come across so good job everyone. :)

Some of the more inactive mods lurk the boards (but don't usually post) so I don't really think that's much of a problem. However, I still feel we could assign some new moderators (temporary if need be) to do the job/s whilst the other mod/s are away or wherever. *shrugs*

[Suki]

Originally posted by lion_roog
You forgot my sig, too...:D

Trust me, would've if I had wanted to. =P

[unregistered user]

Hmm.. the last mod ratings have been quite a while back, further than I originally thought even :E So yeah, I believe it is indeed time we get another rating since it's been over a whole year =P


Originally posted by Wicked
I especially didn't appreciate a few select times when I saw moderators say (not in the exact words but it was the gist that I got from what they did say) "sit down and shut up" or ?if you don?t like it, get lost? to both myself and some other forumers when we voiced disagreement with the way certain things were done.

Of course everyone is subject to poor judgment, mistakes and being emotional from time to time...I just wish such things were handled better by some staff.
As for the communication issue?it could just be a misread on my part, but I don?t know?if it appears that the moderators don?t know what each other is doing, it doesn?t inspire much confidence. :\
*shrugs*

That middle one would be me. And I never did get the chance to apologize for such rude behavior to you and to Sonique as well I believe was the other one, due tot he thread being closed. And yes I know I could've sent a PM or something, but meh.. that just didn't seem right *shrugs* So, I am going to take this chance right here and now to apologize for myself and making an idiot (could use a different word there heh) out of myself on several occasions, letting my emotions overcome my respect for others. That is indeed one of my faults. However,t hat I believe did take place qute a while back, even so, I apologize to both you and Sonique for that. And to anyone else I might've offended in that or other threads.

As for the communication issue, there are some instances that the mods do not inform each other of some of their actions, I believe almost (if not every) mod has done 'something' at sometime without informing the others first. However for the large part we do ask each other first, such as what is appropriate and what isn't for this board before we ask others to change their sigs, avatars, or we edit a post.

The mods and admins all think very, very hard before we ban a member. We try to give them time to change themselves. There are some, like Phantom however, that just plain refused the offer.

Contrary to popular belief, the mods don't sit around int he Promontory and talk trash about everyone else. The only thing we talk about is possible improvements, threats tot the well being of the forum or its members, and which one of us won't be here for a certain amount of time.

If we do talk about you in the Promontory though, you will have already have been notified by us that the mods are paying close attention to you because (enter reason here), and that they'd like you to stop doing (enter problem here). We're not conspiring against any one =P

I just wanted to say that for my fellow mods, and I'm done now :E

[Aurelian]

Originally posted by Suki
I'd say good.

I'm sorry Roq, but you are doing good with your new postion as a mod, but you seem to be a little....how can I put this...too defensive.

I still do not get how that one icon I put in my sig (I'm not going to give the link, cuz it'll probably be deleted), that Raven/Robin...thing(I have nothing against those shippers,it is meant as a joke *the icon*), is against the rules for 'innopropriate language and suggestive content' while you see Dan saying 'buggernuts' and 'cock' all the time and Roog has on his gender 'Male...wanna check?'. That is just....odd.(no offense you two, BTW)


I'm not going to shoot anybody. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and if they feel they were wronged, then by all means confront us. I am glad you questioned my actions, Suki, as it shows you care about the site.

Actually, your sig was reported to me. The way your animations scrolled, I would never have noticed it myself. I know that Roog's siggy is suggestive, but he used it for awhile before I came mod, so I assumed he has OKed it then. As for Dan, I already warned him once. If I do catch him again, he will be dealt with accordingly. You are not the first person I have PMed. That is why I made the reply about cussing in Fuzzy's rules post in this forum.


The only mod I have a problem with (besides the inactive ones) is Nephilim, for what she did to PhantomBPR. She could have put him on ignore, not call him out in front of the entire forum.

The structure of Lea was a mess at the time, and Nephlim did what she had to do to get the forum leaders attention. Yeah, it was a little extreme, but it was nessacery. She could have put him on her ignore list, but that would have been unfair to her. There is absoulutly no reason she, or anybody else, should have to deal with that kind of harrasment in this forum, and it was the mods' job, not her's, to make sure it didn't happen.

[This Land]

That just reminded of somthing that happend about my sig.

A Mod told me to shorten down my Sig because it had too many lines of text, i do understand this and fully took it in and changed my sig accordingly. But there are still members which still has more than 5 lines of text and nothing has been done,
I just feel i was being picked on.

[Simbaspirit]

yeah, i have kinda gotten annoyed by that too. i dont think it has to do with being picked on, but i think that if someones sig is too big, it needs to be taken care of.

[ChildOfThePride]

I understand what you are saying, Roq. However, had this situation been handled by me I would have first placed Phantom on my ignore list, and if I felt uncomfortable after that, odds are I would have emailed Mufasa and Sarabi.

However, that is just me.

[Suki]

Originally posted by Roquivo
I'm not going to shoot anybody. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and if they feel they were wronged, then by all means confront us. I am glad you questioned my actions, Suki, as it shows you care about the site.

Actually, your sig was reported to me. The way your animations scrolled, I would never have noticed it myself. I know that Roog's siggy is suggestive, but he used it for awhile before I came mod, so I assumed he has OKed it then. As for Dan, I already warned him once. If I do catch him again, he will be dealt with accordingly. You are not the first person I have PMed. That is why I made the reply about cussing in Fuzzy's rules post in this forum.


Hmm....I see. But I'm sorry, I am still confused about something.

If it is against the 'rules' that cussing is disaproved, why do I see others cussing as well(i.e. f word)?

[Simbaspirit]

yeah, i do see WT- alot here..

[unregistered user]

No offense at all to you COTP, but i'm curious as to what you would've done if Mufasa and Sarabi never responded?

[Suki]

Also, I must say because of this fourm I learned the f word at age 11. I am still ashamed of this fourm that they would say that for we know little ones come here too at age 11 (or 10, you never know). *holds 'Shame On j00' sign*

EDIT:
Personally, I think we should not allow swearing here. I do not want 11 year olds learning the f word like I did.

[ChildOfThePride]

No offense taken, Nuka.

I would have just put PBPR on my ignore list. Bam. Had the same effect as banning him, I wouldn't have had to edal with his messages.

[Dare]

Originally posted by Nuka

That middle one would be me. And I never did get the chance to apologize for such rude behavior to you and to Sonique as well I believe was the other one, due tot he thread being closed. And yes I know I could've sent a PM or something, but meh.. that just didn't seem right *shrugs* So, I am going to take this chance right here and now to apologize for myself and making an idiot (could use a different word there heh) out of myself on several occasions, letting my emotions overcome my respect for others. That is indeed one of my faults. However,t hat I believe did take place qute a while back, even so, I apologize to both you and Sonique for that. And to anyone else I might've offended in that or other threads.


*chuckles*
Actually, I wasn't even thinking about that once instance...I'd forgotten about it until you just mentioned it.
:lol:
I actually think you DID send me a PM sometime around then, but I've since deleted it. Oh well, no matter and no need to apologize...I'm waaaaaay over it.
:)
But, while we're apologizing, I'd like to apologize too. I realize that I can be quite overly blunt and opinionated and that rattles peeps nerves from time to time. I mean no offense by it.
Well, maybe just a little.
:evilgrin:
just kidding!

As for the whole PhantomBPR thing, that happened when Neph wasn't a moderator...so it that's more of a personal dislike reason as opposed to Neph being a bad/inept moderator, right?

[ChildOfThePride]

What I meant was, if she calls someone out like that, then it says a lot about what she will/is like as a moderator. However, maybe I'm wrong.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Suki
Also, I must say because of this fourm I learned the f word at age 11. I am still ashamed of this fourm that they would say that for we know little ones come here too at age 11 (or 10, you never know). *holds 'Shame On j00' sign*

EDIT:
Personally, I think we should not allow swearing here. I do not want 11 year olds learning the f word like I did.


You should not have been on this forum at that age, you're supposed to be 13 or older according to COPPA (I'm pretty sure this server is hosted in the US or Canada).

But anyways...


COTP, I don't see your point about Phantom. Nephilim is a member in good standing with the forum, she was sexually harrassed by a mean little pervert and she defended herself. If there had been an admin at the time who could have dealt with the situation, then maybe it would have been different; but should'ves, would'ves, and could'ves don't apply to this situation. Besides, I think the forum needs to know when we have a member does something outrageous like that on our forum so that we can be aware and try to avoid that person at all costs. But, for sake of argument, if someone were to quote Phantom and he had made an obscene or sexually harrassing remark, Neph still would have been exposed to that and thus she wouldn't have gained anything by adding him to her ignore list.

[Suki]

Originally posted by pntbll248
You should not have been on this forum at that age, you're supposed to be 13 or older according to COPPA (I'm pretty sure this server is hosted in the US or Canada).


When I was here the first time, no one mentioned that, so, you're on your own.

I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but not all 11 or 12 year olds are from the US or Canada.

[Juniper]

Right, but the server is based in the US or Canada (if my memory serves me correctly), and thus is subject to the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, a federal law shared by Canada and the US to protect children online by basically not allowing them to be online without expressed written permission and guidance by a legal guardian. Hence why you can't post on Livejournal, as you've said before that you're not 13 and can't post there. It's more of a forum problem than your problem. I'm not saying that the forum should ban all 12 and under members, of course, but I am giving a heads up that something may need to be done that would cover the forum's butt in case someone decided to make something of it.

[ChildOfThePride]

If somebody quotes a message by PBPR, then whoever had a problem with it could just go "okay, it's posted by him", and scroll down. That's what I do.

[unregistered user]

I think there's 50-50 about Phantom sexual harrasment,
50 to this post - I mean if Neph doesn't make any action to Phantom he might disturb other people too.
50 on this post - But the action that Neph taken is alittle rush(no offense Neph) but I guess the situation end long ago and take it as a lesson(No sexual Harrasment or harm to another member & must take action alittle more less hummiliated)

ps: But I'm looking forward Pntbll discribe about the actions :)

[Lion King Stu]

Well basicly as far as I'm concerned I'm koolsem with the mods and got no beef against any of them.
As far as them doing there jobs no ones fully perfect but they are doing satisfactry jobs so congratulations there to all of them.
As for the ones that are currecntly inactive eg// STM yeah I'm suprised how they are still under as a mod and it should be straightend out so that we can replace them. Because its stupid to have them still down if they aren't here to do the work when there are many people on this forum who could.

Anyway as far as the Phant thing goes I think we should stop talking about the past because its dead and burried; hes banned from the forum now and its off topic to what the thred is about.

[Juniper]

If you mean the actions to be taken to cover lea's butt, it'll mostly involve adding a terms and agreements page (if there isn't already one) onto the sign-up page on lea saying that you certify that you're 13 years of age or older, and if the person isn't, having a form for them to print out that'll have their parents signature, which can then be copied and faxed or emailed. That's what most sites do.

As for the current members under 13, I'd say that they can be left alone for now, I don't think it'll cause a problem.

[Darkslash]

Hmm... there seems to be many big/unresolved issues at foot here. I wouldn't have guessed there was.

I think that Lea Halalela is fantastically moderated. So four stars, like the Westin hotel!

[nathalie]

I saw some lines about the signatures.

I can't view every single sig out there ... Sometimes other people have to tell me or another mod.
Which is great, in my opinion, because that makes me feel really good that there actually are people out there who do read the rules unlike some others, where you have to say the banner rules 10 times and point out every single thread where they are stated (I believe we have 6).

We're not super people, we can't spot everything :)

[unregistered user]

I think the mods are doing a good job as they can on this board, they are only human and they have not become dispassionate tyranns who complains about every little thing.

Its hard work to try to be liked by everyone while you have to keep order at the same time.

I also think its unecessary to bring up the PBR event again since it was discussed alot back then its in the past and the mod staff got complaints back then, that bridge is crossed in my mind.

and there is no conspiracy going on in the promontory, well atleast it wasnt while i was there :E

and as a avarage member of lea i feel content with what we have right now


This is just my point of view of course and im not attacking or even hinting anything against everybody i just wanted to say my two cents :)

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by This land
That just reminded of somthing that happend about my sig.

A Mod told me to shorten down my Sig because it had too many lines of text, i do understand this and fully took it in and changed my sig accordingly. But there are still members which still has more than 5 lines of text and nothing has been done,
I just feel i was being picked on.

We're really not that pressive when it comes to signature lengths (unless it's a monstrosity of a one <-/-> though we should be; being Rule 1 and all.......).

Unless you're new and/or have a reading incapacity, there's no reason on why you shouldn't be able to follow that rule, really.

Sorry that you felt you were being picked on, but the truth of the matter is, you weren't.

As a matter of a fact, we wouldn't mind others to try and set a simpatico example to the best of their abilities.

:)

[Mushroom]

I think you guys are doing A Ok. I myself havn't seen anything majorly out of order on here in ages, then again I havn't been around for some time.

But ya make me proud, makes me want to become a MOD........*thinks about it* actually scratch that last bit.

[Cleto]

I have no prob with the 'staff' in my books you guys are doing A okay ;)

[Lucy Lioness]

I think the current moderators are fine, I haven't noticed any problems recently, but I haven't been on the site as much in the last couple of months, due to moving house and internet problems. The only thing I have to say about the mods is that I think some of them maybe take things a little too personally. Not mentioning any names, just giving honest feedback. So I don't have a problem with any of the mods, or their decisions, just that some can be a bit too easily offended sometimes.

[Xanahti]

There's room for improvement.
I would never be able to be a mod, since I'm too hot tempered, too rush, and too *****y. I think that if you're given the opportunity to become a mod, you need to be kind of self critical.
Do I fit as a moderator? What are my qualities, what are my disqualities?
Am I being a mod becase I wanna help the forum or my friends?

A mod who look after their friends before everything else is a good friend but a bad mod.
If you accept the offer to become a mod (or if yo ask for it, I don't know how it works), you should understand that at the same time as there is positive things to it, there's negative things to it. And you'll just have to deal with it.
If every mod is going to look after, favorize and protect their own friends we won't be able to have a serious discussion without it getting closed down becase of such loose basis as disagreement.

I'm not saying this is happening, bt someone said something earlier in this thread about putting your friends before an internet site. But your responsibility as a moderator should mean the opposite. At least that's my opinion. If I'm getting it all wrong then tell me.

Just some questions, how are the mods picked? And what qualifies them to be moderators? Are they picked becase they're popular members, or because they make valueable posts?

I'm not trying to bash the mods or insult them, I'm jst curious abot how things work around here.:)

[nathalie]

Mods don't get picked because they are popular, but because the person who picked them think they will do a good job.

Back then when the first group got chosen, there weren't even enough members around to pick out popular ones.

And I don't think I'm really all that popular around here.

[Xinithian]

Originally posted by pntbll248
If you mean the actions to be taken to cover lea's butt, it'll mostly involve adding a terms and agreements page (if there isn't already one) onto the sign-up page on lea saying that you certify that you're 13 years of age or older, and if the person isn't, having a form for them to print out that'll have their parents signature, which can then be copied and faxed or emailed. That's what most sites do. Or, until then, there can be a disclaimer for the General Chat section, since that's the only forum where you'll run into mature content. It should be rated PG-13. The rest of the forums should be all ages, but the general chat section should definetly be rated PG-13.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Xinithian
Or, until then, there can be a disclaimer for the General Chat section, since that's the only forum where you'll run into mature content. It should be rated PG-13. The rest of the forums should be all ages, but the general chat section should definetly be rated PG-13.

That doesn't protect the forum from COPPA laws though, they're put there to basically prevent contact with a minor (especially personally identifiable information, which would include age, name, location, etc...) through any medium on the internet. They're not there to keep children under 13 from accessing crude content, they're there for keep children from accessing virtually any content or communication without a guardian's consent.

[unregistered user]

Here's what I think of the moderation staff; and what we're here to do, this includes myself and Boos...

Not only are we responsible members like yourselves, but we're responsible leaders as well... We're not perfect, we've made mistakes to only improve on them. We try and try again to suite everyone's needs of comfort-level to the best of our ability. We're here not to dictate your actions foresay, but to offer one's peace of mind; with the confines of the simplistic of rules.

We're here not to serve you in any way, only to guide you along a pre-destined path.

We don't always get along with each other, but most of the time we do. We help each other solve problems, basis to basis. We try and settle issues equally (the voting system works quite efficiently).

The moderation staff was picked out by personality, being trustworthy, and most importantly; being wise (that's what I think, neewayz).

I can't think of any other moderation team for a forum board that's as caring and well-grounded as Lea Halalela.

Hey, make the last-half of that entire sentence above for everyone here at LH ....

=)

[Sharifu]

Hmm well... I made a topic about how I wouldn't be able to go online much at all over the past month. I'll try to be on more after this next week, I'd like to, but sometimes I still have problems with my laptop, but at least I can use my dad's laptop sometimes now, since he's back from Florida.

And about STM, Roquivo, STM isn't moving, I don't know why you thought that. Plus STM isn't leaving Lea, he told me many times that he couldn't do that, because Lea has done so much for him. I don't think STM would care if he's a mod or not anymore, I don't really think that's so important to him, but he will come back. Another reason he's not online much recently is because he's here with me, and you all know I couldn't get online much here.

Personally I think things are ok here, this is the best board I've ever been to and I think the mods are doing fine.

[nathalie]

About that "age 13" matter...

If kids wanna join a board, they just lie about there age sometimes if you can't register under 13.

And how are we able to really check if that person is so old that he claims to be?

[Juniper]

It's still the forum's job to ask... that's a law you know... there's no matter of opinion on it. If the server is in the US or Canada, and if someone says something to the webhosting company or the company finds out on their own through random website searches on their server, the forum will be shut down, and frankly, they couldn't care less what anyone on the forum thinks about the law. I mean, there's nothing to argue about... it's the law.

[nathalie]

I know that.

This thing was mentioned before (I believe by you? Or Roquivo. Can't remember).

I thought Sonique answered it, and knew something about it.

[Dare]

I was under the impression that COPPA only pertains to the collecting of personal information of minors?
We had a discussion about that (sort of) back when we were debating about the new Mod vote...Roq brought it up.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Sharifu
And about STM, Roquivo, STM isn't moving, I don't know why you thought that. Plus STM isn't leaving Lea, he told me many times that he couldn't do that, because Lea has done so much for him. I don't think STM would care if he's a mod or not anymore, I don't really think that's so important to him, but he will come back. Another reason he's not online much recently is because he's here with me, and you all know I couldn't get online much here.

Glad that STM isn't leaving Lea, Sharifu. Thanks for the information =)

Edit:

Also, about the 13 years old, that's why there should be one of those 13 year old checks on lea before you join up as Pnt described...

[unregistered user]

COPPA doesn't apply to non-commercial sites. "Commercial" meaning profits - under section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. 45).

[Dare]

Originally posted by SoniqueX
COPPA doesn't apply to non-commercial sites. "Commercial" meaning profits - under section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. 45).

That's what I thought. I'm browsing the FTC site now though.

[Juniper]

Right, but it also applies to online services, and I'm pretty sure an internet forum is considered an online service. I'm sure there's no way to get past the fact that lea is aimed towards children, and thus it would still be a good idea to add a "Are you over the age of 13" page in the sign-up page. Is it that much trouble to go through, adding a two option forum, to risk the entire forum? I mean, hell, I could make that form and it would provide enough safety that, if someone were to say that we violate COPPA, they would most likely give the owner of the server a week or so to shape up, as there'd be some form of effort put into it.

[Dare]

You mean something like this?


Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please press the Agree button at the end of the page. Note: By pressing the button you declare that you are over the age of 13.
If you are 13 or under, please use this registration form.

Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access "this registration form"...it just takes me back to the original "join" screen.

But that text is there when a new user is signing up...it's in the first paragraph.

While we're talking about the forum TOS, however, I'd like to note that the rules and/or policies that the first sign-up paragraph refers to...well, there really aren't any stated there besides one or two things...if the sign-up screen is going to be modified further for COPPA (or whatever), perhaps it would be useful to have the entire Pride Rules listed there as well (that way people can't plead ignorance...not everyone reads Mount Kilimanjaro)

Anyway, I apologize for the segue...just thought I'd mention it while it was on my mind.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Wicked
You mean something like this?



Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access "this registration form"...it just takes me back to the original "join" screen.

But that text is there when a new user is signing up...it's in the first paragraph.

While we're talking about the forum TOS, however, I'd like to note that the rules and/or policies that the first sign-up paragraph refers to...well, there really aren't any stated there besides one or two things...if the sign-up screen is going to be modified further for COPPA (or whatever), perhaps it would be useful to have the entire Pride Rules listed there as well (that way people can't plead ignorance...not everyone reads Mount Kilimanjaro)

Anyway, I apologize for the segue...just thought I'd mention it while it was on my mind.

Yeah, just something simple like that. Actually, that brought up a good point. Maybe there should be a listing of the pride rules, that way, like you said, no one can claim they didn't know the rules. If they still didn't read the rules, then I really feel no sympathy for them, they still agreed to follow the rules.

[unregistered user]

From what I've read from the vBulletin community board. There's an alleged COPPA check box in the Admin's panel. I'm not sure what version of vBulletin that's for. It could be the "If you are 13 or under, please use this registration form." But if it is, like Wicked said, why does it bring you back to where you were?

[Juniper]

Yeah, vBulletin should have it, I know that Invision and phpBB 2 do. As for why it does that, I have no idea.

[unregistered user]

Hmm... maybe I could get ahold of an admin over there. To see if we should have a policy in place. Not that it's an urgency/necessity or anything; but it wouldn't hurt to find out anyway . . .

[Dare]

*scratches her head*

Perhaps I was mistaken...when I logged out and then hit the "use this registration form" in sighn-up, the URL for sign-up changed, but it's too long to post here, lol.
Just click here (http://www.leahalalela.com/register.php?action=signup&who=coppa&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leahalalela.com%2Fmember.php% 3Fs%3D%26action%3Dlogout) to see it. COPPA is mentioned in the URL. It looks just like the regular sign-up only with a funky URL.
Dunno how it works though, since I didn't actually attempt to put an account through it...didn't want to burden the forum with a dummy account, ya know?

[unregistered user]

|^| Umm... *scratches Wicked's head* It still does the same for me (l|nk doesn't work). But if it does work, and COPPA is mentioned in the URL, well... that's great news then... = )

*Added to post and quoted by a Senior Member from vBulletinCB, John...


Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding of COPPA is that if your website is not directed to children under 13 AND you do not knowingly collect info from children under 13 -- then you do not need to use a COPPA website registration process.

This does not mean that COPPA does not apply to your site, the COPPA law applies to all websites based in the US. It's just a matter of compliance.

If your site isn't directed to children under 13 & you do not knowingly collect information from children under 13, you are already in compliance with the COPPA law. (I guess you can also look at this as COPPA not being applicable to your site in this situation.)

If your site IS directed to children under 13 OR you do knowingly collect information from children under 13, then in order to be in compliance with COPPA you must follow whatever procedures are required in the law (obtaining parental consent, the different methods of doing so under differenct circumstances, etc).

Do not misunderstand my statements here as legal advice, this is just my personal understanding of the COPPA law and how it applies. I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble if this is not correct.

- John

And yes, Lea does fall under the category of being non-commercial, basically. However, some confines within could easily change that . . . .

[Dare]

Alrighty, I did some experimentation with various vBulletins, and I attempted registering another username after clicking the alleged registration form for minors...as far as I can tell, it let me register with no problems...no confirmation of parental consent, no nothing. It treated me the same as if I were an adult signing up.

However, on vBulletin Version 3.5.2, when I went to register, it immediately asked for my birth date. When I put in a birthday that said I 10 years old, it immediately brought me to a COPPA disclaimer and said that a parental permission form was required. Now, I don't know if that's a feature that only works for that, or if it's an option that we still have here (it's just not turned on).

Ah, the things one will do to kill time when one is on vacation...*boredboredbored*

[unregistered user]

|^| Well... I'm assuming that's a newer feature. Because I am more than confident that Mufasa would've activated it. Because the "If you are 13 or under, please use this registration form" isn't working (or at least for me it's not / looks the same.....) I'll go ahead and implement privacy procedures in place of that l|nk. ?

[Kovu The Lion]

I think the mods are doing a okay or somewhat, But What I've seen now, Its the mods faults that people leave the forums, am I not right? I do believe it wasn't Prince Simba's or Prince Kovu's argument at a mod for leaving, But Phantom, Now Utora. And a few other Members have left because of judgements of moderators or actions upon them that were "Unfair" or "Unjustified"

I think the moderators as a whole is doing a good job, But a LOT of improvement can be made. And yeah.. I don't really see the point of this thread being open, You've lost a member because of it. Feeling happy now Moderators? I think you know now "how" the public feels about you so yeah.

KTL OUT

~KTL~

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I do believe it wasn't Prince Simba's or Prince Kovu's argument at a mod for leaving, But Phantom, Now Utora.

Okay, It's probaby just me, but I can't understand that sentence :confused: *is stupid*

I just want to make it clear, that Prince Kovu, Jannali and I didn't leave because of anything the mods did.

[unregistered user]

That's a pretty shi*** thing to say, KtL. =' (

[unregistered user]

KTL, if you actually had been reading and paying attention to what has been done and said, you would be well aware that you can't point the finger at the mods for the leaving of those members.

PS just said that Jannali, PK, and himself didn't leave because of that.

If you want to blame the mods for kicking Phantom out though, I'd readily take credit for it since he was a no good jerk. I don't care if people think less or more of me for stating that, but it's the 100% truth. Phantom 'left' because he was a down right, flat out, bad person. And not only did he violate the rules of Lea by boldly stating he refused to follow them several times and his proclaimation was 'anti-mod' or rather, anti-authority basically. Anyway, he also violated the law by sexually harrassing Neph through PM's.

As for Utora, I'm not completely sure, this might be the only one that actually left because of the mods, again I'm not sure.

Still, that's a very mean blow KTL. YOu're entitled toy our opinion though, as are we all.

[Prince Simba]

About the COPPA thing, I have a copy of this version of vB (don't ask) and there are settings for COPPA included.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
About the COPPA thing, I have a copy of this version of vB (don't ask) and there are settings for COPPA included.

Yes, that would help out a lot, PS. Since you know a lot about that jargon. I would get in contact with Mufasa and discuss that with him. = )

[Prince Simba]

The settings are just in the Admin CP. Nathalie might be able to set them up. Doesn't she have access?

Edit: but this would involve everybody who wants to register who's under 13 will have to get their parents to sign a form and then fax/mail it to somebody with Admin CP access before the account will become active. We just have to keep that in mind.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
The settings are just in the Admin CP. Nathalie might be able to set them up. Doesn't she have access?

Honestly, I have no idea what types of access she has. I'm assuming she has all of them...


Originally posted by Prince Simba
Edit: but this would involve everybody who wants to register who's under 13 will have to get their parents to sign a form and then fax/mail it to somebody with Admin CP access before the account will become active. We just have to keep that in mind.

Yes... that'd have to be considered carefully.

[Prince Simba]

Well I would assume that being placed in the Administrator usergroup would give her full access, but vBulletin has a lot of options that can restrict Admin CP access and only allow certain parts like forums & moderators & stuff.

[unregistered user]

So....... I guess privacy procedures then.

:hmm:

[nathalie]

I have all access, as far as I know.

But this board isn't mine.
I am not the one who is paying for it.
Mufasa is, Mufasa made this place.
So about stuff like that, it seems better to me, that you'll contact him.

Since he had to register this board and all that stuff.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I think the mods are doing a okay or somewhat, But What I've seen now, Its the mods faults that people leave the forums, am I not right? I do believe it wasn't Prince Simba's or Prince Kovu's argument at a mod for leaving, But Phantom, Now Utora. And a few other Members have left because of judgements of moderators or actions upon them that were "Unfair" or "Unjustified"

I think the moderators as a whole is doing a good job, But a LOT of improvement can be made. And yeah.. I don't really see the point of this thread being open, You've lost a member because of it. Feeling happy now Moderators? I think you know now "how" the public feels about you so yeah.

KTL OUT

~KTL~

Most situations where people have left its because of other members not because of(us) the mods, maybe the mods could have stopped it as likely as you could stop a freight train going in full speed towards you.

When arguments break out you try to take it easy and not lock to fast because then people will be pissed because they didnt get their say and then we will have a new argument over that and somehow all the blame will go towards the mods.

So i beg you to try and appriciate the current mods situation.

[nathalie]

Wow, didn't even saw that post KTL made.

But thanks KTL, you surely made my day ...

If people aren't even big enough to tell me or any other mod if they got a problem, but instead just leave and blame the whole mod staff ?

Oh yes, that's much better ...

It's never good enough when you do something.
That person doesn't want it closed, the other person does want it closed.

It's not all as simple as it looks.
And by blaming the whole staff, while a person only has a problem with 1 or 2?

Yeah ... that makes it all OK too.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I think the mods are doing a okay or somewhat, But What I've seen now, Its the mods faults that people leave the forums, am I not right? I do believe it wasn't Prince Simba's or Prince Kovu's argument at a mod for leaving, But Phantom, Now Utora. And a few other Members have left because of judgements of moderators or actions upon them that were "Unfair" or "Unjustified"

I think the moderators as a whole is doing a good job, But a LOT of improvement can be made. And yeah.. I don't really see the point of this thread being open, You've lost a member because of it. Feeling happy now Moderators? I think you know now "how" the public feels about you so yeah.

KTL OUT

~KTL~

I just can't understand why people just keep on pointing fingers, Sorry to say this KTL(no offence) but you sound like taking revenge or just look the emotion by not reading the post. I think the public should think what mods sacrifice them self to make this place perfect for all ages ;). Try not to hear one side of the story, but try to hear both side of the story. In my opinion KTL :hugs:

Edit: sorry I didn't add this. About Phantom he's banned because he's spamming the whole Lea (even though I'm impressed for defending his spamming opinion). PK, Janalli, and PS(:hugs: welcome back) they leave because of 2005 Lea Summer Award, about something personal and does not involved into mods stuff. Utora, I need to hear his side of the story though to end her situation.

[Aurelian]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I think the mods are doing a okay or somewhat, But What I've seen now, Its the mods faults that people leave the forums, am I not right? I do believe it wasn't Prince Simba's or Prince Kovu's argument at a mod for leaving, But Phantom, Now Utora. And a few other Members have left because of judgements of moderators or actions upon them that were "Unfair" or "Unjustified"

I think the moderators as a whole is doing a good job, But a LOT of improvement can be made. And yeah.. I don't really see the point of this thread being open, You've lost a member because of it. Feeling happy now Moderators? I think you know now "how" the public feels about you so yeah.

KTL OUT

~KTL~

Ouch. Now I know how it feels to be slapped in the face by a close freind. If I got that tight, you think people left because of being "unfairly" repremended for bad behavior? Then you use BPR as an example. Wow, BPR didn't leave of his own will. he was thrown out for saying stuff that would have had him arrested had he said it imn real life.

I have no idea what hapened with Utora. I don't recall her being in any arguement. Same can be said for Dan. I am also fairly certain that this thread didn't make Utora leave. Judging by her replies, this was somthing that had been bugging her for awhile.

[Vidan]

Originally posted by Wicked
Alrighty, I did some experimentation with various vBulletins, and I attempted registering another username after clicking the alleged registration form for minors...as far as I can tell, it let me register with no problems...no confirmation of parental consent, no nothing. It treated me the same as if I were an adult signing up.

However, on vBulletin Version 3.5.2, when I went to register, it immediately asked for my birth date. When I put in a birthday that said I 10 years old, it immediately brought me to a COPPA disclaimer and said that a parental permission form was required. Now, I don't know if that's a feature that only works for that, or if it's an option that we still have here (it's just not turned on).

Unfortunately we have a version of vBulletin installed that's over two years old (version 2.3.2). After digging around in the vBulletin support forum, it appears that there was a bug allowing COPPA profiles to be visible to all registered members, and this bug is still present. Upgrading to at least version 2.3.4 (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91409) would solve this problem.

I also registered a test account claiming I was 10 and was able to complete my registration without any prompt for parental consent, so what Wicked says is true.

This is an issue we should address ASAP, and thanks to those who mentioned it for bringing it to our attention.

This will need to be implimented by Mufasa -- as he is the only one with file access to the server -- as well as adding the Pride Rules to the TOS agreement as was also mentioned above.


Originally posted by Nuka
KTL ... If you want to blame the mods for kicking Phantom out though, I'd readily take credit for it ...

As would I. If we decide to ban a persistent violator of the TOS who's been given a sufficient number of warnings, and they argue that it's somehow our fault, then they're just whining. They knew it was coming. It's nothing on us.


Originally posted by Roquivo
I have no idea what hapened with Utora. I don't recall her being in any arguement. Same can be said for Dan. I am also fairly certain that this thread didn't make Utora leave. Judging by her replies, this was somthing that had been bugging her for awhile.


Originally posted by Boos
Most situations where people have left its because of other members not because of(us) the mods, maybe the mods could have stopped it as likely as you could stop a freight train going in full speed towards you.

I agree with Boos. Every forum I've been a member of over the years has had its share of people come and go. Some people exit quietly, and others choose to advertise it. It's really neither here nor there. I've purposefully left forums before, and it wasn't because of any clash with the moderation team. Mostly it was new members joining whose personalities clashed with mine or a general change of atmosphere that I just didn't care for. These things are unavoidable. Moderators can help keep things civilized, but they can't necessarily make people want to log in every day, and they can't make you like the people who frequent the forum. Unless I hear someone making a specific, legitimate complaint about the moderation staff on their way out, I'll assume it's just their time to move on.


Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I think the moderators as a whole is doing a good job, But a LOT of improvement can be made.

Like what?

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by Vidan
Unfortunately we have a version of vBulletin installed that's over two years old (version 2.3.2). After digging around in the vBulletin support forum, it appears that there was a bug allowing COPPA profiles to be visible to all registered members, and this bug is still present. Upgrading to at least version 2.3.4 (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91409) would solve this problem.

I also registered a test account claiming I was 10 and was able to complete my registration without any prompt for parental consent, so what Wicked says is true.

This is an issue we should address ASAP, and thanks to those who mentioned it for bringing it to our attention.

This will need to be implimented by Mufasa -- as he is the only one with file access to the server -- as well as adding the Pride Rules to the TOS agreement as was also mentioned above.

I never heard about that, however I do believe that the COPPA settings are off by default.

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Vidan
Unfortunately we have a version of vBulletin installed that's over two years old (version 2.3.2). After digging around in the vBulletin support forum, it appears that there was a bug allowing COPPA profiles to be visible to all registered members, and this bug is still present. Upgrading to at least version 2.3.4 (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91409) would solve this problem.

I also registered a test account claiming I was 10 and was able to complete my registration without any prompt for parental consent, so what Wicked says is true.

This is an issue we should address ASAP, and thanks to those who mentioned it for bringing it to our attention.

This will need to be implimented by Mufasa -- as he is the only one with file access to the server -- as well as adding the Pride Rules to the TOS agreement as was also mentioned above.


Well, I guess that settles that, it's up to Mufasa now. Do you know if the upgrade is free?




As for the main point of the thread:

1. I started seeing mentions of closing the thread. Now, I don't think it's gonna get closed anytime soon, but before it becomes even more popular of an opinion, I figured I'd say that this is why we never get things fixed. Every time someone makes an effort to improve the forum, people start arguing until it escalates to the point where the thread needs closed. Then the members all hold grudges, the problem isn't mentioned again for a long while, and when it is mentioned, it's worse than it was before. This thread needs to remain open for the good of the forum as a whole (and really, I also think it should be a pawprint so that a member can voice a concern with one or more of the moderating staff).


2. I don't think we need to be arguing, I think we need to be fixing any problems.

One of the solutions I think would help is a moderator log thread that shows major things that a moderator or administrator does (If you're a moderator and you take some kind of major action, you would post in that thread). I think that'll not only help show the members what's going on, but it'll help the staff as well. That way, if someone says a staff member doesn't do their job, that staff member can point right to that thread, say "I did this, this, and this, I do my job" and they wouldn't have to worry about false accusations. It'll help the forum as a whole, because if that staff member really isn't doing their job, hasn't been active, or reacted in a way that's not appropriate, then that'll also be evident in the thread.

Another solution that we should consider is the fact that the members are able to care for themselves. I've noticed that sometimes certain staff members are very sensitive to tensions or maybe just looking for a thread to close. In threads where people get into it a bit, like debates, religious threads, and so on, I think that usually things should be allowed to get a bit more heated before any action is taken. It's much better to let the members involved work it out themselves instead of just closing down the thread and ending the argument there. Likewise, I think the general members of the forum need to show responsibility and respectability and try to follow the rules so that the mods don't have to get involved in the first place. I tend to think that less rules, or more lenient enforcement, does quite a bit for the moral of the forum, but also demands more responsibility from everyone. That also means to some members really need to grow up a bit, not be offended by everything, and not be calling for every thread where they didn't get their way to be closed. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to be offended when you actually are offended, it means that we need to learn to choose our battles and let the unimportant stuff slide. Of course, if the thread gets to the point where it's just a yelling match, then actions need to be taken.

I have noticed quite a few times where certain staff members have basically said "If you don't like it, go away" (I think wicked mentioned that as well). Well, just as a heads up, that does absolutely nothing to help. It's a great cop-out to get your way, and on occasions may be appropriate, but I'd very much like to hear less "If you don't like it, then leave" and much more "What would you suggest we do?". But, also along those lines, I think that if someone has a problem with something, instead of just complaining, they should also explicity say what they would like done about it. Just saying "That was a very bad thing to have done" is not going to do much (so don't expect it to), but saying "That was a bad idea, I think it would have been much better if you would have done this".

Finally, I think that we need to go about discussing things mentioned in this thread maturely. There's no reason for the staff to get upset if someone has a problem with their performance, especially not after the staff asked the forum their opinion. Likewise, the members need to go about discussing their problems maturely with the staff.


As for members leaving because of the staff, I do think that that's well within possible. Doesn't mean the staff as a whole should be attacked for that, I see 90% of the staff doing a good job, but I also think that it's a legitimate statement that it is possible that a member has or may leave based in part or in full upon the actions of certain staff members. If a member may leave because of a normal member, then they can just as easily leave because of a staff member.

[Prince Simba]

If Mufasa purchased a "Leased License", he pays for it every year, but get all the upgrades for that year. If he purchased an "Owned License", he pays once and only gets a year of free updates. For a forum like this one, the latter would be more cost-effective.

[Aurelian]

Originally posted by pntbll248


As for the main point of the thread:

1. I started seeing mentions of closing the thread. Now, I don't think it's gonna get closed anytime soon, but before it becomes even more popular of an opinion, I figured I'd say that this is why we never get things fixed. Every time someone makes an effort to improve the forum, people start arguing until it escalates to the point where the thread needs closed. Then the members all hold grudges, the problem isn't mentioned again for a long while, and when it is mentioned, it's worse than it was before. This thread needs to remain open for the good of the forum as a whole (and really, I also think it should be a pawprint so that a member can voice a concern with one or more of the moderating staff).


2. I don't think we need to be arguing, I think we need to be fixing any problems.

One of the solutions I think would help is a moderator log thread that shows major things that a moderator or administrator does (If you're a moderator and you take some kind of major action, you would post in that thread). I think that'll not only help show the members what's going on, but it'll help the staff as well. That way, if someone says a staff member doesn't do their job, that staff member can point right to that thread, say "I did this, this, and this, I do my job" and they wouldn't have to worry about false accusations. It'll help the forum as a whole, because if that staff member really isn't doing their job, hasn't been active, or reacted in a way that's not appropriate, then that'll also be evident in the thread.

Another solution that we should consider is the fact that the members are able to care for themselves. I've noticed that sometimes certain staff members are very sensitive to tensions or maybe just looking for a thread to close. In threads where people get into it a bit, like debates, religious threads, and so on, I think that usually things should be allowed to get a bit more heated before any action is taken. It's much better to let the members involved work it out themselves instead of just closing down the thread and ending the argument there. Likewise, I think the general members of the forum need to show responsibility and respectability and try to follow the rules so that the mods don't have to get involved in the first place. I tend to think that less rules, or more lenient enforcement, does quite a bit for the moral of the forum, but also demands more responsibility from everyone. That also means to some members really need to grow up a bit, not be offended by everything, and not be calling for every thread where they didn't get their way to be closed. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to be offended when you actually are offended, it means that we need to learn to choose our battles and let the unimportant stuff slide. Of course, if the thread gets to the point where it's just a yelling match, then actions need to be taken.

I have noticed quite a few times where certain staff members have basically said "If you don't like it, go away" (I think wicked mentioned that as well). Well, just as a heads up, that does absolutely nothing to help. It's a great cop-out to get your way, and on occasions may be appropriate, but I'd very much like to hear less "If you don't like it, then leave" and much more "What would you suggest we do?". But, also along those lines, I think that if someone has a problem with something, instead of just complaining, they should also explicity say what they would like done about it. Just saying "That was a very bad thing to have done" is not going to do much (so don't expect it to), but saying "That was a bad idea, I think it would have been much better if you would have done this".

Finally, I think that we need to go about discussing things mentioned in this thread maturely. There's no reason for the staff to get upset if someone has a problem with their performance, especially not after the staff asked the forum their opinion. Likewise, the members need to go about discussing their problems maturely with the staff.


As for members leaving because of the staff, I do think that that's well within possible. Doesn't mean the staff as a whole should be attacked for that, I see 90% of the staff doing a good job, but I also think that it's a legitimate statement that it is possible that a member has or may leave based in part or in full upon the actions of certain staff members. If a member may leave because of a normal member, then they can just as easily leave because of a staff member.

Well said, Pnt. Some interesting ideas there. I really think a mod log could possibly work for the more public things. However, there is still some stuff that we couldn't morally put into even that. Say that I hypothetically had to PM (enter name here) a warning for misbehaving. That would be between me and that person. Unless someone was offended, or a more drastic messure was nessecary, I don't think it would be right to make that warning public. However, there have been a few minor things that I have done that not even admins no about to this day that could have been added. Such as sticking the New Years and Christmas posts, editing out the no longer existant forums from the list in the "Welcome to Lea" post in Pride Rock, and adding the add on about cussing in Fuzzy's rule post in this forum.

As for major things, typically, anything we do that would change the face of Lea in any way is brought before the whole forum before any action is taken anyway.

About mods making members leave, it is certainly possible for an independent mod to instaigate an arguement, but much less likely for the staff as a whole to do such a thing. Same as a single member can make someone leave, but much less likley for the entire active Lea roster to do the same.

BTW, I really think that everybody has handled themselves very well in this thread so far.

[Sombolia]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I think the mods are doing a okay or somewhat, But What I've seen now, Its the mods faults that people leave the forums, am I not right? I do believe it wasn't Prince Simba's or Prince Kovu's argument at a mod for leaving, But Phantom, Now Utora. And a few other Members have left because of judgements of moderators or actions upon them that were "Unfair" or "Unjustified"

I think the moderators as a whole is doing a good job, But a LOT of improvement can be made. And yeah.. I don't really see the point of this thread being open, You've lost a member because of it. Feeling happy now Moderators? I think you know now "how" the public feels about you so yeah.

KTL OUT

~KTL~

Okay, now. I consider you a friend. I consider you a close friend, even. But I must say this..

It's not the mods fault people leave forums. Unless they're banned, people leave of their own free will, not because the mods are forcing them to get out. I don't think mods were the reason PS and PK left, nor the reason Utora left. Phantom was banned. I knew him, personally. He was an asshole. He got what was coming to him.

Mind making some suggestions as to what the mod staff can do? You seem to be highly critical of them, but you haven't offered any help whatsoever. I don't think this thread should be closed. Before your little statement here, I don't believe there were any arguements. I don't think Nuka opened this thread because he was expecting everyone to hail the mods and tell them what a good job they were doing. As pnt said, we never get things fixed, because whenever a thread comes along to help, someone has to start pointless drama [like this] and it gets closed. That's not helping anyone.

I think the mods are doing a good job, a few hitches here and there, but nothing that hasn't been mentioned. I don't have any huge problems with the mod staff, it seems like they've been fair and working hard and all that.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Roquivo
About mods making members leave, it is certainly possible for an independent mod to instaigate an arguement, but much less likely for the staff as a whole to do such a thing. Same as a single member can make someone leave, but much less likley for the entire active Lea roster to do the same.

Brilliantly put.

[Kovu The Lion]

Okay now that everyone thinks i'm an idiot/mean person I'll put something hmm.. Thanks for the advice as though I was just a little ticked off at the time being, I should have read what was going on and instead of doing that made myself look like a complete retard and a jokestar in front of the boards. I am also offering an apology out to the Moderators for the last "Happy now Moderators?" Qoute I made. I was just to tired from homework all day and come online continuing to read and saw Utora left because "Of the Moderation team of Lea" I was just severly mad at the mods and felt like letting out some steam.

I am sorry to those of you who I probably looked like a jerk to and.. Yeah, Sorry for the on going excuses, but all are true.. And here are some things from me :) I guess.. :X

1) Moderators should enforce the rules here not Swear like Sonique had done. We were just talking about "No Cussing" And Sonique, A Super Moderator Breaks one of the rules The Moderators are trying to enforce. I mean come on are we even going to try to put this rule into motion? If a mod can swear and a member can't, Don't you think thats.. Stupid? (NO offense to anyone on this)

2) I actually think some stuff is good, I liked how the "Lea Awards being opened or closed" Was handled, I do applaud you for that, But the way some topics are closed.. Example (http://www.leahalalela.com/showthread.php?threadid=6922&perpage=10&pagenumber=3) LIke that are kind of, Hmm Rude?



Proving children should not be allowed on the internet

Though That member was being stupid on the net and stuff, Neph did NOT have to off and say "children" as a whole or something. It sounded seriously rude when he did so. If you are going to take action upon a post or thread, Do it, Dont humiliate the user. :|

3) Moderators sometimes may get aggrivated with a certain member and go off on them once they do to many things wrong. Like.. ButtonCollector, I think a few mods were seriously crazy about this member and daerly hated her/him (can't remember gender) And raved until he/she was banned. Though he/she was annoying. Moderators you can keep your cool with members and just plainly state a problem and end it with saying "Stop doing this please, Thread Closed" instead of "STOP DOING THIS ALL THE TIME THREAD CLOSED As I said before, Don't put down a member, Or humiliate them in front of the boards though they did something stupid. To prove a point is good, but going on upon that point is just.. Annoying and childish sometimes, Though it CAN prove and end an argument. Don't take it to a certain extent.

4) This may not be relevant but members are just as important as a Moderator is and should also follow the rules, This is a friendly environment forums, But sometimes it just gets way out of hand. Like when someone bumps up a thread tons of members get all whacko and go crazy because its a thread they've seen a thousand times, Instead of making yourself look like a complete mad person and mean people. Just don't post there at all and wait for the topic to go back down into the piles of other useless topics, Because if you come to think of it, You can't post anything new thats already old and behind us in the forums, If you do its merged in with that thread and brought up anyways, Thats like bumping a thread up, and it seems NO ONE argues about it, Only unless some new member or someone bumps up a thread, and SOMETIMES they do post ontopic and STILL get yelled at "STOP BUMPING OLD POSTS" if you think about it, if a new member comes, EVERY post in LEA is NEW. So they have a RIGHT to post and bump up those threads. though it may be old to you, its new to them. Don't yell at them just because they made a mistake or something, and bumping isn't even against the rules.. And its not also against the rules to bump up a thread and say something offtopic



No chatting in threads. (ex: 1 line posts and replies)


is the only relevant Rule to it, But they could make a 3 line post about offtopicness and NOT break a rule. Am I right? So still.. Why do we continue to harass them about not bumping up if its not even a rule..? This could be a major place and make lea a lot better place to be, and come to to have fun :)

I wish I could think of some more things, I had a ton like.. Three months ago but.. Not anymore, Sorry once again for the rudeness/stupidity in my last post :(

~KTL~

[unregistered user]

Well, that is much more helpful and constructive, I must say. Thank you for restating your opinion in a nicer way KTL.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion

1) Moderators should enforce the rules here not Swear like Sonique had done. We were just talking about "No Cussing" And Sonique, A Super Moderator Breaks one of the rules The Moderators are trying to enforce. I mean come on are we even going to try to put this rule into motion? If a mod can swear and a member can't, Don't you think thats.. Stupid? (NO offense to anyone on this)

Tell me where you see cussing is against Pride Rules? My so called "cussing" is masked behind asterisks or other types of symbols. Before you reflect some displaced anger upon me, try and get your facts straight my friend.

[Prince Simba]

Wow. I must say that KTL is like. My twin. I say things I regret all the time!

I'd also like to point out to both of you that there are language filters (I'm pretty sure) that filter out inappropriate language.

If you wish, somebody can test it :ayecapn:

Edit: And Sonique, KTL did revise his post.

[2 Die FR]

Originally posted by SoniqueX
Tell me where you see cussing is against Pride Rules? My so called "cussing" is masked behind asterisks or other types of symbols. Before you reflect some displaced anger upon me, try and get your facts straight my friend.

Masked or not, you still meant it to be a cuss word, and since everyone else is expressing their opinions I might as well express mine- I find it offensive. I wish it were against pride rules, I don't care if no one under 13 should be here, I'm 16 and I wish I didn't have to see it.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by SoniqueX
Tell me where you see cussing is against Pride Rules? My so called "cussing" is masked behind asterisks or other types of symbols. Before you reflect some displaced anger upon me, try and get your facts straight my friend.

If you read, I never said it WAS against the Rules Sonique. Now you are doing what I'm doing, Making judgements before you actually do something.



one of the rules The Moderators are trying to enforce. I mean come on are we even going to try to put this rule into motion?

Is what I said, I never said it was a rule Sonique, And I never meant any form of anger in that post that was directed to you, It was merely a "Statement."

Though it is Filtered, It is still considered as "Swearing" I mean anyone in there rightful mind knows what you are trying to Say Sonique when you do that, Even a 10 year old would probably know, and though you say it. A kid here on this forums would probably pick it up and use it, And I'm pretty sure.. We all know what you tried to say.


EDIT:

THANK YOU 2 Die fr, Exactly what I'm trying to say :|


EDIT AGAIN:

And I just thought of something Sonique (Sorry if it sounds like i'm blowing out on you but i am GOING to win this fight.)

Roquivo stated about Symbolized swearing people saying "@$$" and #*%#" and stuff, that is a mixture of symbols also, Is it not? And is yours not the same as those? It is a symbol like you said and is used to cover up different things is it not?

I think my point is proven here..

[2 Die FR]

You're welcome.
I thought I was against what you were saying earlier in the thread, but now... oh gosh, I don't know what to think of this anymore...

[unregistered user]

Alright then, fair enough. If you have a problem with me, I suggest you take it up with an admin then.

[lion_roog]

I don't know about the swearing thing. I mean, if the dude does it a little too much or if they use it in a derogitory manner, then I can say that is a little too far. I'm just not a fan of censorship. Ofcoarse, I'm looking at this in a slippery slope kinda view were one form of distinct censorship will soon lead to another...

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion

Is what I said, I never said it was a rule Sonique, And I never meant any form of anger in that post that was directed to you, It was merely a "Statement."


Sonique, I'll say it here. I don't have a problem with you says so in my previous posts.

But if you are going to support a rule, I think you should also follow it.


edit

But Lion Roog, If they are to make "No swearing" A rule, that means you can't use any VULGAR LANGUAGE.

I mean if you can break the swearing rule, Why can't you break the offtopic rule, Spam rule, and others?

[unregistered user]

While cussing/swearing is not in the Pride Rules, it is being enforced. This was discussed in the Promontory section, and has been being enforced by the mods through filters and through personal warnings to members. I can think of several right off the top of my head.

[sarcasm] Ah.. sweet blissful confusion [/sarcam]

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion

But Lion Roog, If they are to make "No swearing" A rule, that means you can't use any VULGAR LANGUAGE.

I mean if you can break the swearing rule, Why can't you break the offtopic rule, Spam rule, and others?

Well, it depends on what light you look at the rules. The offtopic rule specifically addresses a problem that is detrimental(sp*) to the common good of the board. The swearing rule will have the same effect, but just doesn't seem solid to me. That's why I support a swearing rule, but not a ban on swearing as a whole.

[Prince Simba]

I'd like to point out:


Pride Rules:
4) No adult-oriented material.


That's a Pride rule.

In movies, vulgar language can lead to a PG or PG-13 rating. Thus it should be marked as adult-oriented material, which is clearly against the forum rules.

Edit: Also, if a member is offended by vulgarities (of any type) and asks for it to stop and it continues, that is harrassment.


Pride Rules:
3) No name-calling, put-downs or harassment of other Pride Members.

[Kovu The Lion]

Good point PS, And also I support it Lion Roog, But I don't' say it should be banned, but should have as much effect as the other rules, And should have the same punishment

That way members will NOT abuse swearing and will think before they post. Also it will keep things.. In order you could say

Now that PS sasy that


Swearing is ACTUALLY one of the Pride Rules, but its not CLEARLY stated..

[lion_roog]

Adult oriented is above 18 years old, I believe...

And harrasment, I believe, can only be inforced if the actions in question are some how targeted at the harrased person. If I say "damn, that's pretty cool"...Then member SoAndSo can't complain I am harrasing them...

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Adult oriented is above 18, I believe...

Edit: What I meant to say was that adult-oriented material is not always something that only adults do.

Besides, I can still call it harrassment.

[Kovu The Lion]

Actually it can be 15, Swearing.

On family guy on cartoon network, it says "Adult oriented material" before each episode that is played and "Should not be shown to children below the age of 15" and most of it is rude humor/swearing/racism whatever. You get the point..

But Swearing is P3 - 13

Most movies are rated PG - 13 for swearing and so that means kids unless with an adult can not go in that movie unless they are age 13 or above. So I would think Swearing is adult orientated material.

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Actually it can be 15, Swearing.

On family guy on cartoon network, it says "Adult oriented material" before each episode that is played and "Should not be shown to children below the age of 15" and most of it is rude humor/swearing/racism whatever. You get the point..

But Swearing is P3 - 13

Most movies are rated PG - 13 for swearing and so that means kids unless with an adult can not go in that movie unless they are age 13 or above. So I would think Swearing is adult orientated material.

And the Lion King is rated G. Profanity is not.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
Edit: What I meant to say was that adult-oriented material is not always something that only adults do.

Besides, I can still call it harrassment.

Despite the fact that I hate to get into semantics...I believe what is meant by "Adult-oriented" is pertaining to sexually explicit materials and language...

[2 Die FR]

The Lion King is rated G. If you want this forum to be anything but appropriate for general audiences, I think the point is lost.

Edit: whoa, PS beat me to it.

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Despite the fact that I hate to get into semantics...I believe what is meant by "Adult-oriented" is pertaining to sexually explicit materials and language...

True, but the fact of the matter is that this forum was not necessarily intended for teenagers and adults only. Thus you should conduct yourself in an according manner.

[Kovu The Lion]

Since The Lion King is rated G

I would have to say since this forums is "related to nothing but The Lion King" Except for one board

That it should be kept to a "G" Level Dont' you think?

Just because you do something IN real life, Doesnt mean you have to do it online Lion Roog (Not saying that you do anything I AM NOT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH YOU BTW xX)

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
True, but the fact of the matter is that this forum was not necessarily intended for teenagers and adults only. Thus you should conduct yourself in an according manner.

That's a straw man arguement.


That it should be kept to a "G" Level Dont' you think?

Just because you do something IN real life, Doesnt mean you have to do it online Lion Roog (Not saying that you do anything I AM NOT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH YOU BTW xX)

I agree, but I don't buy into the other extreme, either...

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by lion_roog
That's a straw man arguement.


What the ? You could at least explain yourself into what that means...

[Prince Simba]

It doesn't matter what you think of my argument.

To quote myself:


Originally posted by Prince Simba
And the Lion King is rated G. Profanity is not.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
What the ? You could at least explain yourself into what that means...

It means he kinda ignored my position and challenged it with a distorted view of my position.

[unregistered user]

I don't understand the logic behind swearing at all myself, but especially when typed or written.

If you slip up in speech now and then, that's one thing. Hey, I've done it myself ya' know, right in class, while giving a speech!

However, why type it out. Our brains can easily, very easily, register what we have written down. All we need to do is practice a bit of self control. Swearing shows lack of thought in my opinion. You rush through your post just to get it out there, and include all of those vulgar words that add 100% zilch to your subject.

"And that's the way it is" ~Walter Cronkite

[2 Die FR]

So Roog, what is it you want? You support a swearing rule, but not a ban on swearing as a whole? You're either on one side or the other, or you're contradicting yourslef.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by lion_roog
It means he kinda ignored my position and challenged it with a distorted view of my position.

Thats another thing that can be done about the forums

Don't say anything about something you have no clue about, Or go at another user with some completely random thing thats not even true or you thought was something different, ask them first before judging wrong :|

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
It means he kinda ignored my position and challenged it with a distorted view of my position.

I wasn't really trying to challenge your position with that one. I was more into stating a fact.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Nuka

However, why type it out. Our brains can easily, very easily, register what we have written down. All we need to do is practice a bit of self control. Swearing shows lack of thought in my opinion. You rush through your post just to get it out there, and include all of those vulgar words that add 100% zilch to your subject.

"And that's the way it is" ~Walter Cronkite

Well, so that you all can get my view on it. I control my swearing very well over the internet, but I will do it sometimes because I still got to represent myself as I am.

But again, I am not against a rule on swearing, just against the banning of it. Seems a little too extreme in my opinion.

[unregistered user]

Roog, doesn't a rule basically ban something though. I'm a bit confused by that statement. :E

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
So Roog, what is it you want? You support a swearing rule, but not a ban on swearing as a whole? You're either on one side or the other, or you're contradicting yourslef.

It means I want to be able to say "damn, that's cool" or whatever without being made into a bad person by some forum rule.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Well, so that you all can get my view on it. I control my swearing very well over the internet, but I will do it sometimes because I still got to represent myself as I am.

But again, I am not against a rule on swearing, just against the banning of it. Seems a little too extreme in my opinion.


Well try this, Express yourself in a positive way than breaking a rule?

[Prince Simba]

Can you explain to us the point of making a rule if you're just going to break it because of "who you are"?

There are places where it is accepted that swearing just occurs (even though it is not necessarily acceptable to do). This is really not one of those places.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Well try this, Express yourself in a positive way than breaking a rule?

Breaking rules has been the foundation of the progress of society...

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Breaking rules has been the foundation of the progress of society...


Breaking rules was also one of the reasons for the Fall of Greece :)


So do we want Lea to fall like it did?

If you look in the real world, You can't get away with breaking a law no matter what, You WILL BE CHARGED AND FINED. I can guarantee you you can't robb someone and not be found (Well sometimes you wont but thats LUCKY)

But here on Lea, Its always proved and you can always find out if someone did something. SO basically

Breaking a rule = Punishment

a punishment is from a crime, So a crime is breaking a rule. And you should be punished for breaking a rule/law, No?

[unregistered user]

Or the dismantlement of civilization, depending on your viewpoints my friend.

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Breaking rules has been the foundation of the progress of society...

Yes, but there are rules that are integral to the progress of society.

If I suddenly decided that it was okay to kill people because society needed to progress, would I not go to jail? (Assuming that I went out and killed a bunch of people or something)

There are certain rules that can be broken (in some situations) and others that should never be broken (ever). This being a forum based on a G-rated movie, a ban on swearing should be the latter type.

And if a ban is still to harsh, then how about we call it an "Impediment upon Vulgar Language" or something?

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Nuka
Roog, doesn't a rule basically ban something though. I'm a bit confused by that statement. :E

Not precisely(sp*)...a rule can be put into effect to control something, to regulate it...without having to get rid of it. I can't think of a good example right now...kinda tired. I guess maybe how a speed limit regulates the top speed someone can go. In a sense it is banning...but not a full banning, as someone can still go a certain speed until they reach a point...in which the rule comes into play to regulate it...

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Not precisely(sp*)...a rule can be put into effect to control something, to regulate it...without having to get rid of it. I can't think of a good example right now...kinda tired. I guess maybe how a speed limit regulates the top speed someone can go. In a sense it is banning...but not a full banning, as someone can still go a certain speed until they reach a point...in which the rule comes into play to regulate it...

That's one way to think about it. Another way to think about it is this: A 25 MPH speed limit bans you from going 50 MPH.

[unregistered user]

So, by that do you mean certain words should be banned while others remain? Or do you mean swearing should be allowed in specific cases?

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Not precisely(sp*)...a rule can be put into effect to control something, to regulate it...without having to get rid of it. I can't think of a good example right now...kinda tired. I guess maybe how a speed limit regulates the top speed someone can go. In a sense it is banning...but not a full banning, as someone can still go a certain speed until they reach a point...in which the rule comes into play to regulate it...


WRONG.

If you go 70 + in a 55 MPH zone, You lose your license :) Which is like "banning"

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
Yes, but there are rules that are integral to the progress of society.

Yes, but who decides those rules? How do we judge what rules are integral to society? And will those views change as society moves along?

And I agree, Nuka...the breaking of rules will do that, but that does not void the fact that it also does the opposite...

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Nuka
So, by that do you mean certain words should be banned while others remain? Or do you mean swearing should be allowed in specific cases?

I believe that swearing should be allowed as long as it's not directed at somebody or made to become habitual in someone's posting.

And about my previous statement on Speed limits...I addressed the issues you both pointed out.

[Kovu The Lion]

So now you tell us it should be allowed

But before you should say it should be punishable, and not banned for it

So we should punish those anyways that do it not directly at someone, and ban those who do it at someone?

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Yes, but who decides those rules? How do we judge what rules are integral to society? And will those views change as society moves along?

You have to look at it like this. This is a soceity open to young children because it is based on a movie that was originally intended for young children. Young children should not be exposed to vulgar language (at all). Thus, that rule is integral to this soceity.

Edit: And how can we figure out whether language is directed at us or not? Anybody can lie.

[unregistered user]

BReaking rules in some turns is a good thing, in others it's bad. Rules are made to be followed and to keep order, and to pass restrictions.

Some rules are good (No killing), some are bad (racial and sexual segregation).

We learn with the punches my friend. However I do not see how swearing could improve the forum at all. That's a pathetic argument yes, as you could just as easily say that you do not see how it could bring it down.

When it comes down to it though, society in a whole has decided (unless you live under a dictator that is). So perhaps a vote would resolve this issue for us?

[Kovu The Lion]

I have an Idea Lion Roog, Not to be mean but here try this..

Stop thinking about what you will have to do after these rules are made, or how you will have to act like once the rules are made (If they are)

Try thinking about the other users here in lea and not yourself all the time?

[2 Die FR]

I'm with Nuka; I think the only way to resolve this, to be fair to the most members possible, a vote is in order.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
So now you tell us it should be allowed

But before you should say it should be punishable, and not banned for it

So we should punish those anyways that do it not directly at someone, and ban those who do it at someone?

I don't understand what you want from me...the wording is kinda confusing me.


You have to look at it like this. This is a soceity open to young children because it is based on a movie that was originally intended for young children. Young children should not be exposed to vulgar language (at all). Thus, that rule is integral to this soceity.

Then, at what age should they be exposed to vulgar language? Or would that be up to discussion? And to what severity should they first be exposed to? I guess my point is that the use of vulgar language when it comes to a situation like this comes down to points of view...

[2 Die FR]

You don't understand Roog, it's NOT about age! I could be 100 and I wouldn't want it in this forum!!

[unregistered user]

*does a Spongebob pose*

"Perspective" (instead of 'Imagination') x)

[Prince Simba]

Then, at what age should they be exposed to vulgar language? Or would that be up to discussion? And to what severity should they first be exposed to? I guess my point is that the use of vulgar language when it comes to a situation like this comes down to points of view... [/B][/QUOTE]

In a Utopia, nobody would ever be exposed to any sort of vulgarity.

Since we can't do that, it'd be nice at least if the kids weren't exposed to it here of all places. You like this forum? Is a little kid going to like this forum if there's swearing going on? And what if a kid's parents see something, by chance? Isn't it going to cause trouble.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Nuka


We learn with the punches my friend. However I do not see how swearing could improve the forum at all. That's a pathetic argument yes, as you could just as easily say that you do not see how it could bring it down.

Well, here's another thing to think about. Could you consider something like "Well, then she called me a b****" on the same level as "you're a b****"...Both are still swearing.

And a vote sounds good, but there should be more than two choices...it's not black and white


Try thinking about the other users here in lea and not yourself all the time?

Man, if I didn't care about Lea, then I wouldn't care enough to discuss this with y'all here.

[Kovu The Lion]

THen why Roog, Do you not get the point of "No swearing at all" ? and WHY Would you want people to swear in a "TLK zone" I mean dang, The movie never sweared so why should the forums ABOUT the movie allow swaering? :|

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
You don't understand Roog, it's NOT about age! I could be 100 and I wouldn't want it in this forum!!

Oh, I know and respect that, but I was addressing the issue on swearing and age...so I made my arguement to take age into consideration...

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Well, here's another thing to think about. Could you consider something like "Well, then she called me a b****" on the same level as "you're a b****"...Both are still swearing.

And a vote sounds good, but there should be more than two choices...it's not black and white


It's black and white to a little kid. To them it doesn't matter how you say it. It just has to be there and that kid will absorb it. Even if it's just periodic. And if you really look at things, Roog, you are thinking only of yourself. You have to think of the only reason you've given us that swearing should remain: it was for you, so that you can act like yourself.

[unregistered user]

Mufasa doesn't mind if you use a bit of cussing as long as it doesn't purposely offend anyone and more importantly it should be used in good moral judgement.

I myself try and not use it too often only as a bit of outlandish humor perhaps. But I have the decency to at least **** it.

"Each speech could come naturally from the speaker and from no one else. Each is very moving. Each has great rhythmic flow and force. Yet each is in the same basic pattern." - William Shakespeare

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
THen why Roog, Do you not get the point of "No swearing at all" ? and WHY Would you want people to swear in a "TLK zone" I mean dang, The movie never sweared so why should the forums ABOUT the movie allow swaering? :|

Because I don't live in the Lion King...I live in a world a lot uglier. So all I want is to not be made into some bad guy by some rule when a little of the real me shows up in an online forum. It's not like I do it all the time...but sometimes it's the best way for me to express myself.

[2 Die FR]

Then maybe, for the benefit of the forum, we need to come up with new ways to express yourself.

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Because I don't live in the Lion King...I live in a world a lot uglier. So all I want is to not be made into some bad guy by some rule when a little of the real me shows up in an online forum. It's not like I do it all the time...but sometimes it's the best way for me to express myself.

This isn't your world alone and it probably never will be.


Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Then maybe, for the benefit of the forum, we need to come up with new ways to express yourself.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
And if you really look at things, Roog, you are thinking only of yourself. You have to think of the only reason you've given us that swearing should remain: it was for you, so that you can act like yourself.

Sometimes you have to be a little selfish...but I think when I take a stand against something I don't believe in, I am doing it for more than just me. I am doing it for anyone who shares my view.

[Kovu The Lion]

Okay I just realized something after slapping myself (Literally)

1) Why am I arguing and trying to get something out of Roog

2) Roog is entitled to his Opinion and we shouldn't force him to change it

3) If Roog wants to express himself, Let him. "He got what was coming to him" Is what you can say if something happens

So I think I'm done with this post for a while.

"Every person has a right to be different from everyone else in the world, That is what we call - Individuality" ~ Someone I don't know :)

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Then maybe, for the benefit of the forum, we need to come up with new ways to express yourself.

Maybe so, but not until I see that I am damaging the forum in any way.

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Sometimes you have to be a little selfish...but I think when I take a stand against something I don't believe in, I am doing it for more than just me. I am doing it for anyone who shares my view.

And sometimes you have to be a little selfless. Sometimes you have to give a little and accept that somebody else could possibly be right.

And you can't say you're not being selfish by standing up for your own cause on behalf of other people.

Edit:


Originally posted by lion_roog
Maybe so, but not until I see that I am damaging the forum in any way.

Will it seriously take some huge flame-war or somebody else leaving to get you to change your mind?

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Okay I just realized something after slapping myself (Literally)

1) Why am I arguing and trying to get something out of Roog

2) Roog is entitled to his Opinion and we shouldn't force him to change it

3) If Roog wants to express himself, Let him. "He got what was coming to him" Is what you can say if something happens

So I think I'm done with this post for a while.

"Every person has a right to be different from everyone else in the world, That is what we call - Individuality" ~ Someone I don't know :)

Very cool. I am just supporting one point of view. You will learn that I am very stubborn (both a good thing and a bad one), but if you convince me otherwise...then I am willing to admit it. But it takes a lot to convince me.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba
And sometimes you have to be a little selfless. Sometimes you have to give a little and accept that somebody else could possibly be right.

And you can't say you're not being selfish by standing up for your own cause on behalf of other people.

But first you must convince me that you're right in order for me to agree with you. Until then, I still hold my same views.

You're right...I can't say that I'm not selfish in a lot of cases...but then again, no one can say that...

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba

Will it seriously take some huge flame-war or somebody else leaving to get you to change your mind?

Idle threats will not sway me. Am I really being that offensive with my opinions?

EDIT: sorry for the triple posts...Sometimes I am oblivious to some things...:cheese:

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
Idle threats will not sway me. Am I really being that offensive with my opinions?

EDIT: sorry for the triple posts...Sometimes I am oblivious to some things...:cheese:

No, I was just asking.


Originally posted by lion_roog
You're right...I can't say that I'm not selfish in a lot of cases...but then again, no one can say that...

You're right.


But, I hope that me leaving will help you to change your mind. I was hoping that it wouldn't come to this. :alone:











Just kidding mate, I'll be back after some sleep. it's 2am here :gasp:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Prince Simba


Just kidding mate, I'll be back after some sleep. it's 2am here :gasp:

:haha:...You're right...since I live only two hours from you south in Tucson...it's also 2am here...:D



No, I was just asking.

Good, because I am hoping we can have a discussion that may become pretty indepth without anyone not being able to cope with it and leaving. I tend to find that that situation either stems from someone not being able to handle an arguement, or someone going on the offensive in a personal matter. If people can keep it from becoming personal, then there shouldn't be anyone leaving or grudges being held...everyone just has to be adult about it.

[2 Die FR]

and 1 am here. :zzz: I quit...for now.

[Kovu The Lion]

4 am here, Thats why I stoped arguing :P i'd say something stupid :idiot:

[Prince Simba]

Originally posted by lion_roog
:haha:...You're right...since I live only two hours from you south in Tucson...it's also 2am here...:D

Oh no! Between now and sunrise he could come and kill me! :eek:

Either that or torture/tickle me into seeing his point of view. :gasp:

It's clobber time! :die:

:lol:

[2 Die FR]

Y'know, it's really, really hard to argue so seriously with a guy as typically non-serious as roog...

*back to sleep*:zzz:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Y'know, it's really, really hard to argue so seriously with a guy as typically non-serious as roog...

*back to sleep*:zzz:

:haha:...My personality as many demensions...I just choose to be light hearted about most things...But I bet you've been expecting me to suddenly come off with a one liner to a serious comment...:p

PS...sleep with one eye open...:evilgrin:

KTL...Go to sleep, Man!....And I feel you about that saying something stupid thing when you're tired...:D

[2 Die FR]

:gasp:

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by lion_roog
:haha:...My personality as many demensions...I just choose to be light hearted about most things...But I bet you've been expecting me to suddenly come off with a one liner to a serious comment...:p

PS...sleep with one eye open...:evilgrin:


HARASSMENT HARASSMENT BAN HIM BAN HIM OMFG BAN HIM









































just kidding don't or I'll come to you :die::roars:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion



just kidding don't or I'll come to you :die::roars:

:haha:...what if that was my plan all along?...;)...And we'll continue this discussion tomorrow...at a time convenient to me...:diva:

[Sadiki]

I can't take a look at this thread too carefully now sinse I'm at the airport in Germany, but I want to correct couple of things I realized while I was reading the first page. First of all I don't think I have ever said I gonna be moving or that I wouldn't come back, I just took a break because I spent a Christmas with Sharifu ( as I think most of you know already ) so I didn't want to come online on that little time we can spend together ( It should be understandable ). and what comes to my inactivity, I can't help it. I can understand if some people think I shoudn't be a moderator, but I have a lot stuff I have to take care of in my personal life i.e work and school. I actually post here more often then I see my friends... ( I will get back to you after I get home if I'm not to tired after 19hours flights and layovers )

[nathalie]

Oh my God ... I've been up dying from pain on my teeth ... And I can tell you, by reading the last 4 pages (new posts), the pain didn't get any better.

What's this really about now?
Are the mods still doing a good job? Or can we swear or not swear on this board?

I think you might saw me write "*beep*" once or twice, when I'm mad or something.

It's the f*** in a perfectly normal phrase, which I don't like, since the F word doesn't even need to be in most phrases, but people still use it like that, and God knows why ...

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by nathalie
What's this really about now?
Are the mods still doing a good job? Or can we swear or not swear on this board?

I was wonderin' when someone was going to say that.

:lol:

Sorry about the pain, Nath... :( :hugs:

[Aurelian]

Well, if you guys were attempting to destroy the mod staff, you did a heck of a job. As you know, Nathalie is taking a break, luckily for her own needs. Another active mod, whom I will allow to name themselves when they are ready, has handed in their resignation becaus eof stress from the forum. I can't speak for all the mods, but seeing these past few posts in this forum is just making me want to scream and put my fist through a wall. You are going to hear some stuff you would never expect me to say.

Quite frankly, I am saddened to see how this forum reacted to this thread in the first place. I we got is "I hate this", and "the mods are bad because of that", but is anybody willing to offer suggestions to help? Nope. And what about how we get taken advantage of? You expect us to fix every little problem that happens, half the time with stuff outside of Lea, but when the problem involves you in even a small margain, you give us a scream-fest. Please, people, GROW UP! We are NOT your babysitters. Take responcibility for your own problems if that if you can.

You know, it seems that instead of helping us to better ourselved for the sake of the forum, you seem to want to take us down as a whole. Tell me, where would this forum be without a mod staff? I can easily show you.

Gametalk (http://www.gametalk.com)

This is a forum I used to be a part of awhile back. There is no regestering system, and there are about 1000 regs for each member of the mod staff. The webmaster wastes all his time building toys for himself. Comparing Lea to that place is like comparing a desert island to New York City or London. I dare ANY of you to spend a day if one of those forums, and then come tell me that Lea has a poor mad staff. Do we make mistakes? Yes, but we are onlu human. Instead of bashing us for everything that goes wrong, and ignoring all the positive, why not work with us instead of against us.


And mods, we NEED to get on the same page here. I am seeing severel different versions of the rules, and am very confused about it. How the time, I don't even know what is right and wrong anymore. We need to get the ruiles straight beofre we start getting on the forum for breaking them. Also, some organization of our leaders is needed. We need figure out stays and who goes, and such. I don't recall who said, but we reaaly aren't making enough comunications among ourselves here.

Yes, I know a lot of that didn't makle sence, but it came from the heart from someone beyond frustration begging for his sanity.

[Vidan]

The discussion on profanity was definitely stimulating. I could have done without the chatting at the end, but it is good that you guys care, and it makes me want to care. =) So, here's my take on some of the recent developments in this thread.


Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
1) Moderators should enforce the rules here not Swear like Sonique had done. We were just talking about "No Cussing" And Sonique, A Super Moderator Breaks one of the rules The Moderators are trying to enforce. I mean come on are we even going to try to put this rule into motion? If a mod can swear and a member can't, Don't you think thats.. Stupid? (NO offense to anyone on this)

2) I actually think some stuff is good, I liked how the "Lea Awards being opened or closed" Was handled, I do applaud you for that, But the way some topics are closed.. Example (http://www.leahalalela.com/showthread.php?threadid=6922&perpage=10&pagenumber=3) LIke that are kind of, Hmm Rude?

Though That member was being stupid on the net and stuff, Neph did NOT have to off and say "children" as a whole or something. It sounded seriously rude when he did so. If you are going to take action upon a post or thread, Do it, Dont humiliate the user. :|

3) Moderators sometimes may get aggrivated with a certain member and go off on them once they do to many things wrong. Like.. ButtonCollector, I think a few mods were seriously crazy about this member and daerly hated her/him (can't remember gender) And raved until he/she was banned. Though he/she was annoying. Moderators you can keep your cool with members and just plainly state a problem and end it with saying "Stop doing this please, Thread Closed" instead of "STOP DOING THIS ALL THE TIME THREAD CLOSED As I said before, Don't put down a member, Or humiliate them in front of the boards though they did something stupid. To prove a point is good, but going on upon that point is just.. Annoying and childish sometimes, Though it CAN prove and end an argument. Don't take it to a certain extent.

4) This may not be relevant but members are just as important as a Moderator is and should also follow the rules, This is a friendly environment forums, But sometimes it just gets way out of hand. Like when someone bumps up a thread tons of members get all whacko and go crazy because its a thread they've seen a thousand times, Instead of making yourself look like a complete mad person and mean people. Just don't post there at all and wait for the topic to go back down into the piles of other useless topics, Because if you come to think of it, You can't post anything new thats already old and behind us in the forums, If you do its merged in with that thread and brought up anyways, Thats like bumping a thread up, and it seems NO ONE argues about it, Only unless some new member or someone bumps up a thread, and SOMETIMES they do post ontopic and STILL get yelled at "STOP BUMPING OLD POSTS" if you think about it, if a new member comes, EVERY post in LEA is NEW. So they have a RIGHT to post and bump up those threads. though it may be old to you, its new to them. Don't yell at them just because they made a mistake or something, and bumping isn't even against the rules.[/B]

Thanks for the constructive criticism, exactly what I (and I expect the other moderators) were looking for. As for the points you mentioned:

1) I believe we do need to come to a consensus and clarify our rule on "vulgar language" in the forum. Personally I'm not offended by reading any of it, but as I see it, there can be no gray area as far as what is allowed and what isn't. Allowing certain words on a situational basis sounds fair, but it would be impossible for us to come up with concrete rules as to when profanity is appropriate, and even then, there would be times when we aren't really sure whether a certain instance is allowable or not. If we have to start making judgement calls, frankly we'll be wasting our time. I would support a ban on profanity if only to eliminate the confusion that this presents. Really, anything that can be said with profanity can just as well be said without, and more constructively at that.

2) That whole thread was a bit ridiculous from the start, don't you think? I don't blame Neph for being Neph. Yes, the wording was regrettable, but she was/is a new mod. I'm glad you pointed that specific instance out, but I assure you most threads are closed quite a bit less dramatically. Actually, in this instance, nothing needed to be said at all. The creator of the thread was obviously on their way out and wanted to make some sort of perverse, biting exit. ;)

3) That particular member was more than "annoying." He/she received numerous warnings over the course of months, and, had created multiple accounts. Not just 2 or 3, but 16, forcing us to ban the IP. (I didn't have much to do with it, as I wasn't very active at the time.) You probably weren't aware of all that, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. What you probably perceived as the moderators being over the top was just us doing our jobs. Overall, save for certain instances where perhaps we let our emotions get in the way, we tend to do our work simply and quietly (but decisively). Also, if it is necessary to give a warning to a member, the warnings must escalate. They may start out politely (as they should) but they need to become more adamant as time passes and they still haven't heeded the warning. It's true that the offending member might get a satisfaction from us getting on their case all the time, but it's all we can do to ask them to follow the rules. It's not just for our sake, it's with the hope that they can become good, functioning members of the forum. If we didn't care, we'd simply ban people left and right, but we do care, and we do seek to maintain the integrity and dignity of the forum.

4) You've got a good point. There ought to be specific guidelines. Maybe a new rule is in order. Reviving old threads in certain forums and in circumstances should be allowed; however, general forum etiquette says that you should create a new thread about a very general topic (that would exclude threads about a particular movie, for example) if similar, older threads haven't been posted in for at least a month. Don't take that as a rule, as we'll have to discuss it and come to some sort of consensus, then update the Pride Rules, but it is a widely accepted guideline.


Originally posted by Roquivo
And mods, we NEED to get on the same page here. I am seeing severel different versions of the rules, and am very confused about it. How the time, I don't even know what is right and wrong anymore. We need to get the ruiles straight beofre we start getting on the forum for breaking them. Also, some organization of our leaders is needed. We need figure out stays and who goes, and such. I don't recall who said, but we reaaly aren't making enough comunications among ourselves here.[/B]

Roquivo, I agree with you there. I think this is in part because the mod staff is so unstable/thin at the moment. When we had more moderation staff one person would bring a minor issue to our attention and we'd all be aware of it and know what to do in the future. Now, not as many issues are brought up, and it seems that we are forced to work more independantly since there are fewer of us on at the same time. So there's no conspiracy going on in The Promontory. There's nothing at all going on there, and we could stand talk a little more.

Another thing is that there really isn't a heck of a lot going on right now, so we are starting to go back to the basics and disect the pride rules. Actually, it's our duty to enforce the rules that we already have, not necessarily make new ones. The rules that we do have our very clear. But, if it's the case that we do have "unwritten" rules then they must be "written," so to speak. With Mufasa not keeping a very close eye on the forum, I suppose it is our obligation.

As for deciding if we need to remove certain people from the mod staff and possibly take on new moderators, it is something we need to look at. I'm not sure if the actual act of removing certain people from the mod staff would accomplish as much as our seeking out new additions to the staff. It's been discussed that STM, Fuzzy, and Ghalati be removed from the mod staff. In each case I would have to refrain from being a part of the decision making process because of personal matters. But, with that being said, regardless of whether they remain or not I think that at the moment we could use some additional moderators. Seeing as the active moderation staff would be almost entirely newer at that point, that would be a good time to discuss among ourselves how we are going to effectively enforce the pride rules, and specifically what each of them means.

In any case, I just restated what Roquivo said in possibly too many words. :p


Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Being a moderator at Lea, or another not particularly large forum for that matter isn't really all that bad... sure, you might not have the favour of everyone, but you should have confidence in your own ability. If you're getting overly stressed out by it, maybe you should step back from the situation for a moment, look at it from the outside.

Good point. Roquivo, you're doing a good job in your new role and learning as you go along, so keep it up. =) I don't think I've ever talked to you directly but feel free to PM me if you need anything.

(continues)

[Vidan]

(continued)

As for me, I tend to be pretty hard-headed. I don't take any of this personally, though I do feel an obligation to help keep this forum at the same level of constructive energy I felt when I joined very early on, since it did help me out at the exact moment when my life couldn't seem more unfulfilling and gave me a new sense of hope and direction.

Just the fact that you've all been able to make impassioned comments about this forum in this thread without it collapsing into flaming spam is a testament to how you all want us to help make Lea a better place. And that's really why the thread was created in the first place -- to help give us direction toward something better. :cheese:

[Juniper]

Originally posted by Roquivo
Well, if you guys were attempting to destroy the mod staff, you did a heck of a job. As you know, Nathalie is taking a break, luckily for her own needs. Another active mod, whom I will allow to name themselves when they are ready, has handed in their resignation becaus eof stress from the forum. I can't speak for all the mods, but seeing these past few posts in this forum is just making me want to scream and put my fist through a wall. You are going to hear some stuff you would never expect me to say.

Quite frankly, I am saddened to see how this forum reacted to this thread in the first place. I we got is "I hate this", and "the mods are bad because of that", but is anybody willing to offer suggestions to help? Nope. And what about how we get taken advantage of? You expect us to fix every little problem that happens, half the time with stuff outside of Lea, but when the problem involves you in even a small margain, you give us a scream-fest. Please, people, GROW UP! We are NOT your babysitters. Take responcibility for your own problems if that if you can.

You know, it seems that instead of helping us to better ourselved for the sake of the forum, you seem to want to take us down as a whole. Tell me, where would this forum be without a mod staff? I can easily show you.

Gametalk (http://www.gametalk.com)

This is a forum I used to be a part of awhile back. There is no regestering system, and there are about 1000 regs for each member of the mod staff. The webmaster wastes all his time building toys for himself. Comparing Lea to that place is like comparing a desert island to New York City or London. I dare ANY of you to spend a day if one of those forums, and then come tell me that Lea has a poor mad staff. Do we make mistakes? Yes, but we are onlu human. Instead of bashing us for everything that goes wrong, and ignoring all the positive, why not work with us instead of against us.


And mods, we NEED to get on the same page here. I am seeing severel different versions of the rules, and am very confused about it. How the time, I don't even know what is right and wrong anymore. We need to get the ruiles straight beofre we start getting on the forum for breaking them. Also, some organization of our leaders is needed. We need figure out stays and who goes, and such. I don't recall who said, but we reaaly aren't making enough comunications among ourselves here.

Yes, I know a lot of that didn't makle sence, but it came from the heart from someone beyond frustration begging for his sanity.



Now, that seemed just like a post I remember a bit earlier in this thread that was accusing the entire moderating staff of being responsible for members leaving. I just wanted to point out that the staff got angry from that post, so as a member who's actively posting in this thread, I feel I'm entitled to get angry at this post. However, I won't and I'm not because that would be counter-productive. I did give advice on how to improve (which, coincidently you were just about the only one to even acknowledge that post :p ).


Moving on...

As for the moderating staff... well, I think that if they're going to ask our opinion, they'd best be ready to get it in blunt truth. Don't ask if you don't want to hear it. If I'm responsible for anyone feeling down, either mentally or physically, then I don't really have any intent of apologizing, since I don't believe in apologizing unless you've done something wrong. But, I also think that this thread has escalated past what it needs to, I really don't think anything's going to get solved if we don't all calm down a tad. I mean, come on guys, it's an internet forum, not the UN; we can go about this a bit more calmly with the comforting knowledge that, even if lea were to not exist tomorrow, it would not have a major impact on the rest of our lives (at least, I hope and pray that's true).

If someone's getting stressed out or too angry right now, maybe they should take a deep breath, turn the computer off, and come back tomorrow when they've cooled off. Heck, maybe they could go rent a movie and hang out with some friends or something. This thread will still be here tomorrow and no complete 180 is going to be made on the forum overnight, don't worry. Hakuna Matata, guys.



As for swearing, I think that an acceptable amount should be... acceptable... I mean, if we want to go on a mass genocide against foul language, then count me out, because I really do think there's bigger fish to fry. Needless to say, the moment the mods start cracking down on cursing even more, there's going to be just as many people complaining that the mods are being too mean. Likewise, using laws and movie ratings to decide what's acceptable on an internet forum is a bit sad. Plus, what is considered cursing varies from person to person, as does the meaning of those words. I use quite a bit of the lower "cuss words" when I'm saying something I believe strongly in, I consider them sentence enhancers. That, and I think that words only have the meaning that they're given.

[Kovu The Lion]

As Simba said, Moderators here are really getting annoyed bye spam and other things try looking at RuneScape and its forums, I think about 100,000 Threads are created a day with over 1 million Posts a day, And having to go through and look for spam / ranting badly or stuff can get annoying. And you think you've got it bad :| (No offense to mods just stating)

Roquivo, I harassed the mods and made them feel down, Upsetting many members and I did ask for forgiveness, and if you choose to not forgive me, then Its not my problem its the others. I gave my views on moderators CLEARLY so I think I have done my job in this thread. I really don't know what else there is to DO here anymore (In my part) So I think I'm just going to leave out and let you others decide what to do, And besides, I'm just a member. My opinion doesnt matter when it comes to an Admin/Moderator vote or change of forums :P So I'm out of this one for the time being, Glad to have gave some opinions, and glad I could have got some stuff back at me for what I thought was wrong but was actually something good and my story was wrong, So thanks Vidan :hugs:

And also to the Moderators that are being aggrivated, If this is to much for a task for you to do this stuff, Step Down And you know what I mean when I say "Step down".

And now, I rest my case. Moderators, Just sit back, Chill and just.. Calm down, (Roquivo mostly xX) Most of the members here CAN'T take matters into there own hands, Why you ask? Because they will probably be called a "wanna be moderator" or something, Or if they try to say "Close a thread or something" They can't and will just say "your opinion doesnt matter, its the benefit of the forums that matters" Or something along those lines.. So its really up to you Moderators to do the action. All we members can do, Is show you whats going on

And that would be a good thing to if Members would point out problems to Moderators/Admins this place would be a better place to go to And it would be.. More relaxed I guess *shrugs and walks out*

~KTL~

[Aurelian]

Imapologize for snapping. This was in no way directed at you, KTL. It was directed to Lea as a whole. This whole thing is tough for me. Of the three active mods remaining in this thread, I have the least experience, and am still rough around the edges. After seeing both Nuka and Nathalie walk out the door, I just kind of panicked. I was never ready to have such a load thrown on me after only a bit more then a month on staff. No, I am not leaving. I would feel rotten for abandoning Lea in it's time of need. We are short staffed as it is.

I'm going to stay away from this thread for a bit.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
As Simba said, Moderators here are really getting annoyed bye spam and other things try looking at RuneScape and its forums, I think about 100,000 Threads are created a day with over 1 million Posts a day, And having to go through and look for spam / ranting badly or stuff can get annoying. And you think you've got it bad :| (No offense to mods just stating)



You can't really tell us to do that, because big forums have more threads, therefore each moderator has on average the same amount to do.



And also to the Moderators that are being aggrivated, If this is to much for a task for you to do this stuff, Step Down And you know what I mean when I say "Step down".

Kind of harsh. It's not our fault if people spam the Hell out of the forum. People should behave on a free service- the responsibility should not fall purely on us. You should be able to control your own actions.


And that would be a good thing to if Members would point out problems to Moderators/Admins this place would be a better place to go to And it would be.. More relaxed I guess *shrugs and walks out*

We have a mod only forum. We are organised, you know.

Also, I have to wonder... why isn't this forum 13+? =/

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Kind of harsh. It's not our fault if people spam the Hell out of the forum. People should behave on a free service- the responsibility should not fall purely on us. You should be able to control your own actions.

Also, I have to wonder... why isn't this forum 13+? =/

It may be harsh Neph, But its the truth and you know it is also. If you know that you won't be able to withstand these conditions then why join up to be a moderator yourself? So you can see a forums others can't? Or is it because you want your name in bold so people recoginze you? Or maybe that you want to be able to have certain things others don't.

Or is it that you feel its your job?

But if you can't handle it, Seriously don't accept the offer to Modship.

Why isn't it 13+? Maybe this is why

Was The Lion King Movie meant for 13 + audiences? Nope.. So that might be why :)

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
It may be harsh Neph, But its the truth and you know it is also. If you know that you won't be able to withstand these conditions then why join up to be a moderator yourself? So you can see a forums others can't? Or is it because you want your name in bold so people recoginze you? Or maybe that you want to be able to have certain things others don't.

Or is it that you feel its your job?

But if you can't handle it, Seriously don't accept the offer to Modship.

Why isn't it 13+? Maybe this is why

Was The Lion King Movie meant for 13 + audiences? Nope.. So that might be why :)

Excuse me? How bloody disrespectful can you get? All I said was that people should be responsible for their own actions, and that it is not purely up to me to control your minds. I can deal with it fine, thank you very much.

Yes. I have been at this forum for way over two years- I definitely need my name in bold font to be recognised. And the mod forum is so bleedin' interested I just happened to be offered the job without even requesting it. Oh noes.

The movie isn't made for over 13 year olds? Then why are you here? Why am I here? Why are most people here? It's not about the film, it's about ToS of internet forums.

Blah.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Excuse me? How bloody disrespectful can you get? All I said was that people should be responsible for their own actions, and that it is not purely up to me to control your minds. I can deal with it fine, thank you very much.

Yes. I have been at this forum for way over two years- I definitely need my name in bold font to be recognised. And the mod forum is so bleedin' interested I just happened to be offered the job without even requesting it. Oh noes.

The movie isn't made for over 13 year olds? Then why are you here? Why am I here? Why are most people here? It's not about the film, it's about ToS of internet forums.

Blah.

I don't find myself at all being "dissrespectful" I never said anything was directed to you except that first sentance I made "and you know it"

And the movie is meant for Little Kids also, So thats why this FORUMS is probably open to little kids also.. :|

BUt I can seriously tell you this, The way this threads going, I don't see myself being here in the near future.

[Sadiki]

hmm.. To be honest takeing me off the mod group is not going to upset me or anything if it gonna happen, yet I'm not going to ask for it and no one have right to say I will get removed because of my inactivity sinse only mods ( old ones ) I can think of who have been around almoust everyday / week durning their time being moderators are Boos and Nathalie. Sonique have been gone more then once and months, so have Fuzzy, Ghalati, Ngatuny, Me, Vidan, Nuka, Simba 04 and especially our admnis Mufasa and Sarabi. Also Sharifu have been inactive in past few months, but to be honest, if you can get her laptop to charge you must be real good with Laptops, sinse even moving the computer half of inch uselly makes it stop charging.
I agree Mods should be cooperate more and discuss about stuff, but I had a statement on Mod section about it already and I'm not going to bring it here and what comes to makeing it public... It's not going to happen unless Mufasa gonna do it, because even you wouldn't be able to post there, you could always read and then make a thread here to discuss about it. Moderators and Admins really need a place to discuss about stuff privatly and for everyone to see everything in there is not good idea. ( not that there would be anything unresonable bad things said about any of you )
also like Nathalie said beofre about me working and studing all the time it's true and like I said before I give more time for this forum then I give for my friends in person.
But if you guys think Moderator group is better without me, I'm fine with it. I just want to get a reasonable reason and not some lame excuse about being inactive which would make us consider to take half of our moderators off-duty.

[Nephilim]

Not directed at me? Umm...



It may be harsh Neph, But its the truth and you know it is also. If you know that you won't be able to withstand these conditions then why join up to be a moderator yourself? So you can see a forums others can't? Or is it because you want your name in bold so people recoginze you? Or maybe that you want to be able to have certain things others don't.

Or is it that you feel its your job?

But if you can't handle it, Seriously don't accept the offer to Modship.

Hurhur.

It is my personal opinion that most children under 13 should not be online unsupervised, on things such as forums. Little kids on the internet? Very, very bad mistake.

[Kovu The Lion]

Nope when I said you I was talking to EVERY MOD on the Forums,

I mean please tell me another word I could have said other than you? If you can, Then I'll shut my mouth right now.

Well Neph, If you think about it, Why would you need to supervise on a LION KING Forums, Lion King was a kids movie, Or it was supposed to be and the adults got into it also, It stunned both, But parents probably suspect "Oh its a kids site dont worry about it" But aren't they wrong about lea..

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Nope when I said you I was talking to EVERY MOD on the Forums,

I mean please tell me another word I could have said other than you? If you can, Then I'll shut my mouth right now.

Well Neph, If you think about it, Why would you need to supervise on a LION KING Forums, Lion King was a kids movie, Or it was supposed to be and the adults got into it also, It stunned both, But parents probably suspect "Oh its a kids site dont worry about it" But aren't they wrong about lea..

Because, let's be honest, paedophiles aren't going to go to an adults forum to pick up little kids!

[Kovu The Lion]

lmfao, I'm done with you. Not arguing anymore, That post was directed to the mods, everyone of them, Not just you. Accept it or don't.

And true STM, It is a stupid thing to just take away a moderators status because of Inactivity

I'm sure all the mods that are inactive here have VERY good reasons as to why they are inactive.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
lmfao, I'm done with you. Not arguing anymore, That post was directed to the mods, everyone of them, Not just you. Accept it or don't

Hehehe, because you know I'm right. :) And yes, directing it at the mods directs it at me, sweetheart.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Excuse me? How bloody disrespectful can you get? All I said was that people should be responsible for their own actions, and that it is not purely up to me to control your minds. I can deal with it fine, thank you very much.


I was clearly talking about that part you posted about ME being disrespectful just throwing it out upon you Neph. So No, and Yes, You are 1/2 Right. So Thats still not good enough in my opinion so as you say

Blah.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I was clearly talking about that part you posted about ME being disrespectful just throwing it out upon you Neph. So No, and Yes, You are 1/2 Right. So Thats still not good enough in my opinion so as you say

Blah.

Rephrase that please...

[Kovu The Lion]

Half of you is right about it being directed at you, But Half of you wasn't

Half of you that is right = Directed at Moderators (all of them)

Half of you that is wrong = That it was directed at you and only you.


Understand now?

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Half of you is right about it being directed at you, But Half of you wasn't

Half of you that is right = Directed at Moderators (all of them)

Half of you that is wrong = That it was directed at you and only you.


Understand now?

Yes, thank you. <3

[Kovu The Lion]

Glad you understand :) :hugs: Sorry if anything was harassed upon you or if you felt any pain or whatever when I said that. Was just trying to make a point and it came out wrong :|

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Glad you understand :) :hugs: Sorry if anything was harassed upon you or if you felt any pain or whatever when I said that. Was just trying to make a point and it came out wrong :|

Eh, it's just the internets. We all love a good mud slinging at one another now and again. ;) :hugs:

[Sadiki]

by the way, I am not sure if this is mentioned while talked about 13 years or older age limit on this or anyforum. Shouldn't joining be ok if you got permission from your parents even you are under 13? I might have missed something because of yetlag but at least I didn't see that there. And I know someone will say that no one will ever ask their parents, but how can we know if they do. I personaly don't have anything against under 13 year old members being part of community as long as it is ok with their parents.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion

In conclusion: There's no need for arguments like this to take place, especially over something so insignificant... moderators, you do a fine job, don't let anyone tell you differently... I was happy with the way the Lorna and Dekota saga was tackled for example, and in general I am happy with the way other problems have been dealt with. However, there seems to be so 'blowing out of proportion' going on; it really is not that bad here at Lea... I wouldn't go as far as KTL did in saying that you should give up being a moderator if you can't deal with this thread/Lea in general, but I would say that you need to step away for a moment if you're getting stressed over something like this...

iFrame(.) *nodnodnod*

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
moderators, you do a fine job, don't let anyone tell you differently...


Yes yes they do a fine job, But first of all. The Members have a chosen right to actually say the mods are doing bad, I mean look at the poll, It has a thing for "Bad job" basically, and you can't expect the Mods to open a thread and ask how they are doing and everyone just say "Great and dandy" I think by pointing out the things we hate about the mods.

Well, Not hate, Don't like or how things can be changed, Is a good way for the mods to improve Think about it, If someone tells you whats wrong with you and the way you act on a certain thing, Then don't you think you can find a way to change yourself or the way you act on a certain thing if you know what your problem is?

So I think telling people about there bad sides and or things that isn't right is actually a good thing, It gives people as I said, A chance to Improve

[Kovu The Lion]

Well I don't think anyone but myself really said that they were doing a bad job somewhat, But I didn't know what I was talkign about then. I don't see anyone who said they weren't doing a good job, Unless I flew by some posts (Which is probably what I did and I will be told off and an arguement will start again) But Just because someone says something they could improve on, Doesn't mean that the moderators are doing a bad job.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
Yes, but it hurts when people scrutinise your work even when you're trying your hardest, and they concentrate on the bad instead of the good... sometimes, as a natural human trait, it's very easy to overlook the good and concentrate on the bad. It's just like in life sometimes you can think you're having a good day one minute, say for instance you won ?10,000 on the lottery... then for instance you could fall down the stairs and say it was the worst day of your life... Humans have a natural tendency to look on the bad side of things more than the good...

True.

But if everyone just said the moderators were doign perfectly fine, and they weren't actually. Then how could they ever know what to improve on Simba? Sometimes its BEST to focus on the bad things that are going on just so you can solve them faster. Because wherever you go in the world, There will always be something bad/evil to come with you. Because no one, Is perfect.

[Juniper]

Personally, I think the main point of this thread is to point out issues that members may have with how the staff may do things (hence the negatives). Though I do agree that pointing out things we thought were good so that the staff can keep the in mind, I also think that it's important to focus on what can be done better.

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
I'm not saying they're doing a perfect job, but it seems that a lot of negatives are being concentrated on with a distinct lack of positives... It hurts a lot when you try your best, and put time into doing something, then get it basically thrown back into your face... I'm sure that most if not all of the moderators here try their best for the forum...


Correct, Every one of the Moderators here deserve a huge thank you, But Simba, that is the point of this thread, to identify the weaknesses probably in the Moderators, They wanted to know how the Moderators were rated by the members, so they are getting it, Good and the bad.

If you think about it, There isn't much a moderator DOES do.

Unless of course you want us to point out 1000 threads they have locked saying "This doesn't need to go on" or "No point for this being open anymore."

Thats mostly what all the mods do, Close, Merge, Open, Defend there rights,

Members.. They post, Defend there rights.. Thats it. I mean, There seriously isn't a lot that one can compliment the Moderators on but by the following is it:

1) The way they act
2) Way things are handled
3) Respondiblities (Which is way they act but who cares)
4) Activeness in there forums, To show they do care about being a mod and helping out in the forums

And thats really all I can possibly think of, There is a lot more bad things than good because thats usually how it is. :| Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to put down the mods, but really.. This is the truth I do believe xX..

[Kovu The Lion]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
But it can't just be said that the moderators are doing a rubbish job, because they're not... what's the point of constructive criticism if you don't bother at least saying in which areas the moderators are good? They can't be doing EVERYTHING wrongly... How would you feel if you got basically told you were crap at moderating despite working your butt off for a forum? I know that Nathalie in particular has been working very hard to keep up with this forum, and STM went through a phase where he checked every single thread... Now that's dedication...

This post is going to make me look like a complete jackass, (If everyone else can cuss I might as well also)

Well, If I were told that personally I would start to think of how I could change things so that the members couldn't complain about that certain subject or thing. The moderators shouldn't feel like "Crap" Just because people are stating the bad things about them and not as much good stuff.

The first about 10 Pages I think was about how great the mods were, now the last 10 pages are about how bad they are, No?

But in my opinion, If I was a mod right now, I would feel pretty damned good about myself that I at least am Making a mistake and can fix myself up. Because if someone points out a mistake at me, It boosts my confidence to the stars, Because inside I get the feeling "Hey, I can be even better than what I am now" So really, I don't see why the mods should feel bad. But its there feelings and emotions we are talking about, Not my own.. And really I do care for others feelings and emotions, Its just somtimes it doesnt show when I get into "certain debates and issues"

And I bet after this topic everyones reading my posts and thinking this

God damn Kovu is one mean *** person And if you think that, Go ahead. You have all reason to think that, and I don't really care what you think about me either. Because if you can say something to me then go ahead, I give you all right to, It doesn't bother me one bit.

And Wow, I feel good getting to swear :| Maybe we shouldn't have this rule roflmao. :P

EDIT:

Also, If no one was going to state the bad things about the mods, Then who else would? So I guess I am the only one who actually sees some false things with the moderators, and everyone else thinks they are great.. Hmm.. Well nevermind I take that back

@ Lea Moderators - Congratulations, I want to thank you all for being so dedicated to the forums, Mostly Nathalie who has been online everday since she got her admin status until today. That is a lot of devotionm, and a lot of other admins on other forums don't even go that far as to go on EVERY DAY and post at least once in her opinions on a thread.

Then to the Moderators, You guys are a great bunch of people here, Never have I seen such hard working crew as yourselfs, For really you do deserve some good compliments and I want to say, Good job on the way you have handled past events. The main reason why I'm going on about the bad, was I concentrated so much about the bad things about moderators for so long, I never took the time to look at all the good things they had done, and so for that, I am sorry but I do not know a lot that I can complete you guys on, Other than saying

Good job.

[Dare]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
But it can't just be said that the moderators are doing a rubbish job, because they're not... what's the point of constructive criticism if you don't bother at least saying in which areas the moderators are good?

Would you rather the Mods be damned with faint praise?
(I apologize for using the word "damned" but that's the way it's supposed to be phrased)
Ya know, most of the time I try to find some kind of positive reinforcement if I'm going to be critiquing something, but if I can't think of anything off the top of my head, I'm not going to pull some kind of pathetic "you did good" platitude out of my *** just so I can try to make someone feel better while at the same time I?m critiquing them. What?s the point of saying something if you don?t really mean it?
1 sincere thought is worth more than 10 insincere thoughts.

I mean, I can say "Good Job" right now if you want me to, but I'd feel kind of silly saying that, considering how I don't view the entire staff the same...I work on an individual basis.

Really, it's not as if this thread has been a 100% Mod Bashing session...a lot of good, constructive discussion has come out of this thread.
Has anyone been keeping up with the major topic points (for what this thread was original intended for) thus far? I gotta go back and reread this entire thread because I must have missed something...I remember the entire COPPA thing, and then the swear debate...how'd we get to the idea that this thread is exclusively negative feedback?
:confused:

[Sadiki]

I don't know what was the main point of makeing this thread, I guess Nuka can give us an answer for that whenever he has time. But it really seems people are gathering here a lot of things that are bothering them and feedback is always welcome, no matter if it's negative or positive as long as it makes sense. To be honest it's not even possible to make this forum perfect as it is not possible for any forum to be perfect just because everyone of us share diffrend opinions and ways to act and there is no such a thing as right way to act.
I don't know if makeing more moderators or changeing some in the group would help, sinse you can probably imagen yourself in position where someone tells you that something is bugging him/her and then after you act someone else tells that it should have done otherwise or not done at all. It is not just possible to please everyone and I can promise you all that all the moderators including me try to do everything to keep this place enjoyful place to browse for everyone.
If someone thinks that we are here to rule and that we are bragging about being a moderators and that we think that we are in higher level then normal memebers, they are wrong and if someone in moderating group thinks that way they don't belong there.
Every single Moderator have been a member before coming a moderator. And we are doing our job as well as we can, you can't blame us for not finding everything from this forum and if any of you find something there is "Report this post to a moderator " button for those cases.
We are here to help you all, not to bug you or make you unconfortable to post.

[unregistered user]

I wish everyone would stop saying what the thread that I made is about, it's a bit rude. But that's beside the point, mhmm.

So yeah, what is this thread about? I clearly defined exactly what it was originally meant to be. For the most part I've been quite happy the results it has turned out as well. (Discussing swearing and COPPA, and problems that members have had or do have with the mod staff or a member thereof).

But back to the main point of this thread. The starting post I made stated


Originally posted by Nuka
Before I begin this post, I want to say that I know there is already a thread just like this one. However since this is a question that can easily change people's opinions over time, it has been remade.

What better time to state how one feels about the mods then the beginning of a new year?

So, by all means let us know what we're doing right and wrong in your opinion. Feel free to give suggestions for improvement on our part, and feel free to offer up any suggestions for improvement to the forum that we might be able to carry out.

So.. without further blabbing from me.. how do you feel about the moderator, and administrator staff here at Lea Halalela?

^There's the beginning post in this thread (edited for spelling errors mind you =P )

I think though that my second post more better defines what I originally meant. And since I am after all the creator of this thread... I think when asked what this thread is for, my opinion on the matter just might have a bit more cred. to it.. but that's me <.<

Anyway, second post of mine:


Originally posted by Nuka
I made this post because I remembered a similar thread being made around the same time last year (at least i think it was around the same time).

And the moderating staff should always listen to what the members are saying, after all we are working ont heir behalf, it would be illogical and just plain silly to pay no attention to them.

That said, as Utora stated there are real people behind these screens with real feelings. And while I personally and I believe the other mods as well accept constructive criticism, please leave it at that, as we have feelings as well. The active mods do their best, that much I do know.

I believe there is always room for improvement and would like to know exactly what we can do to make it better.

Though I count Ngatuny and STM as good dear friends of mine, I must agree that they haven't really been active lately, not that a good mod is a person who is constantly active. A good mod is a person who is responsible, not afraid to take action when needed, doesn't think themselves higher than anyone else in the forum, but also doesn't abuse the priviledge they've been offered. At least that's my definition..

I personally am very happy that members have come forward to say what the mods and admins need to know. I am sorry to see you go though Utora. The whole point of this thread is to help make Lea a better place to be in. I wish you farewell though if you have decided to leave, and hope that I have not offended you, for I haven't meant to. If so I wish you'd tell me what I did so we could sort it out.

And with that said.. any other suggestions?

So, there you have it folks. Just thought I'd clear up this little condundrum for all o' us.

[unregistered user]

The COPPA "issue" will be dealt with by Mufasa. He plans (don't know when) on upgrading the vBulletin version to 2.3.8. So a privacy policy mandating the bug isn't necessary ATT.

The swearing issue is still to be resolved, an amendment could be in the wake of the Pride Rules.

Yes, we the mods could use some improvement, after our lobotomy . . .

;)

[Simbaspirit]

*raises paw* whats a lobotomy?? sorry to be off topic:eww:

[Kovu The Lion]

Thank you for pointing out the real reason of the thread, and I did see "Right and wrongs" IN your first post so I gave some bad and good, and it seemed to bring up a huge debate Oo.. Kinda glad Sonique did swear, GO SONIQUE :D Jk, :hugs: :)

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Simbaspirit
*raises paw* whats a lobotomy?? sorry to be off topic:eww:

A technique formerly used to treat certain mental disorders but now rarely performed.

We don't want to end up like Flippy, do we?
http://happytreefriends.atomfilms.com/watch_episodes/flash/play.asp?episode=flippin

:evilgrin: :lol: ;)

[Vidan]

Originally posted by Simbaspirit
*raises paw* whats a lobotomy?? sorry to be off topic:eww:

I think he was being sarcastic. ;) Although sometimes, Sonique, my friend, I wish you would just say what you mean to say without breaking out the big words. :p


Originally posted by Wicked
I gotta go back and reread this entire thread because I must have missed something...I remember the entire COPPA thing, and then the swear debate...how'd we get to the idea that this thread is exclusively negative feedback?
:confused:

Those issues are indeed being worked on. I PMed Mufasa to look into fixing the current problem with COPPA registration and profile accessibility, though this is something that he's been planning for awhile. Hopefully that'll escalate things.

We will come to some sort of consensus about swearing since people seem to be concerned about it. So this thread will definitely not go to waste. =)

To address your question, Nephilim -- why this forum isn't 13+ -- in fact, it is. We will need to see about getting parental consent for those in the forum who are under 13 and ensure that it is received for new registrations. We have been lax about it in the past, but we can't anymore, particularly because it's been pointed out as a concern which unfortunately we've overlooked. But it's law.

So, guys and gals, the support is appreciated but we certainly aren't looking for a pat on the back. We have some good suggestions to work off of, and you are all encouraged to share anything on your mind about how we can improve the forum.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Vidan
I think he was being sarcastic. ;) Although sometimes, Sonique, my friend, I wish you would just say what you mean to say without breaking out the big words. :p

Ah, ya just know me too well...

*meditates and floats away into space*

Oh, look! It's Another Tomato!

[Kovu The Lion]

It is true, But if I were to hear nothing but bad news for a long time, It would get annoying :| but this isn't about the way I Would do feel about it, Its the way the Moderators of Lea are feeling about it.

I've gave already what I expect from the Moderators, And what I think they should work on, And it was a good feeling to possibly help out, And as Vidan said, Lea members don't feel bad to point out a mistake or something wrong or something you think the Moderators should work on. Point it out so they can fix it and possibly change and make it better :)

And with that, I do say, Goodbye to this thread since I don't see a point in Posting in it anymore :P Good luck with the rest of the Moderation stuff.

[ChildOfThePride]

I would now, after reflection, like to retract my comments about Nephilim.

I am sorry, Neph.

I am sorry those I have argued with.

[unregistered user]

Cussing.

-"Cussing," and its relative effect towards the human norm:

It's a bothersome subject. Not just because it's socially inept, because it also brings a wide conundrum of problems. At this time, an amendment is pending to the Pride Rules, and most likely take effect in the near future. But before this is done, there are some areas of concern that need to be carefully "looked-over." There's a reference l|nk below to better understand the situation at its broadest peak.

-> http://people.howstuffworks.com/swearing.htm (.)

*A forum-wide vote will be issued very soon to tackle this problem and hopefully it'll have an ending relevance.

More issues are being worked out ATT, Woes is doing an outstanding job of this; let's hope resolution goes well...

[nathalie]

I'm gonna admit, I haven't read this whole thing yet, I'm too tired at the moment.

I just wanna say thanks for those who kind of stick up for me in here, meaning about the being on-line thing, and all that (I think STL said something about it).

Even though I know, that the things I do around here aren't always perfect and such.
So I'm gonna try and change that.

[Mufasa]

I should note (regarding COPPA) that as I examined my settings I remember purposely disabling COPPA so children wouldn't have difficulty signing up for what I thought would be a tame and PG site. It's quite obvious this isn't quite the case anymore, so I'm going to enable COPPA again.

[unregistered user]

|^| Finally, some clarification. = )

[Juniper]

Thanks for the update, Mufasa, glad to have that one worked out :)


Edit:

But now I'm a bit concerned about something else, we're not gonna get rid of members younger than 13 because of this, I hope? That was never my intent, only to keep the forum legal, not cause problems for current members.

[King Simba]

Hmm, well I say keep the younger members seeing as it really wouldn't be fair but keep it enabled in the future to prevent more sign-ups (for the younger members) probably and of course follow the ToS and keep the forum itself legal?

Though thanks for clearing that up, Mufasa. :)

[unregistered user]

Look like TLK is really a PG 13 Movie and forum too :idiot: J/K
Good question Pntbll, I was thinkin the same thing.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Mufasa
I should note (regarding COPPA) that as I examined my settings I remember purposely disabling COPPA so children wouldn't have difficulty signing up for what I thought would be a tame and PG site. It's quite obvious this isn't quite the case anymore, so I'm going to enable COPPA again.

Hurrah! Nice one.

[Vidan]

Originally posted by King Simba
Hmm, well I say keep the younger members seeing as it really wouldn't be fair but keep it enabled in the future to prevent more sign-ups (for the younger members) probably and of course follow the ToS and keep the forum itself legal?

As far as I know that's how it's going to operate.

[nathalie]

May I also add, that the mods are also just members of this place, who laugh and cry along with all the other members of this board.

Ok, we have "power" over the board, we can do things members can't.
But still, we aren't only here, just to moderate this place.

All mods here do their best and to come on-line whenever they can, to interact with everyone, to talk and discuss just like every other member on this board.

I've been sick a few times, and still, I can't help myself from dragging my behind to the PC and see what goes on here, because I just miss this place.
And I don't miss it like: ooh, I'm gonna close lots of stuff again today *yay*
No, I miss this place, because I miss talking along with everyone here.

[unregistered user]

Vidan made some good points early on, and I agree with him undoubtedly. We should have a privacy policy, and I'm sure of it this time, per Federal Trade Commission's Rule.

We shall do so, if permitted, ASAP.

[Monai]

Well, if they're getting rid of me: it's been fun, guys. XD