Confusing Christianity?

[unregistered user]

Alrighty.. due to a thread that is bashing Christianity a bit, I decided to make a thread that might explain it a bit more for those that have questions. ^^ If you have questions you'd rather not post, then feel free to send me a PM.

I'm also curious as to how many Christians there are at Lea, and what denominations you are a part of. For anyone who may not know, denominations would be something like; Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Nazarene, Presbyterrean, Mormon, Pentecostal, etc... or if you don't have a denomination, then you'd be classified as non-denominational.

Anyway, there you have it ^^

[Nephilim]

Why are we being overran with religious threads so much nowadays? :p

[Katse]

First of all, I'm Catholic.

I'm actually getting sick of all the bashing of religion. Not all Christians are those wacko extremists, all right?*scampers off*

[unregistered user]

Well, I can't explain the other thread Neph, it still confuses me a bit. But myself and other Christians such as Katse for example may feel a bit attacked by a thread that bluntly states that they hate our religion. For a Christian, it would be like going up to a person who loves TLK and saying "I hate TLK, it sucks!" So.. there ya go ;)

[Nephilim]

... I wouldn't care if someone hated TLK, or anything else that I like. Purely because it makes no difference to my feelings and such. *shrugs*

[unregistered user]

That's good Neph :) But othe rpeople aren't so .. some people come to this place expecting friendliness and see that thread and feel a bit like they've been kicked in the face =P

I don't want Lea to be like that for people or myself. Thus, the religion thread came into existence :gasp: :p ^^

[ChildOfThePride]

I have a question...

If Satan and God are both powerful on the same level (that's what I've been told - God and Satan are equal in powers), why couldn't God get rid of my birth defect?

[unregistered user]

God and Satan are not equal in power, God is stronger than Satan and could easily get rid of him, but he works in mysterious ways.

Birth defects are a hard subject. Perhaps there's a reason why you have it, so that you can bring comfort perhaps to others who hav eit? To tell them that you know what they might be going through?

God has a special plan for all of his children, even the ones that claims he doesn't exist, but it's our choice if we follow that path or not. Maybe yours has something to do with your defect? Maybe something completely different.

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by ChildOfThePride
I have a question...

If Satan and God are both powerful on the same level (that's what I've been told - God and Satan are equal in powers), why couldn't God get rid of my birth defect?

Original sin?

And as Ravoc said, they are no way equal. ;)

[ChildOfThePride]

My church (that I used to go to) was wrong then...hm....

Thanks for answering mah question. :D

[unregistered user]

Sur ething, glad to help if I did :cheese:

[Tigris Of Gaul]

I'm Evangelical Lutheran, baptised, but I'm more a scientist than a humanist. In fact, way more.

I find it kind of funny, how you seem to aknowledge god being way more powerful than satan as facts. There's no proof of that - you only have your individual belief.

In all possibility, hell is stronger than heaven - and fire burns hotter than love. It might be that there is no peace or forgiveness. In fact, since there is no proof of this either, it's equally as possible as your presentation.

If you know what Karl Marx said about religions and people - that's the way I feel about them these days. Yah.

[unregistered user]

If bad was stronger than good, then why doesn't Satan just destroy God? Or why did he let Jesus die on the cross? Or why doesn't he invade Heaven and Earth? And how did God throw him out of Heaven?

[Tigris Of Gaul]

Well, to cut this short, I have a hard time believing in anything supernatural, such as ghosts, magic, gods and all that fall in the same category. Yet, I believe that everything is possible.

But to respond to those, well, as everything is possible, how could we know if Satan had destroyed God or visa-versa? Heaven and Earth cannot be linked together like that either, one is physical the other is a supposed non-physical/physical domain of divine. And yada-yada.

Oh well. =)

[unregistered user]

Hmm.. well Tigris, you're entitled to your beliefs just as I am mine =)

[Tigris Of Gaul]

*chuckles*

Of course, of course. Naturally I don't mean to sound hostile here. All information just needs to be questioned to make things more fun, as there's always the chance for things not being the way one would think. All is possible in this world gone wild.

Nice homepage, by the way. http://www.puuma.com/stuff/yes.gif

[unregistered user]

Ah, thanks Tigris for visiting my site ^^

And indeed, all information shoul dbe investigated

[lion_roog]

Sometimes bad is stronger than Good...and sometimes Good is stronger than bad. You have your works of Satan and your Works of God. Examples would be drugs destroying families and individuals, and people taking you in when you are homeless and giving a kidney so that someone may live.

[unregistered user]

Ah, yes, in the individual person bad can definitely be stronger than good Roog ;) I have no doubt of that at all *compares Hitler to Ghandi*

[IchLiebeNALA]

hmmmm, slight contrast there Ravoc

[unregistered user]

Just a small one Dan ;)

[Tigris Of Gaul]

Evil and Good .. they're relative and non-static, also not appliable outside human species.

You know.. back in the day, it was considered good and a wonderful a thing to do, if you slaughtered a person who you thought was a witch and burned him/her tied to a pole. Nowadays, that would be a deed of vile evil.

So, can you say a person is Evil is he/she -thinks- is doing the right thing? Hitler, Stalin, etc could've thought that they were doing the right, good thing. They didn't seek to do evil, but something that they considered good. We just generally don't agree with that, but that's all relative.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by IchLiebeNALA
hmmmm, slight contrast there Ravoc

And you Spelled "Gandhi" wrong...:p

It seems that when someone commits and act of evil, it affects 10 times as many people as an act of good.

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by Tigris Of Gaul

So, can you say a person is Evil is he/she -thinks- is doing the right thing? Hitler, Stalin, etc could've thought that they were doing the right, good thing. They didn't seek to do evil, but something that they considered good. We just generally don't agree with that, but that's all relative.

And it mentions that sin is not an absolute in the Bible when it is mentioned that Man will be judged based on his concious. So, a man may commit murder, but if he truely believes he was not committing a sin in his concious...then he is not committing a sin.

[unregistered user]

I believe that's because we're born into sin, which is evil. Thus it's easier for us to see the evil. That's a theory of my own though.

There's a difference between the false witches and Hitler though.. when the witches were tried it was because people of that day.. well.. they were stupid =P Someone could be called a witch for anything. Doctors might have even been considered witches.

Now Hitler and Stalin.. they did what they did and they knew what they were doing. When you kill someone on purpose, you're not doing what is right,y ou're doing what you, yourself believe to be right. There's a difference if you live by the Bible. Otherwise, no, there's no difference and there would be no reason to get rid of Hitler if there was no code of conduct *shrugs*

At leas tI think that is what you were speaking aobut :confused:

(Roog, I almost spelled it the correct way, but it didn't seem correct, xD )

[unregistered user]

Christianity (and many other religions are quite confusing, especially Christianity; due to its volume...) .

Religions are demanding, full of righteousness, and sometimes amoral. So much inconsistency and aspiring on consistency.

Religions are based on theological virtue, that's true to themselves. They shouldn't be appalled, they should be appeased, on what they've accomplished. Whether their moral is right or wrong. Religions can bring the strongest inchoatives thought possible, and could conceive the end of the Earth at the same time.

Religions are part of our balance, and their counterbalances as well. If we could all harmonize, just perhaps, a worldly unity just might form = ) .

[Xinithian]

I'm too burned out from bible this year, I think I'll take a break from religion for a while...

[Juniper]

To Everyone:

Who gives a damn what you believe? You're not faithful for someone else, you're religion or faith is up to you and belongs to you. So what if someone says they hate your beliefs? A good number of Christians say I'm going to Hell, even though I follow Christ. Well, good for them, I couldn't care less what they think, as long as they don't try to start something over it. (Which, by the way, usually happens).

[Banzai]

I've been born and raised Catholic by a Catholic dad. My mom is Protestant so I've also seen their side of things. I believe that as long as you truly believe in God and know that he's there for you then you can go to Heaven. In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you're Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, Orthodox, etc. Like I said before, as long as you believe, and try to make up for all of the sins that you have commited, then you can go to Heaven.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

[Azerane]

I was born into a Lutheran family so I was raised that way. My whole family is Lutheran. I almost find that to be a bit of a problem though, because lets just say that I wanted to change my denomination (not that I do, just using myself as an example) because I didn't agree with what the lutheran church stood for, it'd be hard because I'd have my whole lutheran family not being able to understand why and possibly not supporting me in my decision, even though they should value my opinion. Does is make sense what I'm trying to say? I'm not sure if it does or not.

I don't really understand why different christian demoninations argue so much over things, I mean yes, people believe slightly different things but we still believe in the same god so there's not really anything to argue about. And you can't mush all the different denominations together because then not everybody would be getting their needs met, which is why there are different denominations to support that.

I think Tigris of Gaul mentioned something about calling a person evil even if they think they're doing the right thing... People believe different things, everybody has been brought up differently so that influences their opinion on what is wrong and what is right. So basically a person who disagrees with what Hitler did could call him evil for everything that he did, but there may be another person out there who understands the reasons why he was doing it and agree with him, and he wouldn't think him evil. It is all a matter of opinion and how you view it. But because most people disagreed with what hitler did it was classed as being wrong and he was labled evil.

[nafklt]

I think it doesn't matter what someone belives in but there will always be more good than bad. Unless of course we are bad compared to some alien species and we haven't realized it yet...:P

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Azerane
So basically a person who disagrees with what Hitler did could call him evil for everything that he did, but there may be another person out there who understands the reasons why he was doing it and agree with him, and he wouldn't think him evil.

Yeah, I guess killing countless people would be a Breakfast at Tiffinay's Psychoville for someone to coincide with Adolf Hitler's sovereign power.

[Alli]

*Sigh* I wish we'd just stop with all the religious threads. We all have our own religions and we all have our own beliefs, i don't any of us really feel like changing our views so why argue about it...

[lion_roog]

Originally posted by pntbll248
To Everyone:

Who gives a damn what you believe? You're not faithful for someone else, you're religion or faith is up to you and belongs to you. So what if someone says they hate your beliefs? A good number of Christians say I'm going to Hell, even though I follow Christ. Well, good for them, I couldn't care less what they think, as long as they don't try to start something over it. (Which, by the way, usually happens).

Because if you don't give a damn, then you don't care...and if you don't care, then you can't learn. Discussion is the first step to understanding each other in the learning process.

[simba's girl]

I get people questioning my christianity all the time and I always say the best thing to do if you have questions is ask a minister or similar. A couple of the questions I've read in this thread are ones that I and many people wonder about. A few that I have some knowledge of are... God is definitely more powerful than Satan. Satan was originally an angel but turned away from God and became evil. He always tries to tempt us but God is ultimately more powerful. God doesn't make us do anything, he gives us free will to make our own decisions. Cos if he didn't give us that choice we would just become robots and all the same which is not what he wants, he's being pretty nice if you think about it! And someone was asking about Jesus and why God made him die on a cross. Jesus was born on the earth and told people about God while he was here, but by the time he was around 30, people started to question him, saying that it was wrong for him to say that he was the Son of God. So they crucified him horribly, God knew this was going to happen and it was a horrible experience for both (the Bible goes into detail about all this) but the reason it happened is because of you, and me. Jesus died on the cross, carried the weight of all the world's (our) sins so that after that, we could have the opportunity to ask for and receive forgiveness for those sins. If Jesus hadn't died on the cross we would never even have the option to turn to God and accept him then have eternal life in Heaven. It was a terrible price to pay but it just goes to show how much Jesus and God loved/do love us.

This is what I believe, and I know some people don't and that's ok, everyone is different. But if you have questions and I know there are so many! Its really good to ask a minister or church figure about it. I'm from a Baptist Church and the minister at my church is really great and explains things so well.

Anyway, I hope you don't think I was trying to preach here! I just thought I would give a shot at answering some questions I saw above...

[Lweek]

I belive in power which can be and is called as God, but I don't belive he's a human and I don't belive he prefer humans, it don't prefer probably anything.

Things which I don't like on religions are quite unlogical behaves and views to some aspects of life. Actualy Bible was wrote in time when plp needed a guide for help them solve their problems, but plp. didn't understand function of this book and use it as reason to start conflicts and wars. In my opinion, religion is useless and dangerous. Most important is open mind, be respectfull and help other beens to live their happy life. God do not want us be his slaves. He don't desire us going to church (if you don't visit church you are still it's child), he don't want for us deny sexual life because it's unnatural etc. There are many aspects which many religionists don't think about really deep. Bad needn't be bad and good needn't be good. Space don't include absolute truth. What is good for you couldn't be good for others .. Jin-Yang.

[SimbaLKD]

--Thread Closed?

Sorry people were not meant to argue and debate about religion here. This thread has been found inappropriate by a few moderators.

If you want to continue to discuss this please use a chat client. Thank you, and sorry agian.

[SimbaLKD]

--Thread Opened?



Lea has no policy agianst debates, but has one about
"..name-calling, put-downs or harassment of other Pride Members."

put-downs can be, in this case, talking bad about ones religion.. thats what the people who complained saw, and unpon investiagtion... its what i saw..

People take religion very serious, as for me, either way I don't care what anyone has to say about religion, simply because I'm not religious.. so dont mistake the fact that I closed the threads as something personal..

However, some good points have been brought up that i cannot ignore and the threads are to be opened immedelity.. however the "and now I hate christianity" thread is going to be renamed to "christianity viewpoint".

[Juniper]

Originally posted by simba's girl
This is what I believe, and I know some people don't and that's ok, everyone is different. But if you have questions and I know there are so many! Its really good to ask a minister or church figure about it. I'm from a Baptist Church and the minister at my church is really great and explains things so well.

In my personal beliefs, I consider a minister/priest/monk/whoever at the same level as any other Christian and thus it is up to the individual to make decisions for themselves. I do realize that many priests go to college and study theology, and should be given a bit of credence for that, but not for religious reasons. That's just me though.

[unregistered user]

Well, if there are any other questions I or one of the others i'ms ure would be happy to answer them =) After all, that is what this thread is about. ^^

[Juniper]

Being a fairly liberal follower of Christ, I'll explain that side if anyone has any questions also ;)

[unregistered user]

I being a Catholic have no questions, I firmly belive that God exists, he has shown himself to me in many ways (I've prayed and things got better). I'll answer any questions. However, while I do belive in god, I don't always like the way the church is run, how we're not suppose to question god. If you don't know already: My religion (and I think many others) belive that god created Satan as an "angel" but Satan asked to be a powerful a god, so god damned him to hell, however one must ask why did god create Satan in the first place, many older Catholics say your not suppose to question that, but it's human nature to question it, what it really boils down to is: God exists and wants us to do good, and will punish us if we do bad, and the church has to find ways to explain how bad the punishment will be. Well, that's my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

EDIT: Also, I don't want to start any fight but I just wanted to say: It takes more than belife in god to get you into Paradise. You must prove yourself worthy of Christ by doing good during your time on earth however long it may be.

[Juniper]

I don't think that a person can ever prove themselves worthy of God and it's my personal belief that asking Christ for forgiveness when you come to him will clear all your sins, past, present, and future, and thus allow you to enter heaven. But, I also think that most Christians at least want to do good because they have the Spirit of God guiding them

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by pntbll248
I don't think that a person can ever prove themselves worthy of God and it's my personal belief that asking Christ for forgiveness when you come to him will clear all your sins, past, present, and future, and thus allow you to enter heaven. But, I also think that most Christians at least want to do good because they have the Spirit of God guiding them

You mean by just asking him they are forgiven. :confused:

I mean that's ok if it's your belief, I'm just not sure what you said is all.

[Juniper]

What I mean is that you can't earn God's forgiveness, you lost that the first time you sinned. You'll never be worthy of God without Jesus. God's forgiveness is from love, it's a gift that you have to ask for, and be serious about, you can't earn it through good works; nor can you lose it through your lack of good works. That's my opinion at least. I think the good that many christians do isn't what makes them christian, but what comes from being christian. That, of course, doesn't mean that Christian people don't do bad things, they do plenty from what I've seen.

^That viewpoint is considered "Eternal Security", meaning you can screw up as many times as possible and God will still consider you his child if you follow Christ. The other viewpoint is "Works with Faith", which some say that you can lose salvation by sinning or doing bad things.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by pntbll248
What I mean is that you can't earn God's forgiveness, you lost that the first time you sinned. You'll never be worthy of God without Jesus. God's forgiveness is from love, it's a gift that you have to ask for, and be serious about, you can't earn it through good works; nor can you lose it through your lack of good works. That's my opinion at least. I think the good that many christians do isn't what makes them christian, but what comes from being christian. That, of course, doesn't mean that Christian people don't do bad things, they do plenty from what I've seen.

^That viewpoint is considered "Eternal Security", meaning you can screw up as many times as possible and God will still consider you his child if you follow Christ. The other viewpoint is "Works with Faith", which some say that you can lose salvation by sinning or doing bad things.

Oh, ok, it was a mix up, you missunderstood me. I meant, you have to prove that you are worthy to enter heaven not worthy of forgiveness, my religon belives that one must truly be sorry for there sins and must be willing to do a penance for your sins, my religon belives that it takes more than asking for forgiveness to enter heaven.

[unregistered user]

my belief is that once you ask for sins to be forgiven,t hey are, if you sin after that though you must ask forgiveness for it and mean it in your heart. I believe almost what Pnt believes except the future part, I don't believe that future sins are forgiven.

It differs between denominations and people though, and thus we must go by our own conscience on some/most things, but while reading the Bible.

Read and follow the Bible to the best of your ability, when it comes to things that may not be mentioned in the Bible though, or things that may seema bit confusing, you're supposed to decide which is better using your own conscience. Make sur eit's your conscience guiding you though and not just your wants, needs, and desires. There's a big difference =)

[Juniper]

Originally posted by PhantomBPR
Oh, ok, it was a mix up, you missunderstood me. I meant, you have to prove that you are worthy to enter heaven not worthy of forgiveness, my religon belives that one must truly be sorry for there sins and must be willing to do a penance for your sins, my religon belives that it takes more than asking for forgiveness to enter heaven.

That's one of the main differences between Catholocism and Protestant beliefs. In my opinion, I think people argue about it way too much, God said that anyone who came to Christ would be saved; I have faith that God doesn't mind the little stuff and that anyone who has comes to Christ will be saved, regardless of whether they ask for forgiveness recently, when they ask for forgiveness, how they ask for forgiveness, or if they have to do something going along with it. Would God allow his children to be lost to Hell? No, of course He wouldn't. That is why I normally don't argue about this stuff, because I have faith that no matter how it works, God has my back through the whole thing and He's smart enough to make sure I don't just fall away from Him.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by pntbll248
That's one of the main differences between Catholocism and Protestant beliefs. In my opinion, I think people argue about it way too much, God said that anyone who came to Christ would be saved; I have faith that God doesn't mind the little stuff and that anyone who has comes to Christ will be saved, regardless of whether they ask for forgiveness recently, when they ask for forgiveness, how they ask for forgiveness, or if they have to do something going along with it. Would God allow his children to be lost to Hell? No, of course He wouldn't. That is why I normally don't argue about this stuff, because I have faith that no matter how it works, God has my back through the whole thing and He's smart enough to make sure I don't just fall away from Him.

It depends on the sin: if you cuss at your mom, your not going to hell for that, but if you kill your mom, then your pretty damned. :evilgrin:

[Juniper]

All sin, other than not believing, is forgivable; that's one Major theme of the Bible.

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by pntbll248
All sin, other than not believing, is forgivable; that's one Major theme of the Bible.

note that I was speaking about my own religon.

EDIT: While it is still forgiveable, you must truly be sorry, and you'll probably have to do some major penance.

[Juniper]

True, sorry about that

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by pntbll248
True, sorry about that

It's cool. :cheese:

[Fear The Paw]

It's all good

[A-non-a-mus]

I'm non-denominational christian... and proud of it...

[Muruwa]

Wow, so many religion topics. Well, I'm Mormon (I think a few people might remember me mentioning that). As for the forgiveness thing (I feel like I'm a little late, but oh well) I think that you need to ask forgiveness and truly want it and try to do something to try and make amends for what you did. Example, if you stole something from a store, ask forgiveness and then go to the store and offer to pay for the stolen item. You should also try not to repeat that sin. Without this people would take advantage of forgiveness and go out and sin all they want, ask for forgiveness, and then go out and do it again. There must also be special surcumstances (sp?) for those who cannot help but do certain things because of a mental thing (like people who can't help but steal). I don't think I really explained myself very well, but hopefully you guys got what I said.

[Darkslash]

Hey, Ravoc, great topic.

I'm a Christian, Lutheran by convenience.

Here's my basic belief -- Salvation by Jesus' sacrifice, but you had better act it. As in, there still exists a standard of behavior to which one must strive with all their being to achieve, though nobody will achieve it. Only a struggle with all one's effort will constitute "acting" your acceptance of salvation. Who is to judge "full effort"? God, so set the bar high.

[unregistered user]

Thanks Darkslash =)

And my beliefs are pretty close to yours.

[Endra]

From our IM conversation: Why is it sin to get a sex change? Where does the bible state it? Or in what way do you interpret it? It is not homosexuality, nor does it really go against any commandments.

I haven't read the new testament, but you said yourself there is nothing in there about it because they didn't have sex changes back then. So how do you know it is sin?

Thanks for clearing it up buddy *hugs*

[unregistered user]

Originally posted by Aziri
From our IM conversation: Why is it sin to get a sex change? Where does the bible state it? Or in what way do you interpret it? It is not homosexuality, nor does it really go against any commandments.

I haven't read the new testament, but you said yourself there is nothing in there about it because they didn't have sex changes back then. So how do you know it is sin?

Thanks for clearing it up buddy *hugs*

Well I i ii i ii i i i i i i..........teh Phantom has no word at this point.

[Juniper]

I personally doubt you'll get hit with a fireball for it. They didn't have pornography in the bible either, many christians think it's wrong, a few don't, and the majority couldn't care less. I think it's more of a personal issue than a religious one (What feels right to you), you'll still be the same person before God, it's just a matter of what sex you truly want to be.