Is TLK Guilty of Racism? Gender issues? Homosexuality?

[2 Die FR]

I was in the library today, thumbing through a book about how racism, discrimination, and other nasty topics in Disney movies are teaching children bad concepts about life. Intrigued at how Disney animation could possibly be accused of such a thing, I immediately flipped to the index and searched for the "L" section. Yup, there it was- a link to two whole pages about how TLK is sending the wrong message to a juvenile audience.

It said that TLK is portraying a male-dominant society, as most of the characters are male and all of the leaders (Kings) who are in charge of the kingdom are of course male. The females all take minor roles (there is no song about being anxious about being queen, this book was so cheerful to notice), and even when Scar is in charge, they are obedient and do the master's bidding. The book ALSO points the fingers at the hyenas and says they are portrayed as Hispanics, and that since the hyenas are at the bottom of the food chain and neglected that TLK is being racial too. Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).

Do any of you believe this? I have a real hard time. These are the same people who discriminate against Sesame Street because almost all the puppets are male. *sigh*

[la_reina]

In my opinion, it's all a pile of bull to me :disagree: It's a movie, c'mon, does society always have to do something like this??? Here's a question: did anyone else actually give these any mind? And why would they think that the hyenas are Hispanics? These movies were made for the pleasure of an audience for God's sake :rolleyes:

[nathalie]

*hmm* It's an animated, made up story, a cartoon, etc ...

I'd like to stick to that, without asking and wondering all the time, or saying like: hey, that ain't true in real life (and stuff like that). :)

[Aurelian]

That is bogus.


It said that TLK is portraying a male-dominant society, as most of the characters are male and all of the leaders (Kings) who are in charge of the kingdom are of course male. The females all take minor roles (there is no song about being anxious about being queen, this book was so cheerful to notice), and even when Scar is in charge, they are obedient and do the master's bidding.

Then you might as well acuse real life lion prides of the same thing, because that is what it is based on. Besides, haven't all America's presidents and vice presidents, and all England's Prime Ministors been male?


The book ALSO points the fingers at the hyenas and says they are portrayed as Hispanics, and that since the hyenas are at the bottom of the food chain and neglected that TLK is being racial too.

There is absoulutly no basis to that claim. I have never gotten the idea of hyenas being hispanic. The only connection I know of is that the voice of Banzai, Cheech Marin, is Mexican. Also, hyenas are not at the bottem of the food chain. They eat wildabeats and antelopes just like lions. They play the brain washed hopefulls in TLK.


Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).

While I have nothing against homosexuality, that is far fetched. Timon and Pumbaa are best freinds, to the extent of being virtual brothers. I suppose the idea came from the scene where Nala finds Timon sleeping on Pumbaa's stomach. However, this is no reference to sexual preference or activity between the two. It is supposed to show close freindship in a cartoony way, nothing more. Besides, meercats and warthogs are not compatable as partners.

[la_reina]

Originally posted by nathalie
*hmm* It's an animated, made up story, a cartoon, etc ...

I'd like to stick to that, without asking and wondering all the time, or saying like: hey, that ain't true in real life (and stuff like that). :)

That's exactly what I'm saying...some people just have to get into things.

[nathalie]

Yeah ...

And about that Timon & Pumbaa: so me and my best (girl)friend were both lesbiennes?
Because we were best friends, hang out together, etc ...

*oh please*

[Kiara Serengeti]

I can see the male thing (from THEIR point of view, not mine). But Hispanic hyenas? Where'd they get THAT? Sigh. This is about as stupid as the thing about changing 'Adam and Eve' to 'Eve and Adam'. And Timon and Pumbaa are just two buddies hanging out together. So are Sulley and Mike in MONSTERS INC. In fact, Mike had a girlfriend. :rolleyes: TLK is a wonderful film!

[la_reina]

Yeah, I have a really close friend and we're always hanging out together...does that make us lesbian??? Good Lord...:rolleyes:

[IchLiebeNALA]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
I was in the library today, thumbing through a book about how racism, discrimination, and other nasty topics in Disney movies are teaching children bad concepts about life. Intrigued at how Disney animation could possibly be accused of such a thing, I immediately flipped to the index and searched for the "L" section. Yup, there it was- a link to two whole pages about how TLK is sending the wrong message to a juvenile audience.

It said that TLK is portraying a male-dominant society, as most of the characters are male and all of the leaders (Kings) who are in charge of the kingdom are of course male. The females all take minor roles (there is no song about being anxious about being queen, this book was so cheerful to notice), and even when Scar is in charge, they are obedient and do the master's bidding. The book ALSO points the fingers at the hyenas and says they are portrayed as Hispanics, and that since the hyenas are at the bottom of the food chain and neglected that TLK is being racial too. Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).

Do any of you believe this? I have a real hard time. These are the same people who discriminate against Sesame Street because almost all the puppets are male. *sigh*

totat bullsh*t. for crying out loud, it's a disney film. and the aim of a disney film is to provide all family entertainment. and that is exactly what TLK does. there will always be some sad, pathetic losers who will spend their time writing useless crap like that trying to put across a point that totally eliminates the point they are trying to put across.

People in the world today are DYING becuase of their religon, and this author has nothing to say about the REAL issue in the world than writing about how this stuff is portrayed in a FICTIONAL MOVIE.

my advice to him: GO DO SOMETHING USEFUL WITH YOUR LIFE. SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEMS, AND HELP PEOPLE.

</rant>

[2 Die FR]

I know, fellas. I scoffed really loud when I read that, and you know libraries are rather quiet places; a few people gave me funny looks. But that sort of stuff just disgusts me.

[lionloversam]

I don't blame you for scoffing loudly, I heard that kind of stuff before but don't believe it. I also heard that TLK teaches kids Islamic belifs. Don't belive that either.

[unregistered user]

That's their point of view. Perverted thoughts come from perverted minds.

[simba2662]

All I can say is that these people accuseing kids cartoon movies of racism and gender issues have to much time on their hands. They should be commenting on how strong the relationships are between friends, regardless if there male or female. The movie would go off track if you introduced partners for timon and pumba. As for the hyenas well thats just ridiculous.

[Sombolia]

LOL.

So.. male dominant society? Yeah, it should've been King Sarabi and Queen Mufasa.

Racism.. how the heck do you connect hyenas to hispanics? And even so, if I were Mufasa, I'd be mad at ANYONE who attacked my son, regardless of race, gender, etc..?

And Timon and Pumbaa.. what a load of crap. Me and my (female) neighbor are TOTALLY having a sexual relationship, because we talk to eachother everyday and we hang out together all the time. Thanks for telling me that, I never knew!

:p On the whole, that book just makes me laugh... :lol:

[unregistered user]

:rolleyes:

[2 Die FR]

Maybe I was lurking in the wrong section of the library...meh is starting to think.

[Sharifu]

A male-dominant society? Oh please. Just because there were minor females roles doesn't mean that. I thought Sarabi and Nala were quite strong and stood their ground in what they believed in. Just because their parts weren't as big as the males, doesn't mean that it was male-dominant society. Really this is so stupid.

[2 Die FR]

I think it's a good thing I didn't tell you guys the title- otherwise I think you'd be running to the nearest library and bookstore and rip 'em up to pieces.
I say, it disturbed me, but books have a right to say whatever the crap they want.

[lion_roog]

:haha:...I want to read this book!!!....I love comedies!!....:D

Hmm...The hyenas represent Hispanics???....Well, Bonzai did say "Que Pasa"...and Cheech is Mexican....It's so Obvious!!!....:D

[Mizani]

Male dominated society?

WELL DUH!!!!!!!!!
Its a lion pride for godsake!!!! Males are dominate in a lion Pride! (except when the females turn on the lion, but thats besides the point;))

[Lion King Stu]

can only say one thing...Burn the book of evil....BURN IT!!!!

Well that was ever so slightly amusing to read. Why do people have to write such crap about a great animated film.

[unregistered user]

Why do people have to write so much crap. :idiot:

[King Simba]

I don't really believe in any of this that was mentioned in that book. To me, it's a load of rubbish. Things like that shouldn't be wrote about such an awesome animated film.

:grrr:

[Lion King Stu]

Originally posted by Ravoc
Why do people have to write so much crap. :idiot:
because they are bored, have no g/f or b/f, don't get out much, have cravings for cheese:lol: etc.
does that help Uka ;) sure that fuels the crap

[King Simba]

...or cos' they have no job and don't have anything else better to do with themselves. :idiot:

About it I think.

[Sombolia]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
I think it's a good thing I didn't tell you guys the title- otherwise I think you'd be running to the nearest library and bookstore and rip 'em up to pieces.


Do you seriously think someone'd do that? :idiot:

[IchLiebeNALA]

i'd go and read it to see for myself what a load of crap it is :D

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Sombolia
Do you seriously think someone'd do that? :idiot:

*raises hand*.....What?!..I love fire...The sun is my hero...and I'm a Leo, the Sun sign....:D

[IchLiebeNALA]

Originally posted by lion_roog
and I'm a Leo, the Sun sign....:D

i thought it was a lion? *shrugs*

ah well. i'm gemini BTW ;)

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Roquivo
Then you might as well acuse real life lion prides of the same thing, because that is what it is based on. Besides, haven't all America's presidents and vice presidents, and all England's Prime Ministors been male?

Margaret Thatcher!

And also, w-t-f? If anyone's gay in The Lion King, it's Scar. :evilgrin:

[cleargreenwater]

I don't know how militant that book you saw was so I'm leery about saying I agree with what it says, but I agree that the theoretical issues mentioned are present in the movie, they are present in every childrens' production if someone's inclined to think about it.

About male dominance/patriarchy, there's a link on lk.org to an article exploring it in detail (tho a bit critical if I remember right,), and as for sexuality & gender identity in the movie, Brian Tiemann wrote a well-thought essay. Regarding racism & the hyenas, someone commented in a different topic on this very board that "TLK1's 'lion vs hyena' had somewhat racist undertones if you think about it..." so the idea isn't that far-fetched & unheard of.

Does any of it decrease my love of the movie? Absolutely not.
I can say irrevocably that I wouldn't have taken a single Women's Studies class (yes, there's a college cirriculum for this sort of thing,) if Disney hadn't given me strong female role-models at a critical age in the characters of Sarabi & Nala & Shenzi.

I think the benefits of TLK far, far outweigh any theoretical intellectual calls to heap hell-fire & damnation on it.

--CGW, life-less feminist.

[Iestyn]

Originally posted by Nephilim
Margaret Thatcher!
Beat me to it ;)

[Atimon]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).


*lol* Oy, the old Timon-and-Pumbaa-are-gay-theory. Like most of you said, then for example I should be also homosexual as soon as I'm hangin' around with my friends. Hey, I'm not a man, but there exist very good friendships between men as between women. You do everything together, you have fun (not talking about THAT fun) together - and that alone makes you homosexual?! :thinks: Didn't know that, thanks for the information!
I have nothing against homosexual people so even if they in fact were homosexual, I wouldn't mind being a Timon-Fan, but that idea is just...sick.
I mean, there are a few hints that could make people come up with that idea. First of all and I think that might be the reason Timon is always thrown in this drawer, is because of his voice actor, Nathan Lane. As far as I know he is indeed homosexual and since Timon like all the other TLK characters was supposed to be based on his voice actor's guestures, facial expressions etc. it is no wonder that some people might indeed say hey, then this meerkat might be homosexual as well. I think Nathan also even said somwhere that Timon and Pumbaa might be the first homosexual cartoon couple - or was it Pumbaa's voice actor? argh, doesn't matter - but hello? that was supposed to be a little joke, nothing to build a theory on.
Watching TLK I only see two best buddies who have found out that they share the same interests, enjoy living in the jungle and have fun together. And that they would help each other no matter what was also clearly seen when Timon tries to rescue Pumbaa when he's attacked by Nala.
What is indeed quite interesting is the fact that Disney somehow 'reacted' on that theory, at least I think so...I once got a scan from a children's book which another Timonfan sent to me where Timon is actually calling Pumbaa 'lover-boy' when he starts a little 'speech' to contradict Pumbaa and in one of the House of Mouse episodes, I think it must be the one that is even called "Timon and Pumbaa", he calls him a similar name (I only know it in german and there it was indeed a 'pet name'). And of course T&P episodes where Timon wants to marry himself because he was hit by an arrow by Amour and many other little scenes now and then could be speaking for T&P being homosexual - but I cannot find any of those signs in TLK, sorry. It is a movie for children and I think only adults could come up with such stupid theories because they have nothing else to do. And all in all they always portrayed Timon as well as Pumbaa being interested in females, you can find that in the episodes, comics and stories - so for me personally those other scenes from which you could suggest that they might be homosexual are just jokes by Disney, maybe even based on that stupid theory of them being gay.
I can only see just two best buddies who may have lived isolated and together for many years, but who are friends who are always there for each other and who are all in all just a funny duo and the best friends imaginable for little Simba :cheese:

[Kago]

Originally posted by 2 Die FR
I was in the library today, thumbing through a book about how racism, discrimination, and other nasty topics in Disney movies are teaching children bad concepts about life. Intrigued at how Disney animation could possibly be accused of such a thing, I immediately flipped to the index and searched for the "L" section. Yup, there it was- a link to two whole pages about how TLK is sending the wrong message to a juvenile audience.

It said that TLK is portraying a male-dominant society, as most of the characters are male and all of the leaders (Kings) who are in charge of the kingdom are of course male. The females all take minor roles (there is no song about being anxious about being queen, this book was so cheerful to notice), and even when Scar is in charge, they are obedient and do the master's bidding. The book ALSO points the fingers at the hyenas and says they are portrayed as Hispanics, and that since the hyenas are at the bottom of the food chain and neglected that TLK is being racial too. Lastly, it accuses Timon and Pumbaa being homosexual, being that they are two guys hanging out with each other (the book also mentioned Sulley and Mike from Monsters, INC. about the same thing).

Do any of you believe this? I have a real hard time. These are the same people who discriminate against Sesame Street because almost all the puppets are male. *sigh*


People make assumptions and this quote is packed with them. The people assumed that just because Timon and Pumbaa (and Sully and Mike) hang out together and are best friends means that the creators are promoting homosexuality. They assume that just because it focuses more on men than women they think it's discrimination of the sexes when in reality there is only 1 male lion (the King) and all the others are females because any male offspring forms their own pride at a young adult age. They assume that just because the hyenas are, as they say, hispanics and are being neglected and at the bottom of the food chain that Disney's being racial, they would have said the same if they were potrayed as Asian, the hyenas played a minor role in the original and in TLK 1 1/2 because it focuses on lions. They assume that Disney considers women inferior to men because they listen to Scar when in reality he's the only male left after Simba runs away, who's supposed to be the king then? Remember "assume nothing" and "trust no one" (had to add that for some reason). Mainly "assume nothing" cause as Grissom put it in a CSI book "when we assume and are wrong we make an *** of you and me" and they assumed and were wrong, half of the stuff they were wrong about is on an Imax about lions and in a research book.

[Melody of Scar]

I did hear rumors that Simba's Pride was primarily created to disprove theories that Scar was gay...

I don't remember where I got that from though. :thinks:

[Huma]

well, in the greatest project I've ever heard of raising all children in the world to be absolutly unbiased, perfectly neutral and entirely unsympathetic young man, this essay have a just point of view...

[Huma]

Originally posted by Melody of Scar
I did hear rumors that Simba's Pride was primarily created to disprove theories that Scar was gay...

I don't remember where I got that from though. :thinks:

If WD ever have such intention, The Madness of King Scar should've done it before the SP. In my eyes, WD care much more about money than Scar's reputation

[Sombolia]

MoS, seriously? You mean.. if Scar were gay.. they never would have made SP..?

....

*slaps Scar* Why are you heterosexual, darnit! ;P

[Huma]

Originally posted by SimbaTheLion
I wouldn't use the phrase "Guilty of homosexuality" at all... there's nothing guilty about being homosexual. I don't believe that Disney have made Timon and Pumbaa gay, although it would be nice if they were hehe :lol: ;) ...

Yeah, and why necessarily should feeling of guiltiness be a bad thing after all:evilgrin:

[Nephilim]

One day I shall make a thread called "Is TLK Guilty of Your Mum?" and see how much f_w it causes.

[Melody of Scar]

Originally posted by Sombolia
MoS, seriously? You mean.. if Scar were gay.. they never would have made SP..?

....

*slaps Scar* Why are you heterosexual, darnit! ;P

xD

I don't know if it's even remotely true. Although, it'd be cool as sin. :jejeje: Pride! XD

[Nalinda]

That is just bullsh*t.

[This Land]

why the hell do we want to talk about this in a film, its a film, a brilliant one too, why criticise it ??? :grrr:

[unregistered user]

TLK is a disgusting cartoon version of soft porn, and should be banned! :grrr:

[Nalinda]

What, Phantom? :confused:

[Melody of Scar]

I think he was being sarcastic... :confused:

And I wasn't attacking TLK for anything... So I don't know why you both're getting huffy about it. x.x Scar + being gay = awesome. :jejeje:

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by This land
why the hell do we want to talk about this in a film, its a film, a brilliant one too, why criticise it ??? :grrr:

Because differences of opinions make the world interesting.

[Sombolia]

Originally posted by This land
why the hell do we want to talk about this in a film, its a film, a brilliant one too, why criticise it ??? :grrr:

Not everyone thinks it's brilliant.. and critisism isn't always bad...


Originally posted by Melody of Scar
Scar + being gay = awesome. :jejeje:

Totally. xD

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by PhantomBPR
TLK is a disgusting cartoon version of soft porn,

:haha:...Why do you think I love it....:p

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by PhantomBPR
TLK is a disgusting cartoon version of soft porn, and should be banned! :grrr:
or maybe you the first one who should be banned ;)

[Katse]

*shakes head*

Seriously, this person who wrote that book is just another one of those morons who doesn't have a life and is trying to degrade Disney. Tons of people try to do it.

If this author thinks that TLK is sexist, then he most likely doesn't know a freakin' thing about real lions.

Being Hispanic, myself, I find it offending that this author even had the slightest idea of TLK being racist towards Hispanics. Just because Banzai is voiced by a Mexican, he assumes that TLK is racist towards Hispanics?*raises eyebrow* No. Just no.

I'm getting sick of hearing about the whole gay Disney characters thing. So what if they're two guys living together? Ever heard of a bachelor pad?


I'm sure if I read this book, it'd have a reference going all the way back to Song of the South and claiming how racist it was.-_-

Oh, and I think Phantom was being sarcastic, peoples.;)

[jazonhyena]

Where I agree that the theories presented in the book mentioned are mostly bunk, I must say I believe it's rather unfair and absolutist to then react by assuming that anyone who thinks about children's movies as having undertones and messages is a fool who wastes his and everyone's time.

At this point it's probably apparent that I'm one of those fools =P

But, seriously, I do believe that The Lion King sends mixed messages to children and, I would argue, the wrong messages at that. I know this on a personal basis; I recieved them (And I'd like to mention it's unfair to dismiss this by saying "Well you recieved them; you must just be crazy; the rest of us are sane because we didn't recieve them." Because it does not disprove my theory that they -exist-, and also, being an ad-hominem thing to say, is very poor form in a debate).

There exists in the movie a set political climate reflecting one that we in the real world experienced years ago, as most of you are readily aware: that of the Western World, pre-WWII. As most everyone knows, the lions represent America/Britain (or just the Allies in general), the hyenas are the downtrodden masses of Germany, and Scar is Hitler incarnate. This is proven by the scene during Be Prepared which, as a TLK animator (I believe it was) admitted, was created to echo a scene an actual Nazi march film.

So we must at least admit that deeper things are being transmitted than merely what we literally see; references are being made to the real world, if only to aid the older viewers in getting an idea of what is going on (since it is easier to explain through analogy that the hyenas have chosen Scar as their "Strong Leader", and we already know what this means because it happened way back when). This being proven, it no longer seems ridiculous to suggest that undertones are being transmitted- to children? No, to everybody who watches. It's not subliminal advertizing; it's just undertones.

When one makes a connection to the real world in a fantasy setting, one creates the responsibility of remaining consistent with said connection. In other words, it could be argued that, after having established the hyenas as Nazi Germany and Scar as Hitler, the movie should deal with them appropriately in accordance with what happened in real life. Now, this is not necessarily true, but it helps guard against broken analogies.

Anyways, that is my stance on the issue. I do not believe at all that someone who looks for deeper or subtle significance in a fantasy movie is a fool or is wasting anybody's time. It is necessary to analyze that which we trust, lest we fail to uncover something REALLY serious. I can say this, at least: The Lion King succeeded in providing fuel for the fire of an entire generation of people brainwashed to think that hyenas are stupid, slobbering dogs who are pathetic last-links in the bottom of the food chain. I know because everyone I spoke to from highschool up about the animal expressed their disdain WHILE CITING The Lion King. It has been a long-standing superstition that hyenas are bad luck, or sneaky creatures, but never before this movie have so many people thought of them with actual disgust. They're an animal, people; and every bit as worthy of your respect as the lions which you love so dearly. Be fair.

[Katse]

Heil Scar!:ayecapn:

That's a much better undertone than the racist claim. Things like that just happen. Animators are storytellers. Storytellers base what their stories are about of real life and the imagination. I can very well see that that was the reference the animators were going for.

About hyenas being degraded the way they are, I feel the same way. However, the movie was mainly to be from a lion's point of view, and lions and hyenas are mortal enemies in real life. That's why I can see why they made the hyenas in TLK turn out the way they did.

[jazonhyena]

Yes, I agree; it seems the simplest way of telling the story. Still, I personally think children could've handled the idea that "the hyenas aren't necessarily the idiot bad guys," at the same time without missing the appeal of the movie. Who knows, maybe it might've been good for them. I don't know as I am not a child pyschologist. All I know is, I don't think things need to be oversimplified for children in the way of good guys vs. bad guys. My favorite cartoon when I was little (The Raccoons) did little to distinguish those two forces; the main antagonist was shown to have a very well-rounded personality and his own soft spots.

Anyways, I just think it's a shame the way people think of hyenas these days and that it's almost all due to The Lion King. I believe some will disagree with me here, some perhaps only because of their love for the movie and their refusal to admit that it had negative reprocusions, but I'm basing this on personal experience-- Every time I hear somebody calling them stupid, suggesting they are worthless animals and even call them names I probably can't post here, along the lines of "wuss" (how can an -animal- be wussy??), they cite TLK as their reference. I try to explain that they're wrong, but they believe the movie, being a Disney masterpiece, is the end-all-be-all. And I know someone will say, "Don't worry about them, they're just idiots who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy anyways," But the problem is, these "idiots" are -everywhere- and are, in fact, the majority of people I've met. They are not the minority.

In closing, I'd personally love to see the movie from the eyes of a hyena. Hey, they did it for Timon =)

[Katse]

Yeah, that's just what happens when a movie is made with a plot like that, going against a certain group of people. It's just one of those facts of life. I know those "idiots" are everywhere, I deal with them everyday, too. I just choose to ignore it the best I can. If it can't be helped, it can't be helped.

Although, one of my pet peeves is when they say that hyenas are dogs.X( They're related to MONGOOSES, dangit![/outburst]

[jazonhyena]

Yeah, and that's a point that wasn't even presented in the movie! X-P

You just can't trust people with -anything-, not even a kid's movie 9_9

[Katse]

This kind of thing is just what makes the world so messed up now....:rolleyes:

[Sombolia]

I agree, hyenas aren't stupid or anything in real life, and it's stupid when people say that. Alot of people claim that they're lazy, stupid, worthless, etc.. and because they steal food from lions. Actually, more often then not, lions steal food from them.

That probably didn't make any sense. Alas.

[unregistered user]

I agree that the hyenas are frowned upon a bit too much. Though I won't say that they'r emy favorite animals. I will say that no animal IRL is evil; including the misjudged hyena.

I see an irony in this though..

People hated, and I mean HATED the germans for the things that Hitler and the gov't were doing. But what they fail to realize is that the Germans didn't really have a say in it after a certain point. That and a lot of them didn't know of the Holocaust that was happening all around them, the allies didn't know it either till the end of the war when they began discovering more and more concentration camps.

Now if you were regarding the hyenas as the general German populace, then I see something quite ironic. People hated/hate Germany and its people for what they did, but a good share of folks there didn't know what was going on. They just knew their country was winning the war which was a great thing for them.

But see, the hyenas are looked down upon just as the German populace was/possibly still is by some. A bit intriguing I must say. Or perhaps its just me who sees that additional connection? :E

[jazonhyena]

I'm a Germanophile meself :3

Berlin is a lovely city today...although one guy in a souvenier shop took it upon himself to lecture my parents and I on how we and our country are evil and stupid (quite literally) after we bought bier steins from his shop. Yell at the tourists, that'll bode well for business =O

[ThiagoPE]

In the brasilian version, have a controversy:

In the last speech of scar when the hyenas are going to eat him, he say 9in portuguese) "I did not said that" but in the way he tallks, our eras hear more clean than what it really say "Im gay"

I made a audio cuting the affects of the scenes to show people for them take thei own conclusions, but some still thinks they say "im gay"

If there have some portuguese speaker can try it http://files.thpe.net/Thiago/oscarnaoebicha.mp3

[Kiara Serengeti]

Originally posted by ThiagoPE
In the brasilian version, have a controversy:

In the last speech of scar when the hyenas are going to eat him, he say 9in portuguese) "I did not said that" but in the way he tallks, our eras hear more clean than what it really say "Im gay"

I made a audio cuting the affects of the scenes to show people for them take thei own conclusions, but some still thinks they say "im gay"

If there have some portuguese speaker can try it http://files.thpe.net/Thiago/oscarnaoebicha.mp3

He he...well, some people do think Scar is gay, though I don't see why.

[Sombolia]

Originally posted by ThiagoPE
In the brasilian version, have a controversy:

In the last speech of scar when the hyenas are going to eat him, he say 9in portuguese) "I did not said that" but in the way he tallks, our eras hear more clean than what it really say "Im gay"

I made a audio cuting the affects of the scenes to show people for them take thei own conclusions, but some still thinks they say "im gay"

If there have some portuguese speaker can try it http://files.thpe.net/Thiago/oscarnaoebicha.mp3

*snort* Riiight. That's like when some people thought Rafiki was saying "Squashed banana up your arse" *rolls eyes*

Yeah, I can see that. "Don't eat me - I'm gay!"

[Melody of Scar]

I like to think Scar is gay, just because that'd make me really happy. :evilgrin:

But I heard it as a rumor about the time Simba's Pride came out - I don't know for sure where that originated, but I know that it's still circulating on some forums I've looked at. I think it was because of his facial expressions in Be Prepared and how he acted in some scenes.

But that could just be me - I haven't heard proof to back the statement up, besides "THAT WOULD BE SO COOL!" ^^

[lionloversam]

:confused: When did scar say, "That would be so cool" ? *Haven't watched TLK in a while*

[Bahati]

I believe MoS' quote was that of a statement made by some anonymous forum-goer in reaction to the suggestion that Scar may be gay, not a quote of Scar himself.

[Kiara Serengeti]

The Nazi thing is ALWAYS apparent to me in TLK. The goose stepping scene in Be Prepared is obviously supposed to suggest Nazis\Hitler to older audiences. Then I learned on the History Channel (I was bored) that Hitler had a nephew--who was intent on bringing down his horrible schemes. Hmm. I know that part of TLK was based on Hamlet, but I thought that twist in the Hitler Story was amusing too

[unregistered user]

well i read this article and..
what..???... come on. it's just a cartoon with some good moral in it.
timon and pumbaa is homosexual? nahh.. they just say to the kids..
friends are forever. About Man Dominant - Man Should play a important keyrole and the female is the supporter.
Hyenas is Hispanics?.. err. Que Pasa.. we all know that Cheech Marin is a Mexican.
i can't understand why those guy waste time, money, ideas on some crap?...

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Fendi
About Man Dominant - Man Should play a important keyrole and the female is the supporter.


I wouldn't mind a little more female domination....if you know what I mean...But then she would have to make me breakfast...:D

[unregistered user]

:p roog
:lol: let the man do the cooking and female is the err.. head of the house:p

[la_reina]

Originally posted by Fendi

:lol: let the man do the cooking and female is the err.. head of the house:p

Um...unless the guy is an actual cook, I'd rather not put my life on the line...or my kids' :eww: :bleen:

[lion_roog]

What?...A man cook?!.....Well, I can make a grilled cheese sandwich that's pretty awesome...:D

[la_reina]

So can my 12-year-old brother :bleen:

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by la_reina
So can my 12-year-old brother :bleen:

Oh yeah...can he toast it to the perfect tint of brown...where the cheese is the perfect ammount and do it in five minutes?...:D

I also like to make pies...:p...like Chocolate pie, Banana pie, American pie, Oreo Cookie pie...:D

[la_reina]

Did you say...pie...? :emo:
Yeah, well, I bet you use the Ready-In-Five-Minutes-So-That-It-Tastes-Like-Crap Kit :p

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by la_reina
Did you say...pie...? :emo:
Yeah, well, I bet you use the Ready-In-Five-Minutes-So-That-It-Tastes-Like-Crap Kit :p

:haha:...No...I also love to make brownies...I add a certian ingredient that gives the brownies a lot more moisture so that they are softer..but yet, not too soft...:D

[Shadow]

all that is bull****.....i never heard anything abut it....funny thing is that they dont even mengtion that "sex" massage they have bin naging on abut "

[Sadiki]

I don't know if that is the really the message TLK is sending, I mean how many of you have even notice that or thought about that in that movie males are in dominant part or Timon and Pumbaa are gay couple or something? I don't think too many of you. it just is like that, Pride leader is male, most of the characters are males because it just works that way better I think because of personalities they have... so I don't know what they are trying to say in that book but I disagree with them quite a lot.

[DarkPaw]

Yeah, well, SNOW WHITE is sexist! The mom rules the house! :lol: I wanna' read that book :)

[unregistered user]

From the first post on here [2 die fr] I'd say that this is something I've seen before by DC Comics or another. An inquiry about Wonder Woman was sent forth, and seeing how she had no male partner or something, she was obviously gay. Well, that's the media for you. Out to twist it, and are always looking little nooks and cranies to get in and make a MOUNTAIN out of. I say no bad views were being sent. Men are above Females. It's always been the way. We could get deeply into it, but I trust all of you understand. And, all my RealLife true friends, are male therefore I'm accused of being a ***** or shunned away by some because they assume I'm in love with the person, because he's the opposit sex. I have discovered, that no matter what you do, someone either agrees, someone either doesn't give a monkeys patoot, or someone either disagrees and wants to start something. I think this issue is a minor bump in the road for TLK :cheese: Like all problems in one's life.

[lion_roog]

Utora's thread reminds me of an interesting point...It's kinda one sided how a man can have sex with a bunch of women and be labeled a Playa, yet he is praised and looked up to....Yet a woman can have sex with a bunch of men and be labeled a slut, and be shunned from society.

[mirta]

a biiiiig pile of bull ****

they are lions man!! ofcorse the males are leaders!!!!animal gay, yeah, right, and like the kids would notice that, bull ****. they have no females miles around, so what they are gonna do? and ofcorse they will listen to Scar, he is the leader

stupid people...tipical

[Ralli]

Y'know, I agree with what everyone has said so far...except...I think Timon and Pumbaa are homosexual. :hehe: Namely because of hints I got by myself.


Though I just recently found out that in '94, Nathan and Ernie said in an interview with The New York Times that Timon and Pumbaa were gay..:


Actors Ernie Sabella and Nathan Lane said in a New York Times interview that the characters they played (Timon, the meerkat, and Pumbaa, the wart hog) in THE LION KING are "the first homosexual Disney characters ever to come to the screen...." -NY Times, 6/12/94


I haven't been able to access the article itself. I went to The New York Times's website, and evidently I have to pay a subscription to read certain articles, including that one. As much as I'd like to see proof that my assumption was right, I'm not willing to pay to see.


Though even without that, I'd have still thought they were gay...I would until one of the members working on the movie said otherwise... xD;

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Ralli


Actors Ernie Sabella and Nathan Lane said in a New York Times interview that the characters they played (Timon, the meerkat, and Pumbaa, the wart hog) in THE LION KING are "the first homosexual Disney characters ever to come to the screen...." -NY Times, 6/12/94




NY Times = Media. Don't trust the Media. Ever. Yes they can be right but if you place your faith in them, pbbbbbt you mine as well go place your head in a sewer and plant navigation from there.


Alot of boys are "close" friends at my church and school. they go camping, ATVing, Xbox Live, School, everything together. They're not gay. Maybe Ernie Sabella and Nathan Lane said that they and/or the characters Timon and Pumbba were gay, but they aren't the director/creator of The Lion King, now are they? :evilgrin:

[Timon Berkowitz]

It's not the people who voice the characters that make them gay. It's the creators that make the characters gay.

[Ralli]

Originally posted by Utora
NY Times = Media. Don't trust the Media. Ever. Yes they can be right but if you place your faith in them, pbbbbbt you mine as well go place your head in a sewer and plant navigation from there.


Alot of boys are "close" friends at my church and school. they go camping, ATVing, Xbox Live, School, everything together. They're not gay. Maybe Ernie Sabella and Nathan Lane said that they and/or the characters Timon and Pumbba were gay, but they aren't the director/creator of The Lion King, now are they? :evilgrin:



*shrug* Actually, I know nothing about the NY Times. Never in my life have I read any other magazine besides those that are about cats or dogs. It was an easy mistake on my part, since I could care less about the media.


And yes, I know Ernie and Nathan aren't the directors of TLK. :growl: Don't take me as an idiot (I am one, but I don't like people making that even MORE obvious). I took it from them because even though the writers and directors create the characters, it's often the voice actors that give them the most of the personality and, needless to say, bring it to life. I've read in a making-of article about TLK 1 1/2 that the voice actors get some say in how the characters act or respond.


Personally, I don't think Timon and Pumbaa were created to be gay. They were made as buddies. I think the whole gay thing just happened, and isn't really considered...'canon', I guess you could say. And I doubt the directors would say they are. xD; TLK already has the whole 'S-E-X in the clouds' issue being forever shoved at them, among other issues.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Ralli
Personally, I don't think Timon and Pumbaa were created to be gay. They were made as buddies. I think the whole gay thing just happened, and isn't really considered...'canon', I guess you could say.

It seems when 2 male cartoon characters are paired, for some reason they end up being homosexual. What's funny is, even if they were, hypothetically: nearly all cartoon characters are anatomically incorrect in the first place to begin with.

So, if that's the dilemma, how would they engage?

[Ralli]

Originally posted by SoniqueX
It seems when 2 male cartoon characters are paired, for some reason they end up being homosexual. What's funny is, even if they were, hypothetically: nearly all cartoon characters are anatomically incorrect in the first place to begin with.

So, if that's the dilemma, how would they engage?



*shrug* Love isn't just the physical...pleasure. Nala and Simba are 'anatomically incorrect', also, if you're going along with the lack of...some organs...so where'd Kiara pop up from? (...the stork!) Not to mention that, if you were going along with natural terms, only humans and dolphins mate for pleasure, and warthogs and meerkats wouldn't hang out, lions wouldn't be raised by either one, hyenas would make an alliance with a lion, animals don't sing and dance...*ramble*


And I've never considered any other male 'duos' to be homosexual. o_o;; Besides Timon and Pumbaa. And I'd like to emphasize that I just like the pairing, I don't really think they're in love in any of the TLK movies, I don't think they're really a couple, but I still think they're gay. *shrug* Though I'm open to Timon/OC, Pumba/OC pairings.


To add: I really, really don't want to "discuss" this. I'm not going to change anyone's mind, no one is going to change my mind. As immature as it sounds, I get upset when "debating". No matter how much I believe my opinion. It's just how I am. It's not because I'm an oversensitive, egotistic baby who thinks she's right and everyone else is wrong; I believe it goes along with this disorder I have. And the last thing I am is egotistical. I'm actually very self-degrading.


People say "You shouldn't be on the Internet if you don't have a thick skin" and I agree. But I'm on the Internet not to debate, but to share my interests with others. HENCE why I am here at all. The whole reason why I got on a computer years ago was so that I could find other people who liked musicals, animated movies, drawing, etc. On this topic, I had pointed out an opinion of mine, but I had no intention of debating it.


Off-Topicness: Your icon was drawn by VanillaKitsune from Suta-Raito Advanced Oekaki, wasn't it? I'm an administrator there.

[nathalie]

Originally posted by Ralli
*shrug* Love isn't just the physical...pleasure. Nala and Simba are 'anatomically incorrect', also, if you're going along with the lack of...some organs...so where'd Kiara pop up from? (...the stork!) Not to mention that, if you were going along with natural terms, only humans and dolphins mate for pleasure, and warthogs and meerkats wouldn't hang out, lions wouldn't be raised by either one, hyenas would make an alliance with a lion, animals don't sing and dance...*ramble*



That's why it's called "a movie" ... a move makes it able to let imagination run free :cheese: *cheese*

[Katse]

I'm so flippin' meticulous.:idiot: Ralli, there have actually been documentations of meerkats and warthogs being together. It's a kind of symbiotic relationship. The meerkat grooms the warthog on occasion. This gives the warthog a parasite free pelt and the meerkat a free meal. Maybe the creators of T&P saw that and took it a step further.*shrugs and sits back in corner*

[Ralli]

Originally posted by Katse
I'm so flippin' meticulous.:idiot: Ralli, there have actually been documentations of meerkats and warthogs being together. It's a kind of symbiotic relationship. The meerkat grooms the warthog on occasion. This gives the warthog a parasite free pelt and the meerkat a free meal. Maybe the creators of T&P saw that and took it a step further.*shrugs and sits back in corner*


Ah, really? I didn't know that (obviously xD; ).


Tell me when you see documentations of lions and other animals singing and dancing. :p

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Ralli
And I've never considered any other male 'duos' to be homosexual. o_o;; Besides Timon and Pumbaa. And I'd like to emphasize that I just like the pairing, I don't really think they're in love in any of the TLK movies, I don't think they're really a couple, but I still think they're gay. *shrug* Though I'm open to Timon/OC, Pumba/OC pairings.


To add: I really, really don't want to "discuss" this. I'm not going to change anyone's mind, no one is going to change my mind. As immature as it sounds, I get upset when "debating". No matter how much I believe my opinion. It's just how I am. It's not because I'm an oversensitive, egotistic baby who thinks she's right and everyone else is wrong; I believe it goes along with this disorder I have. And the last thing I am is egotistical. I'm actually very self-degrading.

So... you like Timon & Pumbaa, but you just think they're gay, m'kay, interesting... And also you don't like to "debate" any. First off, I wasn't trying to debate much really, as like you said, "state an opinion" and pretty much leave it like that. Well- you can only go as in so far with that before it becomes a debate. But I'm stopping here with this Timon/Pumbaa opinion/debate thing.

Now - there's no need to get so offensive, Ralli. I realize you had a quick burst of emotions, but it's not that big of a deal.

Believe me, I understand where you are coming from, though.

=)

[Ralli]

Originally posted by SoniqueX
So... you like Timon & Pumbaa, but you just think they're gay, m'kay, interesting... And also you don't like to "debate" any. First off, I wasn't trying to debate much really, as like you said, "state an opinion" and pretty much leave it like that. Well- you can only go as in so far with that before it becomes a debate. But I'm stopping here with this Timon/Pumbaa opinion/debate thing.

Now - there's no need to get so offensive, Ralli. I realize you had a quick burst of emotions, but it's not that big of a deal.

Believe me, I understand where you are coming from, though.

=)



:( Yea...sorry 'bout that...I'm really impulsive...and hypocritical...I'm working on fixing those... Thank you for not getting really angry at me- you would've had good reason to. Heh...I'm really embarrassed...I went and made myself look ridiculous again...meh, I'll just learn from it. :confused:

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Ralli
:( Yea...sorry 'bout that...I'm really impulsive...and hypocritical...I'm working on fixing those... Thank you for not getting really angry at me- you would've had good reason to. Heh...I'm really embarrassed...I went and made myself look ridiculous again...meh, I'll just learn from it. :confused:

We all get a bit frustrated sometimes. Emotions are a funny thing, especially when they generate themselves out of a perplexing level. Actually, the way you stated your opinions, it's nothing to be embarrassed about or feel ridiculous thereof. = )

"We are what we are."


:hugs:

[Waterfall]

Jeeze, it doesn't matter if Timon and Pumba are gay, they are still awsome... I dont think directors would care to say if they were, if they were, because it's okay to be gay now. It wouldn't be the same as having sex written. Besides, Timon looks hot in drag!

[Waterfall]

Well that didn't make sense... but hopefuly you understand. <3

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Waterfall
Timon looks hot in drag!

He doesn't need to be in drag to be hot. He just is... ; o ...

:D :cheese: :lol:

[edit] :knowdees: XD

[Roku]

This is crap.

Pure. Crap.


This is pure BS. And the biggest pile of it I have ever seen.

These people need to be dropped off a cliff.

That's all I have to say about that.

[DarkPaw]

Might I add that Bonobos are considered the most...sexually, or mating if that gets cut orientated animals on earth? Hehe, they start mating for pleasure, when they're bored, when the see food, and even same sex pairs come of it...um, yeah. Bye now!