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TheUnknownSoul
November 24th, 2005, 11:44 PM
anything. Be it deleted scenes you know of, or just something you wish they showed

for me..

TLK - They cut one of Scars songs, I wish they'd kept it. He originally sang again after mufasa's death (I have the animated story board if anyone wishes to see)

Sarabi's lullaby :browlift: wish they'd kept that

Other cubs being in the pridelands in general XD instead of just 2

TLK2 - The never ending question...whos kovu and vitani's father

Singing cub Kovu :D

a better ending x_x (I like the alternate ending someone else posted)

Kiara and Kovu getting to know each other more than one day before falling in loooove

Im braindead, forgive XD Im full of fooooood

Ralli
November 25th, 2005, 12:37 AM
Actually, Scar does a little rendition of Be Prepared after he gives his 'eulegy' (sp?) in the Broadway show and tour- or he did when I last saw it. Quite a pleasant surprise for me, too, since I had wished for it to be in the movie.


What I would like...well, the number one thing, out of any of the movies, is this:


Better character designs in SP. Simba and Nala looking more like they had in the original, though a little aged by the time Kiara was an adolescent/adult. Simba looks much older at the beginning of SP than he had been at the end of TLK, when the sequel was supposed to take place right where TLK ended. I like how he gained some bulk and seemed to be the same age as his father in SP, but he shouldn't have aged SO quickly. Not to mention poor Nala, looking nothing like herself. And then there is, obviously, Kiara. Had they slapped some 'Simba rings' on her ears and tweaked her colours, she could've passed off as the cub at the end of the movie. Following up is Kovu. He's supposed to not be the son of Scar, but he still looks a bit like him... And don't forget Vitani's magical mutation. AND of course Timon and Pumbaa, who are horribly animated and tweaked for the worse.


Then I'd like for SP better humour and the total disappearance of Timon's "beeper" line. I'd also love the background Pridelander lionesses to look unique from one another, like they occasionally did in the original, and like the Outlanders. And finally, I would die happy if they had filled in the many plot holes.


For HM, I wish they had been more unique in the storyline. As much as I prefer this movie over SP, and how a few parody scenes can be funny, I'd like more originality (though since when were Timon and Pumbaa original? ;) ). Them poking fun at the stampede scene, after thinking about it, was a really bad move...though I think the slow motion falling and yelling was funny... The 'Mystery Science Theatre' thing they have going doesn't really bother me, since the two really do double as the comic reliefs. Wish they hadn't had some plotholes, too- there were several during the battle scene that...REALLY weren't funny when they were supposed to be. And I wish Timon and Pumbaa hadn't gone back to the jungle and drag the colony with them...I like thinking they would be with Simba and the pride...


And about the original. Hrm. Sarabi's lullaby would have been really nice, and Timon's verse in Hakuna Matata, but besides that, I can't think of anything right now...

va-kasi
November 25th, 2005, 12:47 AM
For SP I would have loved cub Nuka :cheese:

Thats about all I can think of... and a better ending as you said, maybe not a different one- just pulled off better and less cheesy :vitsm:

Azerane
November 25th, 2005, 03:12 AM
I think it would've been nice to have a scene in TLK where Simba, Nala, Sarabi, Sarafina and Mufasa are together, enjoying a walk in the pridelands or something. Not that that's really a necessary scene, would've been nice to see though.

Another one I wouldn't mind, is before Nala leaves the pridelands, to see them in ruin from the lioness's perspective, and see their dislike of the situation and how hungry they are, instead of just that one scene with scar and the hyenas. Or there could've been a bit where Sarabi is talking with the other lioness about whether Nala will return and then Scar calls her up, and that's when Simba returns and all that.

That's all I could think of right now, I'm sure there's been some other things. But really, I'm happy with TLK just the way it is, I love it like it is.

Simbaspirit
November 25th, 2005, 05:02 AM
whats this about "sarabis lullaby?":confused:

lion_roog
November 25th, 2005, 05:24 AM
Man, more deleted scenes would so turn me on...:D

Ralli
November 25th, 2005, 01:56 PM
Whoo, remembered something last night.


I think, instead of the Morning Report, they should have animated Shadowland in TLK. Then again, one of the cool things about seeing TLK for the first time is that you don't expect Nala to pop up in the jungle, and you don't know why she's there until she says so. But Shadowland is really moving, isn't it? Or The Madness of King Scar. That could quite easily be tweaked to fit into the movie.


Actually, I think it would've been great had they had other scenes from the Broadway show in the movie. For the show, they were necessary- give people time to set up things and stuff- but they wouldn't really be needed, but they'd be...eh...frills? They'd fit and just add something extra enjoyable, if it is pulled off well. Then again, those snippets in the show were pleasant surprises, and probably one of the things that make it seem like a new experience, even if you had seen TLK a million times before...

KanuTGL
November 25th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by TheUnknownSoul
anything. Be it deleted scenes you know of, or just something you wish they showed

for me..

TLK - They cut one of Scars songs, I wish they'd kept it. He originally sang again after mufasa's death (I have the animated story board if anyone wishes to see)

Sarabi's lullaby :browlift: wish they'd kept that

Other cubs being in the pridelands in general XD instead of just 2

TLK2 - The never ending question...whos kovu and vitani's father

Singing cub Kovu :D

a better ending x_x (I like the alternate ending someone else posted)

Kiara and Kovu getting to know each other more than one day before falling in loooove

... where can I find out more about the deleted scenes? I'd love to see some concept from Sarabi's lullaby :-)

Now for some comments about your ideas :lol:

1. Maybe, maybe not. As he has already sung once... and I guess they though that was enough for Scar...

2. Sarabi's lullaby I don't know much about, but I would really have liked to see her singing... :browlift:

3. Yeah, seeing Chumvi and Kula animated would be soooo awesome! But, I think they didn't include any more cubs because that would've been too complicated as Disney says. Too many characters to keep track on... :disagree:

4. Yeah! Who wouldn't have loved to see that ;)

5. :D

6. Another good idea, definetely...

7. Oh yes....:huh:

LunarCat
November 25th, 2005, 03:46 PM
definitely wish Sarabi's Lullaby was in it, same with Shadowland on the SE.

I think they should have left in that deleted scene with Kovu and the bug in SP. would possibly have filled some holes.

TheUnknownSoul
November 25th, 2005, 04:08 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/TheUnknownSoul/PreliminaryDesignsEarlyConcepts0001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/TheUnknownSoul/PreliminaryDesignsEarlyConcepts0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/TheUnknownSoul/PreliminaryDesignsEarlyConcepts0004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/TheUnknownSoul/PreliminaryDesignsEarlyConcepts0006.jpg

Ralli
November 25th, 2005, 07:40 PM
Hopefully this'll be my last one...if I should, I'll edit this into my last or first comment. :hehe:


But...if they did only ONE thing to change SP...I hope it would be the total removal of "Upendi". :evilgrin:

lion_roog
November 25th, 2005, 09:55 PM
What?..Upendi kicks ***....Lion King on Acid...:D

Prince_Kivoru
November 26th, 2005, 08:40 PM
there's only one thing I wish that was in the movie....My Voice!! I love to watch the voice actors in action on the extra features and I really want to be one.

KanuTGL
November 26th, 2005, 09:43 PM
You too, Kivo? :lol:

I also really wanna be a voice actor... I've sent an audition for a quite big studio, but I've heard no reply from them yet, so I suppose my voice is no good... *sigh* :p

Daniel
November 26th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by KanuTGL
I also really wanna be a voice actor... I've sent an audition for a quite big studio, but I've heard no reply from them yet, so I suppose my voice is no good... *sigh* :p

now saying that has got me interested in what your voice is like now :p

SimbaGirl
November 26th, 2005, 10:45 PM
Well, I wouldn't want to change it now. For sentimental reasons. XD And I really do think it's perfect the way it is. :3

But I agree, seeing more cubs than Simba and Nala would have been really neat. (Perhaps the two mentioned in Nala's Dare.)

And Sarabi's lulaby, yeah! =D

I've always thought more son-to-mother time would be sweet, but, after all, TLK is basically the love story of a father and son. So I understand why that may have been edited out.



(Yeah, hi, btw x3;, I'm prowling through as the monthly death of lilymud has drove me to extreme boredom. :hakuna:)

ChildOfThePride
November 27th, 2005, 01:50 PM
Let's see...what would I change?

-Kiara to Kopa. >.> I LOATHE Kiara.

-OMG. SP characterization = BACKWARDS.

-In TLK, I would have probably added Scar's song (It kicks butt, does anyone know who's doing the song? Is it Jeremy Irons? I can't tell)

-More Sarabi scenes!

-Also (most of you are going to kill me for this), change the Circle of Life scene. I would have made it so they used the original opening (you can find it somewhere, I THINK in the Burbank or Glendale part of North America) when TLK was still called King of the Jungle. I think COL would have fit better if James Earl Jones sang it during the 'we are all connected' talk.

Tokalas
November 27th, 2005, 05:32 PM
I would like to see the little bat ear fox in the movie.

chaotic serenit
November 27th, 2005, 11:26 PM
Just a few comments on what's already been said:


The never ending question...whos kovu and vitani's father

And are Kovu and Vitani siblings? It's obvious who Nuka's father is, but is Vitani also Scar's daughter, or is she fathered by the same character who sired Kovu? Is Zira even Kovu's real mother? As much as he does look like Scar, I can see where Kovu isn't his son - he's far more robustly built and really doesn't have much of the same facial features.

Keep in mind, though, that this is *not* a plot hole. I see that term thrown around way too much. A plot hole is a jump in logic regarding the rational progression of a story. This is just confusing, but ultimately does not destroy the storyline of SP. Even if he is not Scar's biological son, the fact that Kovu is a rival male trained by Zira and chosen by Scar to usurp him should be enough to get Simba's hackles raised.

A possible plothole would be if the cub seen at the end of TLK was *officially* made male. But this never happened. It was only subnotes in the script, something that the vast majority of moviewaters don't bother to take a look at. The differences in the cub's appearance is explained away as an art change (not to mention an issue with lighting, as well).



Kiara and Kovu getting to know each other more than one day before falling in loooove

I don't think it's just "one day," though. I always thought it was insinuated that at least a little bit of time had passed by in between cut scenes. "Upendi" was just the "awakening" of sorts. Though, admittedly, SP is based mostly off of Romeo and Juliet, in which the characters fall in love within an hour. Kiara and Kovu at least have the precedent of having befriended one another beforehand.

And just to be fair, Simba and Nala aren't much different. They did have a better setup as best friends during childhood, but it didn't take long for those feelings to mature when they met as adults. (Simba has the best "OMG GIRL (http://www.lionking.org/~nalanon/necknuzz.jpg)" look out of any characters I've seen from Disney.) Part of the idea of the romance with Kiara and Kovu is that Kiara is completely, shockingly different from *anyone* he's ever met before, so his interest is hooked almost immediately. Not that I'm defending this, but brief romances that are meant to last a lifetime are standard fare in most movie. You'd be hard pressed to find a long-term, well-developed one in any Hollywood or Disney film.



I think, instead of the Morning Report, they should have animated Shadowland in TLK. Then again, one of the cool things about seeing TLK for the first time is that you don't expect Nala to pop up in the jungle, and you don't know why she's there until she says so. But Shadowland is really moving, isn't it? Or The Madness of King Scar. That could quite easily be tweaked to fit into the movie.

I agree. "Shadowlands" does alot to flesh out Nala's character without adding much time to a movie. The scene with Zazu and Scar does *alot* to develop how things have been going under Scar's rule, don't get me wrong, but it focuses mainly on, well, Scar. Adding in TMoKS not only keeps in that feelings, but it gives Scar more background for his villainy, and it would give us a transitional device to head into "Shadowlands." Even more interesting, it gives Nala a *personal* motivation for leaving the Pridelands, in addition to a noble desire to save others. And it really emphasizes her heroic nature in general. I've heard alot of people argue that the one thing they *don't* like about TLK is how Nala doesn't get the screentime she deserve for the important role she plays in sparking events into motion, and this is something that could easily fix it. The only problem with adding this in, like someone else mentioned, is that it ruins the big surprise when Nala appears in the jungle. (Not that we couldn't figure it out when we first saw her.)

Additionally, could we, like, actually get some realistic depictions of the lionesses? The Pridelands are a mess and everyone's starving - by all rights, Nala should *not* be that filled out, nor should Sarabi or any of the others. They managed to do with Simba, making him more slender and compact than his father because of his diet, but why couldn't they have done it with the lionesses?




Also (most of you are going to kill me for this), change the Circle of Life scene. I would have made it so they used the original opening (you can find it somewhere, I THINK in the Burbank or Glendale part of North America) when TLK was still called King of the Jungle. I think COL would have fit better if James Earl Jones sang it during the 'we are all connected' talk.

I think the opening is actually the best - we're talking a dramatic scene that drags people in, and COL is a powerful song. Placing it in a scene with Mufasa and Simba, where the focus is *father and son* would ruin the effect. We'd get distracted from the individual development and get swept up in the overall encompassing theme of the song, which is the interconnectedness of everything. Now, true, you could swing it to have that theme of connection to extend to father and son, bu it's much easier to use that on a microcosmic level the way it is in the movie.

Well, that, and from what I've read in interviews, part of the reason JEJ's song was cut is because he was a good speaking voice. Emphasis on *speaking* voice. :)

Anyway...

The Lion King:

I like Sarabi's lullaby, though I'm not sure how they would fit that in. [Actually, I'm a bit surprised they didn't animate some of these deleted scene and throw them on the DVD, as is common practice these days (it tends to lure more people into buying them).] But I think Sarabi's lullaby is important because it gives us a connection between Simba and his mother that is otherwise only subtly hinted at in the movie. And since the strength of his love for his mother is what drives him out in anger when Scar's strikes her, I think it's a bit important to emphasize that. It's also interesting because it gives us insight on the pride's "culture," of sorts, which is a nice way of connecting to the audience.

The problem is fitting it into the film without causing a drag or distracting from the main plot. It's placement is really the issue. As much as it would be nice to have a mother/son moment, it's antecedent to a more plot-purposeful father/son moment. Placing the two relatively close together is a bit like overkill. Additionally, it may separate the audience too long from the graveyard, to the point where the feeling of suspense and creepy mien of the setting wears off.


Possibly change Nala's voice. I like Moira Kelly, don't get me wrong. And up until recently, her voice didn't bother me. It still really doesn't. I think she nails the somber, gentler nature of Nala. But Heather Headly does much better at emphasizing the fierce, independent spirit she has. Not to mention that child Nala is played by a girl with a very distinct accent. For continuity reasons, it might have been better to carry over an actress with a similar voice.


I'll also second the cry for more cubs. *Especially* in TLK2. TLK1, we at least saw a hint of another one in the "Dad, wake up!" scene, and then there's Nala, and if you read the storybooks for TLK, there's a whole flock of the little things hanging around. But in TLK2, there's just Kiara, and then the Outlanders. What? C'mon now. At least *pretend* they have some inkling of how real prides work. Then again, with as overprotective as he is with Kiara, more cubs might just mean multiple heart attacks for Simba.

Simbaspirit
November 28th, 2005, 04:48 AM
the cub in the dad wake up scene is nala, i think.

chaotic serenit
November 28th, 2005, 05:41 AM
the cub in the dad wake up scene is nala, i think.

Hmm. Nala, I'm aware of, but I've heard there's another cub (older) that can be viewed in that scene? I might be mistaken. My resolution's always been too dark for me to study that scene and find out for myself.

I comment on this issue because it really baffles me. By all means, the pride should have been flourishing under Mufasa's reign - lots of cubs about. During Scar's rule, there should have been very few. Lionesses don't have set estrous cycles, as they can't predict the weather patterns. In a time when there's so little, I can't see why anybody would want to bring more hungry mouths to the table. Once Simba got the Pridelands up and running once more, there should have been at least a few cubs about. Large litters aren't common in lions, and one cub isn't necessarily strange, but at least 2-4 are generally birthed. (Mind you, lionesses have fairly long periods in between cubs. About 2 years until their initial batch is full grown, but still.)

So, you see, it confuses me a bit, because there females were getting pregnant in a time when they really *shouldn't* have, while in the times when they would have been very fertile...blegh. I'll just blame it on Disney's desire not wanting to mess with the kids red, white, and blue family values. :p

The Tigress
November 29th, 2005, 07:18 AM
I wish they would have entirely scapped SP because that movie makes absolutely no sense and is hardly consitant with the first TLK.

What they really should have done was make the 2nd TLK into a prequel about Mufasa and Scar as cubs. Not only a prequel, but a very well done "movie theater" movie and not some lame direct to video movie. I found it a disgrace that they would make a sequel to the best animated Disney film of all time into a shoddy plothole filled direct to video affair.

SP is basically a lower end TLK 1 done all over again but with crappier animation/crappier songs and a female cub instead of a male. Which btw, the cub Simba and Nala had at the end of the first TLK was indeed a male. It said so in all of my TLK merchandise/books/cards, etc I had when I was a kid. Shoot, I don't even consider SP cannon at all. I just disregard it entirely.

As you can see, I have a very low opinion of Simba's Pride. And I won't touch TLK 1.5 with a 50 foot pole although I thought it was more entertaining and well done than Simba's Pride. But what irked me was that it was all about Timon and Pumbaa.

I was really hoping for that prequel...

chaotic serenit
November 29th, 2005, 08:02 AM
In defense of Disney...

Films like TLK are high-end movie deals. Lots of time and money put into them. With the general public's view of sequels, Disney isn't going to risk throwing so much financial stake at a on-screen film debut. It's a lose-lose situation. Audiences tend to ignore sequels because they automatically compare it to the original and find it lesser, regardless of the actual content of the film. (Check the box office. Very few sequels do as well as the originals.) As a result, companies aren't willing to risk putting so much money into sequels, thus they put less effort into it, allowing sales to ride on the coattails of the original's fame. After all, why gamble so much on a sequel when you could use that time and money to work on fresh material? And thus goes the great circle of capitalism.

You have to keep in mind, as well, that TLK wasn't expected to be the massive hit that it turned out to be. When Disney first began work on it, the movie was actually second tier to the primary animation team, which was working on Pocahontas. You can imagine their surprise when it exploded in movie theatres, becoming the highest grossing animated film at the box office. They expected it to make money, don't get me wrong, but it's obvious they hadn't expected it to eclipse all of their previous work like it did. But lightening doesn't strike twice - even if TLK was a massive hit, there's no assurance that they'd get a full return on an equally ambitious secondary film.

There's also another issue at hand in giving a backstory to Mufasa and Scar - the possibility of varying interest. When you make a sequel, part of the pull is that you've already established a connection to a fanbase regarding certain characters. Although Mufasa and Scar are certainly impressionable, the main bulk of the audience is probably more familiar and interested in the protagonist, Simba, and his spotlight stealing companions, Timon and Pumbaa. I can see where Disney would be hesitant to start a major project on these two characters, especially with as limited as their screen-time is (as compared to Simba and company).

Additionally, what if they "botched" the story with Mufasa and Scar? If SP was handled so shoddily (which I actually don't think it was too bad, just had too big shoes to fill), then why would you want to risk ruining a background that is strife with mystery and suspense? I'd rather leave the background to the fanfic writers. As much as *want* to see what happened, I'm sure the same thing would happen in the TLK fandom as it did in the SW fandom when Lucas made the prequels - nobody would be happy with it, even if it was what they asked for, because everybody already had a decade to prescribe themselves to certain ideas about how the characters should be.

va-kasi
November 29th, 2005, 08:15 AM
Gotta agree with chaotic serenit here.

I don't think SP is a bad movie at all, but people keep comparing it to TLK. It's pretty obvious a low-budget sequel is not going to be able to stand on the same level as TLK. But as a stand-alone film it is good.

Have you watched the documentary "proud of Simba's Pride?" the director has some -very- good ideas, and a big story. Perhaps the audience just didn't catch them so well.

Anyway, I don't believe that it could be passed as truth that it?s a bad film in any way. Particularly when there are people who enjoy it equally or better than the original; (like myself, but not being the only one) even though its on a much lower budget.

chaotic serenit
November 29th, 2005, 02:34 PM
I don't think SP is a bad movie at all, but people keep comparing it to TLK. It's pretty obvious a low-budget sequel is not going to be able to stand on the same level as TLK. But as a stand-alone film it is good.

Well, it is possible to simply not like the film (I personally slightly prefer TLK 1.5 over SP), but I get tired of all the complaining about how Disney should have done better when, chances were, nothing they could have done would have pleased everyone.



Have you watched the documentary "proud of Simba's Pride?" the director has some -very- good ideas, and a big story. Perhaps the audience just didn't catch them so well.

It's not so much that, though it is important to note that *somebody* put time into it. But I dislike it when SP's qualities are overliked. If nothing else, it was one of the few Disney films that gave us *likeable,* empathetic villains. Scar was interesting because he was a very welll done villain, but he was an evil guy all the same. Zira's goals are morally wrong, but emotionally, we can understand where so much of her anger and drive comes from. Nuka's a fantastic character - pathetic, weak-minded, unlikeable, but yet ultimately sympathetic. And the villains aren't the only flawed characters - Simba is haunted by his past and allows it to influence his judgement; Kiara is very open-minded and loving, but she's also very sheltered, naive, and can be selfish; Kovu struggles to overcome his mother's militant indoctrination, as well as accepting the burden of responsibility to others than just himself.

I also dislike the argument that Simba's behavior is retrodevelopmental. How so? Because he's still flawed? Because he rightly suspects the Outlanders of treachery and violence? Zira never gave him any indication that he could expect otherwise. Because he's distrustful of Kovu and instantly dislikes him? A rival male who had been raised by a woman deadset to dethrone the current heir, who magically saved my daughter out of the blue from a mysterious fire would leave me pretty rattled, too. Because he allows his past experiences to overwhelm his conscientious judgement and exile Kovu? Hello? He was right. It doesn't matter if Kovu's goals ultimately changed, the fact remains that Simba had good reason to beware of him from the beginning. It's a shame that he was so quick to overturn his newfound respect for the boy, but what else was he supposed to work on? Simba is not clairvoyant. He got mauled by the entire Outlander pride, and Zira fingered Kovu as part of the conspiracy for regicide, which he had been until he fell for Kiara. Simba loves his daughter, but he has a responsibility to take care of his pride and lands, and unfortunately, with the information he had available (Kiara's arguments don't stand - she's too biased), he made the choice he felt needed to be made. Unfortunately, it was a *wrong* choice, but it was logical for the time in which it was made. It's the mark of a good leader that Simba was later willing to retract his decision and recognize his mistakes.

If anything, SP is a continuation of Simba's development. He's grown into the confidant, loving lion we know and taken his place as King, but this does not mean that he is completely without flaws. *Nothing* is going to erase the agony of his youth. I would find it less realistic if it wasn't affecting his judgement. SP just brings everything full circle, where Simba finally does manage to shake off the last of Scar's influence.



Anyway, I don't believe that it could be passed as truth that it?s a bad film in any way. Particularly when there are people who enjoy it equally or better than the original; (like myself, but not being the only one) even though its on a much lower budget.

Well, everything we say is opinion. Even the positive reflections. The issue is not generalizing that everybody feels the same way. I don't mind if people dislike SP. I just dislike the suggestion that all fandom would be better without it.

nathalie
November 29th, 2005, 02:37 PM
Also knowing, that those who draw the classics, aren't the ones who draw the sequels.

Another company within Disney does that, or something like that.

So that also explains why some characters look different, because the head animators from the first movie didn't draw on the sequel(s).

chaotic serenit
November 29th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Very true. The primary animation crew is scheduled to work on new projects. I doubt straight-to-home video projects even make it to second crew.

And, really, the animation in SP is nowhere near as awful as its hyped up to be. It's not as consistent in its quality as TLK is, I agree, which is where most Disney sequels have their animation flaws. But on the flip side, there are things that I actually think were improved since TLK: The animators of SP spent more time adding little details to the lions than the TLK animators did. The lionesses weren't all just Sarabi clones, especially the Outlanders.

And while it wasn't always successful, the animators obviously chose to experiment heavily with coloring in this film. There's alot of scenes that really stand out because of the color choices or background setups, which owes alot of credit to the creativity of the background crew. A savannah generally doesn't offer much variety, but SP was never short on new designs, even giving new life to familiar ones, like Pride Rock and the Elephant Graveyard.

The big difference between TLK and SP animation is really the style. SP's is much smoother and fluid - sometimes too much - than TLK, which initially throws a viewer if they're used to the original.

This Land
November 29th, 2005, 07:19 PM
I would of like to see sarabi in TLK so it dont look like she mysterly disappeared. I know moria kelly died, but they could of found a replacement or just at least put saribi in a scene but she dont speak. :D

chaotic serenit
November 30th, 2005, 07:23 AM
I think you mean Madge Sinclair. Moira Kelly (Nala) is still quite healthy and young. :)

I don't think we really need to see Sarabi as much as it would've been nice to have a name-check. Maybe Simba mentioning in passing that she'd died (which is what I think is the unspoken insinuation of her whereabouts in the movie). It's not as though she's unimportant, after all; we're talking about the former queen. That was part of where TLK2 managed to alienate some of its crowd - it promised TLK-original characters, but wound up shoving them aside in lieu of the fresh cast. Which, as a stand-alone movie, isn't bad at all. But with TLK, the original characters have a strong impression that carries with the film, so a nod in the direction might have helped things along better.

MafunDi
November 30th, 2005, 10:46 AM
As most of my prewriters already said, adding something to the movie would most probably destroy the plot and the sentimental feelings along with the movie. But, given the fact, it wouldn't, probably I want to have more Sarafina in it, I think she is cute and a interesting character. Moreover it would be great to have more sentimental scenes. Everything with emotions. Let it be more father-son relations, more love, more hate. But, as this movie already is one of the emotional movies to me, probably this would going to be emotional overloaded o.O
In fact it would make the movie at least less suitable for children. But even anatomically correct drawings would do that, and hey, it would be at least interesting, don't you think? Or, let's say, more natural.

Prince_Kivoru
December 4th, 2005, 12:43 AM
I have one question. I've herad about this for a while and I still have no idea what it is...what's all this talk about Sarabi's lulaby? I've heard about Zira's Lulaby, but what happened to Sarabi's?

chaotic serenit
December 4th, 2005, 03:49 AM
Sarabi's lullaby was a cut scene where Simba, still a bit frightened following the hyena confrontation, finds comfort from his mother, who sings him a lullaby about some...lion...something like that. The point being that is was mother/son bonding.

I think somebody posted pictures from the concept art on the first page of this thread.

DarkPaw
December 5th, 2005, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by MafunDi
But even anatomically correct drawings would do that, and hey, it would be at least interesting, don't you think? Or, let's say, more natural.

I would have thought that interesting. I mean, they make kids' programs with live animals. See, though, we dismiss it simply because their animals. If someone put it in an animated movie, there'd be sayings that it was 'dirty' or people would get uncomfortable. Odd how that works, no?

But hey, I gotta bring up Dreamworks here. Look at Spirit from Spirit: Stallion of The Cimmaron (how d'ya spell that!?) and Spike from Sinbad: Legend of The Seven Seas. In case anyone is unfamiliar, Spirit is the main character, and Spike is the tanish-goldish dog that belongs to Sinbad.

Now, especially apparent when Spike (I love that dog) is eating off the table (you'll know it when you see it) at the party in Syracuse, that he's well, a male! Spirit, too. It's not to in-your-face, but you get it. See? As far as I know, nothing's been said. But I'm not hardcore with those movies like with Lion King (no, just a strong fan), so I'll do a web run real quick.

Anywho, even on the Spirit website, where you can color your own horse and let it run, you can tell males from females. I just wish that if Dreamworks was gonna' do that, the females could have, like, teats or whatever. I mean, if you're gonna do it, do it equally!

Okay, off to do that web-run. Oh yeah, I've been gone forever because of a move and a short lack of phone/internet access, but I'm back now ;) BRB hopefully with the net run's response!

chaotic serenit
December 7th, 2005, 08:27 AM
To be fair, TLK was drowning in enough drama as it was because of the content - why would Disney want to stir up more controversy by putting something in that would get the more conservative members riled? I'm not even particularly sensitive to the issue, and I'm not really interested in anatomically correct characters in a cartoon It's not like genitalia are particularly attractive body parts, and as lions are the only species of big cats that exhibit sexual dimorphism, it really isn't needed.

Mind you, as you get older and more mature, you start to realize that these sterilized animals do look more than a little strange, but as it's not really anything particularly distracting - which "nudity" would have been. I think the public would have to grow more comfortable with realistic nudity (as in live action movies) before we moved into something like animation, where reality is purposefully distorted to be more aesthetically and emotionally appealing.

DarkPaw
December 7th, 2005, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by chaotic serenit
It's not like genitalia are particularly attractive body parts, and as lions are the only species of big cats that exhibit sexual dimorphism, it really isn't needed.

That's very true, about the sexual dimorphism. That got me thinking, people would be very confused wuth Shenzi, if you understand sexual dimorphism in female spotted heyenas...

Well, what I would have liked wiould have been the very subtle suggestion that Dreamworks gave to Spirit and Spike.
But this is Disney, not Dreamworks, it's just something that would have been cool, but you have intensely valid points there.

chaotic serenit
December 8th, 2005, 04:58 AM
That's very true, about the sexual dimorphism. That got me thinking, people would be very confused wuth Shenzi, if you understand sexual dimorphism in female spotted heyenas...

Hee. I was thinking about that myself. :D Though poor Shenzi's bound to get her gender puzzled over regardless. When I was kid, I actually though Shenzi was male when I first saw that movie. That low voice had me befuddled for the longest time. (Interestingly enough, Shenzi is a perfect feminist tool for that reason. Her gender isn't used to define her character in any such way, nor does she conform to any feminine stereotypes. Go Disney writers!)


Well, what I would have liked wiould have been the very subtle suggestion that Dreamworks gave to Spirit and Spike.
But this is Disney, not Dreamworks, it's just something that would have been cool, but you have intensely valid points there.

I can see perfectly well what you're saying, and it might be interesting to watch if it develops in the next few decades or so. Even if Disney did want to draw model-accurate characters, they'd have to battle another social stigma as well - the one that the public as a whole has attached to Disney as a source of children's entertainment. Dreamworks can be a little more exploratory because it's attached to a fairly expansive movie base. Disney has always been coined as the end-all provider of a young children's movies. As nice as the suggestion that children should be comfortable with gender is, I'm doubtful we'll see it come into play anytime soon.

I should also add that if Disney were to take the plunge, I think it would be best if they did it in a movie where the animals were as anatomically correct as possible, if only to lend a more natural feel to such an addition. Really, as far as TLK goes, the last concern we should have regarding physical accuracies is whether or not Simba can father cubs. I mean, I still can't figure out why they all have eyebrows.

;)

MafunDi
December 8th, 2005, 02:24 PM
I still like the "old" Version of CYFTLT o.o
Somewhere you can download a song with it, I remember.

Kiara Serengeti
December 9th, 2005, 04:47 PM
I wish they'd kept the Zira's suicide scene...I've got a morbid mind...

chaotic serenit
December 9th, 2005, 06:41 PM
Zira's suicide? *interest piques*

IMO, she did commit suicide by refusing Kiara's help, though I'm assuming this was more dramatic once...?

Ralli
December 9th, 2005, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by MafunDi
I still like the "old" Version of CYFTLT o.o
Somewhere you can download a song with it, I remember.


Oh yes! Man, I didn't even think about that. Oh, you might want to point out 'which one'...there was another version (there were about, what, fifteen different versions, but only two were storyboarded, right?) that was storyboarded, with Timon and Pumbaa singing it. I love the Simba and Nala one, though.


...but...I really do...get a kick out of the Timon and Pumbaa version. xD; Especially the very beginning that they didn't have in the English version of the DVD. I'd die if they had kept that version, though. It'd just be funny to see...especially Pumbaa's expressions when Timon was being hypothetical but he didn't realize that.

Kiara Serengeti
December 10th, 2005, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by chaotic serenit
Zira's suicide? *interest piques*

IMO, she did commit suicide by refusing Kiara's help, though I'm assuming this was more dramatic once...?

Yes--you can find it here, in Va-Kasi's excellent site: http://www.lionking.org/~vakasi/

There's a LOT of scenes I wish they'd put in SP! :eek:

Nephilim
December 10th, 2005, 11:53 AM
Did I post in here already?

Well, for me it would have to be more information on Scar/Mufasa. To me it seemed to be the only interesting relationship in the whole damn movie. Everything else was just clich?d fluff with no real substance.

Kiara Serengeti
December 10th, 2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Nephilim
Did I post in here already?

Well, for me it would have to be more information on Scar/Mufasa. To me it seemed to be the only interesting relationship in the whole damn movie. Everything else was just clich?d fluff with no real substance.

Wow...:cheese:
I don't know. The Sarabi\Mufasa relationship was barely explored at all. I loved the Simba\Mufasa relationship. As for Timon\Pumbaa, I thought it was just a 'silly' friendship...it's hard to do a lot of exploring in a 90-minute film.

chaotic serenit
December 11th, 2005, 07:15 AM
The bitter relationship between brothers really isn't all that original as well. Hamlet has been rehashed hundreds of times - though I admit I'm curious as to what turned them against each other so visciously. Certainly power couldn't have been the only reason...?

I actually think the relationship between The Trio is the most interesting to explore, which is why I'm really glad they came out with TLK 1.5. There's alot of different dynamics to the way Simba, Timon, and Pumbaa work together. There's the obvious friendship, but regardless of the circumstances leading to it, Timon and Pumbaa would have ultimately become parents to Simba. There's especially alot of paternal overtones to Simba and Timon's relationship that just barely get prodded in the movies. Pumbaa's childlike to a certain extent, but he has a rather unique capacity for emotional intuition that Timon tends to lack. Simba's the only one out of the three with a modicum of common sense, and it's interesting to see how he can be so incredibly close to them, when they really don't know him at all.

I don't know, maybe I'm just rambling, but I've always like the chemistry between the three of them. The fact that their voice actors are all well-acquainted and friends doesn't hurt. :p


And thanks for the link! That was some pretty interesting stuff.

Vekke
December 15th, 2005, 06:36 AM
Was Sarabi's Lullaby ever recorded? Or was it dropped really early?

It'd be awesome to hear.

Is the SP documentary on the DVD? I still need to get that one. XD I love watching stuff about movies. :O

TheUnknownSoul
December 16th, 2005, 04:37 AM
no, Sarabi's song wasnt written (Far as I know...) just those few story boards. the idea was dropped quickly...

maybe I could come up with something *ponder*

Adrenaline
December 31st, 2005, 05:39 AM
I wish Sarafina had more lines, she could have made such a great character. :/