Moderator Approval Ratings... [Archive] - Page 2

Juniper

March 8th, 2006, 10:39 PM

Sorry for the ancient revival, but given the fact that there's a lot of members tearing down the mods, and mods getting into it with members, I think it may be appropriate to give another chance for both members and moderators to have a way to talk about the issue. If we just leave this issue be, it'll most likely escalate. Try to remain mature.

There are things I'm perceiving, not accusing:

It seems as though there's been... situations... lately where a moderator or two will blow something out of proportion, and it seems like they're doing it to beat their chests in front of the forum. That may be true, and it may not be true, I dunno, but that's what I've been perceiving.

Also, I'm a bit concerned that it seems as though the moderators have stepped over the line of their duties, as after having a few conversations with a few moderators over MSN concerning these situations, it seems as though the moderators think it's their job to be teaching us morals and how to behave. That's not your job, and it's not your job to be deciding who's right and wrong in an argument, and it's not your job to be acting like our mommies and daddies; it's your job to make sure the rules are enforced and the peace of the forum is kept. If a rule is enforced, just enforce it and move on; if you want to add to the discussion as an individual member, then I'd highly suggest emphasizing that you're speaking as a member and that your opinion had no weight in the rules being enforced.

By far, the biggest issue I've heard from other members is that they think that some of the staff act too rash and emotional when making a call; or worse, keeping grudges and letting that control their moderating actions. That's not a good thing, guys, and it need fixed if that is the case.

I also think some members need to back off the staff. By my knowledge, they're not out to ruin someone's day, and they are human. I've seen a complete disregard for the basal level of respect that every human being deserves, and frankly, the staff is being treated like crap.

Look, it's pretty clear that there's some issues between the mods and the members; the mods, by my understanding, are getting fed up with it, and the members, by my understanding, don't think things are getting dealt with properly. Let's try to get that worked out?

Kovu The Lion

March 8th, 2006, 10:53 PM

I agree totally with Pnt upon this one, this thread was a good idea to bump up, These need to be resolved now

Problems are getting way out of hand here, Though I'm not goign to say anything about anyone in this thread, for what I will say. Will only bring people to harass what I say, or the members get offended because the mods, and members are "friends"

Dare

March 8th, 2006, 11:00 PM

As much as I hate doing the "me too" thing, Pnt has already said everything that I would have...particularly the part about emotional judgement calls and grudges...

so...

*zippos for Pntball*
http://wickedcircus.homestead.com/files/Other/2004_Icons/iconzippo.gif

Anywho, hasta Domingo amigos. Buena suerte and all that jazz.
:ayecapn:

Tiikeri

March 8th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by pntbll248
Sorry for the ancient revival, but given the fact that there's a lot of members tearing down the mods, and mods getting into it with members, I think it may be appropriate to give another chance for both members and moderators to have a way to talk about the issue. If we just leave this issue be, it'll most likely escalate. Try to remain mature.

There are things I'm perceiving, not accusing:

It seems as though there's been... situations... lately where a moderator or two will blow something out of proportion, and it seems like they're doing it to beat their chests in front of the forum. That may be true, and it may not be true, I dunno, but that's what I've been perceiving.

Also, I'm a bit concerned that it seems as though the moderators have stepped over the line of their duties, as after having a few conversations with a few moderators over MSN concerning these situations, it seems as though the moderators think it's their job to be teaching us morals and how to behave. That's not your job, and it's not your job to be deciding who's right and wrong in an argument, and it's not your job to be acting like our mommies and daddies; it's your job to make sure the rules are enforced and the peace of the forum is kept. If a rule is enforced, just enforce it and move on; if you want to add to the discussion as an individual member, then I'd highly suggest emphasizing that you're speaking as a member and that your opinion had no weight in the rules being enforced.

By far, the biggest issue I've heard from other members is that they think that some of the staff act too rash and emotional when making a call; or worse, keeping grudges and letting that control their moderating actions. That's not a good thing, guys, and it need fixed if that is the case.

I also think some members need to back off the staff. By my knowledge, they're not out to ruin someone's day, and they are human. I've seen a complete disregard for the basal level of respect that every human being deserves, and frankly, the staff is being treated like crap.

Look, it's pretty clear that there's some issues between the mods and the members; the mods, by my understanding, are getting fed up with it, and the members, by my understanding, don't think things are getting dealt with properly. Let's try to get that worked out?
Seconded, thirded, fourthed, and so on...

Aurelian

March 9th, 2006, 12:05 AM

It isn't just mods vs regs. There is a lot of confusion in the mod forum right now, too. What, with Nathalie's unexpected dissapearence and all.

For those who arn't aware, due to tenichal issues with her computer, Nathalie is temporaraly unavailable. She should be back by the end of the week.

I think being a mod has done more harm to me as a person then good. I have gone as far as sacrificing my time, energy, and even freindships and stressing myself out over it.(Didn't help that I was babysitting at an even bigger forum for a mod freind of mine for a few weeks) I understand what you are saying about some of the mods, Pnt, and I have brought it up in the mod forum. I mentioned how I felt we were giving you guys very little freedom, and how I, myself, am feeling more like a prison guard then a forum protector.

I know I have alwasy been badly over-sensitive. I tend to frown on the slightest thing. However, I know when to back off. I let the cigarette post stay open(I swear I had nothing to do with STM closing that!), even though I personally disagreed with that. I decided you were able to handle that. I don't think anybody has a problem with me, as I have recieved no PMs or complaints about anything I did.

unregistered user

March 9th, 2006, 12:06 AM

I had this crazy idea that lea is a rebelious teenager and the mods its worn out parents, i know it isnt so, so dont jump on me, it was just a funny thought i had, oh and i laughed so.

I think all members need to realise that you dont have to attack so viciously if you see something you dont like because that will just end up in a locked thread, unhappy feelings/emotions, lea divided into more groups than it already is etc etc.

all members include the mods

I shouldnt say anything thought because i rarely think before i act :E

ChildOfThePride

March 9th, 2006, 12:18 AM

I think the issue is, with members getting mad because of locked threads and such, etc..., for some reasons dupe threads are getting locked and stuff.

Mods, if I am correct, there is a merging feature available with vB. Why don't you use that instead of locking a thread?

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 12:30 AM

No offense but this is what I think about this one CToP

Lately I've seen Neph, no offense to her, and a few other mods, having closed things with rather sarcastic comments, or "Omg not one of these again" Posts at the end, and then close it. Because they can get the last word in and not worry about it anymore.

Sorry if I'm wrong, I just see it as that.

And sometimes CToP there is no other thread that you can merge it with. Or they are just to lazy to merge and feel closing is easier to do and wont waste time.

EDIT:

and by the way, this **** here (http://www.leahalalela.com/showthread.php?postid=277545#post277545) Has got to stop.

If you are going to close something that was made by the forums, and something that was actually worth talking about. How about giving us a reason and not just say "its closed" or "thread closed"

That leaves me to think. That just because a thread doesnt seem fit to you, You don't want us talking in it.

Sombolia

March 9th, 2006, 12:35 AM

Yeahhh, I didn't quite understand why the Smoking thread was closed. Someone care to fill me in?

ChildOfThePride

March 9th, 2006, 12:38 AM

Dude, I'm talking about the duplicate threads, like "not this again". Instead of saying that, why can't they just merge the threads? Obviously, if they say it's a 'not this again' then they can just as easily merge that with the existing thread. More often than not there's a duplicate thread.

Also, there needs to be less 'personal' reasons for closing a thread. Or at least find a more diplomatic way to put it....Neph saying 'HEY REMEMBER WHEN NEPH MADE THAT REALLY COOL ADVICE THREAD' isn't going to help an already stressful situation....Just quietly merge the threads and let it be done.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 12:40 AM

Yeah, I kinda have to agree about the closing of that thread, I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't have stayed open outside of personal biases against the subject. It was neither obscene, nor inappropriate otherwise; the only thing I could have seen that would have possibly justified it was Utora and I's little micro-scuff, and we took that off the forum, solved it, and got on with our lives. I just don't get it, guys; I mean, we allow threads on gay marriage and the like that can be very personally damaging to someone who's basically having their worth to society and civil rights therein debated, but we can't have a smoking thread? I'm not accusing someone, but I think there was something else playing in on that one.

Sombolia

March 9th, 2006, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by ChildOfThePride
Also, there needs to be less 'personal' reasons for closing a thread. Or at least find a more diplomatic way to put it....Neph saying 'HEY REMEMBER WHEN NEPH MADE THAT REALLY COOL ADVICE THREAD' isn't going to help an already stressful situation....Just quietly merge the threads and let it be done.

Yes, but I think regardless of stress, people should still be expected to follow the rules. It's right there, it's pinned, it's pretty damn noticable - I think there's a right to be pissed off if everyone keeps ignoring it.

ChildOfThePride

March 9th, 2006, 12:46 AM

But Sombolia, instead of saying those things, wouldn't it just be easier to merge the threads? Honestly....It's like three clicks. Not too big of a deal, and if you've got enough time to police the boards you certainly have enough time to make two little clicks.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 12:55 AM

I'm also a bit concerned that it just seems like we, the members, are starting to lose faith in the moderating staff. Just because Nathalie isn't here is no reason why the forum can't run like clockwork; if there's a thread that needs dealt with (and you have a good reason to deal with it), close it. If another moderator sees it fit that the thread be re-opened, then they can take it up with the person that closed it and get it worked out; same with a member wanting the thread re-opened.* Also, there's no reason why moderators need to be making excessive decisions based on the fact that they were "offended", especially when that member makes an honest effort to mend the wounds they caused, and past that, it seems petty. It seems like it's a matter of "I've got the power, you don't, don't tread on me"; regardless of whether that's the case or not, that's a general feeling that I've noticed is growing amongst at least a dozen or so members, and most likely more. If we lose faith in the staff, regardless of whether they've done something wrong or not, it needs fixed, and the only way to fix that is to gain our trust back (which takes time, it can't be done in a day, week, or even month to a full extent).

A more personal issue I have is that at least two of the moderators love using big words when dealing with an issue. Now, that's nothing bad in of itself, but when dealing with people that may be losing faith in the staff, it seems a bit degrading to be using words that require a trip to the dictionary. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, but that's just my personal recommendation, as it could seem like you're trying to sound better than that person being dealt with when you're doing something that involves enforcing the rules. Again, I love it when people use the english language to its fullest extent, but there's a time and a place when it's not appropriate. And it's not just that, some other moderators seem to quote the person from a different thread and shove that in their face; that's just being immature. When dealing with the issue, it should be dealt with in a way that the person in question can relate to, so that they get what's going on, and I don't mean that justifies quoting them out of spite.

*On that tangent, I'd like the request that the smoking thread be re-opened.

Aurelian

March 9th, 2006, 02:04 AM

Well, you guys have one less mod to worry about. Effective this moment, I am resigning from my position as moderator.

This is long time in coming for me. Lea has comletly lost it's beauty to me. I have lost almost all of my freinds, and today, I was hurt worse then I ever have been in my life. When I found mysel crying because one of my best best freinds stabbed me in the back because "...you are a mod", I knew it was he end of the road. I have no regrests, as I have been miserable for awhile now. As much as I like helping to keep the forum clean and peaceful, I find myself unable to do my job, and I am going emotionally insane.

ChildOfThePride

March 9th, 2006, 02:08 AM

Roquivo, please don't resign. You were one of the mods I respected here.

Instead of relieving yourself of the moderating position, please, just ditch that 'friend'...

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 02:10 AM

That wasn't the point of my bringing this thread back, Roquivo, I wanted to help avoid this situation by having the members and mods talk about it. Bud, we're all human, we all get emotional, I'll be the first to raise my hand to that one. You're not a bad mod, and I'm not gonna make you cahnge your mind, but give it a bit more thought. We, lea, need to stick together now, not draw apart.

You're still a person, and if another is harrassing you, then that needs dealt with. I don't know the situation, so I can't say much on it, but you should command the same respect as anyone else, and you do not deserve to be treated like dirt. Likewise though, I'd make sure that person actually intended what you are thinking they intended, miscommunications happen very easily over the internet

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 02:43 AM

I want to know this.

Why the heck is Reporting people gotten so popular now? I mean I didn't see anyone post this

"Oh yeah, and reported you offend me."

"Reported because its offensive"

"Reported because you are harassing."

What is up with people and reporting now, It seems now no matter what you do, or what you say. Or at least for me it is. That if you don't read over 5 times what you post, you might be reported for it because it "offends" someone. It seems now you can't even state you're own opinions on a certain topic or two, because you're opinions on somethign might not agree with someone elses and they get all whiney and ticked off, and report you.

I want to know what got people back into reporting people. IF you had a problem with people about 3 months ago, you would talk to them on a messenger or in PMs and settle things there, and then everything was afine and we went on. Now everyones reporting each other like this is world war 3 or something. I mean come on really.

If everyone keeps reporting each other, there will be nomore members in Lea left. :| It seems a bit ridiculous to report people, especially if you are a Moderator, because you are reporting them, To yourselves... I mean.. Really..xX
and it seems now with every post I make I have to add this

By the way, This post is not meant to harm anyone, or point fingers or hurt someone in any way at all. It is my opinion on the subject and its how I feel.

And sometimes, still you get reported if you posted that.

and so once again

I didn't mean any harm in this thread, I just wanna know whats up..

Also, this thread was not made by me to stir up trouble, so if any flames come into It, I will personally delete it for you guys (the mods) ;P

~KTL

Azerane

March 9th, 2006, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by pntbll248
if there's a thread that needs dealt with (and you have a good reason to deal with it), close it. If another moderator sees it fit that the thread be re-opened, then they can take it up with the person that closed it and get it worked out; same with a member wanting the thread re-opened.*

I just want to highlight that point. Because it's absolutly right.

TakaTiger

March 9th, 2006, 02:49 AM

its not that hard not to get reported, i dont beleve i have ever gotten reported, and know alot of people here who never have... so that something for you to figure out

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by TakaTiger
its not that hard not to get reported, i dont beleve i have ever gotten reported, and know alot of people here who never have... so that something for you to figure out

I know its not hard. But it seems to me, if you post you're opinion in a topic, at least someone is going to be offended, meaning they can report.

I just dont' understand why we have threads.. Umm hmm like, things asking about two different sides of a story, or opinion on a certain topic, like smoking, or a debate, at least one person has to be offended.. One person always is.. and one person always reports...

~KTL

Utora

March 9th, 2006, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
I want to know this.

Why the heck is Reporting people gotten so popular now? I mean I didn't see anyone post this

"Oh yeah, and reported you offend me."

"Reported because its offensive"

"Reported because you are harassing."

What is up with people and reporting now, It seems now no matter what you do, or what you say. Or at least for me it is. That if you don't read over 5 times what you post, you might be reported for it because it "offends" someone. It seems now you can't even state you're own opinions on a certain topic or two, because you're opinions on somethign might not agree with someone elses and they get all whiney and ticked off, and report you.

I want to know what got people back into reporting people. IF you had a problem with people about 3 months ago, you would talk to them on a messenger or in PMs and settle things there, and then everything was afine and we went on. Now everyones reporting each other like this is world war 3 or something. I mean come on really.

If everyone keeps reporting each other, there will be nomore members in Lea left. :| It seems a bit ridiculous to report people, especially if you are a Moderator, because you are reporting them, To yourselves... I mean.. Really..xX
and it seems now with every post I make I have to add this

And sometimes, still you get reported if you posted that.

and so once again

I didn't mean any harm in this thread, I just wanna know whats up..

Also, this thread was not made by me to stir up trouble, so if any flames come into It, I will personally delete it for you guys (the mods) ;P

~KTL

LEA is emotional currently. You notice alot of the oldies hangin' around, still breathin' good air. The new folk start things up, and this bothers alot of peeps. Between last year of this time, and this date - alot of crock has gone down and there's been this shift in lea. The mentallity has swerved much. I don't see lea as a TLK oriented place anymore, as much as I'd like to be and then some, I think it's kind of lost that effect.

So people are always in the hot seat, gotta best the next man. I said something and now I want a reason to report it. If you've ever been to a hobo's area - they're constantly fighting like this. They got nothing better to do than fight their homeless neighbour.

EDIT : Freedom of speech is now, "Say it = war." . Everyones on a tip of a pin ready for action , alot of folks are emmo. There's no character here.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 03:01 AM

I have to agree, guys. Lea's been acting pretty pathetic lately. This whole, "I don't like what you said so I'm gonna tattle on you" crap needs to stop; seems like everyone's out to complain. How many threads have been closed this week? or this month? Too many, guys, and it's starting to get a tad annoying.

I'm not accusing any one person, I'm to blame as well, but there's a complete lack of respect for eachother on this forum. We're literally bickering like little children in threads nowadays. Look, we say we're mature adults, but if I was a person standing outside looking in, I'd be thinking it's time to change all our diapers right about now.

So here's what we're gonna do if we want this solved:

1. We're gonna realize that every person on here is a living, breathing person. They love, hate, hope, and cry. Yes, this is just an internet forum, but some people rely on it more than others, and that just has to be accepted. Likewise, we all act a bit emotional at times, let's accept that, work through it, and take it in stride. I've been very emotional lately, I'm trying to work through that, but we all have to realize that everyone is human.

2. We're going to start realizing what we're doing before we do it. Before we report a post, we need to ask ourselves why we're reporting it. Is it because we're angry and want to get back at the person? Is it because the person attacked you in a way that legitimately breaks the rules? Is there another option to defuse the situation that would not involve a moderator's intervention? Does the crime fit the punishment?

3. If we do report a person, we're going to realize that there's no reason to get in the last word, the situation will be dealt with. There's no reason to say "Reported you to the mods", that's just being petty to do so in public; go to the person through PM and let them know.

4. We're going to let that person be in the future. Chances are, we had something to do with that person getting worked up, and we don't want to contribute to that in the future if we're really just concerned with our well-being on the forum. We realize that every person is responsible for his/her actions, but we don't want to egg that person on.

Vidan

March 9th, 2006, 03:03 AM

I don't see a problem with reporting something as long as it's something you think violates the Pride Rules, decency, or common sense.

In other words, something that a moderator can actually do something about.

You can feel free to let another member know by PM or in a thread itself that you aren't comfortable with something he or she said, as long as you word it simply and don't flame him or her. Plan on forgiving them or at least letting it go if they apologize or express some regret, or if it's a one-time deal.

It isn't the moderators' job to restrict people's opinions into a politically-correct little box, so we can't always act on every post that is reported. Additionally, people will always have different opinions. It's a fact of life.

Think before you press the button. Post-reporting abuse is a no-no in forum etiquette. Feel free to use it if you have to, but use your own good judgement and don't jump the gun.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 03:06 AM

@Vidan: I think the issue is more a problem with reporting abuse, though it's not just limited to reporting things via the "Report this post to a moderator" button. It's threatening to report something, or using that as a means of compromise. It's also just a blatant case of "I wanna be right" syndrome, that has nothing to do with reporting people at all.

I'm personally getting the vibe of a general feeling of this forum degrading. That feeling's been around for a while, and seems to flare up from time to time, but it's been increasing steadily throughout the years this forum has existed. It may be due in part to old members remembering how the forum used to be, a family, and new members seeing the forum for what it is now, a forum. It also seems to be just plain immaturity. Hell, I remember a year and a half ago, moderation was lenient, members regarded eachother as a second family, and this place just didn't have as many issues. With more people, that's changed, and I think it's turned into a battle of wits nowadays.

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by Vidan
I don't see a problem with reporting something as long as it's something you think violates the Pride Rules, decency, or common sense.

That is the problem though (Not tryign to call you out Vidan)

Some people post things "I'm reporting you" For something that wasn't even against the Pride Rules!

Sure harassing people is against the Pride Rules, but giving you're opinion about a group In whole isn't considered harassment seeing you didn't call that person that name or said something about them. You just state what you think, and just because it offends them because they are part of that opinion, they report you.. and say it offended them, and.. yeah it goes from there :\

I agree, 100% with Pnt on this..

~KTL

Vidan

March 9th, 2006, 03:11 AM

(EDITED)

@ KTL, Pnt: Okay. I'm not a moderator of Scar's Lair so I don't see the bulk of reported posts, so I'm not sure how many of these threats actually turn into real reported posts, and how many of these reported posts actually violated the pride rules.

I'll put it very simply: threatening to report someone is effectively useless. Either you just go ahead and press the button, or take a deep breath and let it go.

Just don't report anything that we moderators can't do anything about, or is so petty that we won't do anything about it. If you're not sure where the line is drawn, take a step back and think about it from our perspective.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by Vidan

I'll put it very simply: threatening to report someone is effectively useless. Either you just go ahead and press the button, or take a deep breath and let it go.

You get to be my hero for the day.

Yeah, so, I agree with that. Sounds reasonable to me, at least.

Xinithian

March 9th, 2006, 03:14 AM

This thread has been REPORTED!!!

But in all seriousness, I don't see what's the point of reporting something, unless if it's spam. I agree with pnt on this issue.

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 03:15 AM

Rofl @ Xin, Thats the BS I'm talking about :D ! (Not being serious btw)

But yeah Vidan, thats exactly what I made this thread for, The spam Reports that are sent out. Still if you are reported and soeone says you are, you get REALLY worried. I've been through it, about.. 3 to four times now Its NERVE wracking. Even if the report is ignored, you don't know it is >>

~KTL

Vidan

March 9th, 2006, 03:23 AM

@KTL: I think I see what you mean now. Been spending the last hour responding to moderation-related threads. It gets tiring. :p

If you (anybody) are going to report a post, just report it and let the moderators of that forum do their job. Don't threaten anybody with reports. Don't say if you did or not. That amounts to a personal attack. You are no better off in a moderator's eyes than the person who made the post. In fact, it's worse. You've just made it personal, even if it was not the poster's intention to make a personal attack.

Vidan

March 9th, 2006, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by pntbll248
It seems as though there's been... situations... lately where a moderator or two will blow something out of proportion

...

Also, I'm a bit concerned that it seems as though the moderators have stepped over the line of their duties .... If a rule is enforced, just enforce it and move on.

...

By far, the biggest issue I've heard from other members is that they think that some of the staff act too rash and emotional when making a call.

...

Look, it's pretty clear that there's some issues between the mods and the members; the mods, by my understanding, are getting fed up with it, and the members, by my understanding, don't think things are getting dealt with properly. Let's try to get that worked out?

I hear what you're saying and I think every one of the mods including myself has room for improvement. Team work and a consistent response should be the goal, and I think we have room for improvement there too.

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by Vidan
I hear what you're saying and I think every one of the mods including myself has room for improvement. Team work and a consistent response should be the goal, and I think we have room for improvement there too.

Not only do the mods need to improve, The members, even myself, Need to cut down on this crap we do in relation to the moderators.

If something doesnt go our way, we sometimes complain, as myself do sometimes..

What I see now is people saying this

The Mods

The Members

WTF I just realized something

we are all human.. omfg.. imagine that, I think the first thing we need to do and get through our heads is the fact that, we are classifying the members of Lea, as two sets of people, The Moderators, and The Members

its like a war! Geesh! We need to combine ourselves into one, One group, called Lea Halalela ?!?! WOOT Mkay yeah.

I don't know what else to say other than that...

~KTL

Vidan

March 9th, 2006, 03:45 AM

You're right. Imagine that, a forum where everyone can unite for a common purpose -- to share our common appreciation of a movie called the Lion King and talk in a friendly way about things of mutual interest. I'd like to be a member of that forum. Maybe this forum can be just that. Depends on all of us.

Naturally we're going to have differences of opinion along the way, but there are two little guidelines I think we could all benefit from:

1) Be Respectful.

2) Be Forgiving.

I'd explain in more detail but I think these speak for themselves. Discuss at will.

Sadiki

March 9th, 2006, 04:54 AM

The thing why so many threads been closed is mostly because people can't talk mature about stuff, they just keep attacking on others opinions. You can disagree about something and let out your own opinion, but you don't have to be disrespectful about it.
Then I have gotten several complaint about Nephilim and the way she post on some threads and I can agree that her way to make post can be pretty abusive sometime, but I think it happens just because she is getting annoied of so called "stupid / pointless " threads. I'm not saying every thread have to have a point tho.

And third. There is very little that seperate mods from members and every mod have been member once, so keep that in mind when you starting to confront us. On this bored just some thing are not allowed like swearing and abusing other memebers, so try to keep your nerves in control and obey those rules. It can't be that hard. Are you guys thinking that it's easy to take care of a forum and keep order in there? Come on we got our own lifes too, we are here for you, not because we want to make your life like a real pain.

I don't want to offend anyone, but look into mirror and tell what you find.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
I don't want to offend anyone, but look into mirror and tell what you find.

By what I'm gathering, that's what the members want to tell the moderators as well (realizing that setting them aside as two different groups doesn't help). I guess it's a matter of some members want some of the staff to put themselves in the memebers' shoes and realize that maybe the staff may not be enforcing the rules as they should be. Would you want someone over-bearing on your every word, closing a thread with a harsh come-back that can't be responded to, dealing with things based on personal biases, etc...? Regardless of whether any of that is true, that's the vibe I've been getting lately, as well as at least a few other people. Now, we can argue about it, or we can fix it, I'll leave that up to everyone else to decide as well, but once we all decide to fix any problems there may be, we can move on from there. I don't, however, feel that anyone here is attacking the staff, only voicing concerns that they, as members of lea, have every right to voice. Guess I get the feeling that you feel we're being too hard on you, while I think we have every right to voice a concern, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I promise that nothing I said had any mal-intent. No one here said it is easy to manage a forum, we simply stated our concerns that the way it's currently being managed may need some improvement.

Sadiki

March 9th, 2006, 05:29 AM

well ok how would you act if you were a moderator/admin and...

1. there would bef swearing on borad even swearing it usealess in every situation and not allowed on this board.

2. two memebers are getting on each others nerves and start serious arguing about something and being disrespectful on each other opinion.

3. People makeing tons of threads about the most random things you can think of or about death of people who bearly anyone even knows.

lion_roog

March 9th, 2006, 05:35 AM

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 05:39 AM

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
well ok how would you act if you were a moderator/admin and...

1. there would bef swearing on borad even swearing it usealess in every situation and not allowed on this board.

2. two memebers are getting on each others nerves and start serious arguing about something and being disrespectful on each other opinion.

3. People makeing tons of threads about the most random things you can think of or about death of people who bearly anyone even knows.

1. While I don't think that all swearing is "Useless", and saying so shows a lack of understanding of communication, I would remind the person not to swear if it became an issue. If it was an outrageous and on-going problem, I'd find a way to talk to the person one-on-one; either through lea's chat, PM, or IM, and try to get it solved. If it continued, I'd issue a warning through PM and not embarrass them publicly, and I would not dwell on it. I would probably edit out those words if they were obscene (there's a difference between "hell" and the f-bomb) and let the thread continue unhampered.

2. I would ask those poeple to drop it, while not actually taking a side in the argument, and if they didn't and it got out of hand, I'd close the thread for an hour or two just to let everyone cool down, collect themselves, and then re-open it so everyone gets it worked out. I'm a firm believer in an individual's ability to solve arguments themselves, without the help of someone coddling them through it.

3. One, I don't think it would be my place as a moderator to judge the validity of a thread concerning the death of another human being. That may be very important to a member, especially if that member knew this person, and I would in no situation close that thread based solely on that. If it's random, I'd move it to the random forum and the situation's dealt with.

Throughout all of these situations, I would try not to make personal judgements on the person, only their actions (as anyone who knows me can vouch, I try very hard to never judge a person); I would also ensure I show the utmost respect to that person and the others involved, as respect is also a core value of mine.

Sombolia

March 9th, 2006, 05:42 AM

Because Lea is acting like a hormonal teenager at the moment.

Srsly, I don't think it's just reporting, the whole forum's been pretty whack for a while now, and it's coming to the surface again.

And um, everything there is to say has been said, soo..

ETA:

But yeah Vidan, thats exactly what I made this thread for, The spam Reports that are sent out. Still if you are reported and soeone says you are, you get REALLY worried. I've been through it, about.. 3 to four times now Its NERVE wracking. Even if the report is ignored, you don't know it is >>

Wellll, if you didn't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have to worry- as I think most people here are forgiving souls. Guilty conscience, perhaps? :evilgrin:

ETA2: Er, that last part? Joking. :3

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Sombolia
Wellll, if you didn't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have to worry- as I think most people here are forgiving souls. Guilty conscience, perhaps? :evilgrin:

I think in KTL's case, it seems as though he's been unfairly reported at least twice that I know of in what seems to be a matter of forum-scapegoating. I think it's wrong how he's being treated, as people aren't really giving him a chance lately (based on personal grudges), and they're egging him on only to report him later on. If that is the case, which I think it is, then this is a problem that must end now, and if it is true, then it is both sick and cruel.

But this is not about KTL, and this thread should not become about KTL; it is about reporting abuse, and a general lack of respect.

Edit: Sorry about that, Somby. No hard feelings?

This Land

March 9th, 2006, 09:46 AM

Is it just me or has this thread been creating more truobles than its trying to resolve. :confused:

Xanahti

March 9th, 2006, 10:54 AM

This Land, I think it's important that people get to say what they think about how Lea is moderated.
I can see a lot of improvement in the staff lately, but it's getting rather annoying to see that threads sometimes get locked quicker then neccessary. People aren't really given a chance to lead the discussion back to a calm and civilised conversation again. That does create a tense and annoyed atmosphere, and the members that argued in one thread, will probably take up the same discussion in a new one when a chance is given. All it takes is a little poke that reminds the members of the last argument, and it continues.

Of course when things get ugly it is the mod staff's job to step in and take care of it. But I think Pntball's idea of closing threads for a few hours instead of closing them forever is a lot more useful. It gives the mods and the members time to chill and maybe some of them will realise that they're not behaving like they should, thus solve arguements when the thread open again and contribute to a better atmosphere.

Having different opinions can lead to arguing, even if it shouldn't. Some people do need to learn how to discuss without getting nasty, but there's no better way to learn it then to acctually perform it. Do the mods here send the involved people pm's with tip's on how to not cross the line? If not, then maybe that would be a good idea, if you do, and they don't listen, giving them a short ban (if possible) maybe would be a good idea.

King Simba

March 9th, 2006, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
well ok how would you act if you were a moderator/admin and...

1. there would bef swearing on borad even swearing it usealess in every situation and not allowed on this board.

2. two memebers are getting on each others nerves and start serious arguing about something and being disrespectful on each other opinion.

3. People makeing tons of threads about the most random things you can think of or about death of people who bearly anyone even knows.
1) If someone was constantly swearing in a thread, I'd take it to PMs and discuss it with them there. If they continue to swear in different threads on the forum, I would probably end up having to take further action, especially if the swearing is that to a large number.

Not that I have anything against swearing. Heck, even I swear though I don't bother swearing on this forum. I keep the swearing mainly offline if I can, usually if I'm stressed, angry, depressed etc.

2) Tell both members to stop. Give them a warning and tell them to take it to PMs. If they don't stop, I wouldn't lock the thread just because of a certain two members as that wouldn't be fair on any other member. Why should a large amount of people be punished because of two stupid people who just think it's good to argue in each others situation? Seriously. Just talk it over with the two who were responsible and take further action if necessary.

3) I actually don't mind these type of threads though I believe there is a chance that I wouldn't really know who some of these people who have died are though they're probably either;

-Someone who is a close member of the family and has died. (Though I don't think many people have been making threads about this anyway. Either that or no-one has.)
-Someone who is famous for doing certain things and has died though some members don't really know who this person is and has never heard of them.

However, I don't think these threads are part of the trouble and as Kovy said, the Elephant Graveyard was opened again for all the random threads, the game threads etc.

Nephilim

March 9th, 2006, 11:48 AM

You know, I read this entire thread through, ignored all that was said about me, and I was going to post a nice long reply and try and sort myself out a little and sort the rest of you out... but then I stumbled on a attack that Rov had kindly left in the moderator forum, and really... I'm not going to stand for that kind of treatment.

So, without being dragging this out, I'm going to be off now for a while. Goddamn... I'm not actually heartless, and I do love this forum, hence the fact that I've been here for about two and a half years. But anyway, bye. Have fun with this all.

I honestly am quite upset.

Oh, and one more thing: abuse to the mods via PMs.

Utora
I know you are, you don't have to tell me. Lea is honestly becoming a small place where the little bi and sexual and angry people muster to start issues, and the funny thing is, there are mods with the same issues running the place.

Sharifu

March 9th, 2006, 12:08 PM

Man, all this drama... I seriously don't understand why we're all aguring. I think the mods are doing fine. Yes I know I'm a mod but only to a fourm where nothing much happens, so the only moderating job I have ever done was merge a thread, once.

But my point is I always thought the mods were doing fine.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Sharifu
Man, all this drama... I seriously don't understand why we're all aguring. I think the mods are doing fine. Yes I know I'm a mod but only to a fourm where nothing much happens, so the only moderating job I have ever done was merge a thread, once.

But my point is I always thought the mods were doing fine.

*sigh* Bud, did you even read the thread? That is not the point; no one has said lately in this thread that the mods are doing a bad job, but you cannot deny the rising tensions between mods and at least a handful of members. The point is to get that worked out, not to attack the mods; that's why we're all arguing, because I've talked to at least three people that want to leave because they think they've been strong-armed by the mods, and there's at least one mod that's resigning because he thinks the members are attacking him. So that you are able to "Understand why we're all arguing", that is the reason; however, I have seen no members or staff arguing in a way that isn't constructive yet.

If we're unable to have a civilized discussion on the topic, which we currently are having a civilized discussion, then let's just close the forum, because it's just a matter of time before it tears itself apart anyway. I'm not blaming you guys, and I don't think you guys are blaming us, but we gotta work together to solve this or it's just not getting solved.

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 12:49 PM

I'ma commit a Nephilim right now.

hahaha, I don't even want to go into this,

So the moderators are giving up on the members.. Should that make the members give up on the moderators..Hmm?

~KTL

EDIT: I meant some mods, not all :

Also,

Originally posted by Nephilim
Congratulations on being the twenthy-forth thousand person to make a thread like this.

except change thread to post. Hurry back soon Neph.

Sharifu

March 9th, 2006, 01:04 PM

She's just taking a break KTL. And how would a member give up on a mod?

And Pnt of course I read the thread, and I just don't understand all the tension. I've never seen mods being unfair to members, of course I can't judge I guess, I don't see what the other mods privately say to the members.

Kovu The Lion

March 9th, 2006, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Sharifu
She's just taking a break KTL. And how would a member give up on a mod?

And Pnt of course I read the thread, and I just don't understand all the tension. I've never seen mods being unfair to members, of course I can't judge I guess, I don't see what the other mods privately say to the members. Pretty easy Sharifu, stop listening. Start doing what he or she wants, not doing what mods intend the forums to do. And most of all, not post in threads like these because he or she sees no point in it.

Juniper

March 9th, 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Sharifu
And Pnt of course I read the thread, and I just don't understand all the tension. I've never seen mods being unfair to members, of course I can't judge I guess, I don't see what the other mods privately say to the members.

I think the tension's not based on mods being intentionally mean towards the members, but a percieved feeling that the mods are trying to restrict the members or aren't properly doing their job (again, I'm not saying who did what, only that there's different perceptions of what's happening).

There's no reason why we need to be naming individual people, guys.

Only-now

March 9th, 2006, 04:16 PM

I don't really feel like making along post, but I can state a few short things that I think sum up some facts around here.

1) Lea is a worse place since the time I joined it close to 2 years ago.

2) The moderators are not only responsible for the forum, but themselves as well. They must use their power in "moderation" and based on the rules, not emotion. Of course a mod is allowed an opinion just like everyone else..but if rules ar broken, action should be taken. Also, members have to realize that sometimes taking action is up to the moderator's discretion. If they honestly think something needs to be done in a perticular way, and they do it...then you have to learn to deal with it. That doesn't mean you can't contest, but don't attack them if they didn't attack you.

3) That last area brings me to my next point. Using discretion means that if a certain topic or thread is producing large amounts of swearing, arguing, etc, then that thread SHOULD be closed. If two members argue, and they get warned, but the thread doesn't get closed...and then two more argue, and then two more, then the thread SHOULD be closed. Also, I think that there are some basic moral issues that should be held to regardless of whether rules are broken. If someone wanted to post a thread about how to properly break the law in some way, or how to injure someone, or something, etc..that SHOULD NOT be allowed. I don't think we would take kindly to someone posting a topic on how they want to kill innocent people in gruesome ways, etc.

4) Lastly, and sort of related to that above number but not completely, is the smoking thread. I think that the thread IS inappropriate, and NOT just because I don't like it. For one, it was a member (ME) who brought up concern about it in the first place, not a mod. So they were not jumping to just close it based on their beliefs. Secondly, the reason I think that it was inappropriate was because it WASN'T created to dispute whether smoking is good or bad, but catered to people who smoke and the action of smoking. This is what I mean by treating it like a given, or a hobby..because it wasn't about the pros and cons of smoking..it was about what you smoke, etc. The gay marriage thread doesn't relate because it was talking about agreeing or disagreeing with it. Not, how to get married if you are gay, what it is like, or sexual relations that way. It is almost insinutating that those things are alright from the start, on what is ESSENTIALLY a CHILDREN'S MOVIE FORUM. I know most memebers are older, but that doesn't matter in some areas.

Guess that ended up being longer than I thought. Anyways, those are my two cents in it. I could think of many ways to make the forum better, but I don't feel like thinking them through to be honest..hehe. Oh, and btw..yes, less sarcasm should be used when closing threads, but that isn't an attack on Neph. I feel bad for her and the forum that such arguing between mods and members and between mods and mods has to take place. Rememeber, we all came from the same group....the MEMBERS.

~Kiva

Krypto

March 9th, 2006, 06:40 PM

I've always had an interesting relationship with mods in general. :lol: Without going into a big, drawn out story about my past, :lol: I'll just say that being kicked out of a chatroom by mods was a great thing for me. I say this because it happened at a time, several years ago, when I would frequently get really mad and wound up about stuff and I wouldn't stop spazzing out until I'd just about ruined everybodies night. :( When they kicked me out and banned me for 24 hours, it forced me to calm myself down. I had never had to do that before. It made me realize how worked up I was. So, it was a very good thing for them to have done, because it actually forced me to realize how terrible my behavior was.

But I've also seen moderators of forums and chat rooms who have taken advantage of the control that they have. That's no fun for anyone, and it seems to always be the end of a site when it begins to happen. This reminds me of a quote from Futurama: "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

But I don't think that any of this should be all that big of a deal on this site. If people would just talk about the Lion King, not a lot of people would get upset. I mean, you might think that Scar's the best character and I think that Simba is, but I'm not going to throw it in caps and give you what for because of it! :lol: It's because people are talking about hot topics that individuals are getting bent out of shape. I've seen some threads which were created by individuals who had to have known that what they were writing would get people upset. And I've seen those same people who created those threads saying that they're wondering why people are getting upset. I believe that people are good, but I recognize that even the best of people can become sketchy when they're put in the wrong situation-and that's what I see happening: good people being put into bad situations and the creator of the situation acting innocent ((if that makes sense :lol:)). Though nobody has to join in on the sketchy threads, I know that there are members who want to be a part of every thread-those are the ones who are sort of being put into a bad situation.

But what it all comes down to is that we all love the Lion King and enjoy interacting with eachother, or else we wouldn't come! :cheese: As Cartman says: "Eh, I love you guys!" :lol: :D :cheese:

nathalie

March 9th, 2006, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by pntbll248
Just because Nathalie isn't here is no reason why the forum can't run like clockwork

Ow, I love you for saying that *kisses and hugs you*

*ahum* hehe

Now, serious: Why is it, that everytime I leave for a day or so, that people tell me: Lea is going worse when you gone.

I really don't think it has something to do with me.
I really don't believe I am such an important person around here, for you all so the forum can run smoothly.

That's just odd to me ^_^

Daniel

March 9th, 2006, 07:35 PM

i can't remember how i voted in this poll

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 9th, 2006, 11:14 PM

I know this is a touchy subject between me and KTL...and Pntbll actually but I agree with you guys. The terrorism thread got out of hand, I was as much to blame there and I'm sorry I acted like such a...yes well anyway.

I think it's partly because of the recent atmosphere around Lea and it got to me. It's like there's an undercurrent of hostility around these boards which never used to be there. It seems silly that a board based on a set of family movies should get so aggressive.

When I left, about 6 months ago, Lea was the sort of place you could come, post a few silly random threads, have a laugh and enjoy yourself. Now, it seems, you're not aloud to have fun anymore...all threads must be deadly serious and have a purpose. And they have to be spelled and written in perfect english with corrct grammar. Oh and before anyone mentions it I know theres a board for random stuff but that's not really the same. It's become too strict around here and because of that people resent the authority figures, and then move on to each other.

Maybe there were some problems with people coming in and posting loads of stuff that didn't fit but that doesn't mean we suddenly have to run it like a military camp. Perhaps Lea will be fine again soon, but we need to change this authoritarian attitude to running the forums.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 12:15 AM

*Possible Long Post Warning, Beware*

Okay, before I start off, I gotta say that I'm on my parent's computer, seeing as that it's my Spring Break (yes, my university gets an early Spring Break =P ) So I didn't get a chance to read through all of the replies given. However I'm an active member here and have been for some time so I believe that I have a fairly good idea of everything that has already been said *gets down from his all knowing cloud*

Soooo... first off I would like to send some kind words out to Roquivo over his Moderating problems. I know how you feel my friend. You were smarter than I am and left sooner, like I should have. Anyway, I do hope that your life gets sorted out now. Ever since I left the staff I haven't been happier heh. Anyway, if you need to talk or anything, I'm here man.

Now then..I have this to say to the lot of you..

Back off of each other and stop acting like babies, it's really annoying. Also, as much as I used to support not calling out names.. why not? Embarrassment? Maybe people SHOULD be embarrased for things they have done, if the shoe fits, wear it. If you've done something wrong, you are supposed to attone for it, to yourself, to those wronged, just get it done. Ever since I personally realized that and laid down my personal list of problems I had with others, as well as myself over int he moderator forum when I quit, I feel wonderful. My heart is at rest because I said it like it is, plain as day, flat out. That doesn't mean I told people to go to a certain incredibly hot place or anything.. but I told them how I felt in a calm, clear, precise, and adequate way. And it worked out great for me. And you all seem to be *****-footin' around the real problem, too scared to point your fingers directly at what you find so appauling and horrid; instead you just rant about in MSN/AIM/YIM/etc.. or on PM's or through the board itself. I know because I used to do the same things *shrugs* If you're mad at someone.. go tell them. Otherwise they'll keep doing whatever it is that is making you mad, and you'll just get even more mad. It's stupid really..

Lea Halalela.. your behavior is stupid.

There, and you could keep pointing at issues, true. But grudges will be held still as long as you refuse to confront the person(s} that are making you angry. If it's me, please tell me, tell me right here and now, by all means post it in this thread in bold huge letters if need be, send me a PM an IM.. anything, get a hold of me and tell me or anyone else what your beef is with 'em. Then you can discuss this like rational adults that you are, not the toddlers that you so often desire to mimic here.

And yes, I've used a lot of mean words to assualt you Lea Halalela, and myself as well. But what I have said I find to be the truth, and it has worked perfectly in my own problems here at Lea that are no more. However it still bothers me that a place that I love, this forum I do love a part of it (however much it continues to shrink), is at war with itself.

Mods, I don't need to tell you what you should be doing, you know what you should be doing. You are to make sure that disorder and chaos do not ever effect this forum. I'm sorry to say that you have failed, as did I when I was a mod. Chaos and disorder are here in strong revolutionary force. Believe it or not there are members out there.. that are just plain rotten, bad, evil, and mean. *gasp* This must be a hard concept to grasp since you guys are so forgiving (and the concept of the mods being forgiving must be hard for the members to understand *double gasp*). Mods, you NEED to find these folks and get rid of them, don't listen to bleeding hearts. If someone has broken the rules, and especially when someone jumps right out and says flambouyantly that they will not listen to the rules, etc, etc, etc.. that's when you need to take some action. And always tell exactly why action was taken.

Members.. your turn. leave the mods be. They are trying their hardest to make sure that Lea is run excellently. When I was a mod I was much like Roquivo actually, giving a lot of time to the forum instead of for my own personal life. After I was de-modded though, i lurk now and see the threads I only want to read instead of all of them. I'm sorry to say but a lot of your conversations on Lea are exceedingly dull and boring to read through, and then there are the wonderful flame wars and problems like this one in fact that pop up and no matter if you had anything to do with it at all you get singled out as 'a mod' (eww.. a mod Ick!) and blamed for everything short of blowing up the world. Sounds funny but it's sadly true. There are problems at Lea, but they can not all be pointed at the mods. They're in charge (as much as some of you hate that fact, it's still true, they are in charge) and they've been given the responsibility of pruning, merging, and retaining order of the forum. anything else they do outside of those lines, they're not required to do, but they do it out of the thoughtful and kindness of their own hearts.

*sigh* I didn't want this to be long, and even though I have more to say, I'm going to stop for now. Now please get along and don't cause anymore pain to each other. You've already hurt three of my dearest friends in this thread among others and it brings shame to me now that I am a member of this community.

Shape up =/

EDIT:

For those that jump on other people for trying to help.. this post is not directed at any individual, but at all of Lea as I tried to make clear in the post but it might not have worked out that way..

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Maybe there were some problems with people coming in and posting loads of stuff that didn't fit but that doesn't mean we suddenly have to run it like a military camp

I love you

NOt really but yeah, Exactly what he said ^^

~KTL

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Nuka
and then there are the wonderful flame wars and problems like this one in fact that pop up and no matter if you had anything to do with it at all you get singled out as 'a mod' (eww.. a mod Ick!) and blamed for everything short of blowing up the world.

I butchered you're post *Gasp* ! :O !!!

But anyways, I want to thank you Nuka for posting that. In that post it contained exactly almost every feeling that was captured inside of me. And exactly what I thought was going on and what needed to be happening. But the part I just quoted, Theres a reason.

I doin't know if this applies to other members, but thanks to past experiences it applies to me. I use mods now, The word "Mods" Because if I were to point out a certain "Mod" lets just.. Hmm use Sharifu as an example (Sharifu anything that is posted now is just to be used as an example, take no offense into what is to be said. For it might not be true to you but true to someone else)

If I were to complain about something Sharifu had done, and I said "well Sharifu and blah blah did this or that" Then I'd get in trouble for calling someone out on the Forums, disrespecting them and or embarassing them in front of everyone. So I started using the convenient word that we all like and love, Mod, or Moderator. That way it wouldn't offend or call anyone out.

But then when I started using that word, EVERY moderator in Lea thought i was talking about them. and it made it hard to tell you who I was talking about (Not you you but whoever I was talking to or making the point across to) And I'd get in trouble anyways.

But the word Mod is probably used to describe more good than bad, thanks to the so called "Reputation' The moderators are putting upon themselves. And some are doing an EXCELLENT job, and its just a select few that are making mistakes, and making the members use once again "The Moderators" and the mods once again think. "I havn't done that" or "When did I do this.." when the member was actually trying to convey the point to someone directly, but can't because they can't say a members name or they'd get in trouble.

But.. yeah idk what i'm rambling on about now so I'm just.. Stop.

heres what I think needs to be done

Moderators - Start Moderating the forums like you should, and stop acting like our moms and dads. We have them offline, we don't want them online too. This isn't a marine base (as stated by someone in another thread) So don't make it look like boot camp and make this place so strict you ca'nt have any possible fun at all.

Members - Stop harassing the Moderators, and pointing out every single little mistake they make, I think this is the biggest problem now, that since Moderators are well, Moderators then they should be perfect and never make a mistake in their life, but this is not the case, as I've said before, Members should have the same rights as a mod to do what they want, when they want, as long as they are justified, and meet the rules, They can go into any post, at any time, and post whatever they want. Just like a Moderator can, Members think they can make mistakes themselves and not be blammed, while a mod makes one and everyone points it out and complains. This has got to stop. The mods are doing everything they possibly can. And sometimes they go a little to far. But like us, they are human. And make mistakes too, so learn to live with there mistakes, and Mods, learn to live with OUR mistakes.

~KTL

EDIT:

No offense here but, Nathalie I think they say that because.

When you are gone, they have no one else to go to and whine about their problems, thats just the way I see it. Seeing you are an admin and can do whatever you want to a member, they go straight to you and COMPLAIN. Instead of taking things up by themselves, and when you leave they have no clue what to do because they never did anything themselves to begin with.

Just what I think it is, if you take this into offense, Then puh idk.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 01:05 AM

No offense here but, Nathalie I think they say that because.

When you are gone, they have no one else to go to and whine about their problems, thats just the way I see it. Seeing you are an admin and can do whatever you want to a member, they go straight to you and COMPLAIN. Instead of taking things up by themselves, and when you leave they have no clue what to do because they never did anything themselves to begin with.

Just what I think it is, if you take this into offense, Then puh idk.

Glad to have helped you out KtL heh.

Btw.. I don't want to start something (or rather.. ignite something that has already started..), I want to finish it. Bring closure to these problems. That's what my previous post was about for anyone who might not be entirely sure :E

As far as that nathalie/Admin part goes.. those words are so truely spoken it's terribly sad. Perhaps the mods would stop acting like parents, if they didn't have to watch over such childish acts? That's not saying that what the mods have done is right (being parent-like and all that) but it does give a possible explanation. Or it could be vice versa, that the members have become childish due to the mods treatng them as such, or a mix.. oesn't matter. It's happened either way. Now we need to fix it.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Nuka
Perhaps the mods would stop acting like parents, if they didn't have to watch over such childish acts? That's not saying that what the mods have done is right (being parent-like and all that) but it does give a possible explanation. Or it could be vice versa, that the members have become childish due to the mods treatng them as such, or a mix.. oesn't matter. It's happened either way. Now we need to fix it.

I don't know this for sure, but I'm posting from what someone else said, W-Eyed-Wanderer said in another thread, that 6 months ago silly threads, and comments could be made, without being flamed about it, and you could have an awesome laugh and have fun.

If thats the case, Then it seems to me that the Moderators have changed. If they allowed it then, and not now. I see nothing wrong with the members, and I see exactly why they are complaining.

Also if thats the case, its thanks to the Moderators (No OFFENSE I'M SERIOUS, This could be WRONG.) For changing Lea Halalela into what it is now, by becoming so danged strict. So I see it as the Moderators who have just started playing the role of, "Guys we have power, lets show them what our power is, and what we can do with it." Kinda thing. Thats just what I am assuming what has happened from the perspective and sayings from another person

and once again, I'm truly sorry if all this is wrong, but I just thought of it. And it seemed to fit perfectly as to what Nuka just said.

~KTL

EDIT:

And now I have a question to the Moderators.

Why the sudden change, what happened to those "Golden ages" and times of Lea, when you could have fun? All I see now is people getting flamed when they post something like that now, why are we not what we used to be SO LONG AGO!

Sombolia

March 10th, 2006, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by pntbll248
Edit: Sorry about that, Somby. No hard feelings?

Of course, I didn't take offense to any of what you said.. I just have a weird taste in humor. :ayecapn:

Sombolia

March 10th, 2006, 01:48 AM

Goddamn, you know things are getting ridiculous when you drive Neph out of this place.

Seriously, I feel physically sick right now, this is just.. wow.

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 01:48 AM

Just what I think it is, if you take this into offense, Then puh idk.

No OFFENSE I'M SERIOUS, This could be WRONG

Btw.. I don't want to start something (or rather.. ignite something that has already started..)

realizing that setting them aside as two different groups doesn't help

i know it isnt so, so dont jump on me,

No offense but this is what I think about this one CToP

I didn't mean any harm in this thread, I just wanna know whats up..

I'm not accusing any one person, I'm to blame as well,

ETA2: Er, that last part? Joking. :3

Furthermore, the contents of this post were not aimed at offending anyone else on this board, they are purely my opinions on the matter in question.

In my opinion

IMO

in my opinoin

In my opinoin

Once again no offense!

No offense to any one of a different color

Just incase someone misunderstands because of this rather touchy subject i did not mean to offend anyone with this post and if i did i apologize.

I know that will probably offend someone, but it's true

...I don?t want people getting mad at me any more than they probably are

least I make anyone sick or offend any meat eaters.

and I'm sorry if I offended anyone

No offense to any of the vegetarians out there

Now, I am sorry if I offend anyone, and everyone should know Im not agianst animals

Also no offense to anyone of course, thats just how I feel

I hope i didn't offend you in any way with my opinions

I hope I didn't sound offensive...

(no offence to neone here)

(no offense at all to ya roog, okay? Just had to say this)

(Again, no offense to ya roog ^^)

I hope you are not offended but think about what I said

I'm sick and tired of the political correctness crap on this board; or, more accurately, the people who twist and pervert a person's words to try to be offensive so they can scream long and loud about it. It's hard to post nowadays, because you never know who you're going to "Offend". Look, there's a difference between a blatantl offensive statement and an opinion (keeping in mind that an opinion can be offensive, but this is getting petty) No offense to anyone, just had to throw that issue on the table.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Sombolia
Goddamn, you know things are getting ridiculous when you drive Neph out of this place.

Seriously, I feel physically sick right now, this is just.. wow.

all I can say is, Wow,

that post is really helping us solve our Problems Sombolia, I must congratulate you on helping us so much. If you think things are ridiculous, try helping solve them for once?

~KTL

Utora

March 10th, 2006, 01:51 AM

I think all the MODERATORS or SUPERADMINS or whatever those hopped up titles are, should be filtered through Mufasa first and foremost. Now, as I read someplace else they already are da? But not all, mainly the leaders of the bandwagon. These few that were hand cropped from Mufasa I've never actually faced any problems with. It's the new ones that seem to be doing a great deal of strictness and demanding. Then again, all of them could have been choosen by Mufasa. - My point for that is he established this forum, an it's purpose. Therefore he should place people into power he desires.

Alot of people here are easily jumpy, and I think some mods are too. However these jumpy mods are also very active and usualy there when these jumpy things ignite. I feel some lack the social skills required and instead of creating order they create it whilst establishing their own views which an authority should not do. An authoirty represents the laws of the system operating, and at some points they may not agree with the laws themselves but it is their responsability to establish the law regardless as if they are opposed to them.

Also - I really really have been thinking on this. I don't think the error lies souly with the moderation team but with us, me and other people. I recognize I was out of place the past few days, in some areas, but not all. I think that the mods and the people must first agree with eachother before peace is re-established. How can this be done? We need to find a moot point of agreement. An area where mod and member can meet in agreement. It should also agree with the laws of the system, or forum. I think the forums are currently strict because there is a severe lack of agreement coming from both sides. Those who don't wish to agree should not force the mods to reiterate or enforce the laws and cause us to suffer. Thus when this happens there is an imbalance that is created and more and more members fall to disagreement with the modertors. We are currently suffering due to an accumulated disagreement established by a few members at a time growing. It needed to be cut off a long time ago. Now it's set everyone at a disagreement or a fued or sensitivity. It needs to be reset. How this can be done, the moderators would be best to assume control and activate a plan. If it keeps going like this, people on the outside with a negative mentality will bewelcomed - and the system will continue to degenerate.

My rating will not be cast until there is a foundation of agreement between both sides. There will not always be agreements, same with common law. Those who do not agree are warned, and if they persist it's called a crime at which point. The lea system to date is off the charts and warnings against crime are mingled as one, therefore creating this tight belt around everyones posts and making the 'report' button very popular. The law needs to be set, the good of the people need to agree on it, and a system that is always used should be organized in warnings and bannishment. It should be followed and told to the people as of it's laws so we may recognize and know it fully, and at which point acting against it in any way is our own wrong, not the mods for it was agreed upon by the people and the mods as whole, and the person acting against it knows the penalty.

Nicoga

March 10th, 2006, 02:24 AM

Considering I'm one of the newer members to Lea, and I joined during the time of all these flame wars, I'd just like to add my little ol' opinion to this.

It's been said before, but considering I don't know ANYONE on this board save for one or two people, I hope my opinion is coming from a neutral party instead of emotion-driven jibes. I see a LOT of locked boards, almost to the point where there's no threads to post on. I see disrespect and outright attacks on the Mods and the Mods abusing their power. I also have noticed how some Mods will even post some last remark on locked threads. That, I believe, is a show-off of their power.

You cannot post anything without putting three or four remarks of "no offense", "In my own humble opinion", or "I don't mean to hurt anyone". And even if individuals DO post these three or four times in their post, they STILL get in trouble and/or reported. I was looking through many member profiles, and I see a lot of referrals tagged onto their profiles.

I am also a bit upset that many people think the new members are the cause of many of the wars. Yes, they could very well be doing this, but it also makes me feel like I'm not wanted here. These tight little groups have some kind of n00b barrier around them. About 3/4 the new people I see posting on Pride Rock, never post again. I don't know why, and I do hope it isn't because of the anti-social nature toward them.

*sigh* Might as well put this here too: I didn't mean to offend anyone, if I did. It's only my outlook on Lea. No offense, so please don't report me. I didn't mean to act like a snot or a typical newbie. It's just my opinion.

If you just skip everything above, I guess I'm just saying what other's have been saying. Nothing new.

Utora

March 10th, 2006, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by Nicoga

If you just skip everything above, I guess I'm just saying what other's have been saying. Nothing new.

Nyet comrade, your view is very refreshing. It comes from another side line that needs to be looked at.

When you say referalls, do you mean in referance to how many times they've been reported? I used to think that too, but if that is what you are thinking, it means how many members they recruited here at lea, or inspired to join. It took me until just recently to understand that.

:lol:

Alot of what you said ties into what I posted at Moderator Approval Ratings, so I will not repost my idea but let you know alot of my replies to your post lie there. But your post was very well said.

Sombolia

March 10th, 2006, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
all I can say is, Wow,

that post is really helping us solve our Problems Sombolia, I must congratulate you on helping us so much. If you think things are ridiculous, try helping solve them for once?

~KTL

Because THAT post did a whole load of good, right?

Seriously- I don't know what's the matter with you, but I'm not going to get into it with you here. If you must continue this, take it to PM or find some other means of contacting me, please.

Xinithian

March 10th, 2006, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by Utora
I think all the MODERATORS or SUPERADMINS or whatever those hopped up titles are, should be filtered through Mufasa first and foremost. Now, as I read someplace else they already are da? But not all, mainly the leaders of the bandwagon. These few that were hand cropped from Mufasa I've never actually faced any problems with. It's the new ones that seem to be doing a great deal of strictness and demanding. Then again, all of them could have been choosen by Mufasa. - My point for that is he established this forum, an it's purpose. Therefore he should place people into power he desires. The only problem about Mufasa choosing mods is that he's unaware of the current situations. He hasn't posted in several months (or at least last time I checked), and I don't think he's reading the forums even monthly. Therefore, he probably wouldn't know what people would be appropriate for moderators, because he wouldn't know about who the most neutral members were amongst this forum.

Nicoga

March 10th, 2006, 02:59 AM

Originally posted by Utora

When you say referalls, do you mean in referance to how many times they've been reported? I used to think that too, but if that is what you are thinking, it means how many members they recruited here at lea, or inspired to join. It took me until just recently to understand that.

:lol:

Aiiyaa. See what middle school does to a young mind? It warps it. Even the MENTION of a referral got the little kiddies shaking in their untied tennis shoes. :eek:

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by Nicoga
Aiiyaa. See what middle school does to a young mind? It warps it. Even the MENTION of a referral got the little kiddies shaking in their untied tennis shoes. :eek:

Sorry to say, but that made no sense at all

*Goes back to hiding*

~KTL

EDIT: By the way, no flames.

Sombolia

March 10th, 2006, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Sorry to say, but that made no sense at all

*Goes back to hiding*

~KTL

Werrrr, yes it did. *blink*

Referalls were little pink slips we got when we did something bad, if I remember correctly..

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 03:07 AM

OH OH!! I get it now, I thought er, well, um hell I dunno what I was thinking ;_____;

I'm lost, I'll just stay out of this :evilgrin:

EDIT:

Just noticed something, woot to myself for 5k+ posts :P

Utora

March 10th, 2006, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by Xinithian
The only problem about Mufasa choosing mods is that he's unaware of the current situations. He hasn't posted in several months (or at least last time I checked), and I don't think he's reading the forums even monthly. Therefore, he probably wouldn't know what people would be appropriate for moderators, because he wouldn't know about who the most neutral members were amongst this forum.

True. Da - then we go to my third paragraph, and start with what we are left with and form some sort of an agreement between the members and moderators.

Utora

March 10th, 2006, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion

EDIT: By the way, no flames.

No flame present.

@ Nicoga : :lol: Exactly. I've been detached for while and still suffer middle school mentality.

lion_roog

March 10th, 2006, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by pntbll248
I'm sick and tired of the political correctness crap on this board; or, more accurately, the people who twist and pervert a person's words to try to be offensive so they can scream long and loud about it. It's hard to post nowadays, because you never know who you're going to "Offend". Look, there's a difference between a blatantl offensive statement and an opinion (keeping in mind that an opinion can be offensive, but this is getting petty) No offense to anyone, just had to throw that issue on the table.

I agree, and I see my name up there a few time...:D...I think between us it was more of a miscommunication rather than political correctness. Like when I thought you were refering to my post in one of your replies, but you weren't...I just have this problem every so often with thinking the world revolves around me...:D...Which it should...:diva:

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 04:09 AM

I don't think that Lea is run like a military camp, and I think that a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion and making it more dramatic than it is. The rules and common sense are what should guide you, and if a mod does abuse power then they get in trouble. If a member does something to purposely insult someone else, they should get in trouble. It REALLY is THAT simple. There are always grey areas, but that is why we have mods, and that is why we should be able to trust them, and their discretion. Also, this whole thing about having to say "no offense" is true to an extent..but that little joke about it, and putting it in every post is getting old. There are times when you should make sure that you put off the right impression. If you don't mean to offend anyone, then say it..not because you don't want to get in trouble, but because that is how you honestly feel. That is why I say it, because I don't want to make a personal attack on someone. If you DO mean to offend someone, then go right ahead. You just have to be willing to accept the consequences. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can report on someone for every slightly offensive statement, because frankly..people need to learn to "suck it up". If anyone was offended by what I said about the whole "I didn't mean to offend anyone" joke, then you obviously are partaking in what you are arguing against. So, there you go...straight from the lion with the crooked mane! :D

~Kiva

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 04:40 AM

This forum is SO hopeless. Let me state some things I know or think about this.

1) Those "golden ages" were times when we didn't even have mods, or if we did, they were very lax. When I first came here, there were no mods, and everything seemed to work fine. Then however, we started getting new members, who began spamming, breaking rules, etc. This is where the mods came into play, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

2) I see that in some threads, people are saying the mods are too easy, and in others they say they are too strict. Personally, this forums is NOT moderated in a strict way whatsoever. People continually say that the mods are allowed to make mistakes, because they are human, but when saying that, they themselves get upset with the mods when they use thier own discretion on something. It is true you should base decisions off of the rules, but they are also human, they have moral beliefs, etc. Closing a thread is not irreverisible, and it isn't the end of the world. If a mod believes that something is wrong based on WIDELY ACCEPTED moral values, or because the discussion is inappropriate, I don't think they should get in trouble for taking action on it. You should compare mods to the police officer. You don't talk back, or argue with them, call them out in public, embarrass them, etc. You handle it like CIVILIZED person would, and bring up why you disagree. There is no reason to make another thread about it, etc.

3) People ARE allowed to make sure people know they aren't trying to offend anyone. If anyone knows me, they know I am NOT for polirical correctness at all, but people seem to try and use every instance where someone says they don't want to offend someone as one of political correctness. Personally, I don't think the mods have been strict enough to where you have to worry about actually being punished...so is it hard to believe that maybe people DON'T want to offend someone? I guess the argument is that if the mods weren't getting people in trouble (which they aren't the majority of the time) then everyone who just say what they wanted without regard to anyone's feelings? I guess no one has thier own conscience, and discretion?

I think people need to realize WHAT a mod is. They ARE members just like the rest of us. They aren't a seperate category, they aren't more important or special. They are allowed to have thier own opinion on something, they are allowed mistakes. We trust them because they were GOOD members, and we give them the power to moderate the other members because we believe that they know what is right for the forum. Since they are members, you can talk to them like one. You can disagree with a decision, and discuss it with them like a NORMAL person. I in no way see the mods as trying to display power, and if I had to, I would bet that the members are most if not ALL of the cause of this problem. I think some people have a problem with authority, and some people just want to cause trouble. I think people also need to realize:

You CANNOT say whatever you want on this forum!

This is not a place where you have complete freedom of speech all the time. True, you should be allowed an opinion, you should be allowed to say you disagree with someone and list their name, and you should be allowed to get upset. you SHOULDN'T be allowed to call members or mods names, insult their character, psot whatever you want, curse, etc. Every topic is NOT alright to discuss.

Anyways, there are too many angles, and sides to look at in this discussion. My personal belief is that we need to just DROP this topic. Mods are meant to be here, and so are members. If you leave it alone, it WILL achieve a state of equilibrium. I don't think this needs to be blown out of proportion, and I don't think the situation is as dire as people make it seem. I think that there are more problems with the members, and what THEY want this forum to be, than with the mods, who started here in what many people seem to call the "good times". Everyone needs to look at this logically, because NO ONE seems to be doing that as of yet. Oh, and remember, this is ALL coming from a member, NOT a moderator.

~Kiva

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 04:47 AM

Wow do you live in a fantasy of make believe..

We let it stay here, the problem between Mods and Members, and when no one took action, it got worse and worse.
And with this threads rebirth we are actually starting to communicate these problems we are having, and with it we can learn from each others mistakes and possibly settle it by agreeing onto something.

And Kiva, when two moderators leave, (one resigning and one taking a break) I do think that shows that this is worth fighting over, and arguing about. Unless you don't really seem to care that two were upset because of it. I do believe a lot of what you said to be true, but most of which was rash and not really thought over much. And if you are to say its all the members fault? according to you Moderators are the same ad Memebers, would that make it the mods faults also?

Cause boy are you confusing me when I start to think outside of the box... But yeah, seriously I totally agree with you on the "You can't say whatever you want" here

You can't say whatever you want offline, theres a place and time for everything, and that should also apply on the forums.

lion_roog

March 10th, 2006, 04:53 AM

I agree with what Kiva said and all. The mods haven't really bothered me or anything...The last disagreement I had with any mod was back when cursing was somehow made a huge issue. Other than that they've been cool with me. The only thing I don't care for is the closing of topics, but that's just me being all anti-establishement and "Fight the Power"...:p

Edit: Let me make it aware that I am ignorant to a few of the present issues between some moderators and some members, so my above comment does not really apply to those situations...but just my personal experience in the last few months...=D

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by Only-now
there are too many angles, and sides to look at in this discussion. My personal belief is that we need to just DROP this topic. Mods are meant to be here, and so are members. If you leave it alone, it WILL achieve a state of equilibrium. I don't think this needs to be blown out of proportion, and I don't think the situation is as dire as people make it seem. I think that there are more problems with the members, and what THEY want this forum to be, than with the mods, who started here in what many people seem to call the "good times". Everyone needs to look at this logically, because NO ONE seems to be doing that as of yet. Oh, and remember, this is ALL coming from a member, NOT a moderator.

~Kiva

Look, bud, if you don't want to help fix the problem, and you don't want to even admit there's been a problem lately, then that's fine. However, we, the people who are concerned, are going to try to work this out regardless of the fact that you think we should drop it. This is how every single attempt to fix a problem goes, there's always that small group of people who say "Just leave it alone", then the thread goes downhill, people start getting personal, and the issue is dropped. The problem though, is not fixed, it festers in the minds of the people that're concerned and becomes worse later on. Now, maybe it is blown out of proportion, who knows, but that's still a problem that needs fixed, and frankly, it may be blown out of proportion because it wasn't fixed before and we've gone through this cycle multiple times. Sorry bud, I'm not gonna let that cycle continue if I have anything to do with it, and in my opinion, people need to talk maturely and come to a mutual agreement that addresses the concerns of each party to some extent. You can say we haven't used logic or we're being dramatic; you can use all the full-caps you want, none of that bothers me, but we still want to address our concerns as forum members in a mature manner and hopefully reach a compromise, and we will do so.

Edit:

Looking back through this thread, I don't think anyone's really being all that dramatic. I mean, yeah, some people are a bit touchy, but no more than in other threads. I think we're doing quite well at handling ourselves right now, and it's restoring a bit of hope for lea back in me. We have people not only saying their concerns with other members or moderators, but also conceeding their own downfalls and showing willingness to work with that; this, as of right now at least, is doing very well if you ask me.

Aurelian

March 10th, 2006, 05:15 AM

Can I just say one thing? I was responcible for both my out-of-line and cruel comments and for Nephilim leaving. You guys have nothing to worry about there. I am attempting to deal with those issues in the only way possible.

I'm pretty sure you guys don't want some big sob apology, so I'll just say that I take full responcibility for being exsesivly nasty, and probably causing half the issues being discussed single handedly. I want to make it clear that no one had anything to do with my thinking of quitting but me. I am just not sure I am the right person, being so emotionally fragile and all. But that is for me to sort out. IF it leads me to resigning, it will be of my own decision, and for my own health.

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by Roquivo
Can I just say one thing? I was responcible for both my out-of-line and cruel comments and for Nephilim leaving. You guys have nothing to worry about there. I am attempting to deal with those issues in the only way possible.

I'm pretty sure you guys don't want some big sob apology, so I'll just say that I take full responcibility for being exsesivly nasty, and probably causing half the issues being discussed single handedly. I want to make it clear that no one had anything to do with my thinking of quitting but me. I am just not sure I am the right person, being so emotionally fragile and all. But that is for me to sort out. IF it leads me to resigning, it will be of my own decision, and for my own health.

Bud, don't you worry, you did nothing wrong. We're you bros, man; that comes before any moderator or member classification. Think it through, I haven't seen anything that makes you any worse of a mod than anyone else would be, you gotta realize we all have flaws, and I'd say you're a damn good mod given the fact that you've shown how concerned you are for how you're doing and the general good of the forum.

Aurelian

March 10th, 2006, 05:24 AM

Thanks, Pnt, but you don't know half of the garbage I pulled, more so out of the eyes of most people, thank God. Obviously, I am not responcible for anybody elses actions, but I really did blow things out of proportion and hurt several people.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 05:43 AM

Roquivo:

I wish you could see what I see in you dude,

When I look at you're posts, and when I talk to you, I see one amazing guy. A worthy, trusting person. Someone you can depend on and count on to be there in a time of need. and more importantly, a person who cares about the feelings of others, more almost than his own feelings.

You say you have don ewrong doings. and you probably have, but remember we are all humans. and if you are a christian or whatever. In the bible I think it states, there was only one perfect human that ever walked on this earth, Jesus.

And I can guarantee you ain't him so :p you can make as many mistakes as you want.

My math teacher tells this to me everyday: "If you are making a mistake on the first try, you are doing the right thing, If you are getting it right. Then you are either really damn smart, or you cheated." And thats not the case with any of us, since if we were smart, we wouldn't be having these problems now would we?

And.. I really dont' know what else to say, I've said everything that needs to be said, via pm, or here...

~KTL

Vidan

March 10th, 2006, 05:51 AM

Another thing I want to add:

If you clearly didn't mean to offend anybody, and somebody reports you anyway, you have nothing to worry about. The mods can decipher legitimate complains from the petty. I'd rather have somebody complain to me about someone threatening to report to them than be directed to a reported post that doesn't violate any rules.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Vidan
Another thing I want to add:

If you clearly didn't mean to offend anybody, and somebody reports you anyway, you have nothing to worry about. The mods can decipher legitimate complains from the petty. I'd rather have somebody complain to me about someone threatening to report to them than be directed to a reported post that doesn't violate any rules.

Can I ask of something?

I don't see this happenign, but when you are reported, and you don't know it. It gets kinda aggrivating, perhaps send a private message to the person who was reported saying no action was taken at least?

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 10:20 AM

Perhaps people are blowing this out of proportion, but I can only speak for my own personal experiences. As I stated above I have noticed a huge change in Lea since coming back after my 6-month hiatus.

It always used to feel like a strong community, where everyone looked out for each other...with the odd exception of people falling out. Now it feels like that community spirit has disappeared from the site and it just comes down to whatever little groups you are part of.

Oh and I don't bother apologising about my opinions, the mods can talk to me if they want but I believe in the right to free speech.

So anyway, in other words, this is just what I've noticed, not sure what other people have seen or are feeling about the whole thing. Oh, and all those mods posting in that closed 'Anyone Want Me Gone?' thread is more than a little unfair...don't post where we can't respond...put it here if you want to say something. At least then we can have a discussion instead of just being told...

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Oh, and all those mods posting in that closed 'Anyone Want Me Gone?' thread is more than a little unfair...don't post where we can't respond...put it here if you want to say something. At least then we can have a discussion instead of just being told...

Sounds like a personal problem to me...

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 11:02 AM

I've not read all of this thread yet but I'd just like to say that I feel the problem lies as much with the Lea members as with the mods. As I've said in KTL's 'Reported...' thread I feel there has been a real air of 'bad blood' recently. This may be to do with the moderators, but only indirectly.

One solution that I can see is to reduce the number of moderators again...the more authority figures that are here the more people feel like they're constantly being watched and policed...and people don't appreciate that. It seems like these days everyone's a mod and you always have to be aware of their presence. If there were only two or three mods it would surely go back to how things used to be, with people being responsible, but still feeling like they are allowed to say what they want without fear of the allmighty mods coming down on them. It's become an 'Us and Them' thing, and this animosity has spread between regular members as well, creating this uneasy air of tension all around the place.

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Sonkakee
Sounds like a personal problem to me...

Oh yeah that's really mature... :rolleyes:

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Oh yeah that's really mature... :rolleyes:

I wasn't being sarcastic, I really meant what I said.

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 11:11 AM

So what do you mean then? If you don't explain yourself how am I supposed to understand what you're referring to?

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
So what do you mean then? If you don't explain yourself how am I supposed to understand what you're referring to?

OK, tell me why this was relevant first . . .

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
Oh, and all those mods posting in that closed 'Anyone Want Me Gone?' thread is more than a little unfair...don't post where we can't respond...put it here if you want to say something. At least then we can have a discussion instead of just being told...

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 11:21 AM

I beleive it should be an open forum, I feel it's unfair that the mods are still posting away in that thread when we can't respond to what they're saying. That's not to say we want to insult you, but we should have the right to at least ask questions of you and give reaction to what you're all saying.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
So what do you mean then? If you don't explain yourself how am I supposed to understand what you're referring to?

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
I beleive it should be an open forum, I feel it's unfair that the mods are still posting away in that thread when we can't respond to what they're saying. That's not to say we want to insult you, but we should have the right to at least ask questions of you and give reaction to what you're all saying.

Well... this is an open board, as far as I'm concerned. And a thread is closed and a mod or two responds to it, so what's the big deal then?

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 11:33 AM

The big deal is that you guys are still posting there and we can't. If you close a thread it should be closed to mods as well, otherwise it's just using your power to put your views on something which other people cannot do.

Okay so you guys became mods, hooray for you. You have to treat your power with a bit of respect...not to mention the other forum members.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer
The big deal is that you guys are still posting there and we can't.

That isn't entirely true. If need be we'll reopen the thread. And if it's absolutely imperative, we even might open it for the one. But in most instances, it isn't necessary.

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 11:49 AM

I still feel it would be better if we had a rule saying mods couldn't post in closed threads...just makes it a bit fairer on the regular members.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 11:57 AM

Perhaps WEW. But that's not how things go. And if it is any consultation, not all mods can add comments when the threads are closed. They can only do it where they're designated to. Again, sorry...

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 10th, 2006, 12:10 PM

Maybe it's how they should go....how about we do something amazing and turn Lea into a democracy when it comes to mods and rules....

Would certainly bring a bit of maturity to the whole affair and would probably ease all the authority problems which have arisen in the last few weeks...

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 12:20 PM

Well, as for mods adding things once the thread is closed, I agree 100%.

Nathalie

I know it's closed, but I just wanna say one thing:

Mods did not get picked because some people are friends of each other !

I didn't even really knew Mufasa when I became a mod.
And KTL, you mention Sonique, he was picked by Mufasa aswell at the same time I, STM, Fuzzy, '04 and some others where picked.
And I really have no idea where you got that little story from, that we picked him to get him back.
'Cause that is so not true

Sonique

|^| Well... I don't think I really need to "reconfirm" anything you've said there, Nathalie... But as far as the super-moderation goes, for the people who aren't aware it was done by the moderation staff under the voting process ....

Sorry, I really just don't think that's appropriate; it's making an argument but not allowing anyone to contradict it. If a staff member has something to say, I think they need to open the thread for comments, as leaving it closed really does seem like someone's just trying to get the last word. In this one, Nathalie continues an ongoing issue within the thread by giving her two cents, she talks directly to KTL at one point, and he's not allowed to respond. Then you (sonique) come in and add even more to it, with the topic still closed so there can be no reply. I'm not saying you guys are bad people or bad mods, but I dunno, just doesn't seem appropriate. A closed thread is a closed thread, it should be closed to both members and staff.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 12:28 PM

No but it's not, "I can do some things that you can't," and this is the way the hierarchy works, and when it comes down to it, this is what you are really complaining about isn't it, WEW? Well this is the way I'm perceiving it anyway, sorry. However you want to feel, that's fine with me. Aside that, there is numberous things that still need to be smoothened out between mods and members. But I fear that axiom will never come, not until differences are set aside. We shall see...

:hmm:

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Sonkakee
No but it's not, "I can do some things that you can't," and this is the way the hierarchy works, and when it comes down to it, this is what you are really complaining about isn't it, WEW? Well this is the way I'm perceiving it anyway, sorry. However you want to feel, that's fine with me. Aside that, there is numberous things that still need to be smoothened out between mods and members. But I fear that axiom will never come, not until differences are set aside. We shall see...

:hmm:

Now I'm sorry, but posts like that just seem like you're brushing us off. That's our whole point, bud, it's like some of the staff is throwing their weight around. Howabout instead of saying "This is the way the hierarchy works" and "However you want to feel, that's fine with me", you actually address our concerns? That would seem like the more appropriate, concerned thing to do. Actions speak louder than words, if the staff says it's not a matter of "I can do some things you can't", but they portray a different feeling in each thread, then I think the latter will be an indication of how they really feel.

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by pntbll248
Sorry, I really just don't think that's appropriate; it's making an argument but not allowing anyone to contradict it. If a staff member has something to say, I think they need to open the thread for comments, as leaving it closed really does seem like someone's just trying to get the last word. In this one, Nathalie continues an ongoing issue within the thread by giving her two cents, she talks directly to KTL at one point, and he's not allowed to respond. Then you (sonique) come in and add even more to it, with the topic still closed so there can be no reply. I'm not saying you guys are bad people or bad mods, but I dunno, just doesn't seem appropriate. A closed thread is a closed thread, it should be closed to both members and staff.

When threads are closed there's a lot of unresolved issues. And I have offered to reopen threads during said occasions. But if you cannot respect such decisions, then there's nothing really I can tell you...

nathalie

March 10th, 2006, 12:40 PM

Well excuse me for being away for a week and not being able to defend some things.

Geesh, no wonder I didn't miss this place after 3 days of being gone ... *rolls eyes*

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by pntbll248
Now I'm sorry, but posts like that just seem like you're brushing us off. That's our whole point, bud, it's like some of the staff is throwing their weight around. Howabout instead of saying "This is the way the hierarchy works" and "However you want to feel, that's fine with me", you actually address our concerns? That would seem like the more appropriate, concerned thing to do. Actions speak louder than words, if the staff says it's not a matter of "I can do some things you can't", but they portray a different feeling in each thread, then I think the latter will be an indication of how they really feel.

No I'm not brushing anyone off, I'm just stating... "That's the way things are," ... If the concerns are overwhelming enough, I suggest a decisive solution, because I haven't any to work with, just complaints is all I'm hearing...

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 12:54 PM

I have offered a decisive solution: When a thread is closed, it is closed. Not just closed to members, it's not gonna be an opportunity for a staff member to get in a cute little remark, give their two cents, or otherwise say something other than the initial reason why the thread was closed; if they choose to do so, reopen the thread. That's common sense, guys, and that's the solution.

If you have somethign to say, say it while the thread's open. If, in order to keep with that rule of thumb you have to reopen the thread, then do so.

And Nathalie, no one blamed you for an opinion, we just get irked when your opinion can't be discussed like the rest of us. None of this is an attack, it's a plea for reason.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by nathalie
Well excuse me for being away for a week and not being able to defend some things.

Geesh, no wonder I didn't miss this place after 3 days of being gone ... *rolls eyes*

How, Mature of the mods to say they deserve to be one step ahead of the members once again, "We deserve more rights then you and should be allowed to excercise those rights" Is all I heard in Sonique's posts. Basically being told. "We're better than you, so we deserve more than you.

Didn't people just say "Moderators and Members should be viewed as one"? If viewed as one, don't you think that should be "equal" not different, Rights.

I'll say this, I think the mods could post in closed topics AS LONG AS THEY DON'T TRY TO START ANYTHING. Or CARRY ON ANY ON GOING CONVERSATIONS. If you are going to post in a closed topic, I don't think you should give you're views, you're opinions, or ANYTHING. Since we can't do the same thing. The post should just contain "Might be reopened later" or something relevant to that.

And moderators of a certain subforum can edit, delete, merge, and post in closed topics, Super Mods such as yourself Sonique, can edit and post in any Closed thread. If you are given a certain responsibility as to Moderate a Forums. Don't post somewhere where the member you post about can not defend himself. thats the Main point threads like the "Thanks Neph" Thread was created. If you want to post anything and you posted you're opinion, at least open it so that person you addressed can at least have a chance to defend him or herself.

Thats what I think about this.. Stuff oO

~KTL

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by pntbll248
I have offered a decisive solution: When a thread is closed, it is closed. Not just closed to members, it's not gonna be an opportunity for a staff member to get in a cute little remark, give their two cents, or otherwise say something other than the initial reason why the thread was closed; if they choose to do so, reopen the thread. That's common sense, guys, and that's the solution.

... And my common sense tells me that you'll have to get over it, because that's the way it is....

Rafiki's stick

March 10th, 2006, 01:00 PM

Whoa, what in all is happening in here... :eww:
I thought the mods were doing just great.
......or maybe that's just because I'm new? :confused:

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 01:14 PM

Well... you know something Nuka... I might just take your advice on some things, you are very wise my friend....

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Sonkakee
... And my common sense tells me that you'll have to get over it, because that's the way it is....

Shows how much the Moderators really care about possibly changing to make this place a better place than it already is :) Yeah if you want to consider that an attack, do so. But in my own words, it came from the heart, and thats how I'm seeing this right now.
To me it seems as if "Some" Moderators don't really care for change here, and to see that theres a problem here. And those are the Mods that I find should /not/ even /be/ Moderators. As Moderators it's your Job to listen to what we have to say, and to help the boards be a better place, even if it means sacrificing a little bit of you're powers for the good of us all. It wont be all, Aww I just lost some power, I can' tpost in closed topics anymore.. I'ma go cry now.

Well guess what, Some of us Don't have the right to post there, and some of us get really aggrivated when you Moderators (Some not all) POST in something thats closed, and urk us so much, by YOUR opinions and some of which ARENT true, And we can't even MAKE A MOVE as to defend ourselves like here (http://www.leahalalela.com/showthread.php?threadid=7317&highlight=government) Haha what happened to that thread being reopened?
I just really like how Sonique calls his own forums "Immature"
Notice the attacks and flames that were sent to me in the first few pages, Did I get a chance to defend myself? pft no.
But a Moderator sure got the chance to call us immature. Does that not show you anything!? I sense the presence of insecurity in that thread.
You said everyone had the right to voice their opinions in that thread Sonique, We can't have that right if you close it.

~KTL

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 01:49 PM

Oh... yes.... I had plans to reopen that thread, but why? Since all we can do is flame each other when it comes to insurmountable things. But Hell, who am I to judge. And if all you guys is want to complain about the way things are; I say, you made it that way too... So if you don't like the way I do things make a complaint (as I said time and time again...) Anyway... we have listened time and time again, we haven't a resolution, just a ball of complaints.... Now I think we shall devise it ourselves... and see how that goes.... In the meantime, feel free to nitpick.......

^_^'

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 02:09 PM

*sighs* I cannot believe it is THIS hard for people to run and post on a FORUM. It is the INTERNET for God's sakes!

Alright, one the mods are not evil people who want to abuse their power. They never said they were better than anyone etc. I am not saying they don't do anything wrong, but don't try to make them look evil. After all, that is seperating them from members once again...which is exactly what you (KTL) just used as an example of what the mods are doing..but that is doing it in itself.

That brings me to my next point. My personal view on this issue, is that mods should keep their power, but they are using it in the wrong way. I don't think that the majority of mods here are posting in closed topics like so because they want the last word etc. I think they are just using the power they have to just post what they think. Basically, the quote "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" comes in here. They are just posting their view, but they are in essence doing something that IS wrong.

A Mod should not close a discussion about something because people are arguing..and THEN post their own views in the topic, mentioing people, etc without others being able to respond. If my above statement about mods doing it blindly isnt the case, and they are actually closing the thread to post their view without getting flamed, then that IS wrong. I am not one who thinks the mods are evil, or different than us. Mods are members, and should play by the same rules in terms of etiquette (sp?). Of course we give them powers to moderate, and some things the members DO have to live with....but posting in a closed thread about a discussion is like having a debate where one candidate isn't allowed to answer. Not to mention..WHY would you do that unless you wanted the last word? The more I write this, the more I tend to think the mods are doing something wrong here. You have a mod forum, PMs, and IMs. If you want to discuss a closed thread then do it there, not in the same thread you closed where no one can respond.

I hope everyone knows that I am not totally agianst the mods or anything. I take the side of which I think is right, and in this case it is the members. There needs to be a stop to this tension filled gap between mods and members. Members need to lay off of making the mods seem so evil, because they really aren't/ Personally KTL, it seems like you do not agree with anything the mods do..and you tend to just argue with or point out their faults all the time. I don't think that is the way to mend anything. Pnt, I always admire how you handle it because you tend to focus on the issue and not the group..and that is a good thing.

All in all, the mods need to listen to the public on certain issues, and the public needs to learn to deal with decisions they do not like sometimes. If these are done, I think that Lea's atmosphere will definitely improve.

~Kiva

unregistered user

March 10th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Only-now
I don't think that the majority of mods here are posting in closed topics like so because they want the last word etc. I think they are just using the power they have to just post what they think. Basically, the quote "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" comes in here.

Indeed. That's what exactly I was trying to do. But people tend to misinterpret it as something else. But that's to be expected, after all; if that's all you are looking for, that's all you're going to see. And I have offered to reopen any thread if need be, or just for an instance, which no-one else would probably do. But... well.... hmm....... =/

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 02:33 PM

I didn't say it was all the memebers fault at all, but I am 100% that most of the "problems" on this thread do come from the members and NOT the mods. Them being members applies in some situations and not others. Since they are mods, but are also members, I guess we should all have the same powers as them as well then? That isn't how I meant it to come across.

Also, I do NOT think that there is a huge problem with the mods whatsoever. I think that there are a few select people who either have a personal issue with the mods from something they did, or a mistake a mod made, or do not like authority. KTL had a problem with the mods, Pnt had one, etc. You two both have had your own problems with the mods, whether it was your or the mods mistake doesnt matter. It doesn't seem like many people. including myself, have been hurt by the mods,or thier policies. I don't think the majority of Lea is suffering. You know, Scar's Lair is the only place where all these problem threads come from, and members get in trouble etc. This is the forum with the widest variety of topics, some which are hot ones that inspire debate. That would mean that more members are going go step over the line, mods are going to be more strict, and sometimes be a little rash because of the aura of this particular forum. All the other forums are doing just fine. The majority of the members don't have a problem with the mods at all. That isn't to say that they don't make mistake, or need to change things (as evident with me agreeing with pnt, and KTL in the "reporting" thread), but they are not in serious need of changing. I wonder if anyone here realizes that I am a member, and not a mod. I never got into any trouble that wasn't a disagreement I could handle. Of course, there are times when I disagree with what a mod is saying, or their decision, but people ARE making this seem like it is a forum-wide issue and it isnt. That is what I mean by being dramatic. Have any of you ever thought that maybe the way you handle yourself, etc may affect how the mods treat you, or why you feel like the mods are so against you? I feel like I have to fight both "sides" of this now. In one thread I have to agree with what some of the members are saying, and in the other, I agree with the mods. In all seriousness, I think that the quality of Lea's members has gone down since I joined. We used to not have or NEED mods until new members who spam, break the rules, curse, post outrageous topics, etc joined. Now, look at what is happening...SOMEHOW the mods have become "evil people" who are power hungry. Somehow, these same people who were picked as mods and are excellent members are now SO different, and bad and I guess the new members have NOTHING to do with that right? It is ALL the mods fault, and they are just out to get you. *sighs* Nothing lasts forever...

~Kiva

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 02:38 PM

Sonique...if I were you, I would concede to the members here. They are not acking for a lot at all. There is no reason why you NEED to be able to post about a topic after you close the thread. Basically, that is only going to make it seem like you are trying to use your power to get your way, and if that isn't the case, then I wouldn't go down that path. I know the mods are not evil people who just want to control Lea, but doing something like so, even if you didn't mean it in a bad way, comes off as one. If you want to post in a closed topic, then say something about why it was closed etc..but avoid the issue the topic is about unless the topic is open for everyone to discuss. Do you see what I am saying? They have a point that once a topic is closed, it should be closed for everyone. Take a look at the other thread about moderators to see what I think about the whole issue here...which isn't as big a deal as it seems. If you are wrong, just admit you are...and I think you are a smart enough person to see where we are coming from.

~Kiva

Amaryllis

March 10th, 2006, 03:17 PM

good lord, they arent moderators for nothing.

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 04:16 PM

Look, I'm seeing a staff member tell members to get over it when they have brought up a perfectly valid concern. Now, I think that only furthers our beliefs that there's an issue here that needs addressed. If someone, member or staff, thinks they can tell someone else to just "Get over it" and that'll be that, they're sadly mistaken. Now please, do not tell us to get over it again, we have not attacked you and we have not said you're a bad person or something; we have only raised a concern. This is something that is important to us, and we'd appreciate a little more than "Get over it"; I'm more than willing to talk it over and reach an agreement, but saying "Get over it" just isn't gonna cut it.

ChildOfThePride

March 10th, 2006, 04:22 PM

At one of the forums I moderate at, we don't have any problems regarding mods vs. members, and I tihnk I know why.

It's the fact that the mods here are just a little too picky...

Don't close a thread as a first defense if people are arguing....Let them resolve it through PM first, and if they don't, then you can and should lock the thread....and don't post in a thread after it's been locked. That's just lording it over us, and that's unfair.

I agree with others that have said Mufasa and Sarabi need to return. Nathalie's great and all, but we need other admins too. She's just one person.

Aurelian

March 10th, 2006, 04:38 PM

Sarabi resigned. :(

We all wish Muffy could return full time, but he is a busy man.

Sombody mentioned that they feel that we have to many more mods now then we did before. However, in reality, we have less. Nuka, Boos, and Sarabi resigned, Fuzzy and Ghalati have severe RL problems to deal with, and Muffy and Ngatny are barely active anymore. STM also has to deal with school and Sharifu has ongoing computer problems. That leave 5 or 6 fully active mods.

BTW, and this is to everybody, we will never get anywhere if we sit here argueing about argueing.

ChildOfThePride

March 10th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Sarabi resigned? Really? O_O'

When did that happen?

Sadiki

March 10th, 2006, 04:59 PM

ok...

First of all. Don't generalize how moderators are. We are all as own persons ase everyone else in this world, so please stop saying " Moderators this, Moderators that" because it is just going to make those mad who have done nothing.

Second. Threads like "thanks Neph" and such shouldn't be allowed. no matter who is it about, the case is not that Neph is moderator, the thing is that public humiliation is not allowed in here or at least that is what I think. such a things can be done via MSN, Yahoo, Email or PM's.

Third. I agree with a lot of people that moderators/admins should add their opinions on closed threads, but if they have something to add the reason why it's closed it should be ok. Sometimes moderators can post closed threads in an axcident tho, sinse the only diffrence is that "Post Reply" mark says " thread closed " otherwise everything looks the same and at least I never use that button, so I don't pay attention to it.

fourth. This place isn't like military camp, but sinse there is rules and if those are broken consequences depending how serious the case is. if someone will get warned 3 times it will automaticly lead on banning no matter who it is. Also in the worst cases the person might be banned right away. In example for serious spamming or repeative swearing. you have to remember that this board is still about family movie.

Fifth. The case so many people do use "no offence" or "I don't want anyone to get offended" is because people don't want offend people, but as you read text you easily get it that way sinse you can't add any sort of tune in your text. It's just there for people to know you don't want to anyone getting offended and that it is only your honest opinion and that you are respectiong others opinions, but want to let out your own opinion.

sixth. If you get reported and have done nothing wrong, no farther action will be taken and if that keep happening the person who is reporting stuff for no reason might get warned because every time someone report someone, every single moderator have to go and check if there is something wrong in that perosn actions, sinse we can never know if someone have done it already.

seventh. This IS NOT our job to take care of everything that is happening on this board, it's more like a hobby, we don't get paid from it and reasently we have just gotten compaining and **** on us no matter what we have done. It is every single person responability to make this forum pleasant place to post. So stop saying that it is our job to do something sinse there is no way that we can check everything. the reason why there is report button is that you can let us know if there is something wrong.

And the last, but not least. Everyone, I mean every single person who ever have had to join in this board have the same rules, have same rights and can see their honest opinion as long as that argument is made in polite way without useing any swearing or brakeing any of pride rules. If you feel need to start arguing with someone, take it to somewhere else. This board is not made for arguing or letting people down, it's made for people to meet people that share the same intreses and for makeing friends. So please quit this noncense already, we are not getting anywhere by memebers first saying what mods should or should not be done and then mods replying what memebers have done or should do.

IF SOMETHING ON MY POST IS OFFENDING YOU ANY WAY. PLEASE CONTACT ME VIA MSN or PM.

if something else need to be said, you can continue here.

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
And the last, but not least. Everyone, I mean every single person who ever have had to join in this board have the same rules, have same rights and can see their honest opinion as long as that argument is made in polite way without useing any swearing or brakeing any of pride rules. If you feel need to start arguing with someone, take it to somewhere else. This board is not made for arguing or letting people down, it's made for people to meet people that share the same intreses and for makeing friends. So please quit this noncense already, we are not getting anywhere by memebers first saying what mods should or should not be done and then mods replying what memebers have done or should do.

*sigh* We have addressed a concern, we have given what we would like done about that concern, and we have been brushed aside and told to get over it. What do you people, lea, want from us? What else is there to say? We have been put in between a rock and a hard place, because we have an initial problem, but we also have the problem that the people who can fix the problem are not willing to address the problem. I mean, we're told by the staff that if we have a problem, say so and it will be dealt with, but when we talk about that problem, people are saying we're arguing, to quit being dramatic, and to give up.

Look, you guys have made it clear that you're not willing to address our concerns. I am willing to help this forum improve, but I cannot help a forum that will not accept help. You've* disregarded legitimate concerns, tried to turn attention from the problem onto people or groups of people, and have told us to get over it. We have conceeded that we need improvemen as well and will be willing to improve, but you have not. What else do I have to offer to a forum that behaves this way? Very little, I'm afraid. There is just nothing left to be done if no one is willing to work on these issues, but would rather say "Stop this nonsense" or "Get over it". I'm sorry, I just don't know what to do with you guys, you're just not willing to work through this, and lea's gonna continue to be this cess pool of drama, arguments, and complete idiocy until you are. And I don't mean that to sound arrogant, I'm just as much at fault as everyone else, but I'm just getting fed up with all this "Get over it", "Quit arguing", and "Stop this nonsense".

*Not meaning you in particular, STM.

Sadiki

March 10th, 2006, 05:50 PM

well I really wanted to see what you think about those 3 subjects and see what you would do. and the main reason was that I knew opinions gonna split.
especially on swearing it did. That swearing is not bothering most of people doesn't mean it need to be used and what Pnt said that there is places where you need swearing is not true at least that stuff doesn't belong on this board. I seriously can't think of any situation where you can't replace swearing with something else.

About arguings and threads where some people attack on each other, we have yet never just close the thread right away. but after it just keeps going on and on and on. the only way is to close it, sinse it doesn't seems those people want to take it to somewhere else sinse any of the subjects on Lea have purpouse to insult anyone or start flame wars.

Third question was made for an instance that some members, not telling the names have gotten annoied with. I personally don't really care as long as people don't make 5 threads like that per day and that way cause troubles for running the server. also this wanted to show that people can never agree about anything, there is always someone who thinks otherwise. So it seriously isn't a easy job to choose between right and wrong.

Sadiki

March 10th, 2006, 06:09 PM

by saying quite the nonsense, I ment that blameing it on each other is not going to get us anywhere. We have to consentrate on the problem(s) whatever those are.
I don't think any of moderators have abuse their powers, yet in some cases I wish there would be more talking on moderator forum about the thing before takeing action.
I can't say anything about the way other moderators work, but I personaly do lisen what members have to say, but it is a lot easier to talk with you all about it and see what you have to say, if you contact me some other way then posting it on forum, just beacause it easily gets lost between lines/posts. So don't be afraid to contact us, I bet others then me want to hear about your ideas too. posting it on board isn't just the best option honestly.

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 06:39 PM

Okay, so we've all said what we needed to say, by my knowledge at least, and this is getting rather repetitive. If you have something else to add, and it's constructive, then by all means add it.

So here's the next part of the issue:

Moderators -- Are you willing to:

1. Respect the concerns of the forum members and try to work with us to come to a solution. Likewise, don't argue with eachother forever and eventually not do anything.

2. Not use personal grudge or emotion in making a moderating decision. Use reason and a level-head when dealing with a possible rule infraction.

3. Allow the members a decent chance to solve their own issues and respect that everyone on this board is capable of coming to an agreement on his/her own ability. Realize that we are all human, and we are all capable as human beings of both making mistakes, and correcting them therein.

4. Not close a thread and then add a personal remark, reply to another board user, add your own opinion, or otherwise say something that would normally be replied to. Likewise, not post such things after a thread is closed.

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

6. In no way otherwise abuse the power you have as a moderator or use it in a way that is sarcastic, personal, or out-of-proportion to the issue at hand.

7. Be forgiving in certain situations, even in rule infractions. The purpose of a "Warning" is not to bring a person closer to banning, but to help them avert such a action being taken.

8. Realize that you are able to have this forum continue like clockwork given less-than-perfect conditions, such as the absence of an administrator (or other moderator) or other situations. Finally, you do not need to run everything by Mufasa.

Members -- Are you willing to:

1. Realize that the mods as a whole mean well for the forum.

2. Realize that the mods are also human and just as capable of mistakes.

3. Be forgiving when a moderator does something wrong (but not outrageous), as the moderators will be equally forgiving when a member does something wrong (but not outrageous).

4. Realize that the moderators are trying very hard to provide a good posting environment for all the users of this board to post in. Likewise, if they are constantly told they're doing badly, that's going to hurt them like it would any other person.

5. Be willing to take care of your own posts, as the job of keeping order does not rest solely on the staff. This includes taking your personal issues to a private means should you feel the need to argue about something in a way that would be breaking a forum rule. Keep in mind that that harrassment through PM is just as bad, if not worse, as harrassment in a thread or post.

6. Be willing to bring up a concern in a mature and polite way, instead of throwing insults or otherwise acting inappropriately.

7. Be willing to not hold grudges either, as the moderators will be returning the favor.

8. Be willing to give the staff the same respect you yourself would expect to be given.

9. Be willing to use that decent chance to resolve your issues with someone before a thread is closed to actually resolve you issues with someone before a thread is closed.

Can everyone agree to:

Stop with this constant bickering that is present anywhere and everywhere on this forum.

I for one can say "Yes" on my part. I think if a person has a problem with any of those points above, and cannot give a legitimate reason, that person is a hindrance to the general order of the forum. If both members and moderators can agree to these points, and will follow through with it, I think the situation can be called resolved. And even if someone thinks they haven't violated even one of those things, then hey, I'm sure you won't have any problem agreeing to those.

Edit: Okay, edited it a few times for clarification and because someone brought up another point that needed added. It's done being edited.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 07:47 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_moderator

Among a moderator's enforcement duties is often the duty to stop flaming and keep the board a friendly place, free of personal insults

By Wikipedia itself :o

I agree so much with Pnt its not even funny, You tell us to take some action by making judgements ourself on things, and to use this report button because its not you're job to look over everything? Pfft. Dude, As Moderators that is You're job, Hence "Moderator" "Moderate" ? See a connection? Mmkay good. Thats why every one here at Lea is not a Moderator, because its not there job, but a select fews to do the "Policing" and "counciling" of the boards.

What I see now is, That when the embers have a problem. The mods don't even want to help solve it, Even if it meant taking away just a little bit of their "Oh so mighty" power.

Would it REALLY Kill you to not post in a closed topic? I mean really. Are you* that immature as to not want to be able to be like the rest of us? Meh

I don't really get what is up with the moderators of Lea, but some I agree with, and am glad that are agreeing with us, and that there is a problem and are trying to set things straight. But then theirs some that tell us to "Get over it" or whatever, and some that tell us to "Back off", Let me tell the Mods something. Just because you say "Back off" Doesnt mean we have to. We have every right to post, and come back to a topic, at any time and place, just like you guys do. when you tell a member to "back off" thats just saying you are beating you're chests, showing off you're power to try and make yourself look big and fancy.

But one thing thats been addressed, and still no conclusion, the closed topic crap, and the snitcy picky going on with sarcasmic things that Mods post, and thier over abusing powers. Such as this here:

Originally posted by nathalie
Why on earth do you need to write those words anyway?

And if we decide to put those words in the filter, then we will put those words in the filter.

That my friends, is power abusing. Which is something No moderator or member should do, but mostly mods because members have NO powers what so ever. When a debate comes up, and a mod says "Shut up now" and you don't. Oh you get in trouble for not listening. But if a Mod posts after the "shut up" has been giving, its alright for them because they are Mods and can do what they want and when they want in a post.

More stuff I'd like to point out:

Nathalie
Aargh, see, I don't come on for 1 evening and stuff happens.

1. Neph didn't do anything wrong. She closed it and said the right thing about going to that other thread.
2. This mod bashing that goes on ... don't worry, actions will be definatly taken, no one calls me or any other mod an asswhole anymore !
3. This Land: if you wanna quit school, talk to your parents about it

This is taken from "Thanks Neph" That post, was not even necessary. Nathalie no offense. But you saying exactly what I said doesnt even help the situation! You just bring it back up again and try to start the whole thing over. But whats this. It can't because its closed. What I'm trying to say is. When their is a closed topic, no matter who it is. A mod will always post in it and give their opinion, and sometimes state something that might not have been true, and the person who was said towards can't defend themselves.. like this:

Nephilim
Wow, I kind of get the feeling this thread was made to start problems.

Seriously, I've never seen anything quite as ridiculous as this on Lea. Guh! As anti-religious as I am, and as much as Bible passages make me roll my eyes sometimes, people have the right to put what they want! (So long as it's not adult material. )

I'm gonna go and close this thread, to stop a surge of wank.

I agree that the thread should have been closed, just because of the attacks in that "bible verses" thread. But this part
and as much as Bible passages make me roll my eyes sometimes, Was not necessary. Was that not.. Harassment to the christian belief? Hmm reportable.. uh oh oO But yeah sorry if its not but I believe that it is.

Another thing I'd like to point out about closing threads is this:

Sonique
That site has adult-oriented material on it, and can't be presented here. Now, if you can find another site that has the same advert with its decency intact, that's fine. Regardless, this thread is hereby closed...
No offense or bad thoughts to you Sonique, but you told the guy to find another site possible for that advert (The banned x-box 360 commercial) But you closed the thread. From what I've seen at lea for multiple threads being created that have been made already. If he had made a new thread about it, I can see right about now him being flamed "This has already been made before.." or "Stop posting the same stuff over and over" or "theres a thread here already use it!" But the last one doesnt fit this one since its closed, but those can be used. Not only do the Mods do this, but the members are guilty also, for harassing and spamming about threads being bumped up, and multiple threads being created.

I think I've said enough.. and will probably get a lot of abuse from this post. But it is my opinions, and I am entitled to them fully. And if you don't like it, do what the Moderators say "Get over it"

*You does not mean you STM, but of the Mods that are not agreeing with us right now.

~KTL

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by pntbll248

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

Thats another thing I wanted to bring up but couldnt think of it,

Moderators you are here to enforce the rules of the Forums. Not tell us what we can and can not do (Unless the things you say is in the Rules themselves) Like I said in the other forums when you say "Back off" Or "Dont post here" We don't have to listen to a word you say on that. Its not in the rules that says "obey the mods, they are your gods and masters" So how about, Don't act like it and things would be a lot better.

And Kiva stated that only a select few have problems with the mods? Maybe thats because they have problems with us Perhaps you just havn't been caught at the wrong time at the right moment. Or whatever the saying is. You you'reself Kiva said that The mods weren't evil people trying to abuse their powers, then you turn around and contradict yourself saying they use their powers the wrong way? Dude oO I"m lost lol, I'm on both sides of this arguments, i'm with the Mods, and Members. All I'm trying to state is that well nevermind its been said here about a thousand times. so no point in saying it :p

I myself, agree with Pnt's demands (Not really but suggestions) But the thing I have in my head now, Is the moderators wont accept it because they dont want to look like normal people. They want to look higher and above the regular person in the forums. but hell for all I could know, they all could agree. But somewhere in my mind I just don't see it happening in this day and time, especially not at Lea.

but its just saddening to see such a nice forums like this having this happening, but I know other forusm that are spammed 24/7 and the members still agree and the modds still agree with each other. But here, asking a little thing of the mods they wont even DO it. There, they would because well. The fact is without members, there are no mods.

~KTL

And with that I'm out,

EDIT:

Also I've noticed a high number of mods, and even our own admin Nathalie, going invisible. Why that sudden change? In this thread here (http://www.leahalalela.com/showthread.php?threadid=6613&highlight=invisible)
To the Mods, who continue to say "Moderators are the same as members" So that means you are the same as us, Members.

Answer Nathalie's first post question. Are you afraid that we will see what you are looking at? Are you scared for you're name to show up on the online list? Just seems funny how you'd complain about it, then do it yourself. Heh

Juniper

March 10th, 2006, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Moderators you are here to enforce the rules of the Forums. Not tell us what we can and can not do (Unless the things you say is in the Rules themselves) Like I said in the other forums when you say "Back off" Or "Dont post here" We don't have to listen to a word you say on that. Its not in the rules that says "obey the mods, they are your gods and masters" So how about, Don't act like it and things would be a lot better.

My personal view on it is that if a rule isn't broken, then a mod telling a member to do something is just like a member telling a member to do something, it isn't required in any way, but if it's not something you wanna get worked up over, then don't. Just thought I'd get it in the open that the moderators are here to enforce the rules, and have every right to do so, but we are supposed to follow the rules, not the mods. If you have broken a rule, however, and the moderator decides to deal with it (and it's all justified), then hey, that's a whole different ball game.

And don't worry, bud, I think the vast majority of forum users would be able to reach this agreement as long as the other side is willing to as well.

Edit: Just adressing your concern over some people going invisible; I personally like being invisible, that way no one knows when or where I'm gonna strike next :evilgrin:

Aurelian

March 10th, 2006, 08:38 PM

I don't know about the other mods, but I have made it a point not to retort in a closed thread. If i am going to lock somthing, I will state the action taken and the reason, and nothing more. I do not believe in using powers meant to help the forum for my own personal use. But that's me.

As for Pnt's list, I think it is an extremely good start, and while I need to do some self work on some of them, namely the emotional issues, I intend to do my absoulte best to work with those ideals.

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 09:48 PM

What exactly IS the problem on the board here? What exactly needs to change? People keep saying "Oh, the mods are being abusive, etc" okay...so what WOULD you like the board to work like? Maybe instead of pointing out every instance in which a mod did something you didn't like, give an idea on how to improve what you don't like.

KTL, on EVERY thread ALL you do is criticize mods, and pretty much every single one of them. The majority of your post is pointing out how the mods are failing, but you FAIL to help much at all. STM is right that it is the responsibility of ALL members to make judgments about their own behavior, etc. Apparently, A LOT of people are lacking that ability. Mods ARE supposed to moderate, but only in the situation where there is an argument, flame etc. It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread. Apparently, the people on Lea are NOT as mature as once thought if the mods DO have to do that. People should be able to solve some problems themselves, and the fact that that isnt the case leads me to believe this is one of the reasons mods close threads so quickly. No one here CAN solve problems themselves, and when they actually manage to, and the mods have closed the thread, it is unacceptable. I think that the members set the stage, and the mods act on it...it is a mistake to close the thread, but they used their judgement based off of what the members set up over the months and weeks before.

I REALLY fail to see the huge problem with mods here, and it seems to only be perpetuated by Pnt and KTL here. I don't see many other members that are outraged, or unsatisifed. Personally, I think you guys are doing more harm than good. You say that mods are allowed to make mistake, yet when they do, you connect each one together like it is a trend when it isn't. Nathalie makes some mistakes, Neph is a little harsh, Sonique closes a thread, etc. Then you just link all those together when they are completely seperate, and make it seem like it is a forum problem. You LOOK for something to point out that is wrong. I am not someone who agrees with the mods every time. Sonque has made me disagree with him, same with the posting in closed threads, but you guys are taking this way too far and making this a much less enjoyable place to be.

~Kiva

Only-now

March 10th, 2006, 10:01 PM

There is a difference between being "evil" and making mistakes with your powers SOMETIMES. I never said the mods always abuse their powers etc...maybe you need to read a bit more closelt next time.

I agree with Pnt's suggestions, and maybe you do have a legitimate concern..but KTL..it seems like you DO have a personal grudge against the mods. Pnt was trying to solve the situation, by listing those reasons, but in your post..you instantly bring up something that makes the mods look worse. You apparently think that they are out there just to control us, and that isnt the vibe I get from Pnt. You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...that just proves that you do have a personal vendetta against them. The reason I don't have a problem with the mods is because I don't break the rules, and if I do, I don't then spend every opportunity I have criticizing them.

Anyways, I think that those are very logical and normal suggestions. The only thing that I have a "problem" with is the fact that this all came up in the first place. I never saw a problem that was as bad as these threads made it out to be. If that will solve your problem, and make you feel better, etc..then that is fine. Anything to stop this drama that i personally never saw a need for is much appreciated. It almost reminds me of the Bill Of Rights. It was repetitive, and such..but it made he states happy, so they had to include it. Same there here, there is no major problem, but a few people think so (for whatever reasons) and thus have to have this "bill of rights" agreed to to make everything alright. If that works this out, then it is perfectly fine with me...even though I am not someone who saw a problem THIS large.

~Kiva

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Only-now
What exactly IS the problem on the board here? What exactly needs to change? People keep saying "Oh, the mods are being abusive, etc" okay...so what WOULD you like the board to work like? Maybe instead of pointing out every instance in which a mod did something you didn't like, give an idea on how to improve what you don't like.

KTL, on EVERY thread ALL you do is criticize mods, and pretty much every single one of them. The majority of your post is pointing out how the mods are failing, but you FAIL to help much at all. STM is right that it is the responsibility of ALL members to make judgments about their own behavior, etc. Apparently, A LOT of people are lacking that ability. Mods ARE supposed to moderate, but only in the situation where there is an argument, flame etc. It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread. Apparently, the people on Lea are NOT as mature as once thought if the mods DO have to do that. People should be able to solve some problems themselves, and the fact that that isnt the case leads me to believe this is one of the reasons mods close threads so quickly. No one here CAN solve problems themselves, and when they actually manage to, and the mods have closed the thread, it is unacceptable. I think that the members set the stage, and the mods act on it...it is a mistake to close the thread, but they used their judgement based off of what the members set up over the months and weeks before.

I REALLY fail to see the huge problem with mods here, and it seems to only be perpetuated by Pnt and KTL here. I don't see many other members that are outraged, or unsatisifed. Personally, I think you guys are doing more harm than good. You say that mods are allowed to make mistake, yet when they do, you connect each one together like it is a trend when it isn't. Nathalie makes some mistakes, Neph is a little harsh, Sonique closes a thread, etc. Then you just link all those together when they are completely seperate, and make it seem like it is a forum problem. You LOOK for something to point out that is wrong. I am not someone who agrees with the mods every time. Sonque has made me disagree with him, same with the posting in closed threads, but you guys are taking this way too far and making this a much less enjoyable place to be.

~Kiva

Oh hell no you didn't. I'm not getting to far in here, but all you can do is read this:

Kovu The Lion
But the word Mod is probably used to describe more good than bad, thanks to the so called "Reputation' The moderators are putting upon themselves. And some are doing an EXCELLENT job, and its just a select few that are making mistakes, and making the members use once again "The Moderators" and the mods once again think. "I havn't done that" or "When did I do this.." when the member was actually trying to convey the point to someone directly, but can't because they can't say a members name or they'd get in trouble.

and I've also stated PLENTY of times that I'm with the mods on many decisions, But some I just don't find constitutional, or right and what the hell and who the heck gave you the permission to call me out like that, with crap that wasn't even true? I'm not turning this into a flame war however. But if you want to know what we are fighting for. Read the thread Kiva.

Kiva
You LOOK for something to point out that is wrong.
I wonder what you're last post just was..

If I were like you in certain situations, I would report you so badly for that post.

And as already said this is what we want done:

Pntbll248
Moderators -- Are you willing to:

1. Respect the concerns of the forum members and try to work with us to come to a solution. Likewise, don't argue with eachother forever and eventually not do anything.

2. Not use personal grudge or emotion in making a moderating decision. Use reason and a level-head when dealing with a possible rule infraction.

3. Allow the members a decent chance to solve their own issues and respect that everyone on this board is capable of coming to an agreement on his/her own ability. Realize that we are all human, and we are all capable as human beings of both making mistakes, and correcting them therein.

4. Not close a thread and then add a personal remark, reply to another board user, add your own opinion, or otherwise say something that would normally be replied to. Likewise, not post such things after a thread is closed.

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

6. In no way otherwise abuse the power you have as a moderator or use it in a way that is sarcastic, personal, or out-of-proportion to the issue at hand.

7. Be forgiving in certain situations, even in rule infractions. The purpose of a "Warning" is not to bring a person closer to banning, but to help them avert such a action being taken.

8. Realize that you are able to have this forum continue like clockwork given less-than-perfect conditions, such as the absence of an administrator (or other moderator) or other situations. Finally, you do not need to run everything by Mufasa.

Members -- Are you willing to:

1. Realize that the mods as a whole mean well for the forum.

2. Realize that the mods are also human and just as capable of mistakes.

3. Be forgiving when a moderator does something wrong (but not outrageous), as the moderators will be equally forgiving when a member does something wrong (but not outrageous).

4. Realize that the moderators are trying very hard to provide a good posting environment for all the users of this board to post in. Likewise, if they are constantly told they're doing badly, that's going to hurt them like it would any other person.

5. Be willing to take care of your own posts, as the job of keeping order does not rest solely on the staff. This includes taking your personal issues to a private means should you feel the need to argue about something in a way that would be breaking a forum rule. Keep in mind that that harrassment through PM is just as bad, if not worse, as harrassment in a thread or post.

6. Be willing to bring up a concern in a mature and polite way, instead of throwing insults or otherwise acting inappropriately.

7. Be willing to not hold grudges either, as the moderators will be returning the favor.

8. Be willing to give the staff the same respect you yourself would expect to be given.

9. Be willing to use that decent chance to resolve your issues with someone before a thread is closed to actually resolve you issues with someone before a thread is closed.

Only-now
It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread.
I beg to differ, I read every post thats made in lea because its a slow forums and theres nothing else to do. Try doing stuff before you talk bud.

No one here CAN solve problems themselves,

Which is why we have asked the mods to try and change themselves, also stating that we the members would change. I don't know where you have been bud. But a LOT of members harass the Mods, either it be on the forums, or in a PM, It HAPPENS. And I'm sorry that you don't want to agree with us and our problems here, that you are just so fucking perfect and you don't see the real atmosphere of these situations. If you read I swear you would find other members who would agree, like W-eyed-wanderer. But nah, you'd rather post you're own opinions and attack others with stuff that aint true Right?

You say that mods are allowed to make mistake, yet when they do, you connect each one together like it is a trend when it isn't. Nathalie makes some mistakes, Neph is a little harsh, Sonique closes a thread, etc. Then you just link all those together when they are completely seperate, and make it seem like it is a forum problem

The reason I do, Because if I can give examples, maybe people unlike you will start to see that there is a problem here, and that it does need to be solved and that it is affecting people. If not the whole forums, but a few select people that care

~KTL

Nicoga

March 10th, 2006, 10:07 PM

To be perfectly honest, this place is starting to scare me. And I mean, SCARE ME. I've seen some pretty harsh things said about the mods, some even blown out of proportions to the point where they become all-out lies just to chip at their emotional state, and I've seen mods turn member concerns down and use the "thread lock" option to post their opinion without getting flamed. I came here to make friends and this is what I see.

Needless to say, I haven't made any GOOD good friends, and possibly only two. People are too busy BICKERING and disrespecting each other that they have lost sight of why Lea is even existing: to be a FRIENDLY, LION KING-related forum.

I'm not taking sides on this matter simply because I feel pretty much outcast by most of the people here, but this is just ridiculous. Members should NOT be hating the mods as much as they do and insulting them at every little bad thing that happens! Mods should not be ignoring member concerns and only inciting more hatred by using their powers of the almighty as a sword and shield! The problem is not the mods. The problem is not the members. It's BOTH the mods AND the members. Most people here are picking sides and just blatantly attacking the opposition, without seeing the GOOD they bring with them. Members make this site what it is and provide some interesting topics. Mods keep the flame wars down to a minimum and protect those that feel threatened.

But quite honestly, I expected better out of this place... It's very beautifully put together, it has links to all around the world, and the majority of people here are nice, different opinions or not. I may not be as attached to Lea as most people are, but it hurts to even open the website for it...

I dunno, it may have been a huge mistake even signing up here. And if this keeps rolling on and on with all the hatred and troubles and crap, I'm gonna leave before my sanity dries up.

Otherwise, good luck. There ain't squat this little newbie can do to change anything with this war going on.

Kovu The Lion

March 10th, 2006, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by Only-now
There is a difference between being "evil" and making mistakes with your powers SOMETIMES. I never said the mods always abuse their powers etc...maybe you need to read a bit more closelt next time.

I agree with Pnt's suggestions, and maybe you do have a legitimate concern..but KTL..it seems like you DO have a personal grudge against the mods. Pnt was trying to solve the situation, by listing those reasons, but in your post..you instantly bring up something that makes the mods look worse. You apparently think that they are out there just to control us, and that isnt the vibe I get from Pnt. You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...that just proves that you do have a personal vendetta against them. The reason I don't have a problem with the mods is because I don't break the rules, and if I do, I don't then spend every opportunity I have criticizing them.

Anyways, I think that those are very logical and normal suggestions. The only thing that I have a "problem" with is the fact that this all came up in the first place. I never saw a problem that was as bad as these threads made it out to be. If that will solve your problem, and make you feel better, etc..then that is fine. Anything to stop this drama that i personally never saw a need for is much appreciated. It almost reminds me of the Bill Of Rights. It was repetitive, and such..but it made he states happy, so they had to include it. Same there here, there is no major problem, but a few people think so (for whatever reasons) and thus have to have this "bill of rights" agreed to to make everything alright. If that works this out, then it is perfectly fine with me...even though I am not someone who saw a problem THIS large.

~Kiva

Kiva, If the mods dont want to look bad, they shouldn't do bad things, no? Now please stop calling me out, and making me look like a complete *** hole. I have no problems with the Moderators, I have problems with the way they run things, but not the people and that is a BIG difference, Thats where you do not SEE WHAT I AM DOING.

You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...

Nope, Sonique did that himself by saying he wouldn't agree with the posting in closed topics stuff :D You probably don't see this as a big problem, because you hav'nt been affected yet, and nothing has happened to you. so you have nothing to relate to. and have no reason to do anything at all. With that said, I'm taking a nap. I don't need this.

~KTL

Utora

March 10th, 2006, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Only-now
..but KTL..it seems like you DO have a personal grudge against the mods. Pnt was trying to solve the situation, by listing those reasons, but in your post..you instantly bring up something that makes the mods look worse. You apparently think that they are out there just to control us, and that isnt the vibe I get from Pnt. You say you think that they are higher than us, and they won't agree...that just proves that you do have a personal vendetta against them. The reason I don't have a problem with the mods is because I don't break the rules, and if I do, I don't then spend every opportunity I have criticizing them.

~Kiva

You apparently think that they are out there just to control us -

Moderators you are here to enforce the rules of the Forums. Not tell us what we can and can not do (Unless the things you say is in the Rules themselves) Like I said in the other forums when you say "Back off" Or "Dont post here" We don't have to listen to a word you say on that. Its not in the rules that says "obey the mods, they are your gods and masters" So how about, Don't act like it and things would be a lot better.

Kivitts is right, I sense that you feel the Moderators are just there controlling us - which doesn't mean you now need to get angry and flame me or any person which you haven't yet but I'm stating for posts after this. Kiva is trying to show you another aspect. If you think he's making you an *** by doing so, then I find it impossible for us to ever settle this.

Kiva, If the mods dont want to look bad, they shouldn't do bad things, no? Now please stop calling me out, and making me look like a complete *** hole.

He's not - he's replying to your posts with the same approach as you.

Aurelian

March 10th, 2006, 10:31 PM

KTL, Kiva, time to seperate a bit. Going at eachother throats won't do a thing.

Kiva, I'm glad all looks well to you. That means YOU are doing somthing right. However, while the forum isn't dieing as KTL is saying, there is definatly some room for major improovement. As Pnt stated, I don't think the board needs to change, just the members within(meaning mods too). Not change who we are, but how we react to situations. Meanwhile, I am going to see if I can work out a few things that might at least reasure everybody.

Amaryllis

March 10th, 2006, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Nicoga
To be perfectly honest, this place is starting to scare me. And I mean, SCARE ME.

im with you.

Didnt this forum start with certain rules, and arent moderators like the second bosses next to *in this case Mufasa* the owner of the forum?

My statement ?nd opinion: If you don't like any of the rules, ?re the moderators, then please leave.

If im not mistaken, Mufasa is the one who gives certain people the moderating honor, and if he believes that th?y are the ones who should have it, then th?y are right. So is Mufasa.

Anyways, this is just my opinion, i didn't mean this post as in a mean way ore anything. I actually agree with every single one of you, that's why this is hard for me to give any opinion. I will say one thing though: this forum has changed completely then when i just joined, and i think that's a pity.. Because i miss the old lea, the lea where i'd admire moderators and where i wanted to be one. Where i could be proud at decent people. But its all gone now, not forgotten though. I really wish i could turn back time..

Sadiki

March 10th, 2006, 11:05 PM

"Also I've noticed a high number of mods, and even our own admin Nathalie, going invisible. Why that sudden change? In this thread here
To the Mods, who continue to say "Moderators are the same as members" So that means you are the same as us, Members."~KTL

I do think Nathalie have been invisible for as long as I remember :confused:

not more to add here yet. I will take more careful look when I have time. which is not now sinse I gotta work in 15 mins.

Aurelian

March 10th, 2006, 11:28 PM

With all due respect to Nuka and KTL, I took it upon myself to merge the "Moderator approval' thread and the "Repoting?" thread, as they had become to of the same conversation.

If either of the above mentioned people have a problem with this, drop me a PM, and I will un-merge them(Difficult and time consuming, but possible).

Utora

March 10th, 2006, 11:31 PM

I think the merging was wise. I almost became confused and felt I as posting the same discussion in both topics. Danke Roquits.

Sombolia

March 11th, 2006, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Sonkakee
... And my common sense tells me that you'll have to get over it, because that's the way it is....

It's the way things are, but it's not the way they should be. I, too, think it's unfair that mods continue to post in closed threads--as they are, infact, closed.

Was that not.. Harassment to the christian belief?

Perhaps, but certainly not reportable, as Neph wasn't insulting anyone on the forum.

It is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for the mods to have to watch over EVERY single topic and thread.

Just like it is IMPOSSIBLE and WRONG for every city to have police. Uh, no. That's their job, their duty as mods.

Also I've noticed a high number of mods, and even our own admin Nathalie, going invisible. Why that sudden change? In this thread here
To the Mods, who continue to say "Moderators are the same as members" So that means you are the same as us, Members

Members can go invisible, too.

Vidan

March 11th, 2006, 12:24 AM

Just to let you guys know I have been following this thread. Hard to respond to each individual point, as there's been so much back and forth.

I'll reiterate some things I posted just now in the moderator forum:

1) We have a good deal of very intelligent members who are opinionated and strong-willed. The type of people who would make good CEO's of companies, or future politicians, or leaders of non-profit organizations. The type of people who have good ideas and will work hard to set them in motion. A greater percentage, I believe, than any other forum I go to regularly.

There's a bit of inevitability, given this, that there will be a butting of heads over certain issues, but I'd hope that we (that includes the moderators) can use our collective energies to keep things in balance, recognize differeing opinions are a condition of our strength and diversity and not an attempt to disturb the peace of the forum.

As moderators, we'll give it our all to recognize this strength and diversity and not sweep it under the rug.

2) I've always been of the opinion that a certain amount of interpersonal conflict cannot be avoided but that people can and will resolve the situation amongst themselves if they have the capacity at the time to be reasonable. Of course, I will step in if something has gone too far and it seems that those involved in an argument are letting their emotions get the best of them.

I see a moderator as a third party giving someone, or more than one person, a "reality check," that is, letting them know if something is getting out of hand, just in case they've been blinded a bit by the emotions and energy of a conversation, or perhaps started to take something personally without realizing it, which happens. This allows the member(s) to take a step back and look at how they're conducting themselves on the forum, thereby empowering them to use their own good judgement to take a more reasonable approach to a situation.

When you think about it, there are very few members here who may have been out of favor with the members of the forum (again, moderators included) who haven't recognized, sometimes by themselves, and sometimes with a little moderator support, that they were taking things too far.

In other words, members who go too far are usually not themselves at that time and just need all of our support to return to a sense of normalcy. It's because we care about people that we (moderators and members) will let someone know if they've crossed the line.

Those who have been banned in the past have been, for the most part, people who either never gained our trust and respect from the beginning or, for some reason, made some sort of conscious decision to cause grief to other members without regard to the consequences.

What I'm trying to get at here is that, as much as occassionally we may fight amongst ourselves, we still care about each other, and it's important to remember that. Also,

a) If a moderator may occassionally seem overbearing, then it's because they are concerned. If they start going on a power trip, then that's a behavior that needs to change, and I think we rarely succumb to that. The ideal is, of course, for it never to happen.

b) If a member seems to suddenly change their behavior and start lashing out at other members, there's probably a reason, and it might not necessarily have to do with you. Take a step back before you lash out at them, lest a flame war start.

If the behavior continues, expect the moderators to step in. Let us know, of course, but expect that if the member in question admits they were not themselves or expresses regret for their recent behavior, that we will show forgiveness, and you should consider doing the same.

There may be situations in which a member has wronged you to the point where you can't forgive them, but for the sake of all of us, keep grudges off the forum, and avoid talking to them if you know it would cause a disruption to the forum.

That's really the heart of the matter. It's the power trips and flames that have caused so much turmoil in the past week. Since we're all members, it's something we need to be aware of and work on.

Juniper

March 11th, 2006, 12:24 AM

Okay... so, anyone that's bickering: Shut up.

*cracks neck* Thanks. Now why do you guys continue to bicker when both sides have given what they don't like, what they want, and what they'll give in return? Look, you guys are going back and forth like Isreal and Palestine right now, and you're acting like just as big of politicians. I don't get it, you have this chance right now, right in front of you, to reach a compromise that's mutually beneficial, but I'm beginning to think you don't want a solution, you want to be right. It does not matter if you think there's no problem, because there is; if you can read through this 400+ reply thread and tell me there's not a problem, then you're entitled to that and I'm entitled to question whether you actually read it. It does not matter who is more at fault or who's the better man, what matters is that both sides can get what they want. Now, damn it, I'm tired of this, and I'm tired of quite a few people here; you shape up now and start acting like the bright, kind people you are, or I'm getting the hell out of here because frankly, I don't want anything else to do with a forum that's unwilling to do anything but bicker. We've done a great job showing we can argue back and forth, get personal, try to one-up someone or everyone, deny our own problems, and twist and pervert someone's words to mean something else. This is how every single thread that has any promise at helping this forum goes, and I'm just sick and frigging tired of it.

So look, let's take a different approach: Who here is not willing to do anything but bicker? I'm serious, if you're only here to be a brute and are not looking to find an agreement to a problem that's plagued lea for at least four months now, say so. If you're only here to say you're right, or a group of people is right, and you're unwilling to admit your own faults or the faults of that group of people, and work on them, then say so. And look, if you feel that you've done nothing wrong in regards to bickering, and you can look back through this thread and still keep that mindset, then hey, you must not have done anything wrong in this thread and this just doesn't apply to you. So yeah, if you're only here to cause problems, let us know. If you're not, then quit bickering and fix the problem. Now.

And while you're at it, read vidan's post ^

Vidan

March 11th, 2006, 12:34 AM

Thanks, pnt. I can guess that everyone does want to try to come to some sort of resolution, but again we're letting our emotions get the better of us, or perhaps thinking that this has become a personal matter when really, it shouldn't be. Granted, there may have been a few mild personal attacks in this thread recently, but we ought to forgive them and get to the heart of the matter.

By the way, pnt, I forgot to mention that I read through your suggestions for improvement for moderators and members and agree with all the points you mentioned. That list will definitely help all of us maintain a level head, to give ourselves the sort of "reality check" I was talking about.

Utora

March 11th, 2006, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by Vidan
Just to let you guys know I have been following this thread. Hard to respond to each individual point, as there's been so much back and forth.

I'll reiterate some things I posted just now in the moderator forum:

1) We have a good deal of very intelligent members who are opinionated and strong-willed. The type of people who would make good CEO's of companies, or future politicians, or leaders of non-profit organizations. The type of people who have good ideas and will work hard to set them in motion. A greater percentage, I believe, than any other forum I go to regularly.

There's a bit of inevitability, given this, that there will be a butting of heads over certain issues, but I'd hope that we (that includes the moderators) can use our collective energies to keep things in balance, recognize differeing opinions are a condition of our strength and diversity and not an attempt to disturb the peace of the forum.

As moderators, we'll give it our all to recognize this strength and diversity and not sweep it under the rug.

2) I've always been of the opinion that a certain amount of interpersonal conflict cannot be avoided but that people can and will resolve the situation amongst themselves if they have the capacity at the time to be reasonable. Of course, I will step in if something has gone too far and it seems that those involved in an argument are letting their emotions get the best of them.

I see a moderator as a third party giving someone, or more than one person, a "reality check," that is, letting them know if something is getting out of hand, just in case they've been blinded a bit by the emotions and energy of a conversation, or perhaps started to take something personally without realizing it, which happens. This allows the member(s) to take a step back and look at how they're conducting themselves on the forum, thereby empowering them to use their own good judgement to take a more reasonable approach to a situation.

When you think about it, there are very few members here who may have been out of favor with the members of the forum (again, moderators included) who haven't recognized, sometimes by themselves, and sometimes with a little moderator support, that they were taking things too far.

In other words, members who go too far are usually not themselves at that time and just need all of our support to return to a sense of normalcy. It's because we care about people that we (moderators and members) will let someone know if they've crossed the line.

Those who have been banned in the past have been, for the most part, people who either never gained our trust and respect from the beginning or, for some reason, made some sort of conscious decision to cause grief to other members without regard to the consequences.

What I'm trying to get at here is that, as much as occassionally we may fight amongst ourselves, we still care about each other, and it's important to remember that. Also,

a) If a moderator may occassionally seem overbearing, then it's because they are concerned. If they start going on a power trip, then that's a behavior that needs to change, and I think we rarely succumb to that. The ideal is, of course, for it never to happen.

b) If a member seems to suddenly change their behavior and start lashing out at other members, there's probably a reason, and it might not necessarily have to do with you. Take a step back before you lash out at them, lest a flame war start.

If the behavior continues, expect the moderators to step in. Let us know, of course, but expect that if the member in question admits they were not themselves or expresses regret for their recent behavior, that we will show forgiveness, and you should consider doing the same.

There may be situations in which a member has wronged you to the point where you can't forgive them, but for the sake of all of us, keep grudges off the forum, and avoid talking to them if you know it would cause a disruption to the forum.

That's really the heart of the matter. It's the power trips and flames that have caused so much turmoil in the past week. Since we're all members, it's something we need to be aware of and work on.

Outstading interpertation : I'm impressed.

unregistered user

March 11th, 2006, 04:01 AM

Reaffirming Pnt's -- quality control methods... I'm agreeing to everything almost, but there's a couple of things I will not agree to... That is when a thread is closed, if I feel it is necessary to atone myself I will, but I will no longer make something out of my personal opinion anymore... Lastly about leniency on the rule-breaking, I think we've been lenient enough, but all in the same; we will help try and avert the warning(s) to the best of our abilities...

Thanks for your time....

-Sonique

Juniper

March 11th, 2006, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Sonkakee
Reaffirming Pnt's -- quality control methods... I'm agreeing to everything almost, but there's a couple of things I will not agree to... That is when a thread is closed, if I feel it is necessary to atone myself I will, but I will no longer make something out of my personal opinion anymore... Lastly about leniency on the rule-breaking, I think we've been lenient enough, but all in the same; we will help try and avert the warning(s) to the best of our abilities...

Thanks for your time....

-Sonique

If you will not agree to your part, I shall not agree to mine. That is how a compromise works. If a member is not able to "Atone" themselves after a thread is closed, then you should not be able to either; unless, of course, you hold yourself above the common forum user. I will not back down from this Sonique, I think there should be equal treatment amongst the users of this board, and not these little games being played when a thread is closed. I'm tired of it, bud, and this is not something I'm going to let go just like that. I'm perfectly willing to work with you to reach an agreement, but so far I have not seen a justification for your being able to post a personal remark, cute little comment, or opinion in a thread after it is closed; all I've seen is a "My way or the highway" attitude, that attitude is something I refuse to compromise with.

As for the leniency, I was not saying the rules should necessarily be less enforced, but that the moderating staff should show compassion and forgiveness in certain situations. If the staff is not willing to do this, then I think the members have no obligation to let the little things go with the staff either, but I think if we go down that road, we're just going to have an even worse place to post.

Kovu The Lion

March 11th, 2006, 04:59 AM

I'm not going to put a huge post backing up what I say anymore. But from reading sonique's post. And pnt's I agree with Pnt fully.

It doesnt take much to say "Ditto" or "me too" So why go into detail when all I can say is.

Agreed with Pnt.

~KTL

Sadiki

March 11th, 2006, 05:17 AM

Ok, I'm not going to say a thing on this thread anymore, just don't feel like it is worth it. It seriously seems that no matter what Pnt and KTL keep going on and on about the same stuff. And I really must say I seriously getting quite annoied the way you are trying to push your opinion about how the board should be, how does it make it any better if some disagree and some agree with you from the situation it is now? I think you two keep going on about this till everyone getting so annoied of you that you get banned or that the board gonna change the way you want it to be. As instance, bot of you would be allowing swearing on board, which will never and I mean NEVER will be allowed. I have asked that from Mufasa a few times and every time the answer have been that it's not allowed and if someone is swearing he/she should be warned and if more then 1 or to swear words appear in same post, the memeber should be banned right away. So don't even try to make swearing allowed here.

and what comes to your last statement Pnt about not agreeing yours just shows how stubborn you are about every single case on this board.

I didn't want it to go on this, but I can't stand either of you too anymore. Congratulations for being first people in 4 years who have gotten me really hate themself.

I seriously couldn't care less what happens to lea for now on.... *is off to another break*

Kovu The Lion

March 11th, 2006, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by SimbaTheMighty
Ok, I'm not going to say a thing on this thread anymore, just don't feel like it is worth it. It seriously seems that no matter what Pnt and KTL keep going on and on about the same stuff. And I really must say I seriously getting quite annoied the way you are trying to push your opinion about how the board should be, how does it make it any better if some disagree and some agree with you from the situation it is now? I think you two keep going on about this till everyone getting so annoied of you that you get banned or that the board gonna change the way you want it to be. As instance, bot of you would be allowing swearing on board, which will never and I mean NEVER will be allowed. I have asked that from Mufasa a few times and every time the answer have been that it's not allowed and if someone is swearing he/she should be warned and if more then 1 or to swear words appear in same post, the memeber should be banned right away. So don't even try to make swearing allowed here.

and what comes to your last statement Pnt about not agreeing yours just shows how stubborn you are about every single case on this board.

I didn't want it to go on this, but I can't stand either of you too anymore. Congratulations for being first people in 4 years who have gotten me really hate themself.

I seriously couldn't care less what happens to lea for now on.... *is off to another break*

I am honored to be on you're hate list STM : ) I'm glad that you finally put me on it.

I think you two keep going on about this till everyone getting so annoied of you that you get banned or that the board gonna change the way you want it to be.

We havn't and never said we wanted swearing to be on this boards. IF it was an example it was a pretty bad one. And you know what STM. You threw it out on me, so Revenge can hurt so meh, If I get banned for trying to change Lea into something better. It shows how great the Moderation Staff really is :D

~KTL

EDIT: By the way, No one asked you to post here, no one asked you to read this thread, no one asked you to do anything here. So you got annoyed thanks to yourself. Not us. Because it wasn't required of you to read this thread according to you, its not you're job to read every thread here, so why read this one. So meh you got yourself annoyed. On you're own time, and for you're own reasons. Not because of us. This thread may have changed Lea's outlook upon me. But when the time comes, and you grow up about this. (Possibly I need to also but I don't really care) You will thank the efforts. Right now I'm probably looked at as the most stubborn and unpopular guy now thanks to this thread. But as of now. I could care less about what people think of me.

EDIT 2: And look at STM's post Lea. "I could really care less about what happens to lea right now.." Ha, How great are you're mods now(This could be considered an attack. But meh its needed) Seems we have one mod that could care less about the opinions, the topics, and the people of Lea, Since he said Lea itself. Meaning everything that is Lea. STM No offense. But no moderator should say that, even if they are annoyed or ticked off. And once again it shows how immature some people are about some topics.(GO ahead and I say I am also, cause I know I am. I'm being immature for a reason, and for a pretty dang good purpose) But I for one. really wouldn't want a Moderator that didn't care about what he was doing.

Vidan

March 11th, 2006, 07:46 AM

I must say I'm disappointed, after my impassioned plea for everyone to stop taking things so personally and refocus on the bigger picture that we're still being defensive, still being negative, still acting like we have something to prove. I'm not singling out anyone here. I could, but it's not necessary. It seems to be coming from all sides of the conversation, to a varying extent, from different people, moderators and members alike.

Echoing what I said in my post earlier today, I will ask:

Are we all in the right state of mind to be having this conversation?

Are we letting emotions get the best of us?

I'm sorry to have to point this out, but If we start feeling like our personal reputation is at stake, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy:

- We become defensive about what we might see as a personal attack and we end up actually making one ourselves.

- We think that somebody's trying to discredit us when they are simply making a suggestion or generalized observation, and we end up trying our hardest to discredit them in turn.

- We see a threat where there is only opinion and we lash out at others, making them feel threatened.

This is a discussion about the broader topic of moderation as a topic and the standards we'd hope to see on this board, not a sparring contest to see who has the strongest will or determination to uphold their personal views. Nobody will win. There is no high score to be had, nor will there be a prize.

To everyone: think about what you're saying to each other. Think about other members who may be too new or don't log in often enough to have something to contribute to this conversation, or others who simply expect that this forum will conduct itself in a friendly manner without feeling the need to get involved in this discussion. Are they getting something out of this or are they feeling only negativity?

What if the trust and respect amongst each other that we're trying to achieve is being undermined by the very thread that concerns achieving this goal?

As a moderator, I care about everyone in this forum. I care about all the members, and the other moderators. That's why I offer this little "reality check".

Somehow it's allowed me to see the situation for what it is, to not blow up, not threaten to quit or become apathetic. Maybe it will work for you.

lion_roog

March 11th, 2006, 07:51 AM

After reading through all of this, all i have to say is that Pnt and Vidan have brought some pretty good ideas to the table, both to help the situation and to help make sure we handle the situation maturely. Other than that, I have seen what seems to me is defensiveness to criticism and some bruised egos.

Tiikeri

March 11th, 2006, 08:57 AM

Juniper

March 11th, 2006, 11:18 AM

You know what? You guys win, you all win. I'm sorry I brought this up and I have nothing else to say to the whole lot of you. I did try to help though, and I didn't accuse either group of any more wrongdoing than the other. I didn't say anyone was a bad person, and I tried to keep this from being personal. But you guys ****ed me over, and it is personal now.

Vidan

March 11th, 2006, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Kovu The Lion
Can I ask of something?

I don't see this happenign, but when you are reported, and you don't know it. It gets kinda aggrivating, perhaps send a private message to the person who was reported saying no action was taken at least?

I didn't see this until now.

How would you get aggravated about being reported if you didn't know someone reported you?

If you think about it, if your post gets reported, one of two things will happen: either you'll be giving a warning, or you won't.

Warnings, theoretically, will add up and result in a ban if they become excessive over a good period of time. If you begin to consistently follow the rules then the slate is wiped clean, as far as I'm concerned.

But, if there isn't a rule broken in a reported post, then there will be no warning, and having a reported post doesn't count against you in any way.

So, it wouldn't strike me as necessary, unless there's a reason I didn't think of.

ChildOfThePride

March 11th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Jeez, can't we stop with all the drama?

Maybe this forum needs to be temporarily shut down...You all are acting like children, honestly.

W-Eyed-Wanderer

March 11th, 2006, 11:34 AM

And so the destruction of Lea continues...

Personally I think both members and mods are equally responsible for this....I'm not generalising but I'm not naming names either. I think the time has come to just call halt to all these personal battles and start again.

If we can highlight 2 or 3 problems that the majority of members want changed and execute without fuss or complaint from any of the mods then perhaps we can rise out of this mess that Lea has got itself into. If we ever need the mods to act responsibly and put their personal feelings aside then this is it; I'm not saying the mods are at fault but they are there to be calm and try to control the system. The regular members have to concentrate on isolating a few things that they believe to be causes of the problems and state them clearly.

I also believe it should be put to a vote on what changes are made, and if the members choose something that the mods disagree with then...well, tough. At the end of the day it's the members that make this forum.

Personally, the change I would like to see brought in is to reduce the number of mods by half. With fewer authority figures members will feel that they have a lot more freedom to post their thoughts and opinions. Even removing a couple of mods would help ease this situation...if you give people responsibility they will act as such, if you treat people like kids then they will also act that way. Give us some responsibility!

I also feel a rule that needs to be brought in is that mods cannot post on closed threads unless they are contributing the exact reason for the closure and nothing more.

lion_roog

March 11th, 2006, 11:39 AM

Arn't ther eonly about 6 mods..maybe 10 at the most, and they all don't moderate the same areas....I never felt that there were too many Mods, but that's just me.

Vidan

March 11th, 2006, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by W-Eyed-Wanderer

(1)
If we can highlight 2 or 3 problems that the majority of members want changed and execute without fuss or complaint from any of the mods then perhaps we can rise out of this mess that Lea has got itself into. If we ever need the mods to act responsibly and put their personal feelings aside then this is it; I'm not saying the mods are at fault but they are there to be calm and try to control the system. The regular members have to concentrate on isolating a few things that they believe to be causes of the problems and state them clearly.

(2)
I also believe it should be put to a vote on what changes are made, and if the members choose something that the mods disagree with then...well, tough. At the end of the day it's the members that make this forum.

(3)
Personally, the change I would like to see brought in is to reduce the number of mods by half. With fewer authority figures members will feel that they have a lot more freedom to post their thoughts and opinions. Even removing a couple of mods would help ease this situation...if you give people responsibility they will act as such, if you treat people like kids then they will also act that way. Give us some responsibility!

(4)
I also feel a rule that needs to be brought in is that mods cannot post on closed threads unless they are contributing the exact reason for the closure and nothing more.

(1) I agree with your first point. It's hard to decipher exactly what the specific issues are at hand with all the negativity being tossed about.

(2) That's how I'd prefer to do it too, but the job of making and changing the rules is squarely on the shoulders of Mufasa, the owner of the forum.

We wanted to have a vote about an issue brought earlier in this thread (actually a month or two ago), specifically, swearing. Prior to the poll even going up the members and moderators sort of collectively decided that changing the existing rules wouldn't be necessary, particularly since it is ultimately Mufasa's decision about how the issue of swearing is to be handled.

So, if we wanted to have another vote, we would have to obtain Mufasa's consent to follow the terms of whatever the result of the poll is. He may be open to it, or he may not. I admit I don't know him well enough to know what the answer would be.

(3) I probably could have answered this question yesterday, but now I'm not sure what to tell you there. The number of active mods isn't necessarily excessive but there are issues that need to be ironed out. And, I'm certainly encouraged that you feel comfortable expressing your opinion. Not sure about others, but I'd never want to keep you from expressing your ideas unless you were deliberately causing grief to another member of the forum, or exceeding an acceptable standard of decency.

(4) I haven't really stated my opinion on this yet. I agree that it's not necessary to tack a "And the moral of the story is ..." post, and especially not more than one, to the end of a thread, and I don't believe I've ever made a post like that. I guess I've been oblivious to it being a problem to some, but what a few members have said about the subject does make sense.

Originally posted by pntbll248
You know what? You guys win, you all win. I'm sorry I brought this up and I have nothing else to say to the whole lot of you. I did try to help though, and I didn't accuse either group of any more wrongdoing than the other. I didn't say anyone was a bad person, and I tried to keep this from being personal. But you guys ****ed me over, and it is personal now.

I can see why you would come to that conclusion. Honestly if I were you I'd feel the same way. I'm sorry you have picked up so much flack from others and I wouldn't have anything to say in their defence.

I think those who are taking this out of proportion know who they are.

Notice I'm trying to avoid finger-pointing (though it's very tempting) since I seem to be treading on a thin ice wedged between the two (or more?) sides of this discussion. I do have some strong opinions on this matter and could easily respond to some individual attacks (upon others, not me) that have been made, but I don't exactly want to crack and become a hero to some and an enemy to others, just try to calm everyone down a little bit, since, as I said, this shouldn't be a sparring match.

I want to be on everyone's side, I really do, but frankly at the moment I'm not sure where I stand.

To everyone:

If this discussion starts spiraling down farther than it already has then I will follow my principles and start defending those who are being unfairly criticized, on a case by case basis. I'd like to continue to be diplomatic about the situation, but it's becoming difficult. Please help me out a little.

Katse

March 11th, 2006, 04:10 PM

*sigh*

It's things like this that make me normally stay out of such touchy subjects and remain in the RPing areas of forums. I come to Lea and other TLK places to get away from the hustle and bustle of reality and spend time talking with friends that have similar interests to me and won't look at me like I'm a freak when I tell them. To see people who I thought were friends and fellow fans bicker about this like children is what saddens me and what makes me confine myself to the imaginary world of RP.

What I'd like to throw out onto the floor first is that people say things that they don't normally mean when they're angry. At the time that they're enraged, they may say that they mean it, but they look back on it later and see that they really didn't. It's proves to be more difficult when one is online because everything is in writing and we don't have faces or voice tones to confirm if the person means what they're saying or not. This normally results in one or more people getting offended and it brakes out to be something personal, like what's happened to this and many other threads.

Also, all I saw before the hate and drama were suggestions. There were posts that were opinions, but advice at the same time for making the forums a more enjoyable place. This being the internet, of course things are being misinterpreted, so some people take it as the suggestion giver shoving their opinions down the other peoples' throats. This is what that thread has led to. Most have ignored the fact of compromise and learning for the sake of trying to prove yourself better than the other. It's to the point where people don't want to accept those suggestions anymore for fear of looking "weak" by giving in to reason.

I'm not very good at putting my own feelings about things in writing, but I hoped that shown a little light to people on the human emotion.

Now, as for the condition of Lea. Because I play the ignorance card here and don't talk much outside of the RP boards, I haven't much else to say. What I stated above seems to be the only problem I've seen: misunderstanding.

And if anyone's offended, somehow, by what I've said, I apologize in advance. I'm only saying what I've seen.

Juniper

March 12th, 2006, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Vidan
Please help me out a little.

I know how you feel, trying to help and feeling like you're the only one who wants order, and only because of that, I'll re-enter this issue. However, I have something to say in my defense.

I tried to stick to my personal values of respect, maturity, and compromise throughout all of this; and I am determined to continue to do so. With that fact stated, I have taken insults, bullying, and general disrespect over this; from the people, lea, who I have tried to help. I am not some emotional punching bag, the things that were said to me were very hurtful, and I will not tolerate them again. If you have something to say to me, which I'm aware some people do, then make a thread about it and let's call a spade a spade, but do not hamper this thread, and any possible solution, with personal attacks.

With that aside, my points I made still stand. I see a compromise as the only possible solution. No one side is right, and no one side is wrong, but both sides will have to work together to solve this. There does not need to be any rule made or person removed from this board, there just needs to be an agreement to work together. That may not be possible, I really don't know, but that's no reason to give up. I haven't seen any other solution that would benefit everyone at least a bit other than a compromise; does anyone have one? If not, then lets continue along the path of compromise to reach a common goal of order and unity.

Vidan

March 12th, 2006, 04:56 AM

If we're looking for a compromise, I think pnt's suggested guidelines are very fair, and I would encourage all of us to consider putting them in motion.

I'll share my opinion on each.

Originally posted by pntbll248
Moderators -- Are you willing to:

1. Respect the concerns of the forum members and try to work with us to come to a solution. Likewise, don't argue with eachother forever and eventually not do anything.

There have been issues with us not being entirely on the same page about certain things, and that's something we need to work on. The opinion of members on how to handle a situation is very important because we, as moderators, can't act in a vacuum. It's good to be aware of different sides of an issue before taking a serious action that could be seen in a bad light by certain people, or a very decisive, final action like banning a member. We can't please everyone but it's important that we at least listen to members to make the best decision possible. And I think that decision will become clear once these factors are taken into account, and we can take an action without being divided.

2. Not use personal grudge or emotion in making a moderating decision. Use reason and a level-head when dealing with a possible rule infraction.

That's important. We as moderators need draw a line between personal views/issues and the rules.

3. Allow the members a decent chance to solve their own issues and respect that everyone on this board is capable of coming to an agreement on his/her own ability. Realize that we are all human, and we are all capable as human beings of both making mistakes, and correcting them therein.

I've seen this happen quite often, that what might appear to be the beginnings of a flame war dies out quickly because one or more members realize they were overstepping their bounds, and apologize, or take the appropriate action to right the situation. We as moderators ought to let that happen. We ought to just let a member or members know that we are concerned and don't want the situation to turn ugly. Only if things truly get out of hand should we step in and try to resolve the situation ourselves. I don't think a short back and forth exchange merits a warning or for a member to be ejected from a thread.

4. Not close a thread and then add a personal remark, reply to another board user, add your own opinion, or otherwise say something that would normally be replied to. Likewise, not post such things after a thread is closed.

I agree. I can't see that any situations where it would be appropriate to make another post after the one made by the mod who closed a thread, or for the mod to issue warnings to members without their being able to respond. A simple "Thread closed because the original question has been answered" or just the bare minimum reason should be enough.

5. Respect that you are not our mommies and daddies and it is not our obligation to obey the mods, only to obey the rules.

Well, if a mod is trying to keep the peace and instructing you to do something, then it should be because there is an action or behavior that goes against the Pride Rules.

And to anyone reading this, I wouldn't interpret that as "We have no obligation to obey the mods", just that as a member, you aren't responding to a moderator's suggestion or action because they are moderators and "they are in power" but because they have outlined to you specifically how a certain behavior or action goes against the Pride Rules.

6. In no way otherwise abuse the power you have as a moderator or use it in a way that is sarcastic, personal, or out-of-proportion to the issue at hand.

I agree. I'm not sure I need to add anything to this.

7. Be forgiving in certain situations, even in rule infractions. The purpose of a "Warning" is not to bring a person closer to banning, but to help them avert such a action being taken.

Definitely agreed. I can remember several different times where a member has misrepresented themselves, gone on a personal crusade, or just outright started disregarding the rules, but changed their behavior after it being pointed out to them, or on their own after they saw its effect on the forum. And, occassionally, people can be not in the right state of mind because of some issue going on in their personal lives that they may not want to talk about.

It's important to separate these instances from people who come here simply to cause a problem, or people who for some reason decide that they don't want to follow the rules any more, and continue to behave that way after a long period of time and multiple warnings.

And, we ought to be able to wipe the slate clean after a certain period of time.

8. Realize that you are able to have this forum continue like clockwork given less-than-perfect conditions, such as the absence of an administrator (or other moderator) or other situations. Finally, you do not need to run everything by Mufasa.

We should be able to do this, by taking all the other suggestions above into consideration. And no, we shouldn't have to run everything by Mufasa. Of course, if there is something that we aren't sure about, then we will consult him, because the rules are his, not ours, to decide.

Part 2, coming soon.

Vidan

March 12th, 2006, 05:24 AM

Members -- Are you willing to:

1. Realize that the mods as a whole mean well for the forum.

2. Realize that the mods are also human and just as capable of mistakes.

3. Be forgiving when a moderator does something wrong (but not outrageous), as the moderators will be equally forgiving when a member does something wrong (but not outrageous).

We do mean well. I can say I definitely believe that 99.9% (or probably more) of moderator actions thus far were taken with the wellbeing of the forum in mind. Maybe we have occassionally let something cloud our judgement so that the less than ideal action was taken, and that's something that can be worked on, but whatever was done was with the forum in mind. And as Roquivo as said, if a moderator does something you are concerned about, let them know. Perhaps it's simply a case of there being something they weren't aware of, and they will be likely to reverse a course of action if it was a legitimate concern and they have the right information available to them.

4. Realize that the moderators are trying very hard to provide a good posting environment for all the users of this board to post in. Likewise, if they are constantly told they're doing badly, that's going to hurt them like it would any other person.

We've seen that already, in this thread. None of us have a will of steel. I'm always encouraged to see ways in which we could make the forum better but don't point out every little thing that annoys you about one or more moderators activity in the public forum. That is, if you have a concern, let the moderators know directly through PM. Just the same, we will not get on your case about every little thing either, and if there's something that's a recurring problem, we will be likely to keep it to PM's, because, quite frankly, if you're doing something other members don't appreciate, they will let you know as well.

5. Be willing to take care of your own posts, as the job of keeping order does not rest solely on the staff. This includes taking your personal issues to a private means should you feel the need to argue about something in a way that would be breaking a forum rule. Keep in mind that that harrassment through PM is just as bad, if not worse, as harrassment in a thread or post.

Yes, I would expect that people try to iron out their personal issues via PM. If these are issues that cannot be resolved by PM alone, I hope that either you step away from the situation and ignore the other member, take the issue outside the forum, or come to a moderator for help. All different approaches to the situation, and all equally valid. Whatever you're comfortable with.

6. Be willing to bring up a concern in a mature and polite way, instead of throwing insults or otherwise acting inappropriately.

Very simple. If you have a differing opinion or have a concern about what somebody's doing, tell them "maturely and politely" will be far more likely to actually work than inflaming the situation.

7. Be willing to not hold grudges either, as the moderators will be returning the favor.

That's true. We might not necessarily hold a grudge against you because you hold a grudge against me, but it makes it difficult to do our job or communicate on a member to member level.

8. Be willing to give the staff the same respect you yourself would expect to be given.

I respect you (I really do, all of you) and would expect a minimum level of respect in return.

9. Be willing to use that decent chance to resolve your issues with someone before a thread is closed.

Yes, do your fellow members a favor and if you find yourself getting into a heated situation with another member in a thread, take a deep breath and try to resolve it in a friendly manner. If it comes down to saying, "Let's agree to disagree, or at least not have this argument further. I don't want this thread to be closed." then say it. You will command more respect for just calming down and not giving in to making personal attacks or feeling like your personal reputation will be shattered if you do not defend yourself against every point somebody else is making.

Honestly, I can't think of anything else to add. I've seen some people respond to individual points in pnt's post, but what do we think about it as a whole? I am 100% behind it. Moderators, I hope you'll consider my views on these points.