Lulzsec and Hacktivism

[Asikinari]

Okay, so, in case all of you haven't kept up with recent online trends, a hack group called Lulzsec is going bat**** crazy all over the internet. Over the past 5 days, they have engaged combat with the [more] popular hacktivist group called Anonymous nested in a site called 4chan. Furthermore, they have taken down the CIA website, leaked out 62,000+ accounts and passwords to World of Warcraft, Gmail, Facebook, Runescape, Twitter, PayPal, you name it! These folks are big pieces of things that aren't allowed to be said on a pg13 site! They also have flooded the servers of popular MMORPG's including Minecraft, League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, EVE Online through a method called DDOS.

I'd like to urge everyone to modify the passwords to your accounts right about now. If you have a twitter, search "Lulzsec" to keep up with what they're doing. It's not right, and they're ruining the internet for me. It also gives higher incentive for here in the US to do something even crazier about the internet after destroying net neutrality.

[shadowland]

Smells like government staging to me.

[Asikinari]

This I highly doubt. Anonymous attacks groups like the WBC and some of the music industry for being pricks. Lulzsec takes down online games and emails and porn site accounts. Speculate all the government set ups you want, I'm interested in hearing how porn sites and mmo's tie up to congress with these hackers.

[lionloversam]

Smells like government staging to me.

Agreed.

[Asikinari]

Anyway... if you're concerned, you may check if your account has been leaked. http://gizmodo.com/5812545/find-out-if-your-passwords-were-leaked-by-lulzsec-right-here

[Wide Eyed Wanderer]

As much as I trust Gizmodo...I don't go around entering my email address in random websites...this is my security system...
:lol:

[shadowland]

It also gives higher incentive for here in the US to do something even crazier about the internet after destroying net neutrality.


Speculate all the government set ups you want

:lol:

Wouldn't be the first time a government has created a simulated crises to push a political agenda *cough* patriot act lol

[ThiagoPE]

Some years ago, one of the passwords i used were leaked from one big furry site, in that time i always used same password for all sites, now i use more than one to avoid a problem if one of them be leaked.

Anyway, to me is really hard to beleave that "only" hackers could damage the CIA website...

[Guntur]

Really? I'm technically not afraid of these hacker because in my term, they are "SCUMBAGS!"

Of course I would be pissed if someone manage to get all my information through internet and leak it somewhere. I would get pissed, not being afraid of them!

About government involvement? I highly doubt they will pressure the internet users for any undoing except for breaking the laws!

Agree with Thiago, If one hacker breach into the confidential files by his own hand? It equal to a 4 human brain to sort things out to do the same thing! I generally disbelieve if one person done a big job without any help! Even terrorist required ten human brain and couple of hundred militant to take town New York eleven years ago, and that's involved both physical and mental work!

Generally those dude need to do physical exercise, need a hard discipline or social lifestyle instead exercise their fingers for 24 hours! But.... The weak ones are there to justify the strong. :wicked: :evilgrin:

[King Simba]

My Paypal account was recently hacked (it was hacked almost a month ago though) and since then I haven't been able to log in and change my account details, so they can do all they want with that now. I'll have to get a new account to be able to use the account I have now on Paypal again. :woe: Darn hackers... -_-

[Sadiki]

:lol: I almost hope they leaked my WoW account, it hasn't been active in over 2 years and none of the personal information on it is correct except my first and last name.

What comes to hackers, they can be more dangerous than weapons of mass destruction as they can literally freeze all the connections in one or multiple countries. Thought I doubt any small group could do that, but I do remember when I was in military they were talking about how hackers are one of the most effective weapons in modern warfare.

[Guntur]

:lol: I almost hope they leaked my WoW account, it hasn't been active in over 2 years and none of the personal information on it is correct except my first and last name.

What comes to hackers, they can be more dangerous than weapons of mass destruction as they can literally freeze all the connections in one or multiple countries. Thought I doubt any small group could do that, but I do remember when I was in military they were talking about how hackers are one of the most effective weapons in modern warfare.

Yeah, like what happen when Wikileak leak some classified information on US government. indeed they could be a tool against one country by leaking it and use the advantage against the government itself like how journalism counter back their own government like in Libya.

[shadowland]

Yeah, like what happen when Wikileak leak some classified information on US government. indeed they could be a tool against one country by leaking it and use the advantage against the government itself like how journalism counter back their own government like in Libya.

Wikileaks report from other sources, I don't think they're hackers themsselves. They'll report what mainstream media outlets (bought & paid for or not) won't.

[Juniper]

If these are Americans playing these little hacker games, then that sounds like treason or sedition to me.




Wikileaks report from other sources, I don't think they're hackers themsselves. They'll report what mainstream media outlets (bought & paid for or not) won't.

As long as it suits their agenda.

[shadowland]

If these are Americans playing these little hacker games, then that sounds like treason or sedition to me.

Treason is betrayal of your country..and in Amerikkuh it seems treason is also being an australian citizen reporting corruption within other countries :D cause y'know, treason is betrayal of your own country and all..lol. Hacker games = illegal intrusion, simple as that.





As long as it suits their agenda.
their agenda = exposing corrupt institutions and freedom of information. lol u mad?

[Juniper]

Treason is betrayal of your country..and in Amerikkuh it seems treason is also being an australian citizen reporting corruption within other countries :D cause y'know, treason is betrayal of your own country and all..lol. Hacker games = illegal intrusion, simple as that.





their agenda = exposing corrupt institutions and freedom of information. lol u mad?

Calm down, there's no need to be so abrasive. You may have just missed it, but I said "If these people are Americans" and I was referring to lulsec hacking into CIA information. Those aren't Just hacker games in my humble opinion.

[Guntur]

Treason is betrayal of your country..and in Amerikkuh it seems treason is also being an australian citizen reporting corruption within other countries :D cause y'know, treason is betrayal of your own country and all..lol. Hacker games = illegal intrusion, simple as that.





their agenda = exposing corrupt institutions and freedom of information. lol u mad?
We are talking more about professional hacker activity not a virtual wannabe. :p

Like Pnt tell us, it is treason since they are attempt to breach the security and break confidential files!

[shadowland]

Calm down, there's no need to be so abrasive. You may have just missed it, but I said "If these people are Americans" and I was referring to lulsec hacking into CIA information. Those aren't Just hacker games in my humble opinion.

It is what it is, illegal intrusion. Adding technicality charges to it just cause you hate hackers is sad. And lay off of wikileaks.


Really? I'm technically not afraid of these hacker because in my term, they are "SCUMBAGS!"

Of course I would be pissed if someone manage to get all my information through internet and leak it somewhere. I would get pissed, not being afraid of them!

About government involvement? I highly doubt they will pressure the internet users for any undoing except for breaking the laws!

Agree with Thiago, If one hacker breach into the confidential files by his own hand? It equal to a 4 human brain to sort things out to do the same thing! I generally disbelieve if one person done a big job without any help! Even terrorist required ten human brain and couple of hundred militant to take town New York eleven years ago, and that's involved both physical and mental work!

Generally those dude need to do physical exercise, need a hard discipline or social lifestyle instead exercise their fingers for 24 hours! But.... The weak ones are there to justify the strong.

And you, why are you calling them scumbags? They clearly have the know-how and intelligence to break through sophisticated digital security systems, I'd say that demands some kind of respect whether you approve or not. Don't hate hackers cause they can do things you can't. Maybe it's out of fear, who knows.

[Guntur]

It is what it is, illegal intrusion. Adding technicality charges to it just cause you hate hackers is sad. And lay off of wikileaks.



And you, why are you calling them scumbags? They clearly have the know-how and intelligence to break through sophisticated digital security systems, I'd say that demands some kind of respect whether you approve or not. Don't hate hackers cause they can do things you can't. Maybe it's out of fear, who knows.

LOL! :lol: They shouldn't get respect since they're committing crimes through breaching security. :p I don't see any positive towards someone who commit something that aren't good and pleased themselves by doing it. Since we're in internet, I can see why people praising hackers like their own heroes. :p

On side note, Hackers can't do things like I can: Making music, exploring on studio engineering, masters on certain instrument, and other stuff. :p

[Sadiki]

And you, why are you calling them scumbags? They clearly have the know-how and intelligence to break through sophisticated digital security systems, I'd say that demands some kind of respect whether you approve or not. Don't hate hackers cause they can do things you can't. Maybe it's out of fear, who knows.

Hmmm... I really must disagree with you on this. That you know how to do something, doesn't make it okay or intellectual. That one has capability to cause mayhem and breach highly secured databases, doesn't make it respectful by any means. It's nothing less than terrorism, no way what you look at it. And I personally have not slightest bit of respect towards these people.

And what comes them having intelligence, I hardly believe that. Knowledge, yes, but apparently their mind isn't capable on processing the moral part of what they are doing and the people it effects, which is that separates us from animals. Serial killers/psychopaths lack of moral as well and that's why they don't feel remorse towards their victims making it possible for them to do what they do. So yeah these people can have brain capacity above 99.9% of us, but as far as thinking of the consequences of their actions go I hardly would raise it above child's mind. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe they are just evil by heart, but I think what it is mostly is that they are trying to push the limit of their capability and test what they can do and what they can't without really thinking what it does to rest of people.

[Juniper]

It is what it is, illegal intrusion. Adding technicality charges to it just cause you hate hackers is sad. And lay off of wikileaks.



And you, why are you calling them scumbags? They clearly have the know-how and intelligence to break through sophisticated digital security systems, I'd say that demands some kind of respect whether you approve or not. Don't hate hackers cause they can do things you can't. Maybe it's out of fear, who knows.

Bro, seriously, mellow out, you're starting to sound like me. :stick:




On side note, Hackers can't do things like I can: Making music, exploring on studio engineering, masters on certain instrument, and other stuff. :p

Or woo the ladies like you, Zack ;)

Which is what it all boils down to. Hear me out on this: Today, while being a contributing member of society, I got to thinking, I said "Pntbll, why do these hackers do this?" and it struck me -- it's because they are lame. They have low reproductive fitness, they're too lame to get a girl, and too poor to rent one, so they cause issues for people with higher reproductive fitness. They attacked Sony -- lots of rich executives and successful engineers, and it also has some of the best employee gyms and fitness programs of any large corporation, so you can be sure they're all cut. Then there was the CIA: women dig secret agents, and I'm gonna bet that there is not a single man in the entire CIA that does not have a lady waiting at home. Heck, they probably have to fight the women off when they go out to bars. They even attacked a few pornographic websites -- nothing else needs to be said regarding that. Submitted for your approval: Hackers are obnoxious because they cannot get a date.

But I digress, as I have beers to drink and explosives to detonate. Happy 4th, everyone!

[shadowland]

Bro, seriously, mellow out, you're starting to sound like me. :stick:




Or woo the ladies like you, Zack ;)

Which is what it all boils down to. Hear me out on this: Today, while being a contributing member of society, I got to thinking, I said "Pntbll, why do these hackers do this?" and it struck me -- it's because they are lame. They have low reproductive fitness, they're too lame to get a girl, and too poor to rent one, so they cause issues for people with higher reproductive fitness. They attacked Sony -- lots of rich executives and successful engineers, and it also has some of the best employee gyms and fitness programs of any large corporation, so you can be sure they're all cut. Then there was the CIA: women dig secret agents, and I'm gonna bet that there is not a single man in the entire CIA that does not have a lady waiting at home. Heck, they probably have to fight the women off when they go out to bars. They even attacked a few pornographic websites -- nothing else needs to be said regarding that. Submitted for your approval: Hackers are obnoxious because they cannot get a date.

But I digress, as I have beers to drink and explosives to detonate. Happy 4th, everyone!

Implying money and copious amounts of women is being a successful member of society. As for what Fendi said, yeah they probably can dude...the one hacker I know plays guitar and has even written a few of his own audio plugins. To be a hacker, you have to be smart, it's as simple as that. Computing is a complex subject and to hack anything you have to fully understand how it works.

They attacked sony for numerous, real things. Read up on it yourself.

Look at the world now, it runs on friggen computers, what are hackers absolute experts at?..you guessed it, if you're not an absolute moron. They hold mastery over what modern industry and almost everything else is dependent on. Have you ever seen what real hackers get up to? I'm not talking about the script kiddie losers you see on youtube pissing about, I'm talking about the people who know their stuff. They make several K in one night if they find the right opportunity. I wonder what you do..slave away working all week for a wage much lower than what you truly deserve? Lol you sound very successful, enjoy being a moneymaking cattle for the "society" you "contribute" to you clueless ***.


Submitted for your approval: Hackers are obnoxious because they cannot get a date.

Approval denied.


I'm jelly and slightly scared of hackers so imma belittle them where they cant see me hurr

Approved.

[Juniper]

Look man, there's no reason we need to be acting like this. If I offended you, I apologize.

[Safila]

wow.. now this is a debate... keep going *hands you all some timtams*

[shadowland]

Look man, there's no reason we need to be acting like this. If I offended you, I apologize.

Yes there is, you've been an ignorant *** for the larger part of this thread and you got the reaction that such behaviour warrants. But at least you apologised, ty

http://i52.tinypic.com/2jaag0i.png


LOL! They shouldn't get respect since they're committing crimes through breaching security. I don't see any positive towards someone who commit something that aren't good and pleased themselves by doing it. Since we're in internet, I can see why people praising hackers like their own heroes.

So you're suggesting anything outside the law is bad and doesn't deserve respect or any kind of merit..ok lol...I guess the jews of telemark forming a resistance and killing nazis (which was illegal under the law laid down by the occupation) also deserves no merit or respect right? Genius.

[Safila]

Isn't the point of these threads for evryone to say what their opinions are whether you like them or not ..?

I think hackers are asses, they have all these brains but don't put them to good use.. Find a way to feed the poor places, find a way to teach kids that are too poor to go to school and choose gangs instead, find a way to get water running in African places.. see lots of choices instead of hacking porn sites// pleassseeee :lalala:

[shadowland]

Isn't the point of these threads for evryone to say what their opinions are whether you like them or not ..?

I think hackers are asses, they have all these brains but don't put them to good use.. Find a way to feed the poor places, find a way to teach kids that are too poor to go to school and choose gangs instead, find a way to get water running in African places.. see lots of choices instead of hacking porn sites// pleassseeee :lalala:

There are many hackers that do that....I seem to recall one group breaking into a military network somewhere in India and defacing god-knows how many interfaces with "food not bombs" slogans..the whole story was real long, if I find it again I'll share it here. There are more than the hackers that make the news doing all this "lulz" ****, theyre the minority when it comes to the unseen underground. But ofc only reporting the bad will make people hate and fear all hackers, which works in the favour of the institutions that get undermined by them.

[Safila]

Defacing things are what 5 year old do when having a tantrum.. If they want peeps to defend them, they need to use their 'power' for much bigger better things that will improve those with less or nothing lives.

[shadowland]

Defacing things are what 5 year old do when having a tantrum.. If they want peeps to defend them, they need to use their 'power' for much bigger better things that will improve those with less or nothing lives.

You're kinda stripping away the context there dontcha think?

write on the walls with your crayons = 5 yr old stuff

break into private military networks, disrupt services and leave political slogans and messages on every terminal = holy sh!t pro stuff

edit: its not done for your or my or anyone elses approval, its done to actively support what they believe is right. I have a great deal of respect for that. Gunning for popularity is for politicians.

[Dare]

write on the walls with your crayons = 5 yr old stuff

break into private military networks, disrupt services and leave political slogans and messages on every terminal = holy sh!t pro stuff


Just because the tools and skills being used are different doesn't take away the fact that a temper tantrum is still a temper tantrum.
;)

[Guntur]

Sorry for being a scumbag or an asshole but I don't see any reason why we should praise on their activity as a hackers. In general all their activity are rather illegal taking against another party without any fair game at all! It's like a part of a 'crusade' or a 'vendetta' against another individual and organization.

Sorry for my disapprove on hackers but I do not see any positive for them to attack any government organization.... Unless they are working under intelligence. ;)

Edit: I believe this isn't going nowhere. I believer we should lock and bury this argument and put it into the past! It just a conflict point of views that nobody cares at all.

[Safila]

Stop calling yourself names Fendi, you're allowed your opinion about it, like everyone else :hugs:

[shadowland]

Just because the tools and skills being used are different doesn't take away the fact that a temper tantrum is still a temper tantrum.
;)

It was not a temper tantrum, it was the deliverance of a message. Temper tantrums tend to involve some sort of butthurt, lol.

[Dare]

It was not a temper tantrum, it was the deliverance of a message. Temper tantrums tend to involve some sort of butthurt, lol.

One could argue that a toddler scribbling on the wall in defiance of his parents is also delivering a "message", albeit one that most would be inclined to ignore...just as my dog pissing on the couch is delivering the message that he did not agree with my giving him a bath 10 minutes earlier. The presence of butthurt or not is irrelevant - just because there is no butthurt involved doesn't make the actions any more valid (or less valid, for that matter).

However, we are digressing from the topic at hand.
;)

I, for one, don't really feel either way on the issue...however, I always take great concern in the actions of people who believe that what they are doing is "righteous" - more often than not, everything ends up twisted, which in turn ends badly for all concerned.

[shadowland]

One could argue that a toddler scribbling on the wall in defiance of his parents is also delivering a "message", albeit one that most would be inclined to ignore...just as my dog pissing on the couch is delivering the message that he did not agree with my giving him a bath 10 minutes earlier. The presence of butthurt or not is irrelevant - just because there is no butthurt involved doesn't make the actions any more valid (or less valid, for that matter).

However, we are digressing from the topic at hand.
;)

I, for one, don't really feel either way on the issue...however, I always take great concern in the actions of people who believe that what they are doing is "righteous" - more often than not, everything ends up twisted, which in turn ends badly for all concerned.


See, this is why the context is important when it comes to this. They broke into a military network and made it unuseable for its owners, leaving only displays of their political slogan for the operators access. This says "We broke through your defences. We can go further. We dont like what you're doing. We can cause chaos to you if we want to, but we believe in a peaceful protest. Remember you dont have power over us". Diminishing it by comparing it to something a dog or a child does is simply not valid, sorry. I know I'm gonna get the same old sh!t argument from lots of people here so balls to this "discussion".

[Sadiki]

There are many hackers that do that....I seem to recall one group breaking into a military network somewhere in India and defacing god-knows how many interfaces with "food not bombs" slogans..

Actually if there is any truth in what one of our high lieutenants told us during military tactics lectures when I was in military. Hackers used towards any military operation or breaking into military database are counted as weapons. In fact now days ( as I think was said before ) most stuff is operated by computers. Gas pumps, ATMs, phones, air traffic... you name it. Therefore hackers can be way more effective in war than 10 nuclear missiles. Yeah the death toll is not going to be as remarkable, but the damage caused to the other party is way greater. So saying "food not bombs" they are themselves actually "a bomb" attacking towards the organization, being it military or non-military.

What comes to my opinion about hackers. Well that all depends on what kind of hackers are we talking about? Hackers that are working for the greater good? Or hackers that are just trying to find out their limits? If we're talking about the people who are legally doing something, in example programing new programs, in which cases they are not really called hackers as, hacking usually is connected on breaching security systems, but programmers. But if we're talking about those people who hack into any kind of secured database. Be it a simple forum or a military/government database, I automatically stamp those hackers as terrorists. They may not be the same people who blow up buildings or trains, but still they terrorize other people by doing that. Which makes them just as bad as those who blow up buildings or hijack planes.

It was also said that they can make a few K in one night thought I'm not sure if this was meant illegally or legally because I know both are possible. But I do assume this was meant illegally and if that is the case, that money is not for them to take. That you have capability to break into somebodies account doesn't mean you should. But the people who do that are the kind of people where saying " opportunity makes the thief " is as it's best use. In this case, at least in my opinion you're just as criminal as a person who pulls a gun on you in dark alley or breaks into your house. Criminal is a criminal and they get no respect from my end. No matter how glorious their plan is or how well they can make themselves disappear.

So yeah hackers are just modern criminals, nothing more. You wouldn't have respect for a murderer, then don't have any for hackers either. The only hackers I have respect for are the ones that have a capability to do things, but still don't. Know that is something to cherish.

[shadowland]

Edit: can earn several K in one night. And idk about you but I dont automatically associate breaking the law with being a bad person, morals come before legality in my eyes. And wtf, how are they "bombs" LOL.

[Sadiki]

Bomb = Weapon = Hackers are one of the most destructive weapons of modern warfare.

And breaking a law automatically making you a criminal depends on what degree you're breaking the law on. I.e. traffic violation does not make you a criminal, where stealing Email accounts and passwords, obtaining classified information from government agencies or getting personal information such as bank accounts do automatically make you a criminal, no matter what way you look at it. And I do say this again, I have no problem with people capable on hacking, that is just fine, but when you use your talent to cause mayhem, that is where you lose all the respect in my eyes as well as be viewed as criminal or terrorist as in legal terms.

And I do want to state that this is my opinion and anyone may agree or disagree with what I'm saying. It does seem like the subject is very touchy for you SL to react the way you do, maybe you have a friend or family member who is capable on such a thing or maybe you yourself are capable on some level of hacking, but that doesn't mean that most people will have to or ever will approve on hacking being the way to go or that it's respectful. I personally have been victim of hackers only once and that was when they hacked into Sony's Playstation network, luckily the only information they were able to obtain from me was my first and last name. along with email address and password I was using only in PSN.

And what comes to being scared of hackers? I guess hackers could really mess up my life, but so could many things in this world. Therefore I have no point on being scared by hackers. I know I'm not capable on protecting myself from them, but that doesn't mean I should be scared of them.

[Revo]

The way I see it, hackers are just vigilantes. Vigilantism might work in comic books, but in the real world it hardly ever achieves the required results. Just like government officials shouldn't impose their own personal opinions on the public, vigilantes are not free to threaten anyone or attack anyone because of what they personally think is right. I don't deny that their skills might be impressive, but bare skill doesn't earn any extra respect, atleast I don't think it should. It's what you do with that skill that counts. Vigilantism is not respectable, honorable or wanted. It only produces superficial results if any, and there is no place for it in society. They might think they're heroes in their eyes and in the eyes of their supporters, but that doesn't speak to the actual morality of their actions.

Speaking of temper tantrums and butthurt as it relates to discussion.. One major indicator of butthurt is calling people names, making personal attacks and getting all defensive by making passive aggressive jokes out of everything. How that relates to the flow of this discussion, I'll let everybody figure that out for themselves. All I'm saying is let's lay it down with the butthurt, ok? It's immature.

[Wide Eyed Wanderer]

Well this whole 'discussion' seems pretty passive-aggressive if you ask me...

It seems there is a wider debate at hand here, one of how you define criminality. Is a criminal still a criminal if what he does is for the greater good?

Break out the bibles folks, this ones going to run and run...
:haha:

[Kihari]

First of all, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_%28computer_security%29), this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_hat), and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hat).

I think at least a few people in this thread understand that hacking is nothing more than a particular skill; that it is a technical one makes it no more menacing than many other abilities one might have, just as having knowledge of it does not indicate that one is an antisocial basement dweller of the worst kind. Having elite computer know-how also does not guarantee one respect or admiration (but if it does show up, then there you go).

The decision as to whether or not someone's actions are appropriate should be based solely on the actions themselves--the application of the skills used.

With regards to morality, I've witnessed or heard of several instances of websites getting sacked or accounts getting broken into, and I'll say this: Some of those cases frightened me beyond belief (why are government websites not secure?), and others just made me laugh.

It's all very subjective, but whether it's right or wrong makes little difference when you focus on the fact that the systems that were targeted should not have been vulnerable (at least not so vulnerable that random morons on the Internet could take them out like it was nothing). Sometimes, not enough responsibility sticks to those who allow these sorts of incidents to happen; this must change.

Lastly,


I believe we should lock and bury this argument ... It just a conflict point of views that nobody cares at all.

I wholly disagree.

[Shadow]

Hacking ftw!!

joke aside, iv never been effected by this crap, so, i dunno if the s"¤!t hits the fan it hits the fan, i mean not much we can do.

i dont have any money on my accounts anyway im broke xP